bideshi

Thanks. Yes, I think she's rather unhinged and I see that she cuts off any discussion IN ALL CAPS when her ideas get challenged rather than try to explain/explore. I won't let it bother me, but now I know it's pointless to try to engage with her in the future. (I don't know if she's male or female, but I'm going to guess female because her favorite topic seems to be being offended by sexism by/towards female characters.)

Yes, one of the main reasons why I enjoy these weekend dramas and makjangs--even though there's rarely anything new under the sun--is to see the main leads overcome obstacles (even when the obstacles are frustratingly themselves) and find happiness, and to see the villains get their just desserts. And the happy ending wouldn't be as satisfying without the long road to get there. For me, these dramas are like modern day fairy tales, and I guess it meets a need in me for escapism and happy endings.

You said "they should get together in the middle, get mad at each other, figure out that their love is strong and get back together" and "getting together at ep49 is trash". First, I'm not sure why you think MJ and GR will wait until ep49 to get together. Also, almost all K-drama main couples have that arc: get together, fight through outside pressures and misunderstandings and temporary breakups, and then get back together ultimately in marriage. They only differ slightly in timeline and the types/degrees of obstacles. So I don't think Love on the Menu is doing anything really different, and so their confession to other people at the end of ep8 didn't strike me as "dragging the plot".

No need to reply.

Well, the ML/FL already did that several episodes ago and were together long enough to have produced a son. So I'm not sure what the problem is then. Did you want them to never break up once they got together? Why can't breaking up--and maybe even date other people--be a part of the storyline of their love (which I'm sure will end with their marriage).

Sure. That's another way to do it, another type of story--for the main couple to spend half the drama fighting for and keeping the relationship/marriage. But the getting together or marriage of the main couple is perhaps the key plot in almost all weekend dramas, and for good reason: because it is a satisfying resolution to all the obstacles that they faced. So if that's going to come half-way through the drama, then you need to make sure that there is another conflict/tension that can be sustained for the whole second half. But apparently that kind of drama is hard to make (or the audience doesn't want/like that kind of story) because it may have never been done in K-dramaland.

I think you either have the ML/FL getting together at the end story, or you have the ML/FL start as a married couple and face challenges/temptations/pressures story (as in the recent "The Husband"). But I think it's hard to do a ML/FL get together in the middle story. Again, I'm not saying that it can't or shouldn't be done. Maybe it's a challenge that some writer/director should take on instead of relying on the usual getting together in ep49 plot, but I wouldn't hold my breath: people have loved stories like Cinderella and Snow White and The Princess Bride, and there's a reason why those stories don't continue with what those marriages looked like in daily life.

Of course. You really want the ML/FL getting together in the first 10 episodes? All weekend dramas/makjangs leave the ML/FL getting together until the last few episodes, just as they leave the satisfying justice being served to the end. That's why those events are called climaxes, which require a fairly long buildup. That's true not just of K-dramas, but most works of fiction, be it a novel or an opera.

Of course, the way they drag it out or build the tension can be criticized for being dumb and unbelievable, but to answer your question, yes, it must be done.

Sounds good. We can agree to disagree. For your entertainment, check out this comedian's take on American's use of "shit" that shows how difficult it is for foreigners to use the word naturally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifNEgwGACEQ

If I open my mind to your claim that SR is a great unique rebel character and that a part of her "sophistication" is her random use of "shit", will you open your mind to my claim that the show's creators made a mistake because they don't know that SR is using "shit" unnaturally?

I was born in Korea, but grew up in the States since age 9, currently 57, and went through college and grad school in the US. No one I've ever met uses "shit" the way SR does; only someone who hasn't learned to speak English naturally would use it like SR. The problem for me isn't that she says it often, but that she often says it when it doesn't sound natural to (where some other word/expression would be more appropriate--e.g. "What the hell?" or "The hell?" "Seriously?!?" "Are you kidding me?!?") I can appreciate that the writers are trying to make SR interesting/unique with this verbal tic, but it tells me that the writers don't know what natural English sounds like. Actually, it's a testament to the quality of K-dramas that they have gained popularity in the US despite the unnatural English in the script and in the subtitles.

My linguistic observation has nothing to do "letting her be" or "allowing something new," as if I have any power to change anything about the show. I take every character the way they're presented and critique/praise them on their believability, depth and development. And I don't agree that someone as smart/sophisticated as you think she is would misuse "shit" so often. As I've said, it's a misstep on the part of the show's creators. They might have created a unique character, but she doesn't ring true to me.

