lilili

Two people I know (one of them is one of my podcast partners) haaaaaated Korean BoF with a burning passion but they are both enjoying F4T. One of them even said Thank you Thailand for what you've done.

So there's a lot of complex reasons why women engage with regressive, problematic narratives. This story holds real power because it's kind of a myth that deals with women's sexuality in the face of a violent and potentially life threatening patriarchy. How do women come to terms emotionally and psychologically with the fact that the men they desire are also the mostly likely people to assault and kill them?

I would not assume that women are uncritically swallowing this narrative. I think a lot of women approach this story with ambivalence and are not simply swooning over the cute boys. There's an emotional weight to the story that exists beyond the ridiculous elements like the OTT clothes and makjang plot.

Women who are living in situations where they have little agency and control over their lives might find this narrative empowering in some ways because it's a way for them to own and exercise their sexual desire even in the context of a patriarchy they can never hope to escape.

Is this a healthy story? No but it's reflecting the harsh realities around women's intimate relationships. Transitioning from a girl to a woman involves pain and danger and literally blood. There are endless myths around this, but two examples: Red Riding Hood (the red symbolizing menstruation, the journey through the woods symbolizing the journey to womanhood, the wolf symbolizing potentially annihilating sexual desire) and Beauty and the Beast (can you love this creature even though he's the biggest threat to your existence?)

What's been powerful for me about the Thai version is that the makers ***understand the story they are telling *** and are approaching it thoughtfully and with respect for the audience of young women. They can't deproblematize the story because the problematic elements are literally the heart of the narrative and if you take them out it's not the same story anymore (hello Meteor Garden 2018). But they can call out the problematic elements within the context of the narrative, they can make the characters more complex, they can add things like the honey badger that are commenting on the very dark and scary themes that thread the story. It's so impressive.

I love this whole comment and are you on Twitter or any other platform? Because I will follow you. ETA: I reread and thought it sounded a tad creepy as if I'd stalk you and all I really mean is if you're dropping opinions elsewhere I'd like to read because you're on point! 😅

Hahaha I already saw that and the timing of Hana drugging Thyme with the narrative about cobra venom took. me. out.

The director of F4T posted on Twitter about the significance of the honey badger and Gorya's pinprick and he even translated it into English for foreign viewers, bless him. It's pretty deep! https://twitter.com/daebakpodcast1/status/1488218964652036096

The director tweeted that Thyme is a Gemini and Gorya is a Virgo which would fit with what you're saying about personalities.

Team Thyme, I'm > 30 and I think you're on to something with the age thing from what I've seen.

FWIW, this is the only version where I'm wholeheartedly team Male Lead. I had second lead syndrome so bad with the Korean version it's not even funny. I did love Jerry Yan's performance in MG 2001 but he was so violent I couldn't really ship him with the FL.

It won't be until the last week of Feb because we're having trouble getting everyone's schedule together. But we'll be about halfway through the show at that point so we'll have lots to talk about!

But the shirt is also red which is the color Thyme wears whenever he's expressing love for Gorya (the family dinner scene and the scene where he rescues her from bullies) so it's showing her mixed emotions.

Amazingly she loves F4T which really speaks to what an incredible job the writers are doing with this adaptation.

We did a podcast episode on Korean Boys Over Flowers that is our most popular by a mile (half our listens are from that one episode and that was true before F4T dropped). And in that episode we got deep into how the story is about how women who desire men reconcile that desire with the fact that the man they love is also the most likely to assault and/or kill them. I think you're right that it's a bit sublimated in this version because they are working hard on Thyme's redemption arc but it's still very much present. It's the same reason Twilight was such a massive hit despite being soul crushingly awful in some ways.

The understanding I got from the monologue is that Mira didn't break up with him, he left because he realized he couldn't be part of her world or help her in any way. So she didn't reject him, he stepped aside and made room for the man who could be fully a part of her future. Which means Mira stays gold and Ren becomes even more tragic, sob.

Your whole comment is brilliant but pulling out a couple of points:

"She will be the ‘collateral damage’ if it all goes wrong, not him" <<< Did you notice in the first scene the mother (and Tia!) refer to Gorya as collateral? It's chilling. She's right to be hesitant.

"Accepting that he’s not just bothering her, that she actually does like him, would imply accepting those parts within her that want him despite the danger he poses to her, and she’s still in denial. This is all very coming of age, sexual awakening, and I love it." <<< I love it too, so much. This has always been the core of the story.

I had the same question but someone pointed out to me that when she's looking for Ren she goes to the rooftop and when she was in the cafeteria area for the first time it was with Thyme.

One of my podcast partners just said this and I think she nailed it: If the badger is Thyme, it's showing us that even though he's trying to be softer, he's still got an edge that wounds her.

I rewatched the episode before reading your comment and that's when I noticed the line about her saying she wants to go on the double date and that does seem to be less pressure than an "F4 date" so I'm coming around on that scene.

You are right about the physical threat and I've always said that a huge part of HYD is women grappling with the reality of male violence. Like how do you deal with being a woman who loves and sexually desires men and yet the person you love is the person most likely to assault and kill you (statistically speaking). That's been backgrounded a bit in F4T until this latest episode. I do not blame Gorya for being conflicted, not one bit. Her monologue at the zoo cut with scenes from the brutal Ep 1 bullying is an incredible illustration of why.

But I'm still struggling with the pinprick and blood and exactly what's being communicated there.

Question: What do you think was the significance of Gorya pricking herself and drawing blood when she was punching the plushie that Thyme bought for her at the zoo? I wasn't quite sure what the show was trying to say there.

BTW, my podcast partner thinks the plushie is a honey badger and if that isn't the same energy as Thyme omg

I don't want to respond to every comment you've made, just saying I agree with everything you're saying

How very dare you. Mismatched prints, fanny packs and khakis are the height of fashion (says Thyme)