Love You Forever, Xiang Liu.

 HeadInTheClouds:

Yes. Maybe once it gets closer to the air date more XL and TJC fans will come back and the other thread will pick up. But post wherever you liked, someone will engage, I'm sure :-)

It's so nice read comments here, I don't want to be rude, but mental gymnastics some people make on main drama page to make XL looks bad, or erase XY love to him is insane ??  

 insideout91:

Sorry I was absent I almost didn’t watch anything and wasn’t in Mdl (( also not very nice life stuff , but I’m happy back!!

So glad you're back!!!!

 insideout91:

https://x.com/tlmssusu/status/1805968357780607284

That edit is masterpiece ???

SO good!!

 nathsketch:

We managed to have our Xiang Liu threads running for nearly a year. That's no small feat. Hope it will pick it up again!

You did amazing job!! Honestly level of your comments and understanding of story now , I feel kinda lost , forgot some things ?

 solarlunareclipse:

I'm actually ok with these clarifications/changes. It actually makes me feel better about XL setting Jing up to be XY's companion after he is gone.  If Jing had no redeeming qualities and showed no growth, I'd seriously question XL's judgement in pushing XY towards Jing, which is what I do with the novel's depiction of Jing. 

At long last, I finally am able to revisit older posts after an onslaught of hectic days on the work and home front.

I once asked end of last year, if Xiang Liu would have gone all out to ensure Jing would be able to accompany Xiao Yao for the rest of her life, if he did not believe Jing had any redeeming qualities to speak of, as far as Xiao Yao was concerned. For me, I believe he would not have. I think one of the strongest deciding factors was when that he refused to survive alone when he believed she died following the Plum Forest assassination. In addition, Xiang Liu had spoke of Jing's business acumen, a man who was not vindictive but not a weak fool either. That was not to say that he was not manipulative, because he was - and even Xiao Yao realised it early on. Still, what Xiang Liu saw was sufficient for him to be willing to entrust the person he treasured most, to him, even if Jing grafted his own identity and existence as inseparable from Xiao Yao, which would imply that without her, he was nothing. 

Actually, it is notable that Jing's utter dependence on Xiao Yao for his existence, is the very antithesis of Tong Hua's belief about love - that one should live one's life well even if love is lost; that love is not everything in life, that one should not make one's life wholly dependent on their loved one.  This too is exactly what Xiang Liu had been telling Xiao Yao throughout the entire novel - how life is worth living as long as wondrous sights existed in the world; that no matter how bleak life seemed, she should still continue on living. 

《Eternally Yearning for Each Other》(English title: Lost You Forever) -- A Mutual Love That Cannot be Together, Yet Unable to Be Forgotten
桐华tonghua   2013-02-26   09:35:53

Many readers remember Mrs. Hu from Jin Yong's "Flying Fox on Snowy Mountain". After her husband died, she committed suicide, a very soul-stirring love that follows in life and death.
I was also very moved and liked this woman very much. However, although I was very young at the time, I still had doubts. She committed suicide, then what happened to her child? How would a child who lost both parents live on? Even if the child was entrusted to the most famous hero in the pugilistic world, what of it? Who can replace the parents' place in this world? (Facts proved that Hu Fei [the orphaned child] did undergo many hardships).

Therefore in comparison, [author] Liang Yu Sheng's Wu Xuanshuang moved me more. The imagery of her taking Li Yi's children and walking step by step in the wind and snow after Li Yi died, will forever be imprinted in my heart. Her love for Li Yi was deep and surpassed her own life, yet she chose to live on and take care of Li Yi's children.

(These are stories I read many years ago, but as I write this, I suddenly realised that I cannot remember Mrs. Hu's name except that she was Hu Yidao's wife, but I can clearly remember Wu Xuanshuang's name. This seems to indirectly imply how one woman made her life dependent on a man, while another woman lived out her own life regardless of how strong her love was.)

What Lost You Forever conveys is a kind of love that "lives [on]". I always feel that in this world, while love is soul-stirring, it is not everything in life.

Familial relationships, friendships, ideals, responsibilities... people have all kinds of ties in this world, and there are a lot of blessings and happiness that do not come from romantic love.

