Logic isn't a part of this drama, I get that. Still, I thought it was supposed to be a revenge/avenge story. But, there isn't anyone who stays on mission.
The GRH redemption arc is entertaining (but, when did she become a computer expert able to manage the whole Medusa thing? oh, wait. forget logic, just go with it.)
Back to my main point, if KKT and MDH are supposed to be the "good guys" exacting avenge/revenge, then why are they maintaining sympathies for any of the villains they should be punishing? They know what these people have done. Backstories don't matter. They are monsters and you can't trust them. Untrustworthy and cruel should erase your sympathies for someone.
Please don't let these dudes end up in romances. If it seriously goes there, I'm done and will feel that I truly wasted my time watching up to this point. The story is patently absurd, but fun for that very reason; until its not. Even an absurd story has to have something for the viewer to hold onto; an anchor in this derailed roller coaster being tossed around by a tornado.
I mean, you could just make every single character be a shitty person and have all the villains prevail, in the end. That's too close to real life though and this was supposed to be absurd. We're here for escapism, not a mirror.
We're on season 2, and we've said b'bye to every emotion in our body....WE JUST LOVING IT...😂❤
They're all sooooo good in their roles! I'm appreciating the high-quality, high-intensity makjang. Its just that the actors are doing so well at being despicable people that I can't take much at a time. My stomach gets all tensed up. lol
Its good to see him standing up for himself. I suspected that there were behind-the-scenes reasons that he was taking on these uncomfortable roles and not getting good acting challenges.
May this turn the tide for him and, if not, may he find a new way in life with grace.
I've made it to ep 14 - clearly, I'm trying. I love the ancient mystery genre. Appreciate many of the actors here. The cases are written with better detail than many in this genre. Zhou Yi Wei is one of my favorite Chinese actors. Its hard for me to turn away and yet, I might, sadly.
Still, I'm a bit bored. It doesn't hold me. I can't binge it. I don't even know if I'll keep coming back to finish it.
Something is missing. There is no interesting dynamic amongst the main characters. We don't get enough background on anyone to really care about them - whether they be main characters, support characters or parties to one of the mysteries.
Do the makers of this not know how to write/direct female characters? Or supporting characters in general? Ma Rong is really poorly written and/or directed. She has no moral code, no boundaries, is childish and can be vicious. Yet, we're supposed to believe that she's a solid deal-maker and would be able to stand toe-to-toe with Ba Rong? Her character is a composite of fragments rather than an integrated whole. Cao is a shell. Is she a worldly traveler who has gained insights about life through her experiences as a musician, likely faced with the vagaries of men? Or a vapid woman chasing a teenage fantasy man? Why is she so lacking in expression or passion? Any time there is a scene with her, I just assume he's going to get information. I skip through it to get back to the case and don't feel I've missed a thing.
Judge Dee is an iconic character. At this point, it would be challenging for anyone to give his stories something refreshing. At minimum, then, they need to give us enthralling on-screen relationship dynamics (both romantic and platonic) or a lot of character development in terms of learning about their pasts and what they are overcoming.
As much as I love detective stories, they can't just be, "here's the details of the case." What makes detectives stories compelling are the human stories underlying them. How do people end up in these tragic circumstances? Why did they make their choices? Anyone can write: "we found a body. We ran around to get clues. This is what happened at the scene of the crime."
I'm disappointed. yet, there is a season 2, so I'm wondering if it gets better. or what I'm missing about this.
The women are women are smart. All the women, not just the leads. Their maids are sharp, too. (It never makes sense to me when they have these costume dramas with smart leads, but their servants, who have been with them, intimately, for (in some cases) their entire lives, are dumb as a post. They would learn alongside the people they work for or they'd be a liability. So, its nice to see that everyone is capable and witty.)
The lead men don't underestimate the women and they aren't over-protective. They are caring, but without diminishing the women. They allow the women to make their own informed decisions about risk-taking. Very refreshing.
Given these things, its not surprising that the relationship development seems to be going at a natural and mutually respectful pace. Fingers crossed, this doesn't dive into cloying immaturity, once the relationships are established.
