I agree that for XY to truly heal, she needs to be comfortable with her emotions and communicate openly. She needs to stop lying, especially to herself.plor20:
Yes, absolutely. People can only be in a healthy relationship if they are comfortable and happy being by themselves. Love yourself first, and all that.
Being alone and being lonely are two completely different things. One can be extremely lonely while being in a relationship. That's more common than we can imagine. XY has never truly healed, so she'll just continue to be the mess she is, which is a fitting ending for a character who lacks self-awareness so much.
I also think that a more satisfactory ending (and a very modern one for such a "strong female character" such as XY) would be for her to deal with her issues in a way that she would be comfortable enough to be by herself. Not forever, mind you, but long enough for some time to pass and the main plot of LYF becomes like a distant dream or something.
Unfortunately, the ending we got is one that relies heavily on many clichés in order to avoid "the tragedy".
Considering that XY and Jing end up in a similar setup as to how they met at the beginning of the story is itself tragic, albeit subtly, with XL and CX bearing the most tragic elements.
Exactly this.
Being alone and feeling loneliness are two separate things. The former is a physical state, while the latter is an emotional/psychological state. A person can be alone and feel perfectly happy, loved, and trusting. Loneliness can manifest even in a room filled with people. Throughout the story, XY never quite overcomes her sense of loneliness, and in her conclusion, I don't think she ever did.
Fully agree with this point.
@AH, I remember I read a post by you lately saying that her life as WXL was ok, lot of freedom etc but I I fail to find it. Maybe it was posted some page ahead. I was about to respond at that time to add some hidden information of her life in QS town. But it did not happen at that time
On the surface, WXL's life in QS town looked very normal, peaceful and she seemed to be happy. That was a life where she shielded her fear, her trauma of "I am just someone who has been discarded. I have no ability to protect myself, I have no one to rely on, I have nowhere to go" behind a hard shell around her heart. Althought she knew who she was but she did not have her own face and always stayed alert because if she made mistake, she might lost her life. Chapter 1 gave a peaceful piture of her life which surrounded by her housemate and later YSQ joined. However the title of the chapter - life is short like a temporary stay which was extracted from a poem " Ride chariot from the upper East Gate . This poem is written in the form of a lyrical protagonist who expressed his heart directly, expressing the sad state of mind of some intellectuals who lived well but could not find a way out politically during the great turmoil of the late Eastern Han Dynasty. To adapt it in the chapter, it implied that WXL seemed to live well but she also stucked in her own fear. In the view of the poet, he rode the chariot out of the city and what he saw and felt was the sorrow atmosphere, cementary with a lot of graves. He felt the life was short and uncertain. Many people tried to be immortal by taking drug, special food but ended up being poisoned by such treatment. Thus, the poet decided to ignore, taking wine to avoid thinking of the situation and live a simple life. I think it resonated with WXL's attitude.
In addition, althought she had housemate, but she could not share her sorrow her worry with them. They were weaker than her and depended on her. She had to take the leader role whenever they coped with difficulties. The life was so boring. There was a scene in chapter 3 or 4 when everyone was talking in the common room, WXL stayed inside her room, watching XL in the mirror and laughted. She basically didn't have common with other. When she was injured and YSQ took care of her. She talked a lot with YSQ but he just stayed silence. Because he could not understand her difficulty and her experience. Later, when she lived by A Nian, Xing Yue, she still felt lonely althought they were her friends, her family (Chapter 26, 29). They did not have patience to listen to her talk, her concern. I think one of the reason XY treasured Jing is that he was patient to listen to her talk. She cherished the memory that they stayed up late, talking in the hut in Cao Ao Crest (Chapter 28?).
P/S: the poem for chapter 1.
translation according to https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/157714/from-nineteen-ancient-poems
Horse cart skirrs through the Upper East Gate
to the north beyond the city walls gaze
at the graves White poplars rustle xiao
xiao pine cypress line the wide road
Dead arranged under the trees ceremony
darkening darkening the long twilight
Hidden sleep beneath the Yellow Springs
on and on for ten centuries to never wake
Wave after wave endless yin-yang changes
allotted years like morning dew
Our life is like a brief visitation can’t
approach the longevity of metal stone
Ten thousand ages of partings and farewells
the virtuous the sages no one lasts
Take elixirs to seek divine immortality so
many harmed by messed up concoctions
Nothing like drinking good spirits while
dressed up in diaphanous silk clothes
-----------
驅車上東門 Ride chariot toward eatern gate (unknown author)
驅車上東門，I drive my chariot to the upper east gate,
遙望郭北墓。and gaze at the tombs beyond the northern city wall.