Eternal yearning for each other happens because there is profound love, because it cannot be obtained, because it cannot be forgotten. However, I am willing to bear with all these emotions and live well.
Life is a series of encounters and partings; it is a series of forgetting (leaving behind) and beginnings.
You were once here, you have left.
Even though I find it difficult to stop missing you, I will still smile when I see the beautiful rainbow.

I have not published a new book in two years. This is my new story "Lost You Forever" for you -- my beloved readers, my companions on my journey!

Without you, I will not have story after story [to tell]. Thank you!

-- Tong Hua

cr. YOLO苏璎 Weibo screenshot

 solarlunareclipse:

I'm not as worked up about XL giving up two lives to sever the PLB connection because there was nothing that XY could have done to circumvent that--just like there was nothing she could do about the Plum Forest assassination. I was more concerned about whether XY forced XL to give up an additional life when she poisoned herself on Jade Mountain because that was totally within her control. I would have liked to think that she made sure that XL wouldn't have to give up a life to revive her, like he did with the Plum Forest assassination. But I guess the drama doesn't answer the question of whether he had to expend a life to revive XY from Jade Mountain.

The script clearly states that he gave two lives to kill the Lovers bug, having already gave one to save her during the Plum Forest assassination. This is consistent with what we see during the final battle - 6 heads (representing 6 lives) left. He never had to revive her in Jade Mountain because she was not near death to begin with - she only lost extensive amount of blood which he coagulated into a blood-red pearl. And the ludicrous scenario that followed was that after he destroyed the Lovers bugs, he fed her that same blood pearl (from her own blood) to help her heal. Really? In other words, all that blood-letting in the drama was just to ensure she would be fine after the Lovers bugs were killed, instead of using it to revive a badly wounded Jing.

 solarlunareclipse:

Did CX have a hand in saving Jing, or did Jing save himself and CX just arranged to get Jing to XY in time to cut off XY's thoughts of becoming RM?

Jing saved himself, was found by Lirong Chang who had been tasked by Cang Xuan to continue searching for Jing after he woke up from the dream sequence. Cang Xuan then brought Jing to Jade Mountain to reunite with Xiao Yao. I don't get the impression that he did it to stop Xiao Yao from becoming the next Royal Mother, since I don't recall reading anywhere in the script that the Royal Mother was near death at the time. So there is no sense of urgency to find a successor.  Rather, the Royal Mother was merely offering her an alternative since she would not be allowed to take revenge against Xin Yue.

 solarlunareclipse:

I know that most XL fans are upset that XL's role in saving Jing was diminished in the drama, but I have a different perspective. In XL's letter to XY, he said, "I don’t want you to feel indebted, because I know you always want to repay everything. If you truly repaid it all, I fear there would be no connection left between us." So if debts are not paid back, karmic entanglement between the two people remain unresolved, and will need to be resolved in the future. XL doesn't want XY to repay her debts to him because he still wants something to do with XY in the future.

From that perspective, I'm glad TSJ doesn't owe XL any major debts. I don't want Jing in XL's future if/when he is resurrected/reincarnates.

I don't see it that way. Negating Xiang Liu's role in saving Jing, and even changing the place they left for to Qingshui Town instead of the ocean, totally destroys the fabric of the story, and the whole purpose of the epilogue - how he described changing her three "have nots" to "haves". How could he have ensured she had someone to rely on, if he did not actively ensure the man survived after he was attacked? How could he have ensured she had a place to go to, if she had no intention of going there after his death, a place where Cang Xuan's authority did not extend to. Under a unified Great Wilderness, Qingshui Town would also be under Cang Xuan's rule. Only the vast oceans and uncharted islands remained out of his reach. The changes made no sense, and totally diminished his role and sacrifice for her. Not to mention, relegating the big bellied doll to just another of A Nian's gift that had no particular significance to Xiao Yao, unlike the novel, where the big-bellied doll was the one thing that made her laugh for the first time after finding out about Xiang Liu's death.

Just dropping my essay in here for archival purposes:

With some of spilled debate about #TanJianci #檀建次 Xiang Liu's character in other platforms, I would like address why Xiang Liu is a war hero, Hong Jiang's fight honorable and the Chenrong Resistance Army justifiable?

