Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 blabla100:

By the same premise, just because XY ended up with Jing doesn't mean she chose romantic love, she just chose a peaceful life with a companion over the heartbreak that true love would have caused her, giving XL's path.

Thank you very much for sharing this perspective - never thought of it this way but it does make sense.

 blabla100:

She tought of sending it to him one day or was it something she made for herself, as an aknowledge of her deepest feelings that she chose to burry because she knew it's impossible for them to work out? If not, is it possible that she made it  with the intention of sending it because she had a glimpse of hope left? 

I wrote about this in length in my post back in June about Xiao Yao's Journey leading up to the gifting of the crystal globe. It could be, as you say, something she made for herself as an acknowledgment of her love that she could not admit to to anyone else. However, I still feel that it is tied to the sliver of hope she clung to that she would use it one day to appeal to him to let her into his life, even if it was for a short period of time, even though she already knew only heartbreak awaited her at the end of it. At this point in time, she still had no idea that the Lovers bugs will kill her if he died. If she knew, perhaps she would not have hesitated for so long, since it would mean they would be together for her lifetime until he died any way due to the Lovers bugs, so there is no fear of being left alone again at the end of it. However,  if she understood Xiang Liu well, she would also have realised that he would have found a way to ensure she survived when he finally died.

 liddi:

From here on, sometime during the first three years of Cang Xuan's reign, she began the creation of the crystal globe. What prompted this? I believe it is due to an amalgamation of everything leading up to that point - her grandfather's advice for her that sometimes happiness can be attained by giving in; the hope that the very name of the poisonous bug she shared with Xiang Liu meant that he loved her too despite his resolute refusal to respond to any of her questions; summoning the courage for once to reach out and grasp what she wanted in between what she could not (birth and death); the keen realisation that time was slowly running out for her and Xiang Liu, and if she did not do anything now, she might not have a chance to do so. Xiang Liu's refusal to respond when she tested him once more by asking him to go to Bai Li with her and have the bug removed was an added layer of hope that perhaps, perhaps like her, he too was unwilling to remove their bond. 

 liddi:

It is telling then that, despite knowing Xiang Liu would never switch sides, the moment her wedding date was set in the next two months, she had the crystal globe retrieved and sent immediately to Xiang Liu, appealing to him to take her hand and let her be a part of his life. That, more than anything else, tells me that she already knew he would never step into her world, and whatever life she might have with him, would only ever be shortlived, until such time when he died. Yet, she still sent the crystal globe, for once, summoning her courage to actively fight for a chance at a life she wanted with the man she loved, even if it meant being alone again at the end of it. And I believe that her grandfather too, cannot fail to understand exactly what the meaning of the crystal globe and all it entailed was, but he said nothing, perhaps because he too hoped that the happiness she longed for would be within her grasp, even if it meant she would suffer in future as he feared. 

 Meow:

I don't consider Scarlett a sequel. For me personally, this book feels like fan fiction, and not a very successful one at that.

"Scarlett" was an unnecessary attempt to give Scarlett and Rhett a happy ending. Margaret Mitchell's tale should have been left well alone at "Tomorrow is another day", along with all its regrets and what-ifs. 

I don't believe Rhett walked away because he wanted to give her the freedom to be with the man he thought she loved. Rhett gave up because he saw nothing to hold on to anymore, not even Scarlett's 11th hour epiphany that she loved him after all and that Ashley was just an idealised part of her life and vice versa. The loss of their daughter was the final straw, and I cheered when he chose to walk out that door rather than let her go on trampling on his love with her selfish wilfulness. 

Xiang Liu himself stopped their relationship from ever going further because he knew he could not promise her a future, so he ensured she would have a man who could accompany her for life. However, he also knew clearly that deep down inside, the one she truly loved was him. In that regard, I don't feel that it was a choice Xiao Yao actively made. Rather, it was a choice that was made for her, while doors to be with the man she loved were deliberately closed shut.

 blabla100:

She has that first dose of rational and critical thinking to say" not the neck" to XL, especially coming after an altercation about her mom, but also  panic waiting for his next move, because she knew she doesn't have enough strong will not  to let her emotions overpower her reasons for a second time.