白楊何蕭蕭，How desolate the white poplars are.
松柏夾廣路。The pines and cypress lined out down the road,
下有陳死人，and below are the ancient dead.
杳杳即長暮。It’s deepest black in their endless night,
潛寐黃泉下， as they sleep submerged in the yellow fountains.
千載永不寤。They will never wake in a thousand years,
浩浩陰陽移，through vast changes in forces positive and negative forces.
年命如朝露。The years fate grants us are but morning dew.
人生忽如寄，The life of men is but a brief residence,
壽無金石固。Long life has not the certainty of metal and stone.
萬歲更相送，as another ten thousand years are sent on their way,
賢聖莫能度。Of the wise and the sage, there are none who can hold it back.
服食求神仙， In medicine and food, some seek immortality,
多為藥所誤。 but in this way many end up poisoned.
不如飲美酒。 Far better to drink exquisite wines.
被服紈與素。and be clothed in plain white silk.
Translation was taken from 驅車上東門 Translation - I Ride My Chariot From the Upper East Gate | East Asia Student
Being alone and feeling loneliness are two separate things.
Loneliness can manifest even in a room filled with people.
You are preaching to the choir here. ^^ I am an introvert, love my alone time (and prefer to have lots of it - more time for reading!), and am the type of person who prefers my own company to the company of most people outside a very small circle of my favourite people (and even for those people I prefer to socialize with them in small doses with solo time breaks to recharge).
XY's line about preferring to be alone rather than spending time with people she doesn't like resonated strongly with me.
A person can be alone and feel perfectly happy, loved, and trusting.
Throughout the story, XY never quite overcomes her sense of loneliness, and in her conclusion, I don't think she ever did.
I agree with this if "alone" means "not in a romantic relationship", "living a lifestyle where one is not constantly in the company of others", or "temporarily not in the company of other people from time to time".
Like I said above, I love my alone time and the freedom of solo travel / life experiences. The number of times I've up and moved to a different country for school or work on my own, or travelled solo internationally, is in the double digits. They were all invaluable experiences.
And I was very fortunate, growing up, to know several older women who were family or family friends that chose non-traditional lifestyles. So I always had role models in my life that proved that women didn't need to be married or in some kind of romantic relationship in order to be happy and fulfilled.
But I do not agree with this for most people (and certainly not for XY) if "alone" means "has no genuine friends, family or romantic partner in their life at all" or "shut off from all meaningful social interaction permanently or for a very long period of time" (e.g., more or less what becoming the Royal Mother would have entailed).
And I think personality and a person's level of introverted vs. extraverted-ness should also be taken into account.
XY is a talker, which is not something I identify with. Although she prefers being alone over being with people she doesn't like, she prefers having company that she does like over being alone most of the time if not all of the time. And when she is alone (as in, not accompanied by someone whose companionship she likes), she often feels lonely and she hates that feeling.
I do think part of XY's personal growth could / should involve her learning to enjoy her own company more, so that she does not feel so lonely on occasions when she does not have company.
But I don't think XY should be expected to learn to be happy in a lifestyle where she ends up alone... as in "has no one (no friend, family, lover, or demon general) in her life at all that she can talk to + build some kind of genuine connection / relationship with". That's a hugely important part of the human experience for almost all people and is especially important for certain personality types.
And given XY's personality, I think learning how to build and maintain at least one healthy long-term relationship (which doesn't necessarily have to be romantic), and ideally multiple strong long-term relationships, is more likely to bring her long-term happiness than her getting over her fear of loneliness and ending up alone (as in not having anyone in her life that she shares a real connection with).