The dynamic of the 2nd couple. They are the reason to stay, really. I hope we really get to see them go through things together and watch how their relationship develops. The rest of the drama is average - watchable, but nothing out of the ordinary, thus far - but, these two, with the way their story is written are compelling.
Two public officials, who may feel some amount of rivalry and are from different departments, are actually collaborating with some amount of genuine commitment to justice. Its not a world without corruption, obviously, but its rare to have this particular dynamic amongst people working for the palace.
A queen who isn't (so far) an immoral schemer?! Wow. She actually supports accountability for her family members. (I'm still waiting to see who, in the palace, is behind everything, but, thus far, we have a refreshing presentation of a queen with integrity.)
The story is fairly well-written, in terms of these kinds of plots. I'm not finding myself, rolling my eyes at how people get away with absurd things right in front of everyone.
Surface shortcomings: The FL voice. I so, so, so wish that Chinese production companies would stop giving young women the voices of children. Yes, she's supposed to be young and in the midst of being forced to grow up quickly. But, she's not 10. She's come of age. A young woman's natural voice wouldn't sound like that. Its an affect (for most healthy people) if a young adult has such a thin, high-pitched voice. We know that the producers know that women don't have that voice, because other than the FL and her maid, all the other women have voices in the normal range of pitch and tone. I almost couldn't get through the 1st episode. I turned the sound way down and relied on subtitles until I was into the story enough to let it go.
The age and maturity gap between the main leads. She's smart, so there's that. But that doesn't erase the power imbalance between them and the creepiness of a 40-something year old matching up with an 18 year old. You can't have it both ways - give her a baby voice to make her seem so young, but then claim she's mature enough to be someone in his 40s. I like JT, the actor, but he doesn't look young. He looks his age. Which is great. Now, let's have him take roles where his romantic partners are a healthy match and not bordering on pedophilia. Its going to be hard to watch if they have these two doing anything physical. I'll skip that and just watch the 2nd couple who are absolutely fantastic as a pairing.
I've watched most of Jeremy Tsui's dramas (except for Chong Zi) and he has so much potential but seems to struggle…
I find the older sister to be cast perfectly! I wouldn't put her in a different role. In fact, she and the 2nd ML are what's keeping me watching.
I agree with the analysis of JT. He's good enough and been around long enough that he shouldn't be getting stuck in these dramas with mediocre scripts and verging on creepy romantic relationships.
It makes me wonder what's gone down behind the scenes.
Please tell me that the voice of FL changes. Hers and her maid's. Why do they keep doing this? The thin, high-pitched voices for women are so offensive to the ear. I'm not even half way through ep 1 and I can't take it.
I'm only in episode 4. I can enjoy a good makjang now and again. But, it does get frustrating that she never talks. Your husband shows up and you fly into a panic, because you see him on the nanny cam, at the same time. You have an entire car ride to explain. Then, after you get home and he pressures to say something, anything, and you both figure out that something is off and you mention his brother, you don't talk to him about what you've been experiencing? You just low-key threaten him with "you'd better remember what you just said"?
I know she has mental health issues and trust issues. Still, at this point, she's mentioned the brother and they both are sharing a manipulated experience. So, what stops you from giving him as much info as you can?
Also, has she been telling him about the stalker and the attacks? It seems as if he doesn't know.
Also, the stalker hasn't been caught, but she doesn't institute any safety measures?
I know you need a certain amount of superfluous drama in a makjang, but some of this seems like weak writing. And its right up front. They could figure out more plausible ways to build the tension?
Still, the acting is good and I'm definitely gonna keep watching, so I guess its doing its entertainment job adequately. ;-)
shaming ?¿??¿??¿I tried to commit suicide 4other than the love for my mother I would not be alive todayand…
The tricky aspect to this question in a capitalist system is that monied interests are curating the "art" we get to see. In any system with hierarchy - whether that's based on money or gender or political power, etc - art is curated by those in positions of power. Especially art that would reach a critical mass of people and could have a social impact.
