nathsketch:
Ah, the roasting session still is in full bloom hahaha
You know, someone mentioned Gollum in the main comment section, and I was thinking about how even greedy, obsessive and treacherous Sméagol had his moments of bravery in The Lord of the Rings. So not even him makes me feel so bad about his character compared to the feelings I have towards Jing.
Must be a feat to write a character that's supposed to be the paragon of virtue in a way that causes so much revulsion. Even his description by Xiao Yao pointing out the reasons to "like" him is sickening. Talk about an unreliable narrator. Wouldn't trust a single word that comes out of her mouth. So adapt at deceiving herself.
Ah yes a fresh roasting is in session. lmao. At least, Golllum heart was corrupted by dark powers, can't say that for Jing.
HeadInTheClouds:
AH :
. That said, before the 15 year timeframe was interrupted by XY's assassination attempt, I don't think TSJ ever completely lost hope that he would be able to end the engagement within the 15 timeframe.
Why is Jing going around making promises based on the "hope" that he could deliver it? Don't write cheques unless you have money in your bank account. A cheque that can't be cashed is called "dishonoured" and that's the word to describe Jing when he makes a promise he "hopes" he can keep. I don't like to make promises unless I'm 99% sure that I'm capable of fulfilling them (the other 1% is for unforeseeable circumstances outside of my control)
But I was not referring to the time when TSJ made his promise in chapter 8. I was referring to the period before XY's attempted assassination in chapter 21.
It sounds like you, me, TSJ, and (I assume) most people are pretty much the same - we make promises we think we can keep, even though sometimes we are not 100% certain that we will be able to keep the promise because we do not control all the variables that will determine whether we are able to deliver on the promise or not and there may be relevant factors that we were not aware of at the time that we made the promise. If those variables change or we become aware of important information that might have impacted our promise if we had known it before making the promise, we will probably still do what we reasonably can do to deliver on our promise. But there are potential circumstances where it wouldn't be a black mark on our character if we ended up not delivering on our promises.
When TSJ promised WXL that he would break his engagement and return YSQ to her within 15 years, he believed (perhaps naively) that he could deliver on that promise based on the information he had at the time. At that point, he intended to leave his identity as TSJ behind.
Later on, a bunch of variables changed, and he likely would have been less confident that he would be able to deliver on his promise within the 15 year timeframe. My comment that you quoted was noting that, IMO, despite all those changed variables after he made his promise, there was never a point during the 15 year period where TSJ thought that he would definitely not be able to deliver on his promise. He held out hope that he would still be able to deliver, and was going to continue to try to do so.
And what this promise cost XY was more than just not watching the latest Marvel movie at Imax before it got moved to normal screens.
I think we might view the opportunity cost that XY gave up when she made her 15 year promise differently.
And the timeframe was not interrupted by YX's assassination attempt. It was interrupted by Jing choosing to sleep for 37 years because he's a spineless coward. He could have stayed awake and resolved his issues, but he didn't. Personal failing doesn't count as unforeseeable circumstances.
Part way through the 15 year time period, an attempt to assassinate XY was made, resulting in her appearing to be dead and later spending 37 years in XL's clam shell while he healed her. When TSJ found XY she appeared to be dead despite his efforts to revive her and him constantly checking for signs of life. So TSJ despaired and chose to die with XY, and for the next 37 years he was in a coma while his spirit sought death. The 15 year time period expired before either of them woke up.
I've said it before in this thread, but it seems quite unfair to me to blame TSJ for not working on breaking his engagement to FFYY during the 37 years. He thought XY was dead, and then sought to die with her. One can certainly judge him for wanting to die with XY, but it just doesn't seem logical to me to criticize him for not working on breaking his engagement with FFYY during that time. To me, it sounds basically like saying, "While he was holding XY's corpse in the assassination maze, believing that she was dead, TSJ should have stopped transferring power to XY's body [which, IMO, would have resulted in XY actually fully dying] and instead of trying to die with XY he should have prioritized getting out of the maze so he could continue working on breaking his engagement to FFYY even though he thought XY was dead." It just seems like a totally illogical expectation.
AH :
Given all of that, should TSJ have told XY to forget the promise and pushed her away before the 15 year promise period was over as soon as he realized that he might not be able to keep his side of the bargain within the 15 year timeframe?