Does that mean that I think that XY could only be happy if she had a companion (e.g., TSJ) at the end of the novel? No. In theory, XY could leave everyone behind to wander the world and start out alone, and then she could find new people to build a genuine connection with. But that's a very difficult thing to do. A true Zhi Yin is hard to find, and meeting a person with whom you can build a similarly meaningful relationship is rare and certainly not guaranteed.
So I get why Tong Hua had XY leave with TSJ, Miao Pu and Left Ear, even though TSJ and XY still had lots of issues to work through internally and in their relationship. Chapter 33 and Chapter 51 give me hope that they might be able to improve and build a healthier relationship over time.
I agree that for XY to truly heal, she needs to be comfortable with her emotions and communicate openly. She needs to stop lying, especially to herself.
Yep, yep.
Considering that XY and Jing end up in a similar setup as to how they met at the beginning of the story is itself tragic, albeit subtly
I feel like I'm missing something here. Can you elaborate?
I always wondered why she never visited her Qingshui town family because when she was with them, she wasn't actually lonely.
Tong Hua sort of touched on this a bit in chapter 32.
-----
Chapter 32:
“Lao Mu, Ma Zi, Chun Tao, how are they……..”
“They are all gone, I’m the only one left.”
Xiao Yao was silent for a long time before asking, “Lao Mu…..how was he when he passed?”
“Lao Mu had no children of his own but Ma Zi and Chuan Zi treated him like their own father. They took care of him until he was old no worse than a real son would have done. Chun Tao and I were also good daughter-in-laws and we took care of Lao Mu until he passed with a smile on his face.”
Xiao Yao smiled, she didn’t make an effort to find out not because she didn’t care, but because she cared too much. Now she knew they lived a good life it was like a dam had broken.
I personally still belive that what TH meant by "not a tragic ending" is precisely the fact that XY didn't end up following XL. She would have been doomed, at least that's what I make of "choosing between the right person and the one you love".blabla100:
I do agree that this is an additional way of understanding "not a tragic ending". If I remember correctly, when she started LYF, Tong Hua promised that it wasn't going to have a tragic ending as Once Promised was already a tragedy what with everyone dead at the end. The parallel between XL/XY and XY's parents was made explicitly clear in LYF. If XY had followed XL then they would have been doomed to the same tragic fate as her parents.
So it's not a tragedy because she didn't end up in the same fate as her mother. And it's not a tragedy because she got the companion that she wanted, but it's not a fully happy ending because he's not the one that she loves one-heartedly and wants to spend the rest of her life with the most.
Not pursuing the one she loves was mostly because XL didn't allow her, but then again that's just one more thing XL did for her.
XL certainly played a role in preventing a full tragic fate ala her parents.
I personally still belive that what TH meant by "not a tragic ending" is precisely the fact that XY didn't end up following XL. She would have been doomed, at least that's what I make of "choosing between the right person and the one you love". Obviously the right person was Jing, even XL said so în the epilogue and by elimination, that puts XL as the one she loves, obvious because of the bugs too, but clearly not as the right choice. All of the women în XY's life ended up either dead either living a long lonely life because they chose the men they love and all of them had different agenda and bigger goals and responsabilities than living a simple life with their women, XL included. Not pursuing the one she loves was mostly because XL didn't allow her, but then again that's just one more thing XL did for her. TH with LYF does push the idea that love is not everything in life, hence why XY ended up with Jing.
TH, might have initially intended a narrative distinct from her previous works, and might not personally interpret LYF as a tradegy. However, delving into Aristotle's philosophy on tragedy, I find that LYF emphasized key elements such as catharsis (XL death and CX madness), the XY's tragic flaws (hamartia), and the reversal of fortune that manifested in CX losing XY again (peripeteia). These aspects is evident that, despite TH intentions, the work inherently embodies a tragedy.
She would have been doomed, at least that's what I make of "choosing between the right person and the one you love". Obviously the right person was Jing, even XL said so în the epilogue and by elimination, that puts XL as the one she loves, obvious because of the bugs too, but clearly not as the right choice.
I think that might fall into the 'not a tragedy category. But I'm sorry, there is no universe where Jing is the right person. ;p
Koala's translation has XL saying the "right man for you", but I think a more accurate translation would be "a lover you wished for."