China's censorship is, from my point of view, mostly absurd. Deeming that its harmful to show that gay people exist, for instance. Not one single person is harmed because gay people exist. This is some patriarchal (Taoist?) "moralizing" that completely rejects human nature and imposes an erasure through the violent force of the state. Its petty tyranny.
I'm not one for banning things. If we lived in a truly democratic world, where everyone has access to food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, etc - we'd likely see a very different art landscape than what we see now. All we can do now, is speak to whatever moves us in what we are given the opportunity to see. But, we have to know that, if the accessibility wasn't mediated by monied interests, we'd likely see very different stories and styles of storytelling.
It would be an interesting experiment to have unlimited production budgets given to every filmmaker and a free streaming service for them to post their work to. After some number of years (because it would take a while for people to adjust their viewing habits), to see which types of stories people are choosing to watch.
shaming ?¿??¿??¿I tried to commit suicide 4other than the love for my mother I would not be alive todayand…
I can see how, if one is not actively in the throes of considering suicide, this might give one something to consider.
It would be great if recognizing how surviving loved ones would suffer, could truly prevent suicide. However, in all the cases I've known, the people were very aware and still couldn't get out of their darkness. That's part of why I went through anger with them. Especially those who had young children. (I've known at least 3 people in my life - the first was the mother of friends, when I was about 12.) Those whom I knew as an adult, I know were aware, as I had spoken with them. However, the depression and despair are hormonal/chemical things in the brain. And, if their doctors can't find the right balance of medications, they simply can't get out of the destructive cycle. Its beyond painful to witness how it all happens. (In one case, a friend had the same chronic illness that I have. Her psychiatrist gave her a med that is absolutely contra-indicated for our diagnosis. It sent her into a dramatic downward spiral and within 3 days she was gone. It was shocking.)
This is why I way that the messaging here is dangerous. You can't talk someone out of the state of mind that one has to be in in order to actually go through with the act. It requires professional help.
I'm glad that you seem to be in a better place. May that continue to be the case and may grace fill your days, as you carry on.
shaming ?¿??¿??¿I tried to commit suicide 4other than the love for my mother I would not be alive todayand…
Of course, it doesn't have to be perfect.
It is an interesting thought to think of the story as sort of expounding on that one aspect that the survivors process: the anger. I could definitely see an author writing this with that in mind.
My concern is that, in real, S Korea has an extraordinary suicide epidemic. Its an odd time to be broadcasting a story of this nature which only serves to batter those who are in so much despair that they are already fighting the urge. If someone is mired in that place and is exposed to this, the guilt-tripping and shaming directed at them could very possibly tip the scale and push them over the edge. Its not a risk I would want to take.
But, in the same way that they batter those who use drugs, even its once or unintentional, because they refuse to accept what science has shown with very solid data and evidence - that drug abuse is a result of trauma and must be treated as such and not as some "lack of will" or whatnot - they are perfectly ok with driving people to suicide. A very recent case of a very beloved actor is a case in point.
The reason the story bothered me wasn't one of it being an unacceptable piece of art. It was one of concern because it is a piece of a larger, brutal social context which is literally killing people. So, it shocked me that, in their supposed concern for their suicide rate and their dwindling population, that they would find it ok to broadcast this, at this time.
From an artistic standpoint, I can appreciate it. And even more so when I take your idea of it magnifying a single aspect of the grieving process .
I'm on episode 21. Haven't read the books, yet. Have ordered them.
The one thing that keeps coming to my mind is: why would the Trisolarans need anything from the people on Earth? Pan Han is running around trying to collect people who would , what? Welcome them? If they're technological capacity is so far advanced, they wouldn't need to be welcomed. They'd just come and do whatever they want.
As he keeps accusing the Redemptionists of doing useless things, isn't he also doing useless things? Why bother killing people? If what they're doing is useless, anyway, then why care about them?
I think he's just a psychopath using the idea of advanced aliens as an excuse for getting rid of people who don't prioritize his definition of an environmental agenda. An eco-terrorist.
