Novel Fans and Donghua Fans Sanctuary

LOL

 10katie01:

On the other hand, sitting on steps, and trying to act as it was hard to walk up those steps, you would think would be extremely simple to film XD

However the pirate doctor probably wouldn't make it past the writer's rooms first coffee break.

LOL

Dang it...the Purple Pearl Pirates and the Doc was one of my favorite parts of Sea God Island XD.

@apocalib +1

@katie

I don't want to turn this into a JoL discussion lol but I feel like some of the most hype moments of the story are still upcoming? Not sure what you meant by temple arc, maybe that's something further in (I got to about the 70% mark where FX and Duo Duo met up in fantasy Mongolia and I got distracted) but the scene where the emperor and three sect masters met on the mountain to throw down was so good it gave me chills and the entire arc where Fan Xian had to defend the capital from the invasion/coup was epic. 

Maybe it goes downhill after that but I'd imagine season 2 will be better then season 1 if it ever happens. 

Full disclosure I don't actually read the novels I do the audiobooks so they're loooong and I get distracted and don't finish quite often

 apocalib:

I would honestly like to ask you, what's the problem with crying?

im fine with crying but he cries all the time that he's overused not he's not attractive so i dont get that feeling of "what a beautiful scene" from it. like when SiFeng I'm like "Baobao dont cry." but Deku, i'm like "again???"and sure he gets bullied but he doesn't stand by for himself, a pushover. another thing is his personality is common place in anime (which is why i got bored of anime)

then San Ge came along in my life and omg dear heaven, how refreshing. Why WHY?? did that f*cker change that part i love about him into another typical anime protagonist 

like that composure! that calm and cool personality! yo that's my lao da!! Tang San is the key figure in me getting into Chinese novels

in Chinese novels, when mc gets bullied, they let them have hell. even if its not realistic or something, i still like it bc it's different and it caters to my taste. cuz thats how i act irl to the best of my ability. (I get in trouble with the racist teachers a lot bc of this but i'm still happy with my actions)

 10katie01:

*Disclaimer: this next bit is just my point of view. If you think it's insulting, please look past the insult and focus on the content*

Let's face it. Straightforward cultivation stories are simplistic, and because of that simplicity, bland and ultimately boring.

Let's face it. If you have to put a disclaimer on something it's because the tone you used going into it is going to be offensive or can be openly seen as aggressive lol. Saying, "Let's face it," as your preface is only going to make you sound like you're stating your opinion as a fact and it is pretentious. Nonetheless, the reality is that your point of view is pretty shortsighted in this genre. 

It's not about the cultivation story completely per say. It's about the cultivation system, the "power system." These systems can be defined in two ways: hard or soft. 

Soft systems rely on a sort of mystical vagueness, or that the viewer already has a foundation of the genre. Think Harry Potter or LOTR. They have their own moments where they explain things like a science, but for the most part, everything is focused on the world and the story between the characters. You never really find yourself asking, "Where does magic come from? Why do these words activate this spell? How does 'training' and studying actually affect our spell casting? Can't we just say the words and out comes the spell?" For the most part, in these two works, you can primarily essentially explain their power systems as, "It's just magic, it just works, no questions needed." Their power system is just part of the world and an excuse; it is not the focus.

Hard systems are different. They treat their power systems like a science. There is logic and rules you must follow. There is a path on how everyone can get stronger. Some go really nitty gritty with this too like Hunter X Hunter, a masterpiece of an anime btw. The strengths these systems serve is that generally you can get much more grounded and involved with your world building/storytelling, in the sense that every single character has to follow these rules. Every character has earned their powers and we, the viewer, understand exactly how they might've gotten there elevating their character conception even more. It can make a villain or any character intimidating due to our better understanding of the power system. We would know exactly what they're capable of, thus, making them feel much more like a real threat without them needing to lift a single finger. Systems like these are used as a tool to immediately define foundational stakes in a conflict without spelling it out, talking about it, or even showing the viewer. This can give freedom to develop other aspects of the story if the author so chooses (in DD the author chose mostly on combat as that was their demographic after all, and they themselves was a guy). It is a great tool to help build your world if you want a more grounded approach that can make your world feel more "real" in a sense, like, you can actually see this world exist because of your own better understanding of the rules it operates under, making things more believable. However, as you'd expect, stories revolving around these systems have very high potential of being far harder to write as you limit yourself to the system you created. In this sense, this type of writing can be a true test of your creativity and storytelling.

