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Your wildest theories about AoS(part 2)

Kim Hee Soo

I am with mellody on the no physical romance bit but more because:
a. Naksu is a cold assassin - she is not used to being mushy, romantic. Notice how she hates Barbie Jin's clingy attitude. She is used to being alone, she hates to be dependent or feel dependent on someone.

b. Naksu is still grappling with their actual relationship - Master Student? Servant Master? (Cue the preview for ep 17 when she calls out to him as "my pupil" not my love or something romantic).
Like, which part is she supposed to be? This is probably why she is angry that Uk needs to seek permission from Maidservant Kim. As Uk's master, she feels it's her right, as a servant she feels she wouldn't stand a chance.  Now, as a lover, she feels Jang Uk should be more forceful in showing his love.

Now coming back to the mystery of Mudeok/Naksu/Buyeon and how she or they survived and who the father of Bu Yeon is.

1. Agree with the theory that Naksu and Buyeon had naturally (or is that accidentally ? coz both did not know of each other's abilities) souls shifted because of who they are. Naksu having mastered Hwansu and Bu Yeon is able to detect souls/energies that are in need of help. We know that Bu Yeon is a kind and generous girl (So Yi said that a couple of times about her) so she probably naturally was attracted to Naksu's soul because she was trying to help or it could be Naksu's Hwansu soul called out to her (accidentally/naturally) during the transfer.

On another note, how did Master Lee's Hwansu body inhabit that homeless dead boy? What's so special about the dead boy? They weren't remotely close (physically, emotionally, or spiritually - I guess). We need to know how Hwansu souls pick their bodies for transfers. Because only a couple in Daeho mastered that skill, I think someone mentioned that a couple of episodes ago. 

2. Agree that the natural or Hwansu-induced transfer was the reason there is no blue mark and that she appeared like a normal human being.  Right now only Jang Uk (and the people in the palace) know the story of how Master Lee transferred (through meditation of 100 days). But we are still not sure if Uk caught on (which I think he eventually might, considering how smart he is) that the soul shifting was Hwansu-inspired and that such transfers allow one to be unaffected by the need to feed off another human to maintain their energy.

Probably the reason why Sapsali did not attack Master Lee and became friends instead with him eventually. Notice Gwiju's same reaction when it (before it was Sapsali) first met Naksu? It didn't attack her but the soul shifter behind her in Songrim. The reaction of Gwiju to Master Lee is similar to the 2nd time it met Naksu at the back of the Songrim halls before Jang Uk broke the porcelain artifact, he was growling.  Their 3rd encounter was (Gwiju already a Sapsali by this time) in Danghanggyok, he was not growling but was not friendly either. He was only calmed by Jang Uk's instruction (well he was afraid to be smashed again was more like it). In any case, he was calm thereafter because he realised Naksu and Master Lee are similar.

3. Now about Master Lee and his plans, we know he detected that Mu Deok was a soul shifter when they were at his home at Danghanggyok and he knew it was Naksu from her energy.  He also knows Jang Uk was born of the King's Star and noted how both of them, Naksu and Jang Uk already have a strong bond (him calling them out as a married couple when they were bickering is his note that they already have that bond). He knows the strong bond has to be kept intact because, at this point, he knows Uk needs to be protected in order to carry out his mission. A boy born of the King's Star only appears when he is needed to right the balance from imminent chaos. Now does he know that Naksu is also Bu Yeon who is a product of an ice stone? Not sure. But we know Naksu was given an inkling because, during the time Master Lee detected her energy, she was taken into the soul world and saw two of Mu Deok/Bu Yeon and she was puzzled. This is probably an indication that Naksu's soul is being kept alive by Bu Yeon's ice stone, this is something the artifacts picked up as soon as Mu Deok/Naksu came out of the mirror at Jinyowong. They didn't pick it up when Mu Deok/Naksu first entered the room. Now how is Ice Stone/Bu Yeon gets activated? Not too sure as of now. It could be when they feel threatened/frightened.