Also, while I get the despair of thinking that our entire species may not exist, at some point, I don't understand why that would lead to suicide? Instead, one could just determine to live out what time they have left in whatever way they would find meaningful or joyous or relaxing or whatever. We all know that we will die at some point, We still live the best we can with whatever unknown amount of time we have.
I have to admit that I still don't quite understand the whole "physics does not exist" part of this. I've always wondered why we thought we had any absolute understanding of anything. Seems to me that there are always possibilities beyond our comprehension and that we only comprehend what we're able. So what if there is more or that our current understanding of physics might be something that is limited by our perception? I'm not really feeling the "horror" of that possibility. Perhaps this is presented better in the novel?
wow, you're really mischaracterizing all of that. I read this before watching and was expecting something really…
what is your problem?
you make very strange leaps in thinking and it lacks any logic.
These are characters. I don't hold any feelings about them at all.
And I wasn't speaking anything about the child kidnapper. I was saying that, for a victim, the duration and age of their kidnapper is not going to have much of an impact on the trauma they would experience upon being abducted.
Being taken by force and held against your will and feeling powerless, regardless of the kidnapper's reasons or circumstances is a traumatic experience. Healthy love does not come from that. These tropes are disturbing. I'm done with this conversation.
The GRH redemption arc is entertaining (but, when did she become a computer expert able to manage the whole Medusa thing? oh, wait. forget logic, just go with it.)
Back to my main point, if KKT and MDH are supposed to be the "good guys" exacting avenge/revenge, then why are they maintaining sympathies for any of the villains they should be punishing? They know what these people have done. Backstories don't matter. They are monsters and you can't trust them. Untrustworthy and cruel should erase your sympathies for someone.
Please don't let these dudes end up in romances. If it seriously goes there, I'm done and will feel that I truly wasted my time watching up to this point. The story is patently absurd, but fun for that very reason; until its not. Even an absurd story has to have something for the viewer to hold onto; an anchor in this derailed roller coaster being tossed around by a tornado.
I mean, you could just make every single character be a shitty person and have all the villains prevail, in the end. That's too close to real life though and this was supposed to be absurd. We're here for escapism, not a mirror.
Definitely gonna see it through.
May this turn the tide for him and, if not, may he find a new way in life with grace.
Still, I'm a bit bored. It doesn't hold me. I can't binge it. I don't even know if I'll keep coming back to finish it.
Something is missing. There is no interesting dynamic amongst the main characters. We don't get enough background on anyone to really care about them - whether they be main characters, support characters or parties to one of the mysteries.
Do the makers of this not know how to write/direct female characters? Or supporting characters in general? Ma Rong is really poorly written and/or directed. She has no moral code, no boundaries, is childish and can be vicious. Yet, we're supposed to believe that she's a solid deal-maker and would be able to stand toe-to-toe with Ba Rong? Her character is a composite of fragments rather than an integrated whole. Cao is a shell. Is she a worldly traveler who has gained insights about life through her experiences as a musician, likely faced with the vagaries of men? Or a vapid woman chasing a teenage fantasy man? Why is she so lacking in expression or passion? Any time there is a scene with her, I just assume he's going to get information. I skip through it to get back to the case and don't feel I've missed a thing.
Judge Dee is an iconic character. At this point, it would be challenging for anyone to give his stories something refreshing. At minimum, then, they need to give us enthralling on-screen relationship dynamics (both romantic and platonic) or a lot of character development in terms of learning about their pasts and what they are overcoming.
As much as I love detective stories, they can't just be, "here's the details of the case." What makes detectives stories compelling are the human stories underlying them. How do people end up in these tragic circumstances? Why did they make their choices? Anyone can write: "we found a body. We ran around to get clues. This is what happened at the scene of the crime."
I'm disappointed. yet, there is a season 2, so I'm wondering if it gets better. or what I'm missing about this.
The women are women are smart. All the women, not just the leads. Their maids are sharp, too. (It never makes sense to me when they have these costume dramas with smart leads, but their servants, who have been with them, intimately, for (in some cases) their entire lives, are dumb as a post. They would learn alongside the people they work for or they'd be a liability. So, its nice to see that everyone is capable and witty.)