Yes. If you don't think you can deliver then stop robbing people of their time and opportunities any more than you already have. Don't let them become more invested so when you fail to deliver they will sustain even more damage. This is what an honourable, decisive, non-selfish person would do. But we know that Jing ain't any of those things. Pulling the plug at the 2, 3, and 4 years mark means 13, 12, and 11 years where XY could move on and "heal" from the broken promise.
I mean, personally, if I were in XY's shoes, I would want the person in TSJ's position to be honest about the changing variables and to include me in the process of deciding what to do next, which is what TSJ did. I wouldn't want that person to unilaterally decide to give up on the promise and to push me away for my own good without talking to me about it. As much as I (as a reader) love fictional XL for his self-sacrifice, his hide-the-truth-and-push-her-away-for-her-own-good approach is not the approach I'd want in a real life partner.
But please don't take that as me saying I'd want TSJ as a romantic partner. I wouldn't want any of the characters in LYF as a romantic partner.
-----
Chapter 19:
After a huge scare, Xiao Yao wasn’t in the mood to be angry at him anymore. “I didn’t come see you not because I had someone else in my heart, but because I was unhappy. You said you would end the engagement, so what was that in the weapons store?”
“A friend invited Yi Yang and I to visit and that friend collects daggers so I went to buy a present and ran into Yi Yang on the street and she insisted on coming with me.”
“Did you bring up ending the engagement with Yi Yang?”
Jing answered, “Yi Yang was becoming colder and colder to me and I wanted to find time to discuss with her about ending it, but after Feng Long’s birthday, she suddenly changed her attitude and was so solicitous of me. She even mentioned to my grandmother how she was often looked down upon as if hinting she wants to get married sooner. Grandmother always felt like she didn’t do enough for Yi Yang who suffered a lot, so she came to plead with me to give Yi Yang a title. Even if I like another girl, I can just marry another concubine.”
Xiao Yao pushed him. “Dream on!”
Jing grabbed her quickly. “I didn’t say yes! I couldn’t convince my grandmother so I went to talk to Yi Yang about her ending the engagement. I told her I liked someone else and wanted to cancel our engagement. I was willing to give her whatever compensation she wanted. But Yi Yang said she didn’t care how many women I married as long as she was my first wife.”
Xiao Yao laughed. “Can’t imagine she’s so magnanimous! I think you should marry her and then later you marry your own harem and live in bliss!”
Jing said painfully, “Xiao Yao, stop mocking me! Can’t you understand? Because she could care less about me, that is why she doesn’t care. All she wants is the title of the wife of the Tu Shan clan leader!”
Xiao Yao stopped smiling and asked, “And then?”
“Yi Yang knew I wanted to end the engagement and went to cry in front of my grandmother. She reminded her that years ago her dad wanted to end the engagement and she put on her wedding dress and came to Qing Qiu. She never thought about leaving after that. If I want to kick her out, then she’ll kill herself because she wasn’t good enough for me. She said she was willing to serve the same husband with other women and be filial to grandmother….. Now grandmother thinks I’m the one being unreasonable and refuses to end the engagement. Yi Yang comes off as understanding and open-minded so grandmother is completely on her side.”
Xiao Yao asked, “So you guys are stuck at an impasse?”
Jing nodded his head. “I can’t end the engagement, they can’t force me to marry Yi Yang.”
Xiao Yao sighed – just like Zhuan Xu said, it would be very difficult for Jing to end the engagement.
Xiao Xiao whooshed past on her winged ride as if to remind Xiao Yao it was time to go back. Xiao Yao said, “I promised you fifteen years. As long as you don’t marry, I’ll keep that promise. Don’t worry about Yi Yang for now. Gege said there were over a dozen assassins. Who do you think was behind it? Hou?”
AH :
If he had done so, I don't think that would have resulted in XY being happier. I think it would have resulted in XY feeling hurt and abandoned yet again.
Allow me to translate this into plain speech, "I didn't do the honourable/selfless/right thing by you, but it's for your own benefits/good". Or how about, "I didn't do the honourable/selfless/right thing by you because I knew you couldn't handle it. I knew how damaged you were and this would only trigger your abandonment issues again. So, you see XY, it was your fault that I did what I did". Way to go with blaming XY for your failures to act honourably, Jing.