There's a viewpoint that questions whether Xiang Liu and the Chenrong's fight—regardless of others' hindsight as a lost cause—was even worth fighting for, actually stems from a very narrow and privileged mindset that disregards generational trauma, ancestral displacement, and oppression. It is rooted in colonial foundations where oppressors believe they are better, their culture is superior, and their new ways of life are more peaceful; hence, why aren't people just happy and accepting of it?

IMO, the only way to understand the Chenrong army is to take one's mind out of a colonizing mindset. For those of us whose ancestors had to either assimilate into the dominant culture or migrate to avoid genocide and cultural destruction, the latter being a more guaranteed way to keep our language, customs, and rituals, the Chenrong remnants' fight and presence mean 1) Xiyan cannot truly assimilate Chenrong, and 2) if Xiyan should fall, Chenrong would have a means to protect itself.

When Cang Xuan conquered DaHuang, what did he do to prevent future conflict in Chenrong? He separated and divided Chenrong, ordered the displacement of numerous tribes, and forbade several Chenrong tribes from intermarrying. These tactics were not written from TongHua’s imagination; they are REAL historical tactics interjected into DaHuang. These are assimilation tactics designed to destroy indigenous culture. Maybe, to someone who has never had to wonder if their way of life would cease to exist, it can be hard to understand and grasp the righteousness of the Chenrong remnants.

Another example from *Once Promised*: For some years, Chi Chen was the reason the Jiuli had the power to resist sending their people for indentured servitude. But do you know what happened once Chi Chen was assimilated and owed his life to the Chenrong Emperor? He stopped protecting the Jiuli, and they were forced to continue sending their people into servitude to the great clans.

For me, CX's rule brings back the stories of my ancestors and the violence they suffered. As Tong Hua has based LYF on Chinese mythology, one of those is The Battle of Zhoulu. At the end of the battle, after the fall of Chi You, his remnants were divided and separated. One brother led 1/3 of the Jiuli and assimilated into the Central Plains. The remaining 2/3 were displaced and moved southwestward.

Those of you who are wondering, "What would happen if Cang Xuan dies, or Xiyan falls?" If one cannot imagine a world in which CX doesn't exist and Xiyan is not in power, then it means one has been played into the oppressor's propaganda.

Had someone asked me if Chi You's remnants had managed to defeat the Yellow Emperor in Chinese antiquity, who would lead the Hmong/Miao nation? One would only hope that the man in power would be one to protect their way of life. In my ancestors' case, it would have been one of his surviving brothers or generals who fought to keep my ancestors in their land.

Speaking as someone whose ancestors were divided, displaced, oppressed, migrated, and sought refuge for generations through the corruption of the Ming Dynasty, genocide campaigns of the Qing Dynasty, Vietnam War, and Secret War in Laos, someone like Xiang Liu is a motherf***ing hero. Therefore, Hong Jiang's and the Chenrong Army's resilience is justifiable. They had every right to fight and protect what they believe in, considering that Xiyan is the foreign invaders of Chenrong.

XY eventually understood this and held no grudge against them or Xiang Liu. And do you know what? XY herself couldn't free herself from her own loyalty to Xiyan and her family. Oh, and you know what else? XY was only able to turn her back on her bloodline with the loss of Xiang Liu. That is the impact Xiang Liu had on XY; his loss was so profound that it finally caused her to sever her ties to her family—the family she lost and was desperate to return to for over 300 years. To finally realize what truly matters only after you’ve lost it is XY's real lesson. That is why she had no qualms taking Jing to the ocean despite it meaning creating another generation of trauma for another child.

 liddi:

终于见到了刻骨思念的“她”
“她”的出现让小夭了解了哪些真相？
Finally saw the "her" who is desperately missed.
Which truths does Xiao Yao understand from "her" appearance?

So instead of the hot desert, she is reconciling with her mother at thier old home? I am assuming to save budget-wise, to lump the reconciliation scene and discovering the lovers bugs in one?

 liddi:

再次回到“回春堂”
小夭为什么又做回玟小六？
Returning to "Hui Chun Clinic" once more.
Why did Xiao Yao become Wen Xiao Liu again?