一个 如意 情郎
Yīgè rúyì qíngláng
So it wasn't who XL thought was right for her (cause as he said repeatedly, Jing was useless), but it was who XY told him she would marry. Had XY wished for Beloved Ru Shuo, then XL would have arranged that.
There are more things in life that matters beside romantic love.
Except, that's the 'happy ending' for XY and Jing that we're fed on the surface level of the novel. What mattered more to XY's story than romantic love, once she became a woman? XY had spent a good portion of the book mooning over two men romantically, and ended up with one of them. And she STILL is going to end up doomed, as you say, living a long lonely life, because the loser she ended up with got depowered and has a substantially shortened lifespan, of what, 100 years?
If XY had not rejected XL on the beach, and nothing is changed in the book (though I believe it would actually have changed XL's future and choices drastically), then she'd have spent about the same amount of time (100 years) with the man she loved, before losing him.
Honestly, at this point, I'm starting to think Tong Hua just wanted to screw XY over. lol
TH, might have initially intended a narrative distinct from her previous works, and might not personally interpret LYF as a tradegy. However, delving into Aristotle's philosophy on tragedy, I find that LYF emphasized key elements such as catharsis (XL death and CX madness), the XY's tragic flaws (hamartia), and the reversal of fortune that manifested in CX losing XY again (peripeteia). These aspects is evident that, despite TH intentions, the work inherently embodies a tragedy.
This is interesting. Another thing for me to look into. Thank you :-)
As to the ending of LYF. Whether or not individual readers think the ending is tragic will be up to them. I personally feel that it's a tragedy. A different kind to Once Promised, but still a tragedy, nevertheless.
Personally, I didn't think XY's parents' ending was a tragedy. Yes, they were victims of external forces that were beyond their control, but at least they were able to be true to themselves and their love while upholding their values and responsibilities to the best of their ability. In contrast, XY's avoidance and settling are rather tragic. Go big or go home, I'd say :-). It's that whole adage of rather loved and lost than never loved at all. And ending up with someone like Jing can never be anything but tragic ;-).
Long message. Much snarkiness (not directed at you). May not be coherent towards the end. Not refuting your stance because I can see where you are coming from. Just sharing my opinion.
I think it might be helpful to spell out XY's issues and what real healing would look like for her?AH :
IMO, XY is afraid of three things:
Loneliness.
Becoming close to / loving another person and then being abandoned by that person.
Being emotionally honest / emotionally vulnerable in front of other people (particularly TSJ).
Yes. I'm aware of all of these details as well as the various examples that you listed. You know that I'm not much for listing all the details and providing excerpts. The day that I do that, it's a sign that I've been taken over by an alien and a rescue squad needs to be sent out :-). What I wrote came from synthesizing everything that I've read plus subjective interpretations to come to what I feel is a reasonable opinion. I've mentioned a few times in other posts scattered throughout this thread that XY does have some character growth, I guess it's just that it isn't as much as I would like.
The crux of the problem for me is the YaoJing relationship and more precisely the character of Jing. I mentioned in a post to @plor20 my issues with the way the author chose to write this character, leaving me with a very bad impression of him that unfortunately did not improve throughout the novel. For XY, Jing's most attractive qualities are the fact that he couldn't live without her and his kindness - their appeal comes from her psychological deficiencies. 'Cause as far as I'm concerned, this man is a failure on too many levels - irresponsible, dishonourable, weak-willed, prone to helplessness and incompetent. Yes, he has his good points, but other people out there have his good points without his glaring deficiencies. So for XY to continue to return to such a man makes me question her good judgment. I cannot see it as anything other than her inability to be alone, wanting a companion that will always put her first etc. Maybe inability is not quite the correct word since she won't drop dead or off herself without him, but can't be alone that you would settle for such a flop is concerning.
Her running back to Jing quicker than The Flash following the conversation with Tian Er is just another indicator that she really doesn't want to be alone. The man that she really wanted has slammed the window in her face, the marriage to FL was caput, but Jing is still very much interested so back to him she goes. Yeah, yeah she wasn't going to see him ever again after that. I called bullshit. XL told her Jing's involvement in the bride snatch to hint to her that Jing is still interested and XY was all too happy to accept that hint. While they didn't officially reconcile until later the intention was there after that meeting, all they had to do was resolve Jing's marriage to FFYY. Which XY did with that whole beauty trap business.
