Tine's treatment of Green in Episode one (Spoilers)

I had written these in comments, but someone suggested making a discussion topic, so why not :) 

There's some dubious behaviour in the first episode that people are discussing. I think it's always worth considering how the narrative frames bad behaviour... stories would be boring if no one did anything wrong, but on the other hand, we don't necessarily want to root for characters doing terrible things.

The episode framed the behaviour in terms of "make bad choices and fail," which for me is a good frame for watching characters I like do the wrong thing. Spoilers to follow:

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There was a lot of really tight character introduction in this episode, not just with Tine, but with his friend group. They seem so good-natured that it was a little shocking when we got to the scene where they'd decided to drug Green, and for some people (understandably) that was a step to far.

Although I'm on the side of people who didn't mind it, I don't think "it's comedy not real" is the right answer for why some people are okay with it. I get why it feels that way, but it's actually done through some careful attention to story-telling, action-consequence structures and character development.

So, I've written out why I think it doesn't cross the boundaries that many people have (including my own):

a) Green is basically a stalker, and Tine exhausts all the normal and polite ways of rejecting him before making any of these decisions (and we have the very reasonable tone-setting scene where his friends challenge him on whether he's overreacting because of Green being a guy, and Tine saying just because he doesn't have a problem with gay guys it doesn't mean he wants to date one). This all establishes a situation that none of them know how to solve.

b) For the "date" where they are "attacked", first it's very obvious that the guys are not going to actually attack them. Still, they are trying to scare Green. But notice what they say: "we hate people in love." It's an anti-couple threat, not a homophobic one. They want Green to leave Tine alone, but they have no interest in shaming him.

c) As @reefpicker points out in a thread below, the gay guy won! This is a serious trope-reversal, because we have this over-the-top "tootsie" type who turns out to be strong and protective. Without a threat, Green's character doesn't get to show that side. We also get the chance to like Green a little, because after he protectively brings Tine home, he teases him about staying in the room to take care of him, but then FINALLY TAKES NO FOR AN ANSWER, and leaves. It gives some hope that maybe at some point, Green will start to understand boundaries and respect them.

d) The fake girlfriend ploy isn't all that bad. Again we see that Tine only wants Green to stop pursuing him when he goes and talks to him, he doesn't want to hurt Green. Green's turn around ("you just wanted to test my love for you") is delusional, and in a character less comedic than Green, terrifying. Seriously, google "woman killed after rejecting man" if you want to know why I'm sympathetic to Tine's feeling of being trapped. My point being that what Green is doing is also played for humour, but if it were real life, his behaviour represents something at least as dangerous and morally wrong as what Tine and his friends are doing.

c) Drugging Green is a straight-up bad idea. Tine knows it. We can see he feels conflicted. The story structure follows through on "drugging is a bad idea" by having it go wrong. Instead of "drug a stalker, solve your problem," you get "do a stupid thing and fail"... which is actually the result of all of the stupid things he's done so far.

This matters in terms of storytelling because the story is structured such that his idea is clearly a bad idea (unlike, say, when Tarn assaults Type in their shared bathroom, which leads to a romantic relationship: Tarn never feels conflicted, there's no narrative acknowledgement of wrong doing, and consequences of his actions suggest that if someone doesn't like you but you force them to orgasm, you can make them love you). So, it's not that it's comedy and fiction so it doesn't matter, but that the story itself doesn't condone the bad actions of the characters.

d) The drugging was borderline for me, for sure. I thought, though, that the story did a good enough job of letting us know what the 4 friends were like that I was very sure if they had successfully drugged Green, they wouldn't have hurt him.

Also, having characters make bad choices in the *first* episode sets them up for character growth, so the fact that this was a beginning, and that none of the bad ideas led to desired outcomes lets me trust/hope (about 60/40 at this point) that the writers have clear boundaries and will work the story within them.

I think what the OP is saying is that not only is Tine seems conflicted about the whole thing WHILE IT IS HAPPENING (Tharn didn't seem conflicted at the moment things happened) but also the way the show's narrative unfolds, it seems that at every corner we are remained that what Tine and Green are doing to each other is not OK.

Its more than just a matter of a character saying he is sorry. Here we get to see conflicting emotions. I assume this is because Tine is a closeted gay person and he feels a much deeper level of empathy than he would otherwise. Deep down he understand where Green is coming from and deep down Green knows that Tine does not like him.

This is why I most say, this show is brilliant. It is a little gem.

 reefpicker:

I think what the OP is saying is that not only is Tine seems conflicted about the whole thing WHILE IT IS HAPPENING (Tharn didn't seem conflicted at the moment things happened) but also the way the show's narrative unfolds, it seems that at every corner we are remained that what Tine and Green are doing to each other is not OK.