And other than her overuse of English in general when Korean words would do just fine (e.g. "No" "Okay"), I don't think she is "totally unique" in the history of K-dramas. I don't think a bratty, domineering, pretty, young daughter of a rich business family who is in conflict with her love interest (and with perhaps a redemption arc) is breaking the mold in any serious way.

We can agree to disagree, but I don't think saying "shit" any time she's annoyed about something (which is about every 20 seconds) is a natural use of English. She uses it to express too many different things that aren't really covered by "shit." I can't remember if SR was supposed to have studied in the US, but if she did, she did not learn to express English naturally. Yes, it makes her unique and memorable, but to me it makes her rich, sophisticated, privileged persona less believable--though it does enhance her spoiled brat image since she somehow has never been corrected /called out about using the word unnaturally.

Having said all that, I do like SR as a character and hope that we'll see some neat changes in her going forward. But I blame the writers for this misstep and feel sorry for the actress who has to say it over and over again probably without knowing that it doesn't sound like a believable use of English.

True, but did they have to choose to express in such an odd, annoying way? I think it's pretty clear that they're very different even without it.

Enjoying the show well enough, but Seorin's constant use of "shit" is getting very, very old. I guess it's her verbal tick or whatever, but it's used so unnaturally that it's super annoying. I can't think of another example of such a misuse/overuse of an English word in a K-drama.

I'm assuming you're referring to Ms. Song? It doesn't fit LPJ's character that he ever loved her, that he lived with this narcissistic psycho for years. I refuse to believe that she just suddenly/recently turned into an evil psycho. I realize that for the sake of the storyline that they need a history together, but I can't believe that he wouldn't have seen her true nature or that having seen it he wouldn't have rejected her.

I agree, especially that a mother and daughter marrying two brothers is somehow a scandal that can ruin doctors and hospitals. But we can't watch daily dramas like this expecting everything to make sense or people to do smart, reasonable things. The best dramas are entertaining and even moving enough to overcome things that don't make sense. Honestly, I don't think Marie+3 Daddies is one of those really good dramas, but it has enough good characters that I'm rooting for that I'm still watching. "A Graceful Liar" was one that I dropped because I really couldn't find any redeeming qualities.

True! I wrote about the same kind of toxic femininity found in "The First Man". It must drive feminists crazy to see these women lying/manipulating/scheming/fighting with each other over a man. It'd at least be a bit more interesting if the goal was something other than man. But this kind of women-being-terrible-and-petty-to-each-other plot in Kdramas is tiresome. I don't mind evil women characters, but make them more interesting and less cartoon-like.

You're probably right about the two brothers not being blood-related. But even if they were, so what. It doesn't make sense that in the 21st century somehow people still think that these two relationships will ruin the hospital's reputation, doctors' reputations/careers, etc., or that this "secret" can be used as a threat. Unusual, yes. Potentially awkward at first, yes. But nothing at all immoral or scandalous about these two couples loving one another, so they just need to continue to believe that and declare that.

Extreme self-centeredness and sense of entitlement, and a complete lack of humility, self-awareness and shame. She's on the psychopath/sociopath spectrum for sure. She's the kind of person who can justify all her evil deeds because it's done out of love for her son--as if giving him money/power is somehow the most loving thing a mother can do for her child.

I think it's because of the FIFA U-23 match between Korea and Japan.

I think the only way to enjoy these makjang dramas is to watch them somewhat mindlessly and remember that these aren't works of art but mere entertainment.

Yes, Hwa Yeong is so over the top evil. One of the frustrations of watching a character like her is that often so many of the other characters are too dumb/blind to recognize her nature.

It's impossible to watch K-dramas like this (especially these makjang dramas) without noticing that often the main engine driving the plot is the toxicity of the female characters. To be sure, there's always the good-hearted woman who will get justice at the end, but her victory only comes after overcoming the pettiness, schemes, lies, manipulations, greed, materialism and violence of many toxic women. Of course, there's no dearth of toxic masculinity either in K-dramas, but that's usually found in the thugs, criminals, and the greedy and power-hungry businessmen/politicians. But the interpersonal type of petty yet destructive behavior shown more often by the female characters seems no less toxic.

Is it just me, or does The First Man have more than its share of such toxic femininity? Chae Hwa Yeong, Seorin the bad twin, Jin Hong Ju and her mother, and to an extent Jang Mi's sister, too--there's really no female character with any positive qualities besides Jang Mi. I can enjoy a makjang probably more than most people, but even for me the constant toxicity is almost too much. (And it doesn't help that most of the male characters seem weak, indecive, emasulated or buffoons. So far, Jun Ho the chef is the most interesting male character, so I'm interestes in how he develops in his career and love life.) I wish there could be another female character (or two) who can bring a bit of balance, who could be a good friend/support for Jang Mi.