peng-peng:I realised something while reading chapter 1 and 12
The meeting of each ML with their future lover parallel their relationship
XiaoJing= XY healed TSJ. Their relationship developed into them healing each other deep scars
XiaoLiu = XL control wxl, he end up always controling her until she broke out of his control and their relationship end.
ZX and Fen Long's sister= Their music was harmonious until it was i nterupted by someone ZX cared about. She contunued to pkzh thrying to get him to join again but he did. She got angry and stopped. This is how their relationship went and ended.
ZX abd A Nian : she always listened to him when she was young, her always get her way and well she end up getting her way to be with him . I do not know what their relationship will be but I feel sorry for Zhuan Xu to have her as his 2nd empress. She will never challenge him seems since she does not sound bright ( sorry I so do not like her lol)
peng-peng:I realised something while reading chapter 1 and 12
The meeting of each ML with their future lover parallel their relationship
XiaoJing= XY healed TSJ. Their relationship developed into them healing each other deep scars
XiaoLiu = XL control wxl, he end up always controling her until she broke out of his control and their relationship end.
ZX and Fen Long's sister= Their music was harmonious until it was i nterupted by someone ZX cared about. She contunued to pkzh thrying to get him to join again but he did. She got angry and stopped. This is how their relationship went and ended.
ZX abd A Nian : she always listened to him when she was young, her always get her way and well she end up getting her way to be with him . I do not know what their relationship will be but I feel sorry for Zhuan Xu to have her as his 2nd empress. She will never challenge him seems since she does not sound bright ( sorry I so do not like her lol)
True there are several parallel things that are happening.
As for Tushan Jing and Xiao Liu/Xiao Yao started out with raw attraction, comfort in each other , and not being able to live a life without one another to solid union. I don't know I could feel development there.
Xiao Liu/Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu started out as her wrong in trepassing and his suspection turned him to act control on her. Later I did get the feeling that he somehow did fall for her. But it was late. Or circumstances are not supporting at all.
I will also answer my point of view to AH reply to your post here, about XL controlling. I will still repeat what I had had said all the way through, XL is not a bad guy. He did care about XY well fare surely. That's why he gives one of his life for XY. But he always made sure and act out as he was the one above her up to the end even when he was doing for her own good. I also don't like how he's not sincere to her about lover bug. And did he control her up to the end? For now I think yes although it may not be all negative. he's the one who severed the memories from her mirror. Why would he do that? And he sort of not accepting the facination she had for as well as her considering him as her friend? XY is willing to keep the memories I guess but she moved on anyway . And yes personally i still find XL act a bit of controlling in last act as well. I may write much more on it once we reach there in rereading together.
I think Zhuan Xu&A Nian relationship is the one that hardly change at all throughout although she was not brat anymore in later chapters.
AH :Even if XY had directly used the word "friend" with no qualifiers to describe her relationship with XL by this point in the story, IMO, that still wouldn't necessarily mean that she definitely viewed him in a strictly platonic way.
For example, when XY and Ah Nian have a conversation in chapter 31 they discuss the events of chapter 13 when XY went to the beach to see TSJ but was intercepted by Ah Nian who pushed XY into the ocean where XL was waiting for her. In that conversation, XY refers to TSJ as a friend, but obviously that doesn't indicate that XY didn't have romantic feelings for TSJ. Presumably there just wasn't a better word that XY felt comfortable using to describe her relationship with TSJ at that point in front of Ah Nian.
Winny Aye:3 hours ago
@AH
In that conversation, XY refers to TSJ as a friend, but obviously that doesn't indicate that XY didn't have romantic feelings for TSJ.
Well if you are refering this one strict line of what she said to compare with her referring to XL as her friend, I suggest you to compare r list out all her actions and thoughts towards both men in all 51 chapters.
I quoted that line as an example to illustrates the fact that if XY refers to a person as her friend, readers should not take her use of that word (on its own) as definitive proof that XY didn't have any romantic feelings for that person, because XY refers to TSJ as a friend in the novel more than once, and yet (IMO) she had romantic feelings for him.
Obviously there are other things that readers can refer to in order to assess how XY feels about a person that she refers to as a friend, including her actions towards that person and her thoughts about that person, to the extent they are shown in the novel.
Winny Aye:if you are refering this one strict line of what she said
Regarding "this one strict line", there are other instances where XY refers to TSJ as a friend. For example, when she lies to Chang in chapter 34.
-----
Chapter 34:
Chang was enraged. “Since you’re with Jing, then you shouldn’t meet privately with Hou.”
Xiao Yao laughed coldly. “I’m just ordinary friends with Jing, and also ordinary friends with Hou. You stop butting in!”
-----
She also says that she views TSJ as just CX's friend a few times (e.g., after the breakup), even though that obviously isn't true. Which, again, highlights the fact that XY choosing to use that word should always be viewed in context.
Winny Aye:to compare with her referring to XL as her friend
I can't recall any instances where XY referred to XL as her friend in the English fan translation of the novel. Are you referring to the official Thai translation of the novel?
In the English fan translation, I can think of a few examples where the text clearly indicates that "friend" is not the right word for how she views XL.
-----
Chapter 6:
“You and Nine-lives Xiang Liu are…..very close?” Xiao Liu thought. “This question isn’t suitable to be answered when drinking.”
“Then drink a few more bowls then answer.”
Xuan poured Xiao Liu a big bowl and Xiao Liu drank it. “I’m scared of him, but I don’t dislike him. I am not enemies with him, but also not friends.”