The lead men don't underestimate the women and they aren't over-protective. They are caring, but without diminishing the women. They allow the women to make their own informed decisions about risk-taking. Very refreshing.
Given these things, its not surprising that the relationship development seems to be going at a natural and mutually respectful pace. Fingers crossed, this doesn't dive into cloying immaturity, once the relationships are established.
The dynamic of the 2nd couple. They are the reason to stay, really. I hope we really get to see them go through things together and watch how their relationship develops. The rest of the drama is average - watchable, but nothing out of the ordinary, thus far - but, these two, with the way their story is written are compelling.
Two public officials, who may feel some amount of rivalry and are from different departments, are actually collaborating with some amount of genuine commitment to justice. Its not a world without corruption, obviously, but its rare to have this particular dynamic amongst people working for the palace.
A queen who isn't (so far) an immoral schemer?! Wow. She actually supports accountability for her family members. (I'm still waiting to see who, in the palace, is behind everything, but, thus far, we have a refreshing presentation of a queen with integrity.)
The story is fairly well-written, in terms of these kinds of plots. I'm not finding myself, rolling my eyes at how people get away with absurd things right in front of everyone.
Surface shortcomings:
The FL voice. I so, so, so wish that Chinese production companies would stop giving young women the voices of children. Yes, she's supposed to be young and in the midst of being forced to grow up quickly. But, she's not 10. She's come of age. A young woman's natural voice wouldn't sound like that. Its an affect (for most healthy people) if a young adult has such a thin, high-pitched voice. We know that the producers know that women don't have that voice, because other than the FL and her maid, all the other women have voices in the normal range of pitch and tone. I almost couldn't get through the 1st episode. I turned the sound way down and relied on subtitles until I was into the story enough to let it go.
The age and maturity gap between the main leads. She's smart, so there's that. But that doesn't erase the power imbalance between them and the creepiness of a 40-something year old matching up with an 18 year old. You can't have it both ways - give her a baby voice to make her seem so young, but then claim she's mature enough to be someone in his 40s. I like JT, the actor, but he doesn't look young. He looks his age. Which is great. Now, let's have him take roles where his romantic partners are a healthy match and not bordering on pedophilia. Its going to be hard to watch if they have these two doing anything physical. I'll skip that and just watch the 2nd couple who are absolutely fantastic as a pairing.
I agree with the analysis of JT. He's good enough and been around long enough that he shouldn't be getting stuck in these dramas with mediocre scripts and verging on creepy romantic relationships.
It makes me wonder what's gone down behind the scenes.
I know she has mental health issues and trust issues. Still, at this point, she's mentioned the brother and they both are sharing a manipulated experience. So, what stops you from giving him as much info as you can?
Also, has she been telling him about the stalker and the attacks? It seems as if he doesn't know.
Also, the stalker hasn't been caught, but she doesn't institute any safety measures?
I know you need a certain amount of superfluous drama in a makjang, but some of this seems like weak writing. And its right up front. They could figure out more plausible ways to build the tension?
Still, the acting is good and I'm definitely gonna keep watching, so I guess its doing its entertainment job adequately. ;-)
China's censorship is, from my point of view, mostly absurd. Deeming that its harmful to show that gay people exist, for instance. Not one single person is harmed because gay people exist. This is some patriarchal (Taoist?) "moralizing" that completely rejects human nature and imposes an erasure through the violent force of the state. Its petty tyranny.
I'm not one for banning things. If we lived in a truly democratic world, where everyone has access to food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, etc - we'd likely see a very different art landscape than what we see now. All we can do now, is speak to whatever moves us in what we are given the opportunity to see. But, we have to know that, if the accessibility wasn't mediated by monied interests, we'd likely see very different stories and styles of storytelling.
It would be an interesting experiment to have unlimited production budgets given to every filmmaker and a free streaming service for them to post their work to. After some number of years (because it would take a while for people to adjust their viewing habits), to see which types of stories people are choosing to watch.