How was I supposed to see this whole thing? As XY being some kind of empowering woman? As a positive indicator of these two working together so that they can be together? Sorry, all I see is a woman willingly debasing herself so that she can free her man up to be with her, and a man so incompetent that his woman has to resort to this to solve his problem. A problem that he should have solved years ago as part of the promise that he asked from her. Cang Xuan felt ashamed for dangling XY out as a matrimonial prize to help him gain power; does Jing feels ashamed that XY had to get all up close and personal with his brother to save his ass? As I said, Tong Hua could have chosen another way to resolve this issue, but she chose this and this method said nothing good about these two and their relationship.
At the end, these two saddled a child with their responsibilities so that they could run off together. XY should have known better given her history and how she vowed to never abandon her child, and yet she was all too willing to orphan a child for her own needs. I guess because he wasn't her biological child so to hell with him. Jing once again demonstrated his complete lack of responsibility, integrity and "yes man" characteristic when it comes to XY - anything as long as he can be with XY. Such healthy adults and their healthy relationship.
And I haven't even gotten started on the imagery that the author used throughout the story with this relationship. As I believe that all these images were used intentionally to convey certain ideas about the relationship, I will consider them when I form my opinion. When you start the relationship in a literal prison with a promise designed to shackle and imprison one of the characters, then the relationship development better be so good that I can forget this less-than-positive image of the relationship. And no, the fact that XY willingly allowed herself to be trapped doesn't change the fact that Jing should not have asked for the promise in the first place. All it tells me is that her psychological deficiencies were so strong that she would even consider this mess-up promise, 'cause any other woman without issues would have laughed in his face, ditched his flop ass and found herself someone more worthy.
First off, I personally don't think XY ending up alone would demonstrate her growing / healing.
Ending up alone is not necessary to demonstrate her growth/healing. Ending up without the dead weight that is Jing would :-). She already has Miao Piu and Left-Ear she could have started fresh and found a more worthy companion instead of settling for that. As I mentioned, the story failed to convince me that this relationship is a good/healthy one and this man is someone a healthy woman would pick. I definitely don't think she should be alone forever, just some hints that these two will work on their issues and will reconcile down the track. Having Jing not ditch his responsibilities onto a little child would really help with his image.
I think that we have already established the fact that we have a very different view of Jing. I see him in a much more negative light compared to you. This will obviously influence how we see the XiaoJing relationship. It's one of those agree-to-disagree situations.
Koala's translation has XL saying the "right man for you", but I think a more accurate translation would be "a lover you wished for."Kokuto:
一个 如意 情郎
Yīgè rúyì qíngláng
如意 = as one's wish, according to one's wish, as one likes or be satisfied.
情郎 = girl's lover, boyfriend
so actually this phrase can be understood as (1) a lover as you like/wish or (2) a good lover (as general one's wish, actually 如意 could mean sth between good and ideal).
P/S: The funny thing is we have the word 如意 (như ý) in Vietnamese with the same main meaning. I just checked the official translation and there they use the word "perfect" for it - a perfect lover. LMAO. So, you can see that official translation doesn't mean best or most accurate translation. It just means the translator has official authorization to make the translation. Last week, I read a post on wordpress that critized the official translation of the epilogue
So it's not a tragedy because she didn't end up in the same fate as her mother. And it's not a tragedy because she got the companion that she wanted, but it's not a fully happy ending because he's not the one that she loves one-heartedly and wants to spend the rest of her life with the most.HeadInTheClouds:
XL certainly played a role in preventing a full tragic fate ala her parents.
I agree with this.
So it wasn't who XL thought was right for her (cause as he said repeatedly, Jing was useless)
XL did not say that TSJ was useless in the novel. They added that line in the drama and IMO it's one of the many changes they made that make drama!XL look pettier / more petulant than novel!XL. In chapter 46, the things that XL said about TSJ made it seem like he respected TSJ.
And she STILL is going to end up doomed, as you say, living a long lonely life, because the loser she ended up with got depowered and has a substantially shortened lifespan, of what, 100 years?