Xuan replied, “He’s too smart, otherwise I really want to sit down and calmly drink with him once.”
-----
Chapter 13:
In the dark blue ocean depths, Xiang Liu’s white hair white robe was so elegant and refined as he swam, the white hair billowing behind him, making his already handsome face even more ethereally beautiful.
“Who is he?”
The Grand Emperor’s voice asked and Xiao Yao was so surprised, turning around to discover her dad was sitting behind her and looking into the mirror. He was clearly curious about the man in his daughter’s mirror.
Xiao Yao said, “A friend who is not quite a friend.”
-----
Chapter 25:
As she looked around, she saw a familiar figure.
Fang Feng Bei was riding a winged horse through the crowds, his expression gentle with a smile on his lips, just like any regular son of a rich family.
Xiao Yao was rooted in place and watched him come closer to her through the dense thrum of bustling ordinary life. Even knowing it was hopeless, she still fervently wished that this ordinary world could keep him in it.
Fang Feng Bei stopped before her and asked with a smile, “You’re back?”
Xiao Yao smiled back. “I’m back.”
The two of them, one asked and the other answered, as if they really were next door neighbors or close friends, but Xiao Yao distinctly remembered their last parting in front of the gambling den. He was filled with angry intensity while she bolted like a frightened rabbit.
Fang Feng Bei asked, “Have you been seriously practicing archery?”
“Getting a second chance at life, do I dare slack off? I practice every day.”
Fang Feng Bei nodded and added, “There can never be enough skills that can protect a life.”
-----
Chapter 46:
Zhuan Xu sighed. “No matter my admiration for Xiang Liu, we stand on opposite sides so I hope you don’t have any further ties with him.”
Xiao Yao said, “Don’t worry, I know!” It was because it was so clear since the very beginning, that’s why Xiang Liu kept reminding her, and she kept reminding herself, that she and Xiang Liu could never be friends.
Navigating LINKS:
Prologue & Chapter 1: https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/122337-tong-hua-s-xiaojing-drama-novel-exploration-x1f49c?page=1
Chapter 3 : https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/122337-tong-hua-s-xiaojing-drama-novel-exploration-x1f49c?page=2 &https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever-season-2/122339-tong-hua-s-xiaojing-drama-novel-exploration-x1f49c?p=2928519&page=3
Hello dear readers !
We have wraped up our chapter 10 Novel and drama exploration :) ! All links above !
MEANING OF THE WORD 知音
A few day ago, I saw the first posthttps://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever-season-2/119991-tushan-jing-and-xiao-yao-here-s-to-a-happily-ever-after?pid=2935655&page=372#p2935655 about "friend" in which "3/ From Winny's Thai, official version (Publisher and author approuved)." the word "知己" was shown. The same post shows the "google translation of some sentences from the original book in chinese (as shown below) and we can see that another word is used. Therefore, before going to further all sort of debate, let take the correct quote and word that is used in chinese in both drama and the novel.
Below is the text and screen shot of the drama
And the sentence that Xiao Yao used in the novel is exactly the same: 小夭可不接受打击:“得一知音足矣!” according to http://m.xsbiquge.la/book/36337/19812279/2.html (2019 version of LYF) or https://luoxiadushu.com/changxiangsi/67964.htm (2013 version of LYF)
In both drama and novel, Xiao Yao meaned it was enought to have a "知音" (zhī yīn)
The word 知音 is synonym of 知己. There were some view exchanges in the meaning of the word 知己 [zhi ji] in page 372 of this topic. @AH mentioned and gave examples of the difficulty of proper English translation of this word https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever-season-2/119991-tushan-jing-and-xiao-yao-here-s-to-a-happily-ever-after?pid=2936119&page=372#p2936119
Basically, there is no fully equivalent word in English that carries the meaning of "知音". The translation of this word has to take the context and relationship between those people into account for the closest, most suitable meaning.
Here is the meaning of this word in Chinese acoording to the Hanbook Chinese dictionary
知音 (zhī yīn) Definition & Meaning - What does 知音 mean in Chinese | HanBook Chinese Dictionary
1. (v), (fml): proficient in rhythm
- tā kāi shǐ wèi zuò pǐn zhǎo zhī yīn
她开始为作品找知音。
She began to find a receptive audience for her work. - zhī yīn nán mì
知音难觅。
It is difficult to find an understanding friend. - zhī yīn bù shì shuō yù dào jiù néng yù dào de
知音不是说遇到就能遇到的。
Soulmates are not easy to meet with.
2. (n) a friend keenly appreciative of one's talents; an understanding friend; bosom friend
- xī wàng jǐn kuài zhǎo dào zhī yīn
希望尽快找到知音。
Hope to find bosom friend sooner.
When you break down this word further: according the Hanbook
1.know; realize; be aware of; understand 2.knowledge; information; learning 3.inform; notify; tell 4.bosom/intimate friend 5.administer; be in charge of | 1.sound 2.news; tidings 3.tone; syllable; phonetic sound 4.read as 5.(musical) sound; note |
I am not Chinese but we have this word in Vietnamese which roots to Chinese word and normally is used as the 2nd meaning. From the meaning of each component of the word and the overall meaning by the dictionary, the word "知音" can be understood as following:
Acouple of friends regard each other as 知音 when they share understanding on certain subject(s) with each other and keenly appreaciate each other's talent, skill, value on such subject(s).
In other word, their brain have the same rhythm on such subject(s) (generated from the word sound).
"知音" friends may not be confidant ( by definition some one whom secret or private matters are disclosed.
