Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

@MTH123

Thank you so much for sharing the parallels you observed between Chi Chen and Xiang Liu. 

 MTH123:

(I was especially struck by this, because they were more filial than even most close family members.) They were willing to die for them, even when they didn’t have to (IMO). Because of this, both of them were headed towards a tragic ending in Tong Hua's storytelling.

I love this observation. In a world where demons are distrusted and looked down upon by the deity tribes, their unwavering loyalty, honour and integrity rivals, if not outshines those who lay claim to a superior form than theirs. However, can Xiang Liu's loyalty to Hong Jiang and the Shen Nong army be considered as being filial to his godfather? I don't quite see it that way, but rather one that stemmed from a debt of gratitude that evolved into something far more, not just for Hong Jiang but for the comrades, deceased and living whom he can neither forget nor abandon. He did not subscribe to their cause - he himself told Xiao Yao that Hong Jiang was a pathetic fool, leading a bunch of fools, doing pathetic things - and yet he would give his life for them, lay down his life with them. Xiao Yao was right when she called him the most pathetic fool of all, because he had no vested interest in their futile, lost cause, their country not his own, but he would still fight for them, even exacting a deal to have them interred in the place they longed for but could not return to in life, while he himself disintegrated into a pool of black blood, leaving no other trace behind. 

 MTH123:

For me, much worse was that for many decades, he didn’t tell XY his suspicions about being set up by his grandmother, his brother and Yi Ying. That was the one thing that I disliked the most about TSJ. He owed XY an explanation, and he knew it. He could have saved her (and himself) a lot of pain

Very well said. There was something inherently broken about their communication during that years, up to the time when he finally told her and they worked to bring Hou and Yi Ying down. Did he not suspect, or was it due to shame, feeling that he had lost any right to justify himself to her, and she would no longer be willing to hear what he had to say. Either way, he wasted so many unnecessary years which could possibly have been prevented had he been more upfront with his grandmother from the start, and with Xiao Yao.

As for S2, I hold very little hope that the final version restores what was rightfully Xiang Liu's, and choose not to whitewash Cang Xuan, though I continue to pray for a miracle. Based on the change in dialogue between little Cang Xuan and Xiao Yao (what was originally them pledging to marry each other was changed to being siblings forever), my instinct tells me that the drama is diluting any romantic bond Xiao Yao might be seen to have with anyone other than the official pairing. I just hope that the drama proves me wrong.

 blabla100:

@kokuto

"However, don't blame me for deceiving you, you were the one who did not ask!"

Then I guess this part highlights XL's "problem". Deceiving her that he doesn't care, deceiving her that he always helped her expecting something în return, deceiving her that she was always a transaction to him.

It's only a "problem" for XL, if you think he should be selfish and do what he wants instead of listening to XY and giving her what she wanted.  She rejected him, in part, for reasons he understood well -- he was the enemy of her family.  XL did those things to keep from becoming the man of her dreams.

Has anyone seen the Yaoliu couple bracelet from Tencent, it says two way secret love, love each other, long love sickness

@bblabla100 

Does this board have a poll function?

It would be interesting to see where the posters here sit with regards to the question of XL's fate at the start of the story. It has been interesting reading wveryone opinions and why they think the way they do.

The first time I read the novel, I also thought that he had decided even before he met XY that he is going to die, but then I shifted and thought that it's possible that this wasn't the case. No concrete reason for the change just about being open to another possibility. Regardless of where we sits on this matter, I think we can all agreed that he did contemplate a life with XY be it few hundreds years or "forever", but changed his mind during the course of the story. 

Now when did he change his mind and why did he change are other questions we can poll on. 

 blabla100:

@kokuto

"XL did those things to keep from becoming the man of her dreams." 

Yes, I totally agree, yet that is not to say that he wanted to become the man of her dreams to begin with, I don't belive he ever wanted that.  Also this also indicates that he is aware that if not for him deceiving her, he has the power of being the man of her dreams. 

Even if, let's say I accept the fact that maybe sometime în the beginning he dared to wish for more from her, everything changed after the beach scene, so whatever came after was definetely not him trying to open a door for her, on the contrary, she was the one who on a few ocasions tried to have that door (re) open. 

You don't believe XL wanted XY to love him and for them to be together / married?

Because of the PLB, he knows he is / can be the man of her dreams.  He knows she loves him.  But he also knows she's afraid to commit to him because they are on opposites sides.  And yes, I agree, the beach scene is her rejection of him and denial of their love.

I'm not sure I said that.  But I don't think XL tried to open that door again, unless she DID make an overture.  Like the poison crystal ball, which I think we talked about before, and which once again, I believe I see differently from many.  I think he broke up her marriage to Feng Long because of that overture, and even asked if who (i.e. him)  she wanted to spend her life with.  The way she reacted and her inability to answer, told him she still wasn't going to commit consciously to him.  Ironically, she wasn't going to give up CX for him -- though she demanded her lover give up everything for her.