Case in point,  young Bu Yeon while trying to gather the energy for uncle Jin Mu detected his evil intention hence she fell into the water after knowing the shock (one may argue she fell because she could not handle the immense energy she is gathering then), frightened that Naksu may not get to meet Jang Uk hence Bu Yeon surfaces and uses her ice stone to get Naksu out (hence why Naksu is blinded by the immense light - she wasn't aware that energy may emanate from her and at that much force) and lastly when Naksu's energy was felt by Master Lee, hence she appeared to Naksu in her soul dream to calm Naksu that she would survive this test (only Naksu has got no idea who Bu Yeon is and what she can do).

4. Now about suppressed memories, agree Bu Yeon is at another level and is probably the same level as the earlier high priestess except she doesn't know about it. She probably suppresses her memory to allow Naksu to inhabit and live in her body but does so naturally, without malice. But could suppressing memories of the host body be part of the Hwansu soul-shifting rules?

On this note, I'm wondering if Master Lee remembers the homeless boy's memories prior to his inhabiting it?

5. Speaking of memories, no Jang Kang is not Bu Yeon's dad. Going by the way Lady Jin begged Jang Kang for him to use AoS on dead fetus Bu Yeon, it was more a professional, helpless mother's plea. The reason for her plea could lie in the fact that Bu Yeon was conceived with her first husband who probably is dead.  Also probably the reason she was holding on to her in her belly for so long (13 months), didn't want to let her go. I am assuming the first husband is one from the Seo family (noticed there was a non-lit lantern when Lady Heo was explaining that the Queen - a Seo, is still alive?). She got married again to the current one, Shaman Choi's brother, and got Barbie Jin. We know this from Shaman Bong who called out to Uk in ep 16 and shared this fact. Why did she marry a shaman's brother? Probably for magical powers.

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jac

Has anyone paid attention to the voodoo doll that Shaman Choi was holding onto (and smeared it with blood)? It’s being blindfolded.. could it be possible that she made Bu Yeon blind? And possibly erased her (childhood) memories and hence BY became “Mudeok”?

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mellody
 jac:

Has anyone paid attention to the voodoo doll that Shaman Choi was holding onto (and smeared it with blood)? It’s being blindfolded.. could it be possible that she made Bu Yeon blind? And possibly erased her (childhood) memories and hence BY became “Mudeok”?

Yes, I saw it. It is very possible she was doing some vodoo to Bu Yeon. The question is why Bu Yeon? Shaman Choi's enemy is Jang Gang (Song Rim). Why didn't she do it to Uk?  

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Aramintai
 mellody:

Yes, I saw it. It is very possible she was doing some vodoo to Bu Yeon. The question is why Bu Yeon? Shaman Choi's enemy is Jang Gang (Song Rim). Why didn't she do it to Uk?  

I don't think her doing voodoo sorcery had anything to do with anything other than the fact all sorcery is forbidden. Songrim did a crackdown on her illegal business and now she plots revenge. The fact that she's of the disgraced Choi clan which was destroyed by Songrim's leader just adds more fuel to the fire.

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mellody
 Aramintai:

I don't think her doing voodoo sorcery had anything to do with anything other than the fact all sorcery is forbidden. Songrim did a crackdown on her illegal business and now she plots revenge. The fact that she's of the disgraced Choi clan which was destroyed by Songrim's leader just adds more fuel to the fire.

We are talking about the shape of the doll. The doll with eyes blindfolded. Why it is not normal doll? It looks exactly like blind Mudeok/Buyeon.

edited Quote
Ahead

The Title: “Return”
Theories based on the title.
Which one is it interpreting or is it all?
Returning all the ice stones to the sky is the main point of the story.
Naksu’s soul returns to her original body.
JBY returns to her rightful place.
Everyone returns to their rightful places.
Everything is back in order with the nature of the law.