"知音" friends may not be true friend because true friend normally cover friendship connection in general but doesn't focus on a special subject
So, How about the word soulmate that Kaola used in her/his translation
According to Soulmate Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster (so, it's American English), the meaning of soul mate or soulmate is
1: a close friend or romantic partner with whom one has a unique deep connection based on mutual understanding and acceptance
We were always friends, and we always stayed in touch. There was always this connection. I can't explain it. It's almost like soulmates, and it always was.—Melanie Griffith, quoted in People Weekly
Every lonely adolescent fantasizes a lost twin somewhere, the perfect companion, confidant and soul mate—another self.—Sharon Begley
2: a person who shares the same beliefs or opinions as another person
ideological soulmates
You half-heartedly play the election game, giving your vote to the least offensive candidate at the time. But you save your heart, hoping for that day when your political soul mate rides in on a white horse.—Burt Constablealso
: something likened to a soulmate in being very similar to or being a typical companion to another thing
And, unlike their soulmates at Pinehurst, these [golf] courses often feature substantial elevation changes.—Larry Olmsted
Discovery, like its soul mate love, is a many-splendored thing.—Stephen Jay Gould
According to Soulmate - definition of soulmate by The Free Dictionary , the first meaning of soulmate there is "One of two persons compatible with each other in disposition, point of view, or sensitivity. " which is quoted from American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 )
Many of us alway associate soulmate with romantic relationship but actually it is not always the case. According to the above definition (at least in American English) the word "soulmate" which was used by Kaola was quite close to the exact meaning of "知音"
--------------------------------
Now look at the circumstance in chapter 19 when she used this word "知音"
Xiao Yao was specialst in poison and poison making. And Xiang Liu was the only person who could enjoy her poison art. He also understood poison very well. So the narrowest meaning that she intended in that context is they were "知音" in poison. This is not the first time she mentioned this. When she returned to GaoXing in female form, she still kept making poison and XY missed him who could try it.
Xiao Yao started researching poisons again. During the day she went to find the palace doctors to discuss and at night she went to hang out with her dad. Everyday she was busy and it made her feel better. The only regret was that there was no one around for her to test her poisons on.
One night Xiao Yao was in Cao Yao Court admiring the latest poison she concocted, feeling very sad that she couldn’t give it to Xiang Liu.
She took out her most precious mirror and pulled up the memory she saved in it. One was when she drew nine heads on Xiang Liu’s face, and the other was after she moved the voodoo bug from Zhuan Xu to Xiang Liu and walked along the ocean floor with him. She secretly used the mirror to record that moment.
In the dark blue ocean depths, Xiang Liu’s white hair white robe was so elegant and refined as he swam, the white hair billowing behind him, making his already handsome face even more ethereally beautiful.
“Who is he?”
The Grand Emperor’s voice asked and Xiao Yao was so surprised, turning around to discover her dad was sitting behind her and looking into the mirror. He was clearly curious about the man in his daughter’s mirror.
Xiao Yao said “A friend who is not quite a friend.”
The Grand Emperor laughed “I thought at this time you would be missing the Tu Shan clan’s little fox.”
Xiao Yao made a face “Perhaps he’s walking with his fiancee under the moonlight, happy as can be. I’m not an idiot, why think of him?” (Chapter 13)
---------
In addition, Xiao Yao shared with Xiang Liu many other subjects such as swimming, discovery new places and living attitudes. All were acknowledged by Xiao Yao. Therefore, the use of 知音 can convey her thought of the similarity between them in extended matters. Overall, "soulmate" is more suitable than confidant or close friend or true friend in this case.
Xiao Yao felt that she must be growing lonely again and forced herself to think of other things. Swimming, swimming…..there must be other things in her life connected with swimming…..Xiao Yao suddenly missed Nine-lives Xiang Liu very much. If he was here, likely she would not have any time to think about the past. But Wen Xiao Liu was gone and even if she ran into Xiang Liu in the future, he would not recognize her anymore.
Xiao Yao floated on the surface and sighed deeply. (Chapter 13)
---------------------------
From the day he taught her archery until now, it had been two years.
During the two years, the two of them were each other’s companion exploring every nook and cranny of Xuan Yuan Castle. He sometimes disappeared, and then would show up again, always with a whatever attitude. Xiao Yao felt like the two of them could have kept playing together like this for forever and an eternity. Because the two of them were just too similar – they didn’t care about anything, willing to try everything, interested in all, and whatever could make them smile. They appreciated all that was beautiful, but wanted to own none of it. Their life balanced precariously between darkness and light, if they chose light then behind them was thousands of miles of desolation, if they chose darkness then behind them was thousands of miles of glittering luxury. But even if they faced the light, they still had one step in the darkness so their light wasn’t completely pure but instead came from never forgetting all the pain they experienced before. The pain followed them forever which is why they were so strong, so brave, so independent, so cold, so no matter what happened, they knew they could keep on living. (chapter 17)
-----------------------------------
Xiao Yao’s life seemed to return to normal like when she lived in Xuan Yuan Castle. In the morning she practiced archery, in the afternoon she made poisons, every day was packed to the gill.
Every few days she would go find Fang Feng Bei to practice archery and afterwards head to the city of Zhi Yi and Zhe Province to play. Fang Feng Bei lived up to his reputation as a consummate ne’er-do-well playboy for the last four hundred years, he knew Zhi Yi and Zhe Province like the back of his hand. Whatever nook and cranny had something fun, he could find it, whatever was tasty, he would find it. The two of them were each other’s companion as they enjoyed life’s endless pleasures. (Chapter 19)
Winny Aye:Especially if you are choosing to tell it because I said TH writing and her writing for female lead feelings are very straight forward.