Hm. I never had that impression that she was nervous about what he would do next. She was infuriated at first realising that she had been tricked all this while and there was clearly frustration in her reply when he asked why not the neck, but she waited for his response while lying side by side with him. And as he drank from her wrist, she merely felt pleasure and could not peel her eyes away from him, and only closed her eyes when he noticed her watching him. What is notable in this scene too is that the moment she stopped him from drinking from her neck, Fangfeng Bei immediately laid back down - respecting her wishes and the boundaries she drew - and she followed up with that rejection straight away by turning to face him and offer him her wrist as an alternative. This scene has one of the most intimate interactions between them, including her sleeping with him of her own volition for two nights, the second night of which is never accounted for in the novel. And the tenderness with which she protected him in the waking hours - afraid to disrupt his healing, setting poison everywhere to ensure he was safe. 

Xiao Yao abruptly let go of his hand and laid back down, staring blankly at the ceiling.

After some time, she finally asked, “Who exactly are you?”

“Who do you want me to be?” Fangfeng Bei’s voice was chilly.

Xiao Yao remained silent for a long while before she retorted, “You can be whomever you please!”

Fangfeng Bei propped himself up slightly and slowly lowered his head. Just as his lips were about to touch her neck, Xiao Yao blocked him with her hand. “No!” His lips ended up pressing against her palm.

Fangfeng Bei immediately laid back down. Xiao Yao turned to her side and extended her wrist to him. “Bite here.”

“Why not there?" Fangfeng Bei’s expression was extremely cold.

Xiao Yao started to miss the easy going, humorous rogue Fangfeng Bei. “What do you think? Fangfeng Bei!”

Fangfeng Bei was silent for a moment then he held Xiao Yao’s wrist and pierced it with his sharp fangs. This was the first time Xiao Yao saw him sucking her blood with her own eyes. She felt no pain, only a shiver of pleasure.

Xiao Yao intently watched Fangfeng Bei but when he glanced at her, she immediately closed her eyes docilely. She was frustrated! She was still scared of him after all!

After some time, Xiao Yao started to feel a little dizzy but said nothing. This was Xuan Yuan City, he had to heal as quickly as possible!

-- Vol 1 Ch17

 blabla100:

I also believe that's the meaning behind the laughting doll at the end that has her eyes closed, XL way of saying that only by having her eyes closed and not knowing the truth, XY will be able to settle down and be happy with Jing. She once said that happiness and unhappiness boils down to comparison, had she known about XL's feelings, I don't believe she would have been able to move on with jing. 

In the novel, the impish grin on the doll was what finally made Xiao Yao burst out laughing for the first time after she learnt of Xiang Liu's death, a first step to help her move on from her grief. Your theory why the doll was changed to a sleeping one in the drama makes a lot of sense, since it has become symbolic of Xiang Liu's own wishes to never let her know so that she would be able to lead a new life free from burdens or guilt. And that makes my heart ache all over again.

 blabla100:

She was never able to say no to XL. 

I am not as sure that she would never reject Xiang Liu. She stopped him from drinking from her neck, but I agree that she immediately followed up with an alternative. Even when they parted on such bad terms at Qingshui Town after taking her away from her wedding, the next time she saw him, she could not help behaving tenderly, intimately with him. She did say she did not want to have a meal with him, but capitulated very quickly when he reminded her who he really was (though that certainly did not take much convincing or coercion on his part). The dynamics between them are starkly different from her and her other suitors. She always strove to please him, while she and Cang Xuan were more on equal footing, and her relationship with Jing was such that Jing always tried to please her. 

As for running away with Fangfeng Bei, I don't know that she would really have early on when he first asked the question in a deceptively flippant tone. However, I have to wonder whether she looked back in hindsight after confirming that they are both one and the same, and wished that she had accepted the offer when he first made it - an offer that was made for the first and last time. I believe she would have.

 Rain_83223:

This reply by @ZYHLJ on page 499 captures my sentiment pretty well:

Whoa! Are you really reading the entire thread? That's quite a feat.