Its more than just a matter of a character saying he is sorry. Here we get to see conflicting emotions. I assume this is because Tine is a closeted gay person and he feels a much deeper level of empathy than he would otherwise. Deep down he understand where Green is coming from and deep down Green knows that Tine does not like him.

This is why I most say, this show is brilliant. It is a little gem.

Oh, I understand now. My bad...Thanks for clarifying. 

Then I have to agree with you both completely.  The writers seem to know what they want their story to say. They have made it clear from the start that Tine is not OK with using underhanded means of discouraging Green. He must feel there is no other way. If you notice, except for those two instances, Tine's not even being impolite or using bad language. 

Tine also accepts Green's gifts as he seems to appreciate the effort Green is putting into it and doesn't want to hurt his feelings. Maybe it'd have been better if he had refused the gifts...at the start. 

Would love to see Green's side of things. How he fell for Tine and why he likes him so much.

dee100,

It would be great if we get a special episode from Green's perspective!

You have some interesting points that add to this topic. Tine hasn't outright rejected anything given to him by Green and he hasn't used foul language, which we know he can use as he did with Sarawat, calling him a word I can't use here.... :P

I think Tine hasn't been cruel to Green while Green hasn't cross any major line with Tine. That Green is behaving inappropriately we should not forget about, but he hasn't cross from obsession to creepy in my view. He is just a young gay man infatuated.

We should also add that the fact that Green felt confident enough to write Tine that letter says a lot about his character. His character has some great attributes too and is not full of flaws and confidence is one of those positive attributes.

I'm real ass late to this topic, but I got to mention that there's honestly nothing wrong with Tine's behaviour towards Green (in my opinion). As OP said, Green is a creepy ass stalker. 

1) you have to consider the goal of the drugging. The plan was to drug Green to get rid of him right? Or did I miss something?
Drugging drinks is commonly used as a goal for rape, which is why ppl have something against drugging drinks, but that has nothing to do with Tine's actions (if I didn't overlook any other intentions that is). If you think that drugging Green is a step too far, then you should honestly make better use of your ratio.
It is not a good example for the audience, but that's another story.

2) Also, Green "winning" bc Tine ends up drinking the drugged drink is something that adds to the comedy, it's not meant to be a reflection on what a bad choice it is to drug someone.

3) Besides that, I disagree with the  other "gay guy won" things in point c writtin in the OP.  Green winning the fight is from my point of view, clearly also something to add to the comedy. It also adds to Green's toxic behaviour, as Tine is once again unable to break free from Green. It was NOT used to break the stereotype.
Also, just imagine this guy stalking you and overstepping the boundaries all the time, but then he finally leaves you alone and someone tells you "at least he finally took no for an answer". I would be hella mad. Just bc he finally did something good, doesn't mean the other things he did should be disregarded. Just imagine Tine as a girl and Green as a masculine guy and you'll see what I mean.

3) I have something against Green's whole character in general. He is that gay stereotype. Yknow, like "that creepy feminine gay guy who hit on me, and now he won't leave me alone".
His actions are just completely wrong. But his stereotypical gay characteristics is something I have nothing against, since there are gays like that and it's good that they get representation too, but in this case those characteristics are clearly used in a mocking way.

And yes homophobia is also possible with a gay series. If I look at the other gay/bi characters, I can see that they're rly not like the gays around me irl at all. OFCOURSE there are gay guys like them (with stereotypical straight characteristics) and YES they should get representation too to get rid of the normal gay stereotypes (characteristics like Green). However, if you look the gay characters in this series and then at the "villian", Green, you can see that the makers of this series are clearly disregarding and mocking the stereotypical gay people, while making their gay MCs look "straight" to get more attention from the female audience. This happens a lot.

this isn't related to this thread per se, (warning spoiler ahead) but does this mean that Green was dating P'Dim the  whole time he was stalking Tine?? 

I felt like the entire situation with Green was dealt with very bad. I understand they added him in for the sake of the plot, but they handled it negatively. From the start, he never sat Green down and seriously told him that he did not want to be together. Instead, it felt like Tine led him on with his behavior. It felt more like he was keeping him as a back-up plan, rather than rejecting him. Also, although the show portrayed the plans the friends made as comedic, they were actually very dangerous and hurtful plans like drugging him or faking a relationship. Throughout the story, it felt like his friend group continued to make bad decisions and blindly follow whatever Tine said. I did love their characters but I felt like the writers should've directed those scenes more positively. Even in the end the situation with Green wasn't handled well. He told Tine he had been hurt by his partner and then that was never brought up again despite being alarming.