Please refer to the introduction of the book written by Tong Hua to see her hint about the style of writting and how straight forward she was: https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever-season-2/121195-about-lovesickness-yaoliu?pid=2857589&page=1#p2857589
This is the introduction to the first volume "Sauvignon Blanc 1: Like First Seeing" written by Tong Hua in the 2019 revision of "Sauvignon Blanc": An encounter in Qingshui Town made everyone appear in the story, and changed everyone's fate, and even changed the fate of the entire wilderness. Xiaoyao met Ye Shiqi, and also met Xiang Liu and Xuanxuan. Their story officially kicked off, but everything was just a line of grass, stretching for thousands of miles. Is what we can see with our naked eyes really the truth? How deep can love go for a person despite all kinds of choices? Lovesickness is like a glass of poisonous wine. It is sweet in the throat and ecstasy in the bones. Until it enters the heart and lungs, there is no cure. When the poison breaks out, it breaks the heart and lungs. Only the smile and companionship of the sweetheart can cure it. If not, it can cure it. , all that remains is the deep love that lasts until death. The story continues. |
So, she already hinted there is beneath meaning, content hidden (everything was just a line of grass, stretching for thousands of miles.) and what we can see with our naked eye may not be really the truth. And if the FL had sticked with YSQ/Jing from the beginning and loyal to such choice there would not be moments that she cut-off her thread of hope on him
Winny Aye:I suggest you to compare r list out all her actions and thoughts towards both men in all 51 chapters
I also suggest you do the same. Don't just look at the word she used but the action she did. Whenever she was asked about marrying she always talked about 2 men. When her grandfather asked her about man to marry: she replied with man with engagement or man who was enemy with him (chapter 16); when Feng Long asked her, she replied that " But the people I meet – the one with the feelings has no ability, the one with the ability has no feelings – only you are willing to give me a safe harbor where I can anchor myself and stop. Thank you!” (chapter 28)
Before XL killed FFB and gave no hope for XY, in her mind she always had choices and if she had no romantic feeling for XL why did she always put him together with Jing in the list since there is no logical reason to place him there.
She had a farewell scences in front of the door of Zhurong's manson with Jing (chapter 20) and Xiang Liu (Chapter 29). Which scene shows her deeper feeling and longing?
She sent farawell gift to Jing and XL before marriage with FL, which one that she paid more attention?
Who wished to be born a few hundred years earlier to come to the death areana to save XL and let him to be only FFB? in that case, is there any chance for Jing?
Last, you choose to interpret every subtle things between Jing and XY is real, authentic etc feeling but then considered her manners, reactions to XL as vague. That is your own choice. However it doesn't supported by the text material. Whenever determining a meaning, message based on the use of a single word or sentence, please refer to the orginal text in Chinese for clarification since there might be lost, misleading in translation. Google, Baidu, various translation tool, dictionaries are all available online
It would be absolutely great for Jing-Yao if XL had not accepted the transfer of Lovers' Bug to him. Yao-Ying could have reunioned much much earlier in the heaven from chapter 21.
H19279:heaven
We don't want to become a source of more unease for your health.
@AH
I can't recall any instances where XY referred to XL as her friend in the English fan translation of the novel. Are you referring to the official Thai translation of the novel?
In the English fan translation, I can think of a few examples where the text clearly indicates that "friend" is not the right word for how she views XL.
Well I was referring to that line in near chapter 19.
Xiao Yao sassed back “It’s enough to have a true soulmate.”
In chapter 13
Zhuan Xu had a servant deliver the news that “Shi Qi is waiting for you outside the dragon bone prison”. Xiao Yao felt happiness mixed with nervousness, it was a feeling she couldn’t fully understand.
....
She finished her meal, washed up, and then casually ordered the maids “I want to change to go meet a guest. Pick me a pretty outfit.”
It was the first time the maids heard the Princess ask to dress up nicely and they all perked up in excitement and pulled out all sorts of pretty outfits for the Princess to choose from.
The maids conferred and decided on three to pick from. Xiao Yao wanted one that didn’t have a cinched waist and was told she would look like she was pregnant under the moonlight.
Another maid said “Princess, we can’t wear these outfits even if we wanted because our waist isn’t small enough, legs aren’t long enough, top isn’t pretty enough. You look so pretty in it, why don’t you wear it?”
Xiao Yao asked “I really look nice in it?”
All of the maids nodded in unison and Xiao Yao thought about how this was her first time meeting Jing as a girl and decided to go with pretty over comfortable.
Xiao Yao picked a white and green robe and the maids did her hair with a bell hair pin so it whistled as she walked. She took a few steps and felt tired but the maids were gasping in joy and clapping “Princess, go see the person now. We promise he will never ever be able to forget you.”
Xiao Yao’s face was burning “What are you guys talking about? I’m just going to see a regular friend.”
All of the maids controlled their smiles – yup, just a friend, a regular friend who was so regular that the Princess would spend all that time dressing herself up.
Well, it too obvious why she said referred to "Jing" there. All the maids controlled smiled to her "regular friend" whom she dressed up for. They understands her nervousness. It is not her thinking but her protested word towards her actions or else her face won't be burning.
She don't even reveal her true feelings towards Jing to ZX. Why would she reveal her true feelings to A Nian.
And ohh about the word "friend"
Yes we all know XL is ZX's enemy. That's why WXL/XY could not consider XL as her friend, but whenever XY think of XL. ..the word "friend" but along with "if" and "no".