TSH cut seven of TSJ's nine tails off in chapter 42. As Hu Ya notes in that chapter, losing those tails would have significantly affected TSJ's spiritual power.
-----
Chapter 42:
The tiger suddenly moved, leaping forward as if attacking the fox on the left but using his strong tail to whip at the fox on the right. The fox tried to dodge but the tiger tail smashed down on the fox tail and split it in two.
Jing tasted blood in his throat and the thick fog lifted a bit, while the tiger got bigger. The nine-tailed fox wasn’t as fast having lost two tails and with a less dense fog it couldn’t hide as well. Soon the tiger bit off another two fox tails.
...
The tiger ripped off another fox tail and Jing screamed in pain while continuing to battle with Hou. The tiger bit off yet another tail and Hou roared, “Jing, you would rather have every organ ripped to shreds than admit you’re not as good as me?”
...
The tiger ripped another fox tail and Jing’s body convulsed in pain.
...
Hu Ya and You walked the field and stopped by a patch of blood. Hu Ya said to Xiao Yao, “This is all Clan Leader’s blood, because his powers were ripped when the nine-tailed fox tails were pulled off, his internal organs were severely injured. He couldn’t even stand so must have collapsed here.”
-----
We know from XY's words in chapter 4 that a nine-tailed fox losing even one tail would severely deplete their powers.
-----
Chapter 4:
“He should have killed me the moment he caught me. But he was consumed by hatred and greed. He used various special creatures to feed to me, forcing me to eat many disgusting things, all so that he could make me nice and plump before eating me. He intended to use my mythical blood to help him recover his lost powers……Oh, I forgot to tell you, he wasn’t a Nine-tailed fox by then, just an eight tail since he got a tail cut off so his powers were severely depleted. He raised me for thirty years and right when he was about to partake of the victory, one day he accidentally got drunk in front of me.”
-----
And we know from chapter 8 that a nine-tailed fox's power is stored in their tails.
-----
Chapter 8:
Jing Ye brought two sets of clothes and the two changed into it and arranged their hair so they appeared like messengers traveling from place to place. Jing Ye took out a box and inside were two dolls. It wasn’t wood carved and was instead furry like an animal’s tail. Xiao Liu was curious and wanted to touch, but Jing Ye slapped his hand away. “This is a doll made from the fox tail of a ten thousand year old nine-tailed fox. It’s extremely rare. The nine-tailed fox is the best at transformation and the tail is where all the power gathers. These two tails have tens of thousands of years of power. Using it to make fake people, even if the dead former Emperors came back to life with their powers they wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.”
-----
TSJ's powers would have been significantly depleted after losing seven tails, but they were not eliminated entirely. He still had two tails left, and we briefly see that he still has some power in chapter 50 (after his assassination and return) where he moves to protect XY (whose spiritual powers are very low). So it seems like his level of spiritual power was still marginally higher than XY's level of spiritual power at the end of the novel.
------
Chapter 50:
It was already bustling this early in the morning in the big streets but quiet and desolate headed into the alley. Jing knocked on the door and Miao Pu’s voice called out, “Who is it? Wanting services this early in the morning, come back later!”
Xiao Yao shushed Jing and kept pounding loudly on the door. She thought Miao Pu would rush out angrily but a figure descended from the roof flying towards Xiao Yao and Jing and startled them instead. Jing pulled Xiao Yao into his arms and readied to repel the attack, but Xiao Yao stopped him. “Left Ear! Stop!”
The figure halted and Jing pulled back his power. Before Xiao Yao could introduce the two, Miao Pu came rushing out sobbing as she grabbed Xiao Yao who had to comfort her. “There there, don’t cry……”
-----
We assume that TSJ losing seven of his nine tails and therefore losing most of his spiritual powers means that he will have a shorter life than he would have had before that loss because lower-power deities (like Lao Mu) have shorter lifespans than higher-power deities (like the Yellow Emperor, who has been alive for well over 6,000 years).
-----
Chapter 1:
Lao Mu was rolling dough and said, “I heard about that man’s injuries from Ma Zi.”
Xiao Liu drank his soup. “Uhm hmmm.”