It would be great if recognizing how surviving loved ones would suffer, could truly prevent suicide. However, in all the cases I've known, the people were very aware and still couldn't get out of their darkness. That's part of why I went through anger with them. Especially those who had young children. (I've known at least 3 people in my life - the first was the mother of friends, when I was about 12.) Those whom I knew as an adult, I know were aware, as I had spoken with them. However, the depression and despair are hormonal/chemical things in the brain. And, if their doctors can't find the right balance of medications, they simply can't get out of the destructive cycle. Its beyond painful to witness how it all happens. (In one case, a friend had the same chronic illness that I have. Her psychiatrist gave her a med that is absolutely contra-indicated for our diagnosis. It sent her into a dramatic downward spiral and within 3 days she was gone. It was shocking.)
This is why I way that the messaging here is dangerous. You can't talk someone out of the state of mind that one has to be in in order to actually go through with the act. It requires professional help.
I'm glad that you seem to be in a better place. May that continue to be the case and may grace fill your days, as you carry on.
It is an interesting thought to think of the story as sort of expounding on that one aspect that the survivors process: the anger. I could definitely see an author writing this with that in mind.
My concern is that, in real, S Korea has an extraordinary suicide epidemic. Its an odd time to be broadcasting a story of this nature which only serves to batter those who are in so much despair that they are already fighting the urge. If someone is mired in that place and is exposed to this, the guilt-tripping and shaming directed at them could very possibly tip the scale and push them over the edge. Its not a risk I would want to take.
But, in the same way that they batter those who use drugs, even its once or unintentional, because they refuse to accept what science has shown with very solid data and evidence - that drug abuse is a result of trauma and must be treated as such and not as some "lack of will" or whatnot - they are perfectly ok with driving people to suicide. A very recent case of a very beloved actor is a case in point.
The reason the story bothered me wasn't one of it being an unacceptable piece of art. It was one of concern because it is a piece of a larger, brutal social context which is literally killing people. So, it shocked me that, in their supposed concern for their suicide rate and their dwindling population, that they would find it ok to broadcast this, at this time.
From an artistic standpoint, I can appreciate it. And even more so when I take your idea of it magnifying a single aspect of the grieving process .
The one thing that keeps coming to my mind is: why would the Trisolarans need anything from the people on Earth? Pan Han is running around trying to collect people who would , what? Welcome them? If they're technological capacity is so far advanced, they wouldn't need to be welcomed. They'd just come and do whatever they want.
As he keeps accusing the Redemptionists of doing useless things, isn't he also doing useless things? Why bother killing people? If what they're doing is useless, anyway, then why care about them?
I think he's just a psychopath using the idea of advanced aliens as an excuse for getting rid of people who don't prioritize his definition of an environmental agenda. An eco-terrorist.
Also, while I get the despair of thinking that our entire species may not exist, at some point, I don't understand why that would lead to suicide? Instead, one could just determine to live out what time they have left in whatever way they would find meaningful or joyous or relaxing or whatever. We all know that we will die at some point, We still live the best we can with whatever unknown amount of time we have.
I have to admit that I still don't quite understand the whole "physics does not exist" part of this. I've always wondered why we thought we had any absolute understanding of anything. Seems to me that there are always possibilities beyond our comprehension and that we only comprehend what we're able. So what if there is more or that our current understanding of physics might be something that is limited by our perception? I'm not really feeling the "horror" of that possibility. Perhaps this is presented better in the novel?
you make very strange leaps in thinking and it lacks any logic.
These are characters. I don't hold any feelings about them at all.
And I wasn't speaking anything about the child kidnapper. I was saying that, for a victim, the duration and age of their kidnapper is not going to have much of an impact on the trauma they would experience upon being abducted.
Being taken by force and held against your will and feeling powerless, regardless of the kidnapper's reasons or circumstances is a traumatic experience. Healthy love does not come from that. These tropes are disturbing.
I'm done with this conversation.
When did I say "arrest that child"?
What I was referring to was that the person being kidnapped would experience it as a trauma.
Bye, now.