As if XY would like to think of XL as her friend, (with all their interactions) if he was not enemy of ZX and circumstances are different.
That's just my gut thinking.
You can just stick to your own opinions.
@H19279
I also suggest you do the same. Don't just look at the word she used but the action she did. Whenever she was asked about marrying she always talked about 2 men. When her grandfather asked her about man to marry: she replied with man with engagement or man who was enemy with him (chapter 16);
Yes in fact we are just doing that. ...if you have read all of takes on chapter 1 to 10. And its not just randomly out of anywhere..
And also what she said to Yellow Emperor is just words she said. She definetly don't take any romantic actions to FFB the way she did to Jing.
Are you really thinking her promise to Jing is all logical? And her actions along it?.
There would not be any line as such..
Chapter 10:
Shi Qi said in a low voice “Fifteen years. Don’t let another man into your heart.”
Xiao Liu raised her head and said with an laugh “Then what about fifteen years later? Can I let another man in fifteen years later?”
Shi Qi’s face darkened and he tightly gripped Xiao Liu’s hands.
Xiao Liu lightly shook their hands and softly said “Don’t worry and go. Fifteen years, I’ll wait for you.” Since that connection and longing couldn’t be severed, then let it remain for fifteen years. After that fifteen years, whether the thread disappeared or became a web, no one knows.
.....
If its logical there wont be any lines of "connection and longing couldn't be severed".
If you think XY taking Jing's 15 years promise to be logical, why blame him for asking her logical quest...
And about this decription of the book..
https://www.novelupdates.com/series/lost-you-forever/
I dont know why you guys took out Jing's part. About this naked eyes could see. Xiao Liu is in man form, Jing/Ye Shi Qi is begger. Xuan is wine seller. That's how we see with our naked eyes on introduction to the characters in Qing Shui town. The context revealed these characters as chapters go on. So what we see with our naked eyes are wrong. Xiao Liu is not man and Jing is not a begger and Xuan is not a wine seller.
About poison in
Chapter 16
Xiao Yao picked out the nine bottles of plum wine all in white jade bottles with a row of red plum blossoms. It was very ordinary bottles but Xiao Yao felt a warmth surrounding her.
Those nine bottles accompanied Xiao Yao from Five Gods Mountain to Cao Yun Court in Xuan Yuan Mountain.
The plum wine, Xiao Yao drank it slowly until she had only one bottle left. She was reluctant to drink it and held on to it while putting the eight finished bottles away.
She wanted to drink the last bottle but wanted to wait for another new batch to arrive before drinking it.
Late at night she would play with the bottles in bed. Sometimes Xiao Yao would smile, but sometimes she would feel sorry for herself.
She waited half a year and never heard again from Jing.
One night, she laid on the pallet playing with the nine bottles, rolling them around on the blanket. It rested on the white sheets and the nine cherry blossoms bloomed brightly. Xiao Yao suddenly thought of Jade Mountain, she waited for her mother there for seventy years and never got anything. In her lifetime, she never wanted to wait for another person again.
Xiao Yao opened the last bottle and instead of drinking it slowly, she downed it all at once. She put the nine bottles away and never took it out to play with again.
Xiao Yao started spending more time developing her poisons. Late into the night, she would lay on the pallet playing with her poisons and thinking of how to make it even better in terms of prettier and not necessarily more poisonous.
She had memorized the Sheng Nong Herb Manuel left by the Flame Emperor, who the entire world regarded as the progenitor of medicine. She also flipped through all the Gao Xing and Xuan Yuan medical books. She didn’t doubt her poisons ability to be deadly, she just wanted to make it look pretty. She stared at the phoenix flower and researched a few days and worked a few nights and finally created a perfect replica of the small red phoenix flower with the same intoxicating fragrance. She made the poison layered on it like the morning dew.
.
Every one of her poisons was one of her longing, one of her missing, one of her feelings. She created it and watched it come to life in her hands, and then carefully put it away to send out.
.....
About this poison she's putting in her longing into it. You see who's she been longing for in above passages? It's Jing and her mom.
Xiao Yao knew what she was doing she was waiting for the guy who has ties (engagement because of family) , while she was going out with another guy, with playboy attitudes. That's why she mention those two guys she was involving with.
So you guys are meaning is that dating playboy because of loneliness and bordem is any seriousness romance..?
So why would she even have this feeling when she's dating another guy she likes..
"She didn’t reject Fang Feng Bei getting close because she wanted the news that she was hanging out with him to spread across all the powerful families and reach Jing. Xiao Yao wanted Jing to know but she didn’t know why she did that. She just wanted to do it so she did it."
More Abstract from Chapter 16
Xiao Yao was confused and didn’t know what Fang Feng Bei was thinking. She thought he taught her archery as an excuse to get close to her. She thought him taking her out to play was a technique to get into a woman’s heart. But he was very serious when he taught her and every time Xiao Yao was learning archery she really respected him as her teacher.
.....
Xiao Yao sometimes felt Fang Feng Bei wasp like a child who was lonely for too long. He had played with too many toys alone and it was no longer interesting. Now he had a companion, he couldn’t wait to take her to play, to experience what he tried. It appeared just casual but was in truth very sincere.
Xiao Yao's feelings on FFB are respect, casual but sincere and also a lonely, are all of these implying to the man she is attracted toward ?
Wait you said about pleasure..?...
Well she's happy spending times with FFB....even as free spirited as Wen Xiao Liu.
But then...
In chapter 19..
She wanted to take his robe off and check to see if the hideous scars were still on his body, but she didn’t dare since she was not Wen Xiao Liu and he was not Ye Shi Qi.