So instead of her creating her clinic somewhere in Chuisui, she went back to Qingshui Town? Or is her new clinic in Chuisiu also called the same name?

 liddi:

享中愈发靠近的男女。。。
是亲吻吗，还是诉说秘密？
The man and woman who are drawing closer in the midst of enjoyment...
Are they kissing, or sharing secrets?

Xiao Yao and Toushan Hou arc...where XY does the dirty work to free her manz?

 liddi:

兜兜转转终于迎来大婚。
这对新人是谁？
Many twists and turns finally end in marriage.
Who are the newlyweds?

Her and Jing?

 liddi:

她向她递去的花环，红得耀眼。
她送上的祝福实现了吗？
The flower wreath she gave her, is dazzlingly red.
Did the well wishes she gave come true?

Is this where Ah nian gives it to her or the royal mother? Is this where XY wait by the sea for seven days and Ah nian gives her the crown of flowers?

 liddi:

共同紧握并蒂莲，寓意百年好合。
最终这对新人结局也如此吗？
Together tightly holding two lotus flowers on a stalk, is a symbol of a long and happy marriage.
Ultimately was this the ending of this newly-wed couple?

XY and Feng Long's wedding. It looks very formal, I would guess that it would be appropriate for a grand wedding.

 liddi:

蛊难解，情更难。
他和她还会再有交集吗？
Poisonous bugs are difficult to remove, love is even more difficult.
Will he and she still meet again?

Obviously, this is XL killing the bugs. The marketing for YaoLiu is all catfishing...lmao. 

So many questions...mainly, my notebook is out to just analyze the differences and write essays complaining about how the changes dilute the original intent of the characters and plot. LOL.

 plor20:

So instead of the hot desert, she is reconciling with her mother at thier old home? I am assuming to save budget-wise, to lump the reconciliation scene and discovering the lovers bugs in one?

The script actually doesn't even have her meeting her mother, just Shao Hao bringing her to Chi Chen's home, where she saw the painting of her parents and the toys Chi Chen made for her. And nope, no discovery of the true nature of the lovers bug, ever.

 plor20:

So instead of her creating her clinic somewhere in Chuisui, she went back to Qingshui Town? Or is her new clinic in Chuisiu also called the same name?

There are several possibilities. Based on the script, this could be the vision of Hui Chun Clinic which Jing created when he was planning to propose to Xiao Yao, but was foiled because she thought he was encouraging her with her medical texts compilation.

The other could be the clinic she set up at Ying province for 13 months, a "second" Hui Chun Clinic?

Another is her time spent in Qingshui town after Xiang Liu took her away from her wedding. However, she was never inside Hui Chun Clinic at the time, so I don't think it is this scene.

 plor20:

Xiao Yao and Toushan Hou arc...where XY does the dirty work to free her manz?

That's my thought too, though I don't recall Hou ever in light-coloured clothing. Actually based on the colours and style of the outfits, I was more tempted to think it was Ru Shou and A Nian, but in no way would those two be in a state of getting closer together in "enjoyment"!

 plor20:

Her and Jing?

Should be.

 plor20:

Is this where Ah nian gives it to her or the royal mother? Is this where XY wait by the sea for seven days and Ah nian gives her the crown of flowers?

To be honest, I can't place this scene. These are poinciana flowers, so it should be either Xuan Yuan mountain or Shen Nong mountain. I can't recall a scene where A Nian gives a crown of poinciana flowers to Xiao Yao unless I missed the details. This crown is reminiscent of the photoshoot where Xiao Yao was dressed in red outside Dragon Bone Prison. Yet if it was the 7-day wait, she was dressed in white as per the script (and the novel). If it is after her solo wedding to Jing, the trailer clearly showed her in a formal headdress. No idea... 

 plor20:

XY and Feng Long's wedding. It looks very formal, I would guess that it would be appropriate for a grand wedding.

Yes. The reference to the two lotus flowers on a single stalk 并蒂莲  confirms it, which we have seen in the S2 trailer.

 plor20:

Obviously, this is XL killing the bugs.

Yes.