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ShinHyeSunFan6021023
Very interesting detail I just noticed. When So-Yi tried to open the door, the sign / wall behind Cho-Yeon and Mudeoki appeared to be made of concrete, it wasn't emitting any light whatsoever, it just looks like a regular grey wall. However, once Mudeoki started feeling light-headed and nauseous ( -> Bu-Yeon's powers ), that wall started emitting a sort of golden yellow light. In fact, the camera work was special in this scene. It zoomed in on Mudeoki covering her eyes, then briefly zoomed in on the wall, finally back to Mudeoki. Does this mean Bu-Yeon interacted with that wall to open the door? Is that another way of opening the door? Jin Ho-Kyung after hugging So-Yi, turned to the back and noticed Cho-Yeon and Mudeoki. Even as Cho-Yeon kept running toward her, the sign / symbol on the wall still appeared golden when Mudeoki was standing next to it. Immediately after noticing this, Jin Ho-Kyung's smile faded away and she stared at Mudeoki. If Cho-Yeon opened the door by interacting with that sign, maybe the sign should've stopped glowing as Cho-Yeon ran away from it, the fact that Mudeoki stood there and the sign kept glowing perhaps signaled to Jin Ho-Kyung that, Mudeoki is 100% the one that opened the door and she is in fact the real Bu-Yeon. 


Now, I could be completely over-analyzing the camera work and these couple of minutes and also overestimating how smart Jin Ho-Kyung is, it could just be my own copium, but I think Bu-Yeon opened the door for a very good reason, and that is to indirectly tell her mother that she is here. Jin Ho-Kyung's expression at the end was not that of joy, like she was supposed to be feeling after finding her long-lost daughter, but more like she was shocked. Think about it, Bu-Yeon doesn't benefit whatsoever from the fact that Jin Ho-Kyung thinks someone else is the real daughter and now agrees to do whatever Jin-Mu tells her to do, rather, this is Bu-Yeon's way of saying, "mother, I'm here, and here's the proof. That person standing in front of you is not your real daughter."


(posted this on reddit and thought I should post it here too, I didn't see too many people discussing the wall that was literally glowing...)

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Izyda

It is possible that the shaman Choi put a curse on Bu Yeon not because she wanted it but because someone paid her for it or on someone's order? Or maybe it was Jin Mu's plan to get revenge on his stepsister. Or was it planned and not to blind Bu Yeon, but to resurrect a shaman who was to find the ice stone? And maybe a Bu Yeon's father was a brother of the shaman Choi?                                                 It seems that Bu Yeon wanted to become a different person so that no one would recognize her, so she absorbed Naksu's memories. Bu Yeon's soul, which holds Naksu's memories, acts like her and thinks like her. She doesn't remember who she is or where she came from, to fool everyone, Bu Yeon had to get rid of her memories and put them in her subconscious, which are now starting to release. As for me, it would mean that only her soul is in Mu Deok/Bu Yeon's body, and Naksu unfortunately died.  And it seems to me that Bu Yeon did not contribute to Naksu's death. Cho Yeong simply died and did not manage to enter the body of the young girl. Knowing this, Bu Yeon simply absorbed her memories for her own use.

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Tetrahedron IX

@ShinHyeSunFan6021023 My thoughts exactly, I posted this earlier today.

"I agree with most of what you stated. I don't understand why people overlook the obvious fact the director is intentionally showing us Jin Ho-Gyeong glaring directly at Mudeok who can barely see as the Jin family crest glows behind her. Now whether Jin Ho-Gyeong accepts or rejects this is a different story. But notice the camera work the end of EP16 contrasting Jang Gang meeting his soul shifted born son UK and Jin Ho-Gyeong glaring at Mudeok/Naksu her soul shifted daughter. (I know her daughter's soul didn't shift).  Is the director conveying the meeting of Father/Son and Mother/Daughter.  Jin Ho-Gyeong just found her long lost daughter of 10 years but yet something about Mudeok strikes her soul at that moment, her facial expression changes from joy to confusion almost like she made a mistake, while Mudeok looking pitiful like a child who can barely see, clutching a pillow in the gaze of her mother. This was one of the most beautiful scenes for me because so much was said yet nothing was spoken. Maybe, we get a repeat of the slapping scene in Bu Yeon's room, where we again see the facial expression of Jin Ho-Gyeong change as she glares at Mudeok in the same manner before switching to an angry outburst. We can obviously see from the previews of the next ep, that Mudeok remains a maid and So-I becomes the fake Bu-Yeon. So the director is likely showing us Jin Ho-Gyeong's building suspension while building the suspense for us, that moment was no completely lost on her. "