Xiao Yao never concealed where she went and Jing knew she was spending a lot of time with Fang Feng Bei but he never said anything or asked anything.
Actually deep down inside, Xiao Yao wanted him to ask. But he likely thought he had no right to stop her so he didn’t ask. He never even mentioned that Fang Feng Bei looked just like Xiang Liu, not sure if he investigated and found nothing suspicious, or he didn’t think it mattered.
If she had such a feeling for FFB, why would she felt no wrong about it (after she already promise to Jing) and even want Jing to ask her about it.
Why can't it be that XL/FFB know himself that he had NO CHANCE because her actually heart belongs to Jing. That's one of the reason why he didn't take any step further.
About why XY wants XL to be FFB. She had good feelings towards him. If he was FFB or if she was able to save at Arena. He would not have to stick to Gong Gong and die with all those Sheng Nong soldiers. He could just enjoy his life freely. That is the sympathy and bond which is not exclusive to any of romance. Even when she's already married to love of her life. She still wish him escape his fate. I am not even sure if she really understand him.
It is also different from farewell with Jing in chapter 20, whom she had already committed to. They had been apart and experience longing before. But with Jing's responding letter to her love song for him. There's no need to over drama about it in that scene.
As for farewell with XL in chapter 29, it's more like she's losing her good friend. And she and we all know where could XL going back into. She had different interest in life than A Nian. Also her another good companion and brother Zhuan Xu got the throne and was married. So she's bored.
As for chapter 22, yes XL saved XY and let her go to save Jing because XY is Jing's life, and he's XY intended life partner. But that saving her in overall involved all three mls. XL just seem to be obvious because he had 9 lives and had life to heal XY.
However, with XY's body shook at mentioning of Jing's condition, the reason Jing being in such condition, it is righteous for him to mention it. But wouldn't he want to know her reaction too at mentioning of Jing? Even if he didn't informed her XY will still get the news when she went back. Again this is just a gut thinking because XL sort of sent XY directly to the place.
I don't know where this statement of if XL confess if there any chance for Jing. I dont find that in context. XL had no chance since the beginning. WXL's attraction for Jing started since chapter 1. I am not going to repeat what I have said on FFB and XY relationship. But to me I don't find XY showing feelings of wanting to belong to FFB in such a way. There's just no conflict feeling in her in becoming attach to FFB and her promise to Jing. If she had been conflicted, why wouldn't there be a line her regret towards promising Jing regarding to her growing feelings of XL. Why not if she could even think XL would be better of off as FFB. Because there is not the sort. It is also mentioned she did not understand why she want to spread the news of her outings with FFB to reach which is illogical thinking that she did not understand herself. Her romantic feelings for Jing are well shown in her actions and her thoughts.
From Symbolika1 post..
As you probably have noticed, being our regular invisible and silent visitor: we have already moved on from this subject and have reached an agreement unless you missed the posts. In here in this Xiao Jing related thread.
I am going to be nice to myself and will not, nor either of us go through all our examples again. Be it you like them or not. Be it you contest them with Koala's version or wathever bloger or fan translator. (we never called her a die hard fan, this would be far to irespectfull, and it would be correct that you change that in your post).https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever-season-2/119991-tushan-jing-and-xiao-yao-here-s-to-a-happily-ever-after?page=372
We dont perceive you as an interlocuteur valide-valid interlocutor , as you are not mendated by either the writer Tong Hua or any of hers official translation-editorial company -of LyF to be so ( or a c-drama translator). As such I , we cannot take your word further than what you are , a fan amongst us all here. It would be far presumptuous to speak in place of the sources we relate to - for covering this subject. Also it is presumptuous to think that you are challenging us. So far none of your post could be described as such.
Symbolika1 said it all already but I will add.
To our opposite side visitors
It seems that our visitors from opposite side are still going on a loop about this "friend". But this is our side of view on all the words written there. Truely we could not see any words related to her feelings and actions involved to be such romantic way. You guys have on your own opinions. So then let's just agree to disagree. Again this is XiaoJing thread. This is part of XiaoJing fans opinions. .you have your own in your thread...so let's just respect each other then...for others who will agree to our reasoning or to your reasoning, in case there are others reading us...let them decide which reasoning is more valid to them...
Again you bring up this friend subject repeatedly...and some other subjects too. .our answer is the same. ..so if you have your own take on subject and hy you think romance involved as much...just do in your own thread..
Winny Aye:Well I was referring to that line in near chapter 19.
Xiao Yao sassed back “It’s enough to have a true soulmate.”
Ah, the zhī yīn reference. Got it.
Winny Aye:In chapter 13
Winny Aye:Xiao Yao’s face was burning “What are you guys talking about? I’m just going to see a regular friend.”
All of the maids controlled their smiles – yup, just a friend, a regular friend who was so regular that the Princess would spend all that time dressing herself up.
Well, it too obvious why she said referred to "Jing" there. All the maids controlled smiled to her "regular friend" whom she dressed up for. They understands her nervousness. It is not her thinking but her protested word towards her actions or else her face won't be burning.
Ooh yes this is an even better example of XY using "friend" to refer to someone (TSJ) that she obviously had romantic feelings for than the ones I posted. Thank you.
AH :In that conversation, XY refers to TSJ as a friend, but obviously that doesn't indicate that XY didn't have romantic feelings for TSJ. Presumably there just wasn't a better word that XY felt comfortable using to describe her relationship with TSJ at that point in front of Ah Nian.