I can't recall any circumstances where TSJ blamed XY for his actions or decisions. I do think his concern for her reaction may have played a role in the actions and decisions he chose to take, but I see that as different from allocating blame.
The fact that Jing knew how his failure to deliver on this promise would negatively affect XY is all the more reason why he should not have asked for it in the first place.
I agree with this to a degree, although I would point out that at the time that TSJ made the promise, he had lived with WXL for six years and continued to spend time with her after he reclaimed his identity as TSJ. So he had some insight into her personality. But he did not know about the circumstances that created her abandonment issues. He found out about those later. So he didn't have a full sense of how a failure to keep his promise would impact WXL at the time that he made his promise.
At that point, XY was more invested in their relationship than she ever had been before.
If he had done the right thing earlier, XY wouldn't have become even more invested in their relationship. And now, he continues to use this to justify his own shitty actions. Funny how it's always to his benefit. He acted dishonourably to start with and at every subsequent point, his own cowardice and selfishness compounded the issues which he then justified with "It will only hurt XY if I do the right thing now". A little too convenient for me. Just because XY was desperate enough to buy his bullshit, it doesn't mean that I will.
Sure, if TSJ had completely cut XY off before chapter 21 and if he had not tried to die with XY in chapter 21 and chapter 22 (and if XL had not pushed XY away from himself and towards TSJ), then XY presumably would not have become more invested in their relationship in chapter 22. (Although if that also meant that TSJ didn't run to XY in chapter 21, it might also mean that she would be dead in chapter 22.)
But TSJ never says anything like "XY, you're too invested in this relationship now so I can't push you away" to justify why he maintains their secret relationship instead of pushing XY away in that chapter. I was just observing that pushing XY away at that point would have hurt XY, which factors into our meta analysis of what TSJ should have done.
AH :
IMO he should have told XY what happened during the cloud carriage ride to Qing Qiu. Although I acknowledge that disclosing that kind of news while two people are trapped in a flying vehicle would not have been ideal.
He had 3 months. That's 90 days. Even if I'm generous and gave him 1 month to get his big girl panties on, that still gave him 60 days to Uber or Cab it to inform XY. That trip would take like, what, 3-4 hours max? 60x24 = 1440 hours. That would still give Jing 1436 hours to mope and cry afterwards. What stopped him? Oh, that's right. Lack of a spine.
XY unexpectedly left and went to Five Gods Mountain with Ah Nian for almost three months without telling TSJ so she had space to think away from TSJ. TSJ went looking for XY 10 days after XY left and encountered CX instead, who told TSJ that XY had gone to Five Gods Mountain. He probably also told TSJ that she went there partly to get space away from TSJ to think. CX also assured TSJ that XY would return.
Sure, TSJ could have gone to Five Gods Mountain at that point to tell her what happened, but then he wouldn't have been respecting her space. So if he had waited until she returned after three months (to replenish TSJ's grandmother's pills - so timing that TSJ might anticipate) but then told her as soon as she returned, I don't think that necessarily would have been wrong. But he had an opportunity to tell XY after she returned (and before she interacted with his grandmother and FFYY) and he didn't take it, and I do think that was wrong.
-----
Chapter 24:
Xiao Yao said, “I want to go back to Gao Xing and see my dad. Any word you want me to bring?”
“No, but I have presents for Consort Jing An and Ah Nian. When are you going back?”
“If your present is ready by tomorrow, I’ll leave tomorrow.”
Zhuan Xu smiled wanly. “Are you missing Master or trying to avoid Jing?”
“Both. From when I woke up until Jing took over as clan leader, we have both been forced into decisions due to the circumstances. No matter what he’s now the clan leader and carries the future of his entire clan on his back. I feel like he needs to settle down and we both need to assess our new roles in life and decide what we each need.”
“You keep talking about him, but what about yourself? What do you think?”
Xiao Yao flipped over and rested her chin on the pillow and stared at Zhuan Xu “Forget me, I’m the same as you. We appear to be two extremes but we’re the same. We will never actively fight for something, because we’re afraid that it’s a mistake to fight for it to begin with. We are both so reactive, hoping the choice picks us.”
Zhuan Xu looked torn and glanced at Xiao Yao before laughing “I’m different than you, I don’t care about romance.”
