lilili

There are screen capture programs that give you high quality screen grabs and for F4 Thailand you can download the episodes since they are on YouTube. I record video clips all the time but don't do edits because it's incredibly detailed, persnickety work with choosing clips, chopping them up to time to music beats, etc. I don't have the patience or talent to deal.

Welcome to the club! This thing has eaten my brain and I can't think about anything else. If it helps, the discussions here have been fantastic and it's fun to dissect the episodes one at a time.

The video has the lyrics, very similar to what you posted but not exactly the same. And yes you are right, it's about the obstacles Gorya has to overcome, not romantic! https://youtu.be/TSTe6p2a7Wk

For what it's worth I did not interpret it as romantic either the first time I saw the scene. But I rewatched and I can see how some people would interpret it that way..

What I'm struck by is that Thyme repeatedly apologized to Gorya after Hana got her beaten but didn't apologize for the raised fist so I'm not 100% sure what's going on there. He did renounce violence at the end so there is that.

@MarieAli wrote this comment analyzing the scene and I thought it was incredible and explained it so well: https://mydramalist.com/50007-boys-over-flowers#comment-8656637

Someone on Twitter said this and I can't stop thinking about it: "whereas BoF is a hot toxic misogynist mess, I'd classify F4 (from what I have seen) as a dark romance aware of itself actually being a dark romance with hugely problematic characters."

Ren is way more edgy/trollish/shady than any other version of the SML and I love him for it. Dew is playing it well.

Also “Paramaanantra” is a compound of the word “parama” (supreme or highest) and “anantra” (infinite or without end). Those are the meanings in Sanskrit, but probably similar in Thai too. So his family name means infinitely superior. And Thyme (tham in Thai) means prestige.

Hey just wanted to let you know I appreciated your POV and your critique of how they handled the narrative and balanced out the comedy moments with the incredibly serious elements of the story is very valid. I wanted to give a bit of advice which is in the future if you can use paragraph breaks in your response it would be easier to read and digest. You have a lot of good insights but it's hard to take in when it's a wall of text.

I agree with you. I think the episode should've handled the aftermath better and acknowledge that's what happened.

I think the writers having Gorya beat up Tesla and then strike Thyme, Kavin and MJ at the end was supposed to be a sign that she had seen Thyme at his worst and wasn't afraid of him, and therefore she's seized her power in that episode. This is also indicated by her turning away from the safe choice of Ren to the dangerous choice of Thyme. She's clear sighted about the threat she's walking into.

Now is this what you should do in real life? Hell no, not at all. But this is an allegory for what all women have to grapple with when they desire men. Statistically speaking, your male intimate partner is also the person most likely to harm or kill you. In a sane world all women would go live on an island together far away from men. And yet we continue to desire them, marry them, make babies with them. That's the reality this story is grappling with and that's what makes it simultaneously riveting and disturbing.

I second this, that comment was incredible

I agree with your take. >> A profound & powerful realization. The kind that can only be made when you're pushed to the absolute brink. Which he was, by the storytellers.

Re: the perception of self-efficacy--that comes when he tries to step aside for Ren. Also when Ren tells him after the fight not to regress to old Thyme. Something that hasn't been discussed is that it's not just Gorya who is helping with his change, it's all of the F4 and they are also on a redemption journey themselves. Ren is a bit ahead of everyone else because of his heartbreak with Mira.

It's waaaayyy worse in Meteor Garden (both versions) . Still horrible though, like this scene being better is just a hair above the basement of hell.

I agree that he's not irredeemable but it's not what he does in this scene that makes me think so. It's what he does at the very end when he closes the stadium and renounces the red cards and violence. Let's hope he sticks with it.

So I see people saying that That Scene proves that Thyme would never hurt Gorya but I interpret it differently. I think Thyme IS capable of hurting Gorya and he knows it. He's able to stop himself in that scene but next time? Maybe not. It's the horror of understanding where things will lead that leads to the change. I think the message to take away is not omg he loves her so much he could never hurt her. No! He is 100% capable of hurting her and is desperately trying to get off that road, hence denouncing violence at the end.

I have a slightly different interpretation of that scene. I think Thyme IS capable of hurting Gorya and he knows it. He's able to stop himself in that scene but next time? Maybe not. It's the horror of understanding where things will lead if he doesn't stop himself that leads to the change. I think the message to take away is not omg he loves her so much he could never hurt her. No! He is 100% capable of hurting her and is desperately trying to get off that road, hence denouncing violence at the end.

Meteor Garden 2001 is set at a university

Your comment literally gave me chills, esp that last part about the war to take his rightful place as King. And it's not just taking his place as King but being the righteous ruler, the person who justly wields his power and doesn't abuse others. He is in a fight with his mother for his own humanity and it's compelling. I've never been invested in the ML's journey in any other version but in this one I am 100% invested in this character and I want to see him succeed.

I think it helps if you see the story as a metaphor for all women who are attracted to and want to partner with men. Because the reality is that it's kind of crazy that any woman would want to be with a man given the threat that men present to them. The power of the story is that the woman willingly chooses to engage with the beast on her own terms. It's also about women embracing the beast inside themselves and claiming their own power. So no, it's not a story about a woman who submits to a violent man or changes that man through her love. It's about a woman who is clear sighted about what she's walking into and chooses to do it anyway. It's about a woman fully owning her own desire.

I love this comment. Everything is on point. I loved this episode and I think the writers very deliberately wanted you to see Thyme almost completely out of control and what he could be capable of doing if he regresses. Its ugly on purpose.

"Nonetheless everyone is entitled their own opinion and of course it will differ depending on your own experiences or trauma. That’s valid." << This too. I'm angry at people I see arguing online with women who clearly have trauma histories.

I'm conflicted because I understand why people are so upset about that opening scene. It was freakin' ugly and traumatizing. But I appreciate that the makers were like we are not going to candy coat this dude and what's going on here. He is dangerous. When they had the honey badger in the previous episode it was a warning even though the stuffed animal is cute, the animal it represents is the most dangerous animal on earth. Also then Gorya flashed back to Thyme assaulting a student in the first episode. They were preparing us for what was coming.

I'm glad we had the explicit repudiation of violence at the end and Thyme blocking the entrance to the stadium. We absolutely needed that. Also FWIW I don't see the drama saying Gorya has to change Thyme. Gorya is a mirror for Thyme showing him his worst self and he hates what he sees reflected there. That's what's motivating him to change. She isn't changing him. He is the one who has to do the work.