Winny Aye:She don't even reveal her true feelings towards Jing to ZX. Why would she reveal her true feelings to A Nian.
I think our interpretations here are more or less the same?
XY has romantic feelings for TSJ, but referred to him as a friend in front of Ah Nian because she didn't want to use a more revealing word or didn't have another word that she was comfortable using in front of Ah Nian.
Winny Aye:So then let's just agree to disagree. Again this is XiaoJing thread.
Okay, we can agree to disagree. Apologies for posting so much about a YaoLiu-related topic in this YaoJing thread. Translating 知己 (and 知音) in the context of Chinese historical dramas is a topic that I find super interesting and I'm always keen to discuss it, but I can understand that it is not on-topic for this YaoJing thread and that the regular contributors to this thread might not be interested in discussing this topic with others who are not primarily YaoJings. I have posted my response to H19279's comment about 知音 in one of the YaoLiu threads and will stop posting about that topic in this thread.
Winny Aye:Xiao Yao sometimes felt Fang Feng Bei wasp like a child who was lonely for too long.
Firstly thank you @AH for your understanding. There were times when I wished for a global LYF analysis thread, sadly it doesn't exist. So until someone with really good intention & the time that it requires to handle it in time, create it, the crossover exchanges can't be made in our repective threads. As we see, we just tend all to agree to disagree :).
- It takes already enough of our time to create our Xiao Jing novel and drama exploration, so let's keep our free time enjoyable and directed to what it's meant to, with our MDL friends.
@Winny Aye , your post was a delight to read <3.
Sharing an extract from our Explo/analysis thread, as we are going to jump in the chapter 11 and it's related episodes! :) :
Chapter 10 Key Points -
Part 1 Analysis:
Key Points:
- Reflection on the Concept of Time: Xiao Liu contemplates the passage of time and its impact on identity. The theme of time is introduced, setting the stage for a narrative that will explore the consequences of the temporal dimension on personal experiences.
- Nostalgia and Loss: The mention of the "countless fragments of the past" suggests a longing for moments gone by. Xiao Liu is haunted by memories, indicating a sense of nostalgia and perhaps a tinge of loss or regret.
Quotes and Extracts:
- "Time is a poison that can't be washed away, a river that can't be crossed."
- This quote captures Xiao Liu's view of time as a destructive force, leaving an indelible mark on individuals.
- "Nostalgia was like a ghost, something Xiao Liu could neither see nor touch."
- The comparison of nostalgia to a ghost emphasizes its intangibility, highlighting its haunting nature.
Analysis: Part 1 establishes the foundational themes of time, nostalgia, and shared experiences. Xiao Liu's introspection hints at a complex relationship with the past and suggests that time has not been entirely kind to her. The use of symbols, such as the river, foreshadows the interconnectedness of characters and the exploration of their collective sorrows.
Part 2 Analysis:
Key Points:
- Introduction of Characters: Zhuan Xu is introduced, revealing his compassionate nature. The bond between Xiao Liu and Zhuan Xu is highlighted, emphasizing the theme of familial relationships.
- Nature as a Metaphor: The natural setting mirrors the characters' emotional states. The storm symbolizes turbulence in their lives, while the sunrise represents hope and renewal.
Quotes and Extracts:
"The storms passed, and the next morning the sun rose in glory."
- The use of the storm and sunrise as metaphors conveys emotional upheavals and subsequent renewal.
"Zhuan Xu would always be there for Xiao Liu, no matter the storms in life."
- This quote reinforces the theme of familial support and enduring connections.
Analysis: Part 2 deepens the exploration of relationships and introduces nature as a symbolic backdrop. The storm and sunrise metaphorically align with the characters' experiences, adding layers to their emotional journey.
Part 3 Analysis:
Key Points:
- Themes of Transformation: Xiao Liu undergoes a physical transformation, highlighting themes of change and identity.
- Father-Daughter Relationship: The emotional reunion with the Grand Emperor brings a sense of belonging and warmth, emphasizing the importance of family ties.
Quotes and Extracts:
"She felt like she had come home."
- Xiao Liu's emotional response to her reunion with the Grand Emperor signifies a deep yearning for familial connections.
"Xiao Liu’s tear tumbled down and the Grand Emperor patted her on the pat, he didn’t comfort her and just let her cry."
- The paternal gesture of comfort solidifies the father-daughter bond, providing emotional depth to the narrative.
Analysis: Part 3 explores themes of transformation and family bonds. Xiao Liu's physical changes mirror her internal journey, and the father-daughter reunion adds emotional weight to the narrative.
Part 4 Analysis:
Key Points:
- Nostalgia and Childhood Memories: Xiao Liu revisits familiar places, triggering childhood memories. The preservation of her doodles symbolizes the enduring nature of certain connections.
- Revelation of Face Forming Flower: The revelation of the Face Forming Flower introduces a mystical element, adding complexity to Xiao Liu's identity.
Quotes and Extracts:
"The pavilion had been renovated many times but these doodles were carefully preserved."
- The preservation of Xiao Liu's doodles symbolizes the lasting impact of childhood and the importance of memories.
"It’s because you have a magical spiritual object in your body called the Face Forming Flower."
- The introduction of the Face Forming Flower adds a mystical layer to Xiao Liu's identity, raising questions about her true self.
Analysis: Part 4 delves into nostalgia, childhood memories, and the revelation of a mystical element. The preservation of symbols and the introduction of the Face Forming Flower deepen the narrative complexity.