 Rain_83223:

XY is physically alive, but disturbingly lifeless. Does she even have anything worth living or striving for? In a very creepy way, it's almost as if life is so boring to her that she needs a companion to pass the time before she can finally arrive at death!

Yep. The lack of growth in this character was frustrating. The QingShui Town set-up was solid with so much potential for her to grow, but the minute she put a skirt on she became defined by her past experiences and abandonement fear. She did nothing worhtwhile for the entirety of the novel (helping CX? His whole arc was so terribly written and her contribution to it was a joke. Lucrezia Borgias, she aint). Even her medical studies was like some kind of after thought. In the end she ended up exactly where she begins; with the companion to go through life together because she was afraid of being alone. She's young, but she lived like an old person waiting for death. In modern parlance - she is existing, but not thriving. 

 Rain_83223:

You can argue that the story was also about XY's character growth. But personally I don't see much growth. In the end, she still settled for someone who will, for the foreseeable future, never put her in a situation to face her fears (like avoidance).

Whatever growth there was, was so little that if you blink, you'd missed it. LOL. What's worse is that she knows she have issues, and yet, did nothing to really address and overcome it. She just look for a Jing-size shape to shove into the black hole that was her fear of abandonement and called it a day. 

You know what happened when you feared or feel anxious about something? Your choices become limted by your fears. The thing that you fear essentially becomes the barriers to any choices you have - it's the invisible cage that you get stuck in. So for XY,  when it comes to romantic relationship, Jing was the only suitable choice given her fear of abandonment. 

Do you know what else happened when your fears ruled you? You'll look for excuses as to why you couldn't do something that you fear. XY had a whole list of excuses - my blood have decided for me; it's because of CX and grandpa; it's because of X, Y and Z. And of course, it's because of XL. XL didn't love me. XL didn't give me a choice. She was so eager to seige any excuses as to why she and XL couldn't work out that she came across like a real idiot with some seriously questionable behaviour. Where there's a will, there's a way. Otherwise, you'll look for excuses.

There will always be external and internal barriers to what you want. But if you can't even overcome your internal barriers, then the external barriers becomes convenience excuses. And XY couldn't even admit to who she wants to spend her life with. You can explained this anyway you want, but the bottom line is that she couldn't even admit it to this straightforward, clear thing. And this was while under hynosis - if even her subconscious is resisting that just tells you how strong her fear and level of avoidance was.

If this was truly the author's intention, then

 Rain_83223:

As mentioned before, Tong Hua seems to hold the view that while love is valuable, it isn't everything in life. Life consists of several other aspects that are just as valuable as love. If this is one of the messages that she intended to convey, then the very premise of this story serves to undermine it. The central conflict, which focuses entirely on XY finding a lifelong (romantic) companion as if it were the most important thing in her life and something she had to do, is in and of itself contrary to that idea.

This sounded good in theory, but the way she wrote the story didn't really convey it, IMO. 

In the novel, I think XL lived up to this ideal -he loved XY, but she was not the be all and end all of his life and he stuck to his values rather than compromised his beliefs for love. CX's motivation was to protect XY and in the end he let go of XY, but his desire to be a good Emperor was still linked to her.  With Jing and XY, their motivations were driven so much by other things rather than a genuine understanding of what it means to be a responsible adult with a rich life. 

Jing's worth had been tied to XY so his motivation was very much about that. Whereas for XY, her fears had come to define her so her motivation was about avoiding facing her fear rather than actively seeking love or any other meanings for living. And if the author wanted us to believe that XL made the unilateral decision and XY didn't have a choice in their relationship, then that is even worse. I say that it's a coped out and a disservice to her female lead. Because XY essentially didn't realize anything since she had no actual choice anyway. No choice so no responsibility. A passive lump that things happened to.

If the author want to sell me this meassage then she didn't do a very good job, what with the way she chose to write the female lead. So much avoidance, hiding, poor judgement and decision making. All the way to the end of the story. 

As for the drama. The writing for the characters was even worse. I did not think it was possible, but I was wrong :-).

*Some not so flattering opinions of the drama and the story ahead.                