Xiao Yao laughed “This is different, I want someone to spend an entire life with me, but you’ve chosen to spend your entire life with power.”
Zhuan Xu rubbed her head and sighed. “The presents will be ready tomorrow, you leave tomorrow then! Go rest in Five Gods Mountain and if you get bored then go fight with Ah Nian.”
Xiao Yao laughed out loud “What kind of Gege are you? Encouraging your two sisters to fight?”
Zhuan Xu smiled, “Only siblings can fight and still keep on fighting in the future. Friends would be strangers already after fighting. Ah Nian is just innocent but not stupid. You angered her to leave last time, she likely already figured out what you did to protect her.”
_________________________
Xiao Yao returned to Five Gods Mountain with Shan Hu and Miao Pu accompanying her.
...
Xiao Yao stayed in Five Gods Mountain for nearly three months.
She calculated the Grand Madam’s pills were almost done and she needed to go back. Xiao Yao went to say her goodbyes to her dad.
...
Zhuan Xu said, “Tu Shan Jing is at Little Zhu Rong’s residence. When are you going to see him?”
“I’ll go tomorrow, I want to go to Qing Qiu with him to see the Grand Madam and make more medicine for her. I’ll be back in a week or so, take care of Ah Nian for me.”
Zhuan Xu held his wine and grinned at Xiao Yao until she couldn’t take it anymore. “Is he well these days?”
Zhuan Xu smiled, “You want me to tell you?”
“Gege!”
Zhuan Xu said, “After you left, he came about ten days later to see you and learned you went back to Gao Xing. His face darkened and I guaranteed you would come back before he relaxed a bit. But recently he’s been odd, Xing Yue says he spends all night pacing in the Evergreen residence and likes to bathe and change often.”
-----
Chapter 25:
Jing Ye led Xiao Yao inside the room, “Master, the Princess is here.”
Jing stood before the table and quietly stared at Xiao Yao, his eyes reflecting a quiet control.
Xiao Yao’s heart twinged and felt like he was a bit off. She asked, “What? Don’t welcome me? The Grand Madam’s pills are almost done so let’s go to Qing Qiu!”
Jing appeared to snap out of it and walked over wanting to embrace Xiao Yao but hesitated and only took her hand.
Xiao Yao smiled, “Let’s go!”
“Yes.” Jing pulled Xiao Yao out the door. The two got in a cloud carriage and Jing remained strangely quiet.
Xiao Yao thought it was about her leaving for Gao Xing without saying goodbye and explained, “I went to Gao Xing alone to help me think. We’ve been forced along by situations and I wanted you to have time to think clearly. Plus I needed to spend some time with my dad.”
Jing said in a low voice, “Xiao Yao.”
“Yes?”
“Xiao Yao.”
“Yes, I’m here.”
“Xiao Yao……”
Xiao Yao stared at him quizzically but Jing said nothing more.
They arrived at Qing Qiu at dusk and Jing took Xiao Yao to greet the Grand Madam.
-----
Although I know rape is an extremely difficult topic for a rape victim to discuss, especially in this circumstance where TSJ was probably also afraid of hurting XY + how XY would react, I still found myself frustrated with TSJ for not taking that opportunity to tell XY what happened.
I was also annoyed when he later told XY that he never had the chance to tell her about it.
-----
Chapter 25:
Ah Nian nodded at Jing and then left.
Xiao Yao gestured to where Ah Nian had been sitting and invited Jing in with a smile.
Xiao Yao’s face was pale white and her body wan, but she was wearing a warm yellow color and had on a bit of blush so she didn’t seem all that sick. She seemed more like a Spring flower that was facing the still cold late Winter air, a fragile kind of beauty rooted in steeliness to survive.
Jing’s heart churned in pain. “Xiao Yao, I…..”
Xiao Yao silently stared at him and intently listened.
Jing said with great difficulty, “Three months ago, the first time you gave Grandmother the pills, Yi Yang started sticking really close to me. Usually I could leave Qing Qiu to avoid her but Grandmother was sick so I couldn’t go anywhere. One night she tried to kill herself and even Grandmother was alarmed. She chastised me so I had to keep her company as she recovered. Later….I thought I saw you and you kept smiling at me…..” Jing’s face was filled with regret and anguish. “I don’t know what happened but I woke up and I was sleeping with Yi Yang in my arms.”