“Ma Zi, Chuan Zi – neither can see it, but you must be able to tell. He is from one of the God tribes, and he is definitely not one of the lowlier types of Gods like us.”
-----
Chapter 2:
But Lao Mu was a deserter from the Xuan Yuan army, and despite being just a lowly god he still had some spiritual power and could handle a few people.
-----
Chapter 4:
Lao Mu startled for a moment. “Did you convince the owner?” “You can say that.” Lao Mu gave the Heavens a thanks. Xiao Liu added, "Don’t worry, I’ll be with you until you are old and send you off. Your lifespan is shorter so I’ll be with you until you die. I won’t let you be all alone, with no one to rely on and no one to talk to. Who knows who will be with me until I die………”
-----
Note that by the end of the novel, XY's spiritual powers have been very low for approximately 300 years (160 years of wandering after escaping from the eight-tailed fox, 20 years in QS town, and the events of the novel, which span approximately 120 years) and she doesn't seem like she's anywhere close to being near the end of her life.
So despite losing most of their spiritual power, I don't think XY or TSJ would only have 100 years left to live at the end of the novel. I expect that they will still live for several centuries, maybe even millennia, but they won't live as long as they could have if they had kept the very high spiritual powers that they were each born with (which theoretically would have been closer to the Yellow Emperor's lifespan of 6,000+ years).
I also don't think that TSJ's reduced powers and lifespan will necessarily mean that XY will outlive him.
Personally, I didn't think XY's parents' ending was a tragedy. Yes, they were victims of external forces that were beyond their control, but at least they were able to be true to themselves and their love while upholding their values and responsibilities to the best of their ability. In contrast, XY's avoidance and settling are rather tragic. Go big or go home, I'd say :-). It's that whole adage of rather loved and lost than never loved at all.
XY's parents' story wasn't 100% a tragedy in the sense that they were able to be together in limited ways (hence Xiao Yao's existence), stayed true to themselves, and got to see Xiao Yao one more time in the desert before passing on to be together in death. But they lost so many people. Chi You losing the Flame Emperor too early (in a way, because of the loss of his daughter) seems to mirror Ah Heng losing her mother (in a way, because of the loss of her son and daughter-in-law). Chi You lost Yu Mang (and perhaps others?) while Ah Heng lost her brothers (even her killing her ninth brother, who seemed like such a villain, was tragic) and her best friend. Because of their conflicting loyalties, they had to face each other on the battlefield. They weren't able to marry and share a life together. They weren't able to raise Xiao Yao together, or to really know her. Although Chi You was able to save Ah Heng's life so that she could see Xiao Yao one more time and to accompany her as a forest that was infused with his spirit, Ah Heng had to suffer half-alive as a monster-like being for 400 years to do so, when all she wanted was to join Chi You in death. So even if it wasn't 100% tragic, it still seems mostly tragic to me.
Long message. Much snarkiness (not directed at you). May not be coherent towards the end. Not refuting your stance because I can see where you are coming from. Just sharing my opinion.
I always love your tone indicators HeadInTheClouds. Although I always assume your comments are friendly, and that any disagreements are friendly disagreements, it's still nice to have the extra reassurance.
And ending up with someone like Jing can never be anything but tragic ;-).
The crux of the problem for me is the YaoJing relationship and more precisely the character of Jing. I mentioned in a post to @plor20 my issues with the way the author chose to write this character, leaving me with a very bad impression of him that unfortunately did not improve throughout the novel. For XY, Jing's most attractive qualities are the fact that he couldn't live without her and his kindness - their appeal comes from her psychological deficiencies. 'Cause as far as I'm concerned, this man is a failure on too many levels - irresponsible, dishonourable, weak-willed, prone to helplessness and incompetent. Yes, he has his good points, but other people out there have his good points without his glaring deficiencies. So for XY to continue to return to such a man makes me question her good judgment. I cannot see it as anything other than her inability to be alone, wanting a companion that will always put her first etc. Maybe inability is not quite the correct word since she won't drop dead or off herself without him, but can't be alone that you would settle for such a flop is concerning.