Part 5 Analysis:
Key Points:
- Father-Daughter Dynamics: Xiao Liu and the Grand Emperor share a heartwarming moment, reinforcing their father-daughter bond. The Grand Emperor's explanation about Xiao Liu's face-changing adds layers to her identity.
- Resistance to Royal Status: Xiao Liu expresses reluctance towards being a princess, reflecting her desire for a simpler, unfettered life.
Quotes and Extracts:
"Dad, take it out for me! I hate transforming and would rather that I was a freakishly ugly girl than be a fake beauty."
- Xiao Liu's plea for her true identity reflects her inner conflict and desire for authenticity.
"Being a Princess isn’t all bad, at least you can misuse your authority and pick on people."
- The Grand Emperor's playful response adds a touch of humor while highlighting the perks of royal status.
Analysis: Part 5 explores the dynamics of the father-daughter relationship and Xiao Liu's resistance to royal status. The humor injected into the narrative balances the emotional weight of identity revelations.
Part 6 Analysis:
Key Points:
- Sibling Bonds and Farewell: Xiao Liu and Zhuan Xu share a playful exchange, showcasing their sibling bond. Shi Qi's farewell introduces a note of melancholy and hints at future challenges.
Quotes and Extracts:
"Fifteen years. Don’t let another man into your heart."
- Shi Qi's farewell and advice foreshadow future challenges and create a bittersweet atmosphere.
"I’ll wait for you."
- Xiao Liu's commitment to wait for Shi Qi adds an emotional layer to their relationship, hinting at enduring connections.
Analysis: Part 6 emphasizes sibling bonds, farewells, and the introduction of potential challenges. The bittersweet farewell contributes to the narrative's emotional depth.
Part 7 Analysis:
Key Points:
- Shared Sorrow and Connection: Xiao Liu and Zhuan Xu reflect on their shared past, acknowledging the losses they've endured. The reunion is seen as a fulfillment of their grandmother's dying request.
Quotes and Extracts:
"Thank you for letting me reunite with my little sister."
- Zhuan Xu's gratitude acknowledges the significance of their reunion in fulfilling familial bonds.
"Back then the laughter and joy blanketed the entire Cao Yuan Court – and now it’s only the two of us left!"
- The contrast between past joy and present solitude highlights the transformative impact of time on relationships.
Analysis: Part 7 concludes the narrative by underscoring shared sorrow and familial connections. The acknowledgment of the past and the fulfillment of a dying request bring the story full circle.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More in depth + related key points :
Symbolika1:related key points :
(ch.10) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Xiao Yao - Confrontation with Doubts and Fears:
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Analysis Impactful Language and Tone:
The text utilizes emotionally charged language to convey Xiao Liu's intense internal turmoil. Phrases such as "confusion" and "terror" are employed, emphasizing the depth of her emotional struggle. For instance, when Xiao Liu mentions, "The Nine-tailed fox said I wasn’t my daddy’s daughter," the use of "said" hints at the weight of the revelation.
Repetition and Emphasis:
There is a repetition of the idea that the Nine-tailed Fox's words have sown doubts in Xiao Liu's mind. The recurrence of phrases like "he said," especially when discussing her parentage, underscores the persistent nature of these doubts and their impact on her identity.
Symbolic Imagery: Symbolic imagery is present as Xiao Liu grapples with her doubts and fears. The Nine-tailed Fox's words serve as symbolic shadows, casting doubt on her true identity. The use of the term "demon spawn" symbolizes the potential stigma associated with her heritage, adding depth to her fears.
Character Dialogue and Interaction: The dialogue with the Nine-tailed Fox becomes a crucial element in understanding Xiao Liu's internal conflict. The Fox's accusations and Xiao Liu's responses reveal the tension between external perceptions and internal truths. Her interaction with the Fox becomes a battleground for her sense of self.
Internal Monologue: While the text may not explicitly present an internal monologue, Xiao Liu's actions and responses serve as a reflection of her inner thoughts. Her decision to confide in others, such as Tushan Jing and Zhuan Xu, hints at her need for external validation and support to counter the doubts within. And the comfort she find in their presence.
Narrative Structure: The narrative unfolds gradually, allowing readers to witness the escalating tension within Xiao Liu. The revelation about her identity is not abrupt but a gradual process, mirroring the complexity of her emotional journey. The pacing heightens the impact of her fears as they come to the forefront.
Literary Devices:Metaphors are skillfully used to amplify the emotional depth of Xiao Liu's doubts. The idea of doubts being "sown" by the Nine-tailed Fox introduces an agricultural metaphor, likening the doubts to seeds planted that grow into uncertainty. This enriches the narrative by providing a vivid image of doubt taking root.
In summary, the confrontation with doubts and fears in this part is characterized by emotionally charged language, symbolic imagery, and a carefully structured narrative. Xiao Liu's internal conflict is portrayed with nuance, allowing readers to empathize with her struggle to reconcile her identity in the face of unsettling revelations:
As the repeated mention of being the offspring of Qi Yo and Xiao Yao's mother adds a layer of complexity. It introduces an element of shame, deceit, and potential rejection within her familial relationships. Xiao Liu's struggle with these doubts reflects the broader theme of identity crisis.
Xiao Liu's decision to confront head-on and share these doubts rather than ignore them showcases her resilience. Actively grappling with the doubts of who she really is.
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We also covered from the drama the visual co-relation made in ep. 2, and analysed this XiaoJing parallel : https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever-season-2/122339-tong-hua-s-xiaojing-drama-novel-exploration-x1f49c?page=1
Tushan Jing:
Xiao Yao:
Enjoy your further reading, and have a good day:)
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