Xiao Yao coolly explained, “You likely got entranced by a confusion spell and then a love potion. You learned from me for a long time, how could you so easily fall into Yi Yang’s medicinal trap?”
Jing’s hands were clenched into a fist and he was filled with rage, but then he released it. “My Grandmother set up the trap.” His dearest family tricking him left him nowhere to turn to release his rage.
Xiao Yao was astonished. “It was the Grand Madam.”
Jing curled over in pain and put his hands on his face. “Yi Yang told me that she just wanted to be my wife. If I wanted to I could kill her. In that instant I really wanted to kill her, but I wanted to kill myself more…..I escaped from her room and ran to Zhi Yi. I didn’t dare go see you and instead hid in the Li Jie tribe gambling den and drank myself into a stupor. Ten days later the owner kicked me out back to Little Zhu Rong’s residence when I learned that you had long left for Gao Xing.”
Xiao Yao thought and realized this was why Jing was so strange and didn’t contact her while she was gone.
Jing said, “I wanted to find the chance to tell you this but you rushed to make medicine for Grandmother and I never got the chance. After you were done, before I could tell you, Yi Yang fainted….Xiao Yao, I’m sorry!”
Xiao Yao was silent and then said, “Thank you for telling me this. Now I know at least that I didn’t misjudge you. My trust was not wrongly given. But what’s happened has happened and nothing can be reversed. Don’t blame yourself anymore.”
Xiao Yao took off her fish amethyst necklace and placed it in front of Jing. “The Grand Madam will likely hold your wedding to Yi Yang soon. I won’t be attending to congratulate you. I’ll give you my blessings early now – respect and love each other until your hair is white.
Jing’s head jerked up and he stared at Xiao Yao.
In the dish, the lilies Ah Nian conjured up were wilting and as each petal fell and each leaf wilted, Xiao Yao sat on the pallet seemingly looking at him and seemingly not seeing him. The distance between them was but one crystal dish, but it felt as far and wide as the ends of the Earth.
Jing’s hand shook and he picked up the necklace and walked out of the residence. His footsteps were one light one heavy and he had no clue how he walked back to Zhuan Xu’s residence.
AH :
After the interrupted wedding, XY was alone with XL/FFB for over a month in chapter 32, and TSJ didn't try to find her or to keep her away from XL/FFB
Should I give him credit for not being totally pathetic? And what exactly does this prove anyway? That Jing wasn't selfish and was "generous" to allow XY to spend time with XL? What could Jing do anyway? Sent people after Xiang Liu? He would know that Xiang Liu is not easy to deal with so that would just be a fool's errand, and XY would just see him for the pathetic man that he is with that move. Bonus! Too much of a coward to actually take real action.
To me, this shows that TSJ wasn't trying to stop XY from being with anyone but him. He was willing to accept her being with someone else, perhaps even her eloping with XL/FFB, without trying to get her back for himself, without trying to follow / stalk her, and without sending anyone else to collect information about her.
Stopping her wouldn't necessarily require confronting XL himself or sending anyone else to confront him. Off the top of my head, what if he had manipulated XY into returning by finding her location and then getting word to her that he was dying? Or that CX's health was in jeopardy? I won't try to come up with a perfect plan here. My point is that TSJ could have acted selfishly and tried to stop XY from being with XL/FFB during that time. But he didn't, and I think that provides some insight into his thoughts and his actions related to XY by that point in the story.
AH :
When XY wanted to treat his illness and to help him take down TSH and FFYY in chapter 33, should TSJ have pushed XY away at that point, given that he was still not free?
Yes. This is just a repetition of that 15-year promise. Jing is still not a free man, and he really should deal with his crap first before hooking XY back in. Whenever a man tells me that he's in the process of getting separated from his wife, but that he will totally be free so I still should give him a chance. I know I found myself a rat. No difference here.
At that point (when XY wanted to treat TSJ's illness and wanted to help him take down TSH and FFYY), TSJ didn't ask XY to restart their romantic relationship / to give him a chance in that sense. That came later.