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Izyda

Jang Kang was not a very good mage because he practiced witchcraft for which one he should have been punished, but he fled Daeho because Uk was born. And everything that happened was his fault, because he started soul shifting all over again. It is possible that the shaman Choi cursed him and not Bu Yeon. In the first episode, Jang Kang's apprentice - Geon, is killed by his hand, he run wild. It is possible that his mother went to the shaman Choi, who cursed him, she could also be her sister-in-law. The voodu doll was smeared with blood, and it was Jang Kang who contributed to its shedding via AoS. He was cursed and lost everyone around him, his wife, friend and his family, and even his own son. For AoS he was punished.

edited Quote
Conservative Torch
 Ahead:

The Title: “Return”
Theories based on the title.
Which one is it interpreting or is it all?
Returning all the ice stones to the sky is the main point of the story.
Naksu’s soul returns to her original body.
JBY returns to her rightful place.
Everyone returns to their rightful places.
Everything is back in order with the nature of the law.

Return of Songrim's leader and Jinyowon's leader? Their rebirth?

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Kathryn_51

Last week, I started to draft this but Ep. 16 finally clicked and it’s time to stop drafting and make a post.  Not much theory – just lots of observations.  I don’t have time to review all my notes and re-watch every possible scene, but I think the following observations will be important to understand Jin Bu-yeon and “Naksu”.  I put “Naksu’s” name in quotes because the name represents a manufactured persona/personality.  For a few weeks, I thought perhaps her soul had gradually seeped out and was nothing more than a collection of memories to help Jang Uk achieve his destiny. Her personality has changed drastically in a few short months (Daeho time).   I apologize for it's length - I already deleted large portions.  It's broken into six (6) sections:  1.  Daeho Femals/Jin Ladies; 2.  The Sword; 3.  Master Lee Statements; 4.  What Jin Mu believes; 5. "Naksu"; and 6.  Jin Bu-yeon.

Daeho Females/Jin Ladies

  • Many of us have wondered why there are no women mages at Songrim.  This is not an unforced error by the writers.  There is a reason. 
  • Daeho females who have powers/enhanced energy are not mages in the classic sense: they are healers, shamans (sorcery?) or a priestess.  There are female guards at Jinyowon – presumably specially trained in certain spells or enchantments. 
  • Jin women are born with “more divine powers than spell-related powers”.  [This statement by Cho-yeon was like a final puzzle piece that might explain ] If I understand the concept correctly, their powers are more from the heart/soul, not energy from water.  They have their own special spells and enchantments.
  • I think Jin women powers might be inherited by their SOULS, not their BLOOD (body). If true, this is a BIG mistake by Jin Mu.
  • Even though Jin women powers are different, the Jin matriarch sits at the table of the 12 member Unanimous Assembly.  The Jin family has special privileges that no other mage family possesses.
  • “Naksu” is the ONLY female “mage” in Daeho – and all she did was kill people upon order from Jin Mu.  She was trained to be the Shadow Assassin.  That’s it.  The ONLY female?  In a country where no other female is trained to be a mage with increasing levels of energy mastery? 
  • I think “Naksu” is a Jin.  Maybe Cho-yeong’s mother was a Jin?  Or maybe “Naksu” is an alter ego/split personality of JBY.  In the end. . it only matters that she is Jin.

The Sword

  • 1.   Premise:  “Naksu’s sword” is not like any others.  It is an enchanted sword. [This is not a new theory – it’s been discussed many times previously on MDL]
  • 2.  In all scenes (that I re-watched) with her sword, there is a special aura emitted when the sword is unsheathed.  See also the intro scene with the sword suspended in air – emitting an aura.
  • 3.   One of the first things we learned from “Naksu” is that she receives her “energy” FROM her sword.  All other mages get their energy from water/earth/atmosphere.  All other mages pour energy INTO their swords.  “Naksu” receives energy FROM her sword. 
  • 4..I believe (but could be wrong – I didn’t rewatch ALL scenes) every scene with Naksu that involves “energy”, she is using her sword. She unsheathes her sword and then uses it for energy (the battle on the ice, for instance).  Other than using the Soul Ejector, we have not seen her cast spells. Park Jin, Master Lee, Yul, others – they don’t need their swords in order to perform “magic” or spells.   [Please do not hesitate to correct me if I missed something regarding “Naksu’s” abilities.]
  • 5.  I believe that “Naksu’s” sword is an enchanted sword, unlike other swords, and it is a JIN FAMILY sword. Naksu’s energy comes FROM the enchanted JIN sword and it is what allows her to use her divine Jin  powers on a different level – a mage (Ryusu, etc) level 