              I have not been around for a while. Got too busy and lost interest in this series. Slowly making my way through Season 2 and it's a real slog. Just judging it on it's own rather then compared the drama to the novel, it's still very bad. Particularly Season 2 and the writing choices for the characters. What happened when you stop being emotionally invested? Your brain kicked in and the glaring issues in the story, the characters and the relationships danced in front of you and refused to let you ignored them. Looks like my brain decided that it won't stay parked on another continent anymore and want to come home :-). 

               Season 1 is probably a 7, Season 2 is a 3. You know that you're pretty done with the story/world of the story when scenes that are supposed to be hearbreaking and emotional, you find funny because they are so overwrought - probably because you find these characters ridiculous and they've created their own hell due to their god-awful judgement and choices and immaturity. Recommending for therapy for the lot of them :-).

               Watched Avenue X's review and agreed with pretty much everything. The story line is already not strong. It's basically a merry-go-round of relationships since CX's arc was poorly plotted and written. XY is a poop of a FL.  The woe is me routine got old by this stage. When she was whining about how her mother would leave her, but TSJ would never, my eyes damn near rolled to the back of my head. Used that diamond encrusted spoon you're sucking on to buy some perspective and maturity. 

The various relationships are issues riddled because XY is a poop of a character and she's involved in all three relationships. You are not going to get a healthy relationship when one of the participant is a mess and a half. In this case, we got 3/4 participants being all kind of messed up. The LY's romance had me screaming for XL to "abort, abort! Cut your losses and run". 

               Maybe if they have leaned into how messed up these people and relationships are, it would have made for a compelling watch. As it it, they are trying to sell us some kind of healing story with a side of poor XY, she suffered so much, please feel sorry for her and excused her poopness. *Sigh* If it was released last year, I probably would have go along with it, but now....nope. Please go away and take your issues with you.

 plor20:

The portrayal of XL dying with the tear pearl is perhaps the most significant misstep. Out of all the ways to depict his final moments, focusing on his love for XY undermines his resolute nature. XL is a character content with the moments they shared, and his end should have evoked heroism

I hated this detailed when the leaked script was known months ago and I HATE IT now. It's a disservice to the character to reduce him to this relationship. It's even worse when drama XY is such an unlikeable flake that I seriously questioned his jugdgement on being so hung up on her. Poor thing got catfished. 

 plor20:

In essence, the drama's added scenes and dialogue not only skewed XL's character but also failed to adhere to the "show, don't tell" principle, ultimately reducing a richly layered character into a more simplistic and less compelling version of himself. The only saving grace was that Tan Jianci slay the portryal.

I have massive problems with the way they chose to write all the leads, but particularly XL. The novel already has its issues, but XL was probably the most consitently written character and most memorable thing about it. 

The drama seems to have apply a idol romantic drama lens over the story and its characters so some of the more interesting aspects to these character got stripped away. XY came across as dumb and desperate. Poor CX - he lost his kingly's bearing and dignity and came across craze craze. Even Jing - he looked so lost and confused in some scenes that I felt sorry for him. XL fared the best, but even he didn't escape the romance idol drama filter. 

My snowflake, white lotus, untouched by the mortal world 9-heads Hydra had been dragged down into the mud and made common by focusing on his love for XY. The implication that he was "forced"/reluctance to give up on his relationship with XY, all the lingering bullshit damn near killed his character. I want my love strongly, but clear-headed and resolute Hydra back. It didn't helped that they wrote LY as more one-sided. Wonderful, devoted second male leads who are honourable and sacrified for the FL are not uncommon - see last year The Longest Promise for a really lovely example. But XL was different and they took what made him different and spat all over it. This may very well be the author's intention with the novel. In that case, she can keep it. I'll stick to my white lotus interpretation, thank you very much. 

TJC's acting stayed solid. Can't say the same for YZ's acting choices in some of the dramatic scenes. What's with the screaming and wailing? The confrontation between XY and CX was painfully hilarious to sit through. ZWY tried to preserve CX's dignity, but once things turned ridiculous his acting started to look out of place.