Jing had a chance to make an honourable choice here to redeem himself for that original dishonourable, selfish act, but once again his selfishness came through. Luckily for Jing, this time XY had wisened up and realised that unless she did it, he probably would flop like he did the first time. Also luckily for Jing, XY was damaged enough and desperate enough that she didn't see him for the garbage that he is, so she willingly debased herself to seduce his brother to free him up to be with her. This self-serving, spineless and shameless rat just stood by while the woman that he "loves" subjected herself to his brother's leering attention and opened herself to public gossip and ridicule. All to solve his problem for him. What a prince!
I personally thought that the two of them communicating more openly about their feelings and cooperating to take down TSH and FFYY together was a positive development.
XY came up with a plan that would have hit at TSJ's deepest insecurities (since it involved her seducing TSH), but she asked TSJ to trust her and he did. I thought that was positive too.
I agree that the fact that TSJ seemed incapable of taking TSH and FFYY down on his own makes his character seem rather annoyingly ineffective.
AH :
After XY finds out about the pregnancy, TSJ doesn't suggest breaking up, but accepts it when XY ends their relationship. Honestly, I think it's better for XY to have been the one to end things between them. Similar to her whole thing about it being better to be the person who leaves rather than being the person who is left.
Nah! This isn't Jing being thoughtful, this is just Jing continuing his pattern of cowardice and selfishness. It's similar to how he stays quiet when faced with a difficult question that he doesn't want to answer. As long as he doesn't say/do anything, then the responsibility is on the other person to respond. If the response benefits him then that's great; if not then he gets to wash his hands of responsibility and even claim generosity like with this particular interpretation here. Watch out for people who do this in real life. An honourable, up-standing person won't pull this bullshit.
The reason that TSJ didn't suggest breaking up, but accepted XY breaking up with him, might have been that Jing was a selfish coward. It might have been that, similar to previous instances in the novel, he was letting her walk away from him instead of being the one to walk away from her. Or maybe it was a mix of the two. Whatever the reason, it doesn't change my original point, which is that I personally think it was better for XY to be the one to end things between them. She found it less painful to be the person who leaves rather than the person who is left.
AH :
And then when he was forced to accept the position of Tushan clan leader (rather than leaving the clan), he thought that his grandmother was going to die soon, and once she was gone he would have had more control over calling off the engagement.
Jing really was making that promise to XY based on hope and prayer. Waiting for his grandmother to shuffle off the mortal coil so that he could have more control over calling off the engagement. So he knew he didn't have control to start with. Like I said, don't write cheques unless you have money in your bank account. Acting dishonourably right at the starting point, then when the issues compounded because he couldn't deal with them, he continue to make selfish choices to hang on to XY and using her own issues to justify his shitty actions. XY caught herself a rat disguised as a prince. Actually, it should be XY got caught by a rat disguised as a prince. Prayer circle for XY.
TSJ accepting the position of Tushan Clan leader occurred 40+ years after TSJ and XY made their 15 year promises. At the time that TSJ made his promise, TSJ did not know that his grandmother would oppose him ending the engagement to the extent that she did despite all his efforts to change her mind, he did not know that decades later his grandmother would use her pain and short remaining time left to force him to become the clan leader, and he did not know that his grandmother would pass away only a few decades later.
We hope and root for his recovery, but unlike XY, we, as the audience, are awaiting when he becomes someone worth remembering and whose character will change the lives around him for better or worse.plor20:
This! His dependency on XY and lack of character development are the biggest turn-offs for me.
Oh dang it. The One Ring was destroyed. The One Jing should have had the same fate.
Hahahaha....to bad there's no Mount Doom to throw Jing in! hahha
What would be the Chinese Fantasy/Mythology equivalent of Mount Doom? I'll chip in to hire someone (maybe Chubby?) to ship Jing there and toss him in :-)
Someone photoshop Jing's face onto this.......:-)
Guys, look what I found!ZYHLJ:
This is a farewell poem written by Su Wu, a famous diplomat from the Han Dynasty in China (he is a national hero and a household name in China), to his wife before he went on a mission to the Huns. The last three characters of this poem are exactly the Chinese name of LYF (novel and drama).
留别妻
Girls, do you think this might be another meaning from Tonghua? The last line of this poem (actually the whole poem) really sounds like talking about Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao...
A line in this poem was used as the title for chapter 50 (Vol 3 chapter 16). @Liddi found the translation of the poem in November last year Chapter 50 -title .Around that time, some of us also saw that TH was likely to use the chapter titles to send hidden message.