Master Lee Statements

  • Episode 5:  A “great soul has shifted into this body.  She should have run wild by now, judging by how weak this body looks. How is she still fine?”.  The next day:   “That soul shifter is special.  There is a great soul dwelling inside that small body.”
  • Ep. 8: [talking about Jang Uk] “He will be fine; she will protect him” as he recalled “Mu-deok” [JBY]on the cabin porch with an “aura” around her.
  • All of Master Lee’s comments above reference a SINGLE person/soul.  He does not mention two souls.
  • Master Lee knows that “Naksu” was Cho Yeong.  He told Maidservant Kim that Cho Yeong was dead.  He indicated her “spirit” may still be around the Jang Kang household.  What was his purpose or goal?  Was he trying to subtly communicate to Mu-deok to let her “Naksu” persona die? Maybe someday we will find out.

What Jin Mu Believes

  •  Jin Mu believes “Naksu” shifted souls with the courtesan Ae Hyang and that her soul is at the bottom Lake G. in the body of the courtesan Ae Hyang.  THIS IS IMPORTANT.  Jin Mu believes that whoever he created as “Naksu” – her SOUL is in Ae Hyang’s body and that body is at the bottom of Lake G. 
  • I continue to believe there is a good chance that the FROZEN body of “Naksu” (Cho Yeong) is on ice somewhere in Cheonbugwan.
  • When Jin Mu realizes that Jin Bu-yeon and/or Naksu is still alive, what will he do???

“Naksu”

  •  “Naksu” is a name created by Jin Mu.  She has apparently only one “persona” - the “Shadow Assassin.”
  • “Naksu” is very knowledgeable about mage energy – the Lake, the different levels, Golden Fish, etc.  Because of this knowledge, she was able to train Jang Uk.  [Question that will probably never be answered – how did she gain all of that knowledge living by herself?]
  • “I do not know if I toughened up to survive or if I survived because I was tough.  By the time my past life and my father had been forgotten, I finally returned to the world as Naksu”.  It’s not clear if she even remembers her birthdate or birth name.  She sees herself only as “Naksu” – tough, survivor, no history, no sense of humor, no personality. 
  • Her one show of emotion/feelings – the bird whistle.

Jin Bu -yeon

  •  Jin Bu-yeon has amazing divine powers. She was born on a day “blessed by the skies” and therefor has a special destiny.
  • I believe “divine” power indicates that the power is from her soul/heart (as opposed to water)
  • Her birth appears to be the result of the ice stone. She may have the “ice stone” (whatever that means) within her body
  • Jin Bu-yeon’s soul is in Jin Bu-yeon’s body.  That’s why her body is in no danger of running wild.
  • Jin Bu-yeon’s powers have manifested several times, and all of them were for the purpose of protecting or saving a life (sometimes her own) – in other words, “divine” powers.
  • When “Mu-deok (JBY)” visits Jinyowon, she is deeply affected both physically and mentally. “It’s happening again; it happens every time I visit Jinyowon.”

Final Thoughts

The AoS writers have provided us with a wide variety of information/clues as to the identity of and relationship between Mu-deok, Naksu, and Jin Bu-yeon.  Can we rely on any of it? I don’t know and I’m not going to try and predict the outcome.  An example of the games they play:

Episode 16.   “A really powerful priestess can control people’s souls and trap them to be helpless.  If the priestess traps their powers even the most powerful mage is helpless.”  [Some viewers think:  JBY’s soul must have trapped Naksu’s soul and this confirms how there could be TWO souls in Mu-deok’s body]. 