Power systems in general, can also be used as a direct tool to measure or mirror progression and character development. Overall, this makes power systems have a very simple barrier of entry in terms of story telling, but it's potential is far greater than what you say it is. Its beauty lies exactly in its simplicity, but its potential can make the story shine and stand out even more when used properly. 

Keeping a simple story can also make the barrier of entry simple. Just because a lot of this genre's overall story might be simple, it doesn't mean it is lesser. It might just be focusing on something else. Heck, Disney stories are extremely simple yet massively successful across almost all ages.

Cultivation Stories/Shounen/DD: Generally, stories like these, of course, aren't going to make it so everyone has the same exact power, that'd be boring. The author then adds in things like, sects, styles, and skills. In the case of DD, it is the Martial Soul Branches and the variations of souls within, alongside with the Spirit Ring abilities, how a soul beast might affect your Soul Ring/Martial Soul, and the introduction of Spirit Bones as well. This creates a sense of wonder for when a new character arrives or is simply mentioned. Immediately, we are left to guess and anticipate, "Just what exactly is their power? What are their Spirit Ring abilities? What branch? How do they use it? What does it look like?" and most importantly, "How the hell are our characters going to deal with it?" This is also why tournament arcs are so popular. There is no running away and leveling up to battle later, our characters have to deal with this now. It is also almost never as simple as, this guy is higher level so he immediately wins. Sure, they'll win if that's how dry your power system is (Dragon Ball and the like is something that suffers from this quite a bit, but people like that show for different reasons). 

In comes a good power system. With a good power system, there's going to be an essence of strategy at play, whether the power system is harder or softer. Harder systems tend to heavily emphasize on the importance of strategy far more than soft. In hard, we viewers understand very well about the capabilities of the system, and so we probably also have a general idea of how the fight might play out, but never exactly. Heck, it is because we understand the system so well that the fight instantly becomes more believable. With the usage of strategy and a hard system at play, the feeling of victory feels much more earned. Fights like these are fun because we, the viewer, might know the end, but we have no idea of the journey. It's sort of like, why do we ride a rollercoaster? You see the track, you know exactly how it goes and ends. But in fights, we can only really be sure of the end of the track to a degree, we do not know the tracks leading up to it at all. We can only guess the tracks, and that's also part of the fun, as guessing how a fight might play out is a direct test to the viewer on how well they understand the power system at play. It is then the author's job to try to surprise and one up the viewer every time. 

All this was what, imo, made The Sacrifice Arc in DD so amazing since we got so used to TS winning all the time leading up to it. However, we also knew very well how powerful of a force he was facing due to our understanding of the power system at play. No matter how much we might try to cheer him on, we knew exactly just how powerful everyone was in that arc. Instantly, you get a situation where many readers and viewers were trying to guess the tracks of a rollercoaster that also has to follow the rules of the system that leads to TS's victory. That is the fun of all this. 

Anyone who has enjoyed stories with even Harder Systems like HxH will understand exactly what I'm trying to get at here as well. 

Of course, any system can be harder or softer than others, it just depends on the extent you're willing to go, and the story you wanna tell. I think any reader or watcher of DD can agree that it is a Cultivation Story that falls under the Hard System more so than the soft. That is why many are baffled at how much the screenwriter chose not to showcase it/butcher it. 

Most of the time in stories like this, the protagonist is also a genius or super smart in some form. This isn't just for relatability or for a self-insert power fantasy, or to make progression easier. It also serves a storytelling/world-building purpose. When the story is told primarily in their POV, we will see the world differently. They are our eyes and ears. We will see them break down details and elements of the world for us, the viewer, so that we can better understand it, ultimately making the world more believable and alive. Like, do you think if DD's main protagonist was Oscar from the beginning, we'd get the same flavor of understanding?