I quoted here some of @Liddi's lines about the poem and its hidden message:
"As pointed out, this chapter covers Xiao Yao, having been reunited with Jing, finds out that the lovers bug has been removed from her body, and finally gets married to him on Xuan Yuan mountain. The title itself should refer to Xiao Yao and Jing being married at last with no more doubts between them. However, the origin of the actual poem from which the title was derived, is about a man who leaves his wife to go to war, and pledges to return if he lives, and for her to miss him if he dies. Despite the parting, he wants his wife to continue to enjoy life, even if he hopes she does not forget their happy times together. In this context, this certainly applies more to Xiang Liu, who sacrifices his personal happiness with the woman he loves, in order to fight with his comrades-in-arms for their lost kingdom. Even without him beside her, he wants her to live her life to the fullest and be happy.
Without knowing the context of the poem, it is not as clear cut for normal readers whether there is a hidden meaning to it or not. However, for those who are versed in the origins of the poem from which the title is derived, then it provides a haunting subtext for Xiang Liu, which Tong Hua does not put down clearly on paper. This, as the articles you shared mentioned, would serve as one of the novel's multiple hidden narratives."
The novel consists of 51 chapters. By now, we have found almost 40 poems linked with the chapter titles. It is not easy task to understand ancient poems (in Madarine). And everyone may have his/her own interpretation of the message or the link between the poem and chapter content.
If you are interested in those poems and having your own interpretation, you can take a look at the thread on poems used for chapter titles.
When TSJ promised WXL that he would break his engagement and return YSQ to her within 15 years, he believed (perhaps naively) that he could deliver on that promise based on the information he had at the time. At that point, he intended to leave his identity as TSJ behind.AH :
On the subject of the 15 years promise:
1) The discussion shouldn't even be what Jing intended to do or whether he reasonably believed that he could deliver, but whether it should have even been asked in the first place. And the answer to that is a solid NO. Jing was an engaged man, and unless and until he got himself free, he should not be asking anyone to bind themselves to him. PERIOD. He was supposedly a "gentleman", he would know that this is not the action of a gentleman. His action was motivated out of pure selfishness. His action was wrong, wrong, wrong right at its inception. Any further discussions on this are excuses and justifications for this wrongful act.
2) To call Jing's naive is to infantilise him; it diminishes the magnitude of responsibility that he should bear for his actions. Jing was an adult. He would have known his own ability, his grandmother, his family circumstances and what he could reasonably do or not do. If he doesn't then he's more pathetic than he already is. The decision-making power to break the engagement was not 100%, solidly in his hands; if it were he wouldn't have asked for the 20/15 years. He would have known that he has to deal with the FFYY, the FF's family, his clans and his grandmother - all of these parties have a stake in this engagement. That's not one, but 4 other sources of influence that diminished his control over this situation. These things are not unforeseeable circumstances. They are very much foreseeable obstacles to his ability to deliver on his promise. Yes, we make promises even when we're not 100% certain. But I do not make promises where I need 4 other people to co-sign it to make it happen. That's like promising someone to sell them a car that has 4 other people's names on the deed. I guess I'm not as naive as Jing.
Like I said, don't write cheques unless you have money in the bank and this is Jing, writing XY a cheque while he waits for his grandmother, his clans, FFYY and the FF's family to (hopefully) deposit the money. This isn't naivety. This is a scam. It's a con. And like a good con artist, he targeted and exploited his victim's vulnerability - selling and promising to fulfil her hope in a future outcome - while reaping the benefits for himself. He doesn't know if he can fulfil his end of the bargain, but with this promise, he successfully binds her to him. He ensured her investment, her attachment to this promised outcome and to him. An attachment that XY never managed to extricate herself from; continuously making excuses for his constant failures. This 15-year promise was designed to benefit Jing first and foremost. This promise was a metaphorical prison that con man Jing lured and trapped XY into. Self-serving rat.