Also Ep. 16.  “I heard there were shamans who can erase or change memories of a soul” [Some viewers think:  JBY’s memories were erased and/or changed and thanks to Jin Mu, she became Naksu but now she’s back in her own body. The “Naksu is actually Jin Bu-Yeon” theory is explained in this Twitter account:  MyOhMy ??‍?????? (@DaisiesOh) / Twitter]

The REAL Final Thought

I finally took the time to take a scene by scene look at the very first promo for AoS (Jang Uk with the book; Mu-deok with her sword).  I was stunned when I re-watched the scene of ”Mu-deok”– although, in the end, it may mean nothing.

2nd half:  A blindfolded Jung So-min (“Mu-deok”) unsheathes the sword; the wind blows, the blindfold falls and the sword slices through it; Mu-deok opens her eyes and they show the blue mark;  THEN we pivot to quick scenes of  Go Yoon-sung (“Naksu”) performing alchemy of souls and with sword and blue mark in HER eyes; finally back to Jung So Min’s eyes with the blue mark.  If this promo is intended to be accurate, then it implies that  Jin Bu-Yeon (or “Mu-deok”) always had the blue mark in her eyes.

Alchemy of Souls 2022 l Official Trailer - YouTube

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imagine

Kathryn_51

I quite liked your post with the six sections. I found the very last part quite interesting, I haven't heard of that theory before. So I watched the original trailer, and spotted a detail, i dunno how special it is, but I thought I would still mention it. 

In episode 1, Joo wol refers to the major four famile's childern as the four seasons. And Jin Cho Yeon is refered to as spring and is shown in front of a blossoming tree with petals falling down. 

In the trailer "Mu deok/Naksu" is shown the same, in front of a blossoming tree with petals falling down. I thought it interesting, could it be because they are sisters or is "Mu deok/Naksu" the real 'spring'?

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Ahead
 Conservative_Torch:
Return of Songrim's leader and Jinyowon's leader? Their rebirth?

I would say, the return of two superhuman but different people, not Songrim's leader and Jinyowon's leader cos Uk is open and follows his heart whereas Songrim's leader isn't. Jinyowon's leader wasn't two souls one body like MD. We don't know much about her past so I am not sure if Jinyowon's leader was one soul+one body or two souls+one body.

We will have to wait and see if it's rebirth (Same people) or not.

For now, I believe that they are not the same people. :D

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Ahead

     Kathryn_51:
    The Sword

In EP 1, MD imagined killing Uk while he was taking a bath. If she only relies on the sword's energy, she is not someone impressive then. Her father was a mage who have reached Chisu cos Jin Mu said that only those who have reached Chisu can open the constellation ceiling.

Naksu was focusing on getting energy back from the sword because she was too weak right now. She couldn't have survived alone in Danhyanggok depending on the sword. She must be more than that. So, you may have mistaken it or you believe that she gets energy from the sword. For me, I believe that she was born a genius too but not as much as Uk or JBY by how the story goes. I think that JBY eyes would be fine if she didn't have divine energy. Naksu wouldn't be able to see if JBY's eyes weren't good.

I believe in two souls and one body so far cos:
1. There were no blue marks on both bodies (Naksu and MD) in the first place. Naksu only gets a blue mark after using the soul ejector which means it's her first time using AoS.
2. Naksu's body didn't wake up like Gil-ju after AoS. Even the blind girl will wake up and say something. But this body didn't move at all.
3. When they did AoS for the first time, their souls look like their bodies' images.
4. Two personas would look the same but they were not.
5. There was one time when Naksu looks like blindfolded MD in her dream, but I think it was because the soul was moulding into the body's image or she could go wild. Maybe.
6. If two personas, why was the blindfolded girl (JBY) so generous & kind to Naksu just as So-i said. She literally let Naksu take control of MD's body. She didn't come out when MD's got tortured for poisoning Uk.
7. If there are two personas, why didn't the blindfolded girl try to take control? If we are talking about souls, JBY's soul knows that she can control the body at any time and let Naksu control her for now.

I will read the rest of your comments later. See ya.

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