Shounen-like stories also tend to be motivational to youths. After all, these types of stories center around youths getting stronger, forging their own paths, and fighting against those above them.

And yes, believe it or not, the whole rebirth/isekai genre is extremely popular. The world isn't a pretty place across the globe, and people like this genre because it is literally escapism.  

Sorry for the long one boys.

 OniBro:

I think any reader or watcher of DD can agree that it is a Cultivation Story that falls under the Hard System more so than the soft. That is why many are baffled at how much the screenwriter chose not to showcase it/butcher it.

Precisely.  I came to donghua from Japanese anime (+10 for the H&H reference btw) and initially had a terrible time adapting to the fact that most--or at least those I could find at the time--relied almost entirely on the "soft" variety power systems you describe.  I ended up dropping almost all of them, owing to their over-reliance on fantastical magical powers wielded by MC's who'd conveniently obtain them in dubious ways.  Then I found DD and thought damn...THIS is different.  Not only did I find its power system more grounded and organic, but unlike the others, it was way more believably integrated into the central story.  And as you said--that's the heart of the problem with this drama.  You can't cut the balls off the power system and its laws without creating inconsistencies and logical fallacies at some point.  Maybe you can get away with it with other works, but DD isn't one of them imo.

 OniBro:

Shounen-like stories also tend to be motivational to youths. After all, these types of stories center around youths getting stronger, forging their own paths, and fighting against those above them.

And yes, believe it or not, the whole rebirth/isekai genre is extremely popular. The world isn't a pretty place across the globe, and people like this genre because it is literally escapism.  

Yes to your entire explanation, lol. Cultivation stories can be incredibly complex and layered, case in point Jin Yong's stories. I doubt anyone would actually say his stories are simplistic. Boring is a more of an opinion which would possibly mean that cultivation stories are perhaps not your cup of tea. Another ex: FMA, which again, has one of the most tight and complex stories (altho to be fair, there's more of a political edge mixed in with it and isn't solely focused on the cultivation in a manner like Douluo). To go back to Jin Yong, his stories get repeatedly remade because people ENJOY those stories  despite already know 99% of the plot because it's the entire process behind the protag's journey that people want to see. 

Also would like to echo that oddly, rebirth stories are one of the most popular categories in C-novel land. Isn't that just ironic, lol.....I've seen 204862 number of reincarnation novels, to the point where I actually have to filter them OUT because I've gotten tired of them at this point haha.

@Shrimpy - Yes! A movie would actually work excellently and they could choose to focus on a specific arc(s). And I know that XZ has mentioned he wants to do more movies vs dramas. But I think it might be harder to find investment unless Douluo ends up doing extremely well. AFAIK, the drama has solid web views but it's not a huge breakout hit. Fantasy movies don't tend to do well with general chinese movie goers so it would rely heavily, yet again, on the built-in fanbase. One can hope they go the movie route though.

 Shrimpy:

When it comes to Hard Systems as @OniBro said, which are my personal preference, in the novels that I enjoy the most, the world building is closely tied to them. Even if not explained at that exact moment, in the end, everything is connected properly and flows out of and into it. It makes for a highly enjoyable reading experience for me. Cultivation is a must and properly written it makes for a complex world where it connects everything. 

Cultivation system equals the roots of the World Tree, which is the story itself. Cut off the roots, kill the tree - cut off the cultivation, kill the story. 

And that is exactly why part of me dies inside whenever I see a comment on the main page praising the world building. I'm just stuck here like, "I don't think they know what world building is....?" while scratching my head. I think people just like that buzzword. There's a difference between introducing a cool concept/premise to your world, and then actively using that to world build. So I'm convinced people are just mixing up the powers and abilities with that buzzword due to the pretty colors on screen, and not actually understanding what it means to world build.