I've said it before in this thread, but it seems quite unfair to me to blame TSJ for not working on breaking his engagement to FFYY during the 37 years. He thought XY was dead, and then sought to die with her. One can certainly judge him for wanting to die with XY, but it just doesn't seem logical to me to criticize him for not working on breaking his engagement with FFYY during that time
These things are entwined. I said before that I don't judge Jing solely from the position of whether he's fulfilling XY's needs. Him living and dying for XY is a black mark against him. I judge his actions and what it tells me about his character. Here, it isn't about him working on breaking his engagement to FFYY, it's about him cowardly sleeping for 37 years. It's judging him for abandoning all of his other responsibilities. If Jing was less of a spineless coward, he would have stayed awake. He robbed himself of the opportunities to fulfil his promise to XY through his own cowardice. And that's what I'm judging him for.
I can't recall any circumstances where TSJ blamed XY for his actions or decisions. I do think his concern for her reaction may have played a role in the actions and decisions he chose to take, but I see that as different from allocating blame.
But TSJ never says anything like "XY, you're too invested in this relationship now so I can't push you away" to justify why he maintains their secret relationship instead of pushing XY away in that chapter. I was just observing that pushing XY away at that point would have hurt XY, which factors into our meta analysis of what TSJ should have done.
Yes. I'm aware that Jing never said bla bla bla. I crafted my response as a demonstration that that line of reasoning is responsibility shifting and self-serving justification for why he didn't do the honourable thing of releasing her from the 15-year promise.
TSJ went looking for XY 10 days after XY left and encountered CX instead, who told TSJ that XY had gone to Five Gods Mountain.
Cookie for Jing for manning up.
Sure, TSJ could have gone to Five Gods Mountain at that point to tell her what happened, but then he wouldn't have been respecting her space.
And we're back to our regular programming. Jing was granted a stay of execution and decided to play ostrich. I get it, it wasn't going to be a pleasant conversation. But for crying out loud. He's an adult, surely he must know to weigh up the importance and urgency of situations. Respecting her space can wait given the circumstances. It's just Jing, being passive and cowardly, like he is. And his passivity then led to XY finding out in that humiliating fashion. Get a spine, please!
My point is that TSJ could have acted selfishly and tried to stop XY from being with XL/FFB during that time. But he didn't, and I think that provides some insight into his thoughts and his actions related to XY by that point in the story.
I guess this comes down to our very different view of this character. No surprise there :-). You see this as him being selfless. Given his history of selfishness, cowardliness, and passivity - this is just more of the same thing for me.
At that point (when XY wanted to treat TSJ's illness and wanted to help him take down TSH and FFYY), TSJ didn't ask XY to restart their romantic relationship / to give him a chance in that sense. That came later.
There's an implication of them restarting their romantic relationship once the situation with Hou and FFYY is sorted. As I said, he was not a free man and should not have hooked XY back in again until he sorted out his situation. Do the honourable thing, and sort out his mess before going to look for XY. But nope. That would have required some honour and pride and Jing doesn't seem to have them.
And this entire XY seducing Hou situation will never be anything, but ick. If you poll people on the street, the words that they would use to describe a man whose woman has to debase herself to seduce his brother to solve his problem for him would probably be: wuss, p****, wimp, coward. Nothing good. For Jing to just accept without even putting up a protest. I guess, if you're generous, you'll see it as him trusting her. Consider me not so generous, 'cause all I see is a man without self-respect, pride or dignity. Because he was so ineffective in dealing with his own issues, his woman had to resort to this to help him. Lets also add impotence to the list. If XY was my loved one, I would be smacking sense into her. And nuking Jing for the rat that he is.
The author could have used any method, and yet she chose the most emasculating way for XY to solve Jing's problem for him. The author consistently chose to write this character in a way that pointed to him being a self-serving spineless coward; the 15-year promise, the sitting there waiting to die, the 37 years of sleeping, this brother seducing business and the crowning achievement at the very end of the story - child abandonment. If she consistently chose to write him this way, then that will be how I view him. And that will also be the lens through which I judge all of his other actions.
Every time I discuss this character I find something else to dislike about him. It's giving me a cardiovascular workout. Jing finally managed to be useful for something :-)
By sheer luck, I stumbled across this summary from Koala today:
The Yellow Emperor and his Empress Xi Ling Lei Zhu’s backstory.
Thanks for sharing.
I feel like I've read this somewhere. Maybe it was a Vietnamese version.
I also came across a post that detailed how A-Heng was actually an amalgamation of two mythological characters. Quite a bit of detail into the various myths that were the basis for LYF.
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