Forgot to add that I agree with your entire post :-).

 plor20:

**How Novel XL and Drama XL Differ, and How These Changes Impacted His Narrative**

Thank you for sharing! I love how you described Novel Xiang Liu, beautifully encapsulating the essence of his character.

 plor20:

Novel XL stays true to his mythical counterpart from *The Classics of the Mountains and Seas*. Everywhere he goes, he creates valleys and gorges where evergreens sprout. Despite the chaos he brings, life follows him shortly after.

May I know where it says life grows in the valleys and gorges he created? What I read is that water sources were formed such as ponds or streams, but the water was disgusting, bitter and had an unpleasant odour such that even wild animals could not bear to be nearby.

Consolidating both you and @HeadintheClouds issues with Drama Xiang Liu...

 plor20:

However, the way the drama portrayed XL’s responsibilities and love through added scenes, unnecessary dialogue, and several changes to his relationship with XY resulted in a character who leaned heavily lovelorn and pitiful—unlike the more complex depiction in the novel.

 HeadInTheClouds:

The implication that he was "forced"/reluctance to give up on his relationship with XY, all the lingering bullshit damn near killed his character.

That's interesting, because I don't see drama Xiang Liu as a lovesick, pitiful fool, or one who was reluctant to give up a future with Xiao Yao. Which part gave both of you this impression?

I do see some issues with the drama's portrayal of him, but to be honest, some of the more emotional sides of Xiang Liu is actually TJC's interpretation. I recall a recent interview where he said after watching the drama, he felt that he should have emoted even more than he did in the drama, so...

Practically everywhere in the leaked script describes him as lonely or sad. I don't get that impression at all from TJC's portrayal. Rather, I see him imbue Xiang Liu with nuanced emotions, which I don't really have a problem seeing, because we only see them when he is alone, and to me, I never felt that he was portrayed as pathetic during those scenes. Rather, I feel that this is a Xiang Liu who despite his very understandable sadness, was calm, at peace and unwavering with his decisions, genuinely happy for her. He misses her, and there is a tangible air of loneliness sometimes, but I understand that part of it. To be lacking in these emotions feels even more unnatural, knowing the extent of his sacrifice and love.

Perhaps for me, because I read the leaked script first, I was far more concerned about the glaring issues with certain scenes, so I was extremely gratified to see that almost every scene that Xiang Liu was in delivered far far better than I hoped in S2. In particular, the pearl scene - I can't tell you just how relieved I was to have seen TJC's interpretation - doing away with the anger and jealousy, replacing it with acceptance and also quiet peace, knowing that that relationship is progressing as he hoped it would. Likewise the affectionate "Or else", followed by the poignant ones after that during the preparation of the laughing doll, instead of what I initially felt was someone who kept harping on her refusing to let him into her dreams. Seeing her off from Qingshui Town. The little tender smile he gave when she finally smiled after his tall tales. 

The added scenes work well for me for the most part. The sending off of Mao Qiu - prompted by TJC no less. Him lying on her bed in Qingshui Town, sensing her missing him, and his words " A kind of feeling, puts two people in idle sadness" emphasising YaoLiu's mutual love. The red robes during the 7-day wait. The exchange between him and Ru Shou before he died.

What did not work as well for me was what became of the pearl. This is one of the rare instances where the scenario in the leaked script actually worked far better. I did not like that he used the last of his spiritual power to lift the pearl up and gazed at it before it finally transformed back into tears that fell into his eye. I would have preferred the way the scene was originally written, with the pearl transformed into a string of tears that fell on his face when his body finally collapsed. 

Another instance where the script actually worked better was the scene in her bedchambers. The drama made him seem needy (and her unnecessarily harsh) which I really hated. In the script, he was colder and less needy, though Xiao Yao did not fare much better from the drama itself.

That being said, the last 30 mins of the drama remains a travesty that I refuse to revisit.

Liddi, I will have to get back with you about the scenes that didn't work for me. Not JC interpretation of XL, but how the scene was written. 

As for the classics translation, I am using the 1930's Penguin version so I think there may have been some serious mistranslation. (ಥ﹏ಥ) I will have to go find the actual quote for you.