Again, despite people wanting to label XL a toxic abuser, he let her dictate their relationship.  Even if he knew how she felt, he did as she asked.

 windiaaa041293:

Has anyone seen the Yaoliu couple bracelet from Tencent, it says two way secret love, love each other, long love sickness

Yes. Meanwhile, the one with Jing has something about music and beautiful women.

 AH :

My sense is that XL always planned to die with Gong Gong and his comrades. He fought with them for centuries and knew that they all wanted to die on the battlefield. IMO, the only way for XL and the rest of them to survive would be if they miraculously managed to defeat Xuan Yuan and restore Sheng Nong. At certain points in the novel the chances of that happening are very slim. At other points the chances are basically "none".

I feel like, in some ways, it's even more settled in the drama than in the novel, as they moved XL's line about dying on the battlefield being the best death from the second half of the story (in the novel) to the first half (in the drama), when XL hadn't found out about XY's true identity yet.

 We disagreed on this point before.  At the end of the book, they were in an impossible situation, and the army decided to die all together on the battlefield.  At the beginning of the book, dying on the battlefield could be done piecemeal, and the situation wasn't settled or impossible.  Who knows what would have happened if Hong Jiang had died in Chapter 3.  XL and the rest of the army could have made different decisions, especially if he was given a reason, i.e. marrying XY.

 AH :

I don't see why not. There was no sign that the Sheng Nong remnant army's fight would end any time soon. He had already fought with them for 300 years, and after XL met XY they lasted for another ~120 years. The equation changed when ZX was able to quickly take control of Gao Xing, cutting off the Sheng Nong remnant army's supplies and other support while simultaneously expanding Xuan Yuan's forces. ZX also married Xing Yue and moved the kingdom's capital to Sheng Nong Mountain. Both of those moves solidified the status quo (where Sheng Nong was subsumed by Xuan Yuan).

Although the time for the final battle might have come earlier than expected, XL still did what I believe he always planned to do: he broke the connection between himself and XY at the last minute to ensure that she would not die when he lost his final life. Losing his other lives didn't seem to have any affect on XY, so there was a pretty substantial safety net.

I don't think he knew when he took the PLB that he could break the connection.  In fact, IIRC, he was told he could not, without XY dying.  Plus, he already knew that XY feared abandonment, and his loss would hurt her deeply.  He wouldn't have put her through that.

 AH :

XL pretty much gets this answer in chapter 32, and XY makes a few other bids throughout the second half of the story. But XL doesn't accept any of them. I'm not convinced that XL would have chosen a different ending even if XY had been more explicit with her bids (e.g., by coming right out and saying that she loved him and wanted to run away with him).

He doesn't accept any of them, because she won't admit / commit.  She won't give up CX.  Sadly, had she been serious,  when he let slip his wistful, 'give up being a Princess and roam the world with me,' and he carried through, they could have a wonderful life together.

 AH :

I can see why you're saying this, but I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. I don't see XY choosing to protect CX as necessarily choosing to let XL die. XL was fighting Xuan Yuan since CX was a child. If XY had let CX die, XL would still go on fighting Xuan Yuan long afterwards. He'd most likely still end up dying the same way. Especially if CX had been killed before becoming the Black Emperor.

XY protects CX, but she also protects XL, to the extent that she can. She does what she can to try and make sure that neither of them die. Even at the very end she still tries to convince both CX and XL to make choices that will allow XL to live. It was all futile not because XY didn't try hard enough, but because XL had made his choice and refused to change it.

I disagree.  The situation with the resistance army, XL and Hong Jiang was at an endless stalemate. It was CX becoming emperor, and absorbing Haolin, that changed matters and swung things in Xiyan's favor.  XL correctly assessed, that CX was the threat that would end the stalemate, and his life.

I agree, that XY tried to protect both CX and XL.  However, at no point did she throw herself between CX and XL to save XL's life.

 AH :

When XY begs CX to spare XL's life in chapter 50, he agrees that if XL stopped, he would let XL go. That promise doesn't mean much, because XL was never going to stop, but it shows that XY fought to give him an out until the very end.

Based on what liddi said about the leaked S2 script, the drama will be even more explicit. XL will be offered a way out during the final battle. And he will refuse it.

It doesn't mean much, because it's nothing but ASKING.  She didn't ASK XL not to stick his claws into CX.  She ran down there and jumped between them.  She didn't beg XL not to shoot CX, twice, she physically put herself between them, twice.  If XY wanted to save XL, she'd have marched her butt down to that kill ground and put herself between him and thousands of arrows.  That would be her protecting both of them equally.  But she didn't.

If CX was serious about saving XL's life, which I don't think he was, nor would I be in the same situation, he'd have sent XY down there to make that final offer.  But he didn't.