Ending up alone is not necessary to demonstrate her growth/healing. Ending up without the dead weight that is Jing would :-). She already has Miao Piu and Left-Ear she could have started fresh and found a more worthy companion instead of settling for that. As I mentioned, the story failed to convince me that this relationship is a good/healthy one and this man is someone a healthy woman would pick. I definitely don't think she should be alone forever, just some hints that these two will work on their issues and will reconcile down the track. Having Jing not ditch his responsibilities onto a little child would really help with his image.
I think that we have already established the fact that we have a very different view of Jing. I see him in a much more negative light compared to you. This will obviously influence how we see the XiaoJing relationship. It's one of those agree-to-disagree situations.
TSJ has many flaws and he's not someone I would want to be in a relationship with. But XY's personality and needs are different from mine, and she seems to like many of the behaviours and personality traits of his that I dislike. Some of that is due to her insecurities as you said, and if she is able to overcome her insecurities (a big if) and he doesn't grow out of those behaviours in parallel, that could spell trouble for them.
But I feel like chapter 51 gives us indications that XY and TSJ have each made progress and have hope for a relatively healthy relationship in the future. XY admits that she lied to TSJ and is emotionally vulnerable in front of him. TSJ is willing to be hard-hearted towards a family member (Tushan Zhen) in order to put XY's needs first. Although I personally feel for Tushan Zhen (the fact that he is left to bear the responsibilities and difficulties of being clan leader as a child is one of the parts of the novel ending that I find most upsetting), that decision suggests that TSJ's previous extreme soft-heartedness towards his family (even when it ended up hurting XY) won't be an issue in the future.
I think the biggest thing for me, though, is that I am very attached to XL's sacrifice and the things he did for XY. It's the part of his character that I find most compelling. That includes XL reviving XY in time to save TSJ's life, pushing XY to be with TSJ, saving TSJ's life, reviving TSJ in time for him to stop XY from becoming the Royal Mother (knowing that they would then get married), and sending a present to XY for her wedding with TSJ (one that secretly contained his wishes for her and showed that he had returned TSJ to her with the intention that he would be the person that she could rely on for life). If TSJ were truly an awful person, or if XY's feelings for him were so miniscule that she was settling for what she could get but could never actually be happy with TSJ, then, in my mind, that would significantly reduce the value of XL's sacrifice. It might even make XL partly responsible for dooming XY to a bad relationship. I hate that. So if there are multiple plausible interpretations to choose between, my preference is to choose the option that doesn't undermine the value of XL's sacrifice.
At the end, these two saddled a child with their responsibilities so that they could run off together. XY should have known better given her history and how she vowed to never abandon her child, and yet she was all too willing to orphan a child for her own needs. I guess because he wasn't her biological child so to hell with him. Jing once again demonstrated his complete lack of responsibility, integrity and "yes man" characteristic when it comes to XY - anything as long as he can be with XY. Such healthy adults and their healthy relationship.
Like I said above, as troubling as this decision is (and I note that it was XY who asked CX to ensure that Tushan Zhen became clan leader before TSJ returned), my sense is that it was included as evidence that TSJ had changed.
Previously, TSJ wasn't able to be hard-hearted towards his grandmother, TSH or FFYY, even though his soft-heartedness hurt XY. XY was understanding of his position, and even said that she would have left him if he had been hard-hearted enough to kill FFYY in those circumstances ("Honestly, if Jing was like you and was hardhearted enough to decide on the plan to kill Fang Feng Yi Yang to end the engagement, then I would actually leave him."). But if he could be hard-hearted enough to leave Tushan Zhen in the difficult position of clan leader so that XY (now his wife) could leave Dahuang for the Ocean the way she wanted, that indicates that he won't repeat his previous mistake of letting XY get hurt due to his soft-heartedness towards his family.
I'll also add that if TSJ had reclaimed his position as Tushan Clan leader until Tushan Zhen was old enough to take on that role, and therefore forced XY to stay in Dahuang and to live as the Tushan Clan leader's wife during that time, I feel like we would all blame him for being overly softhearted towards family again and not being considerate enough of XY's feelings.
Ending up alone is not necessary to demonstrate her growth/healing.
Agreed.
Here is my translation compared to Kaola's.
Thank you for sharing this plor20!
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