Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 liddi:

May I know where it says life grows in the valleys and gorges he created? What I read is that water sources were formed such as ponds or streams, but the water was disgusting, bitter and had an unpleasant odour such that even wild animals could not bear to be nearby.

The line I paraphrased is from page 121 of the Penguin Classics 1999 reprint edition: "Whatever Aide Willow bumped into and butted against became breckland and gullies."

Breckland is a type of landscape characterized by dry soil, featuring heathland, grassland, and patches of pine forest. Gullies are narrow, steep-sided channels or trenches formed by the rapid erosion of soil and rock, typically caused by the action of running water. They often develop on slopes where water runoff from heavy rainfall or melting snow concentrates in a particular area, carving out a deep groove in the landscape.

So, I interpreted this line to mean that despite his nature, he still manages to sustain life, even if it's only hardy vegetation.

The following paragraph describes how, when he died, his blood poisoned the land, resulting in a rotten odor.

 liddi:

That's interesting, because I don't see drama Xiang Liu as a lovesick, pitiful fool, or one who was reluctant to give up a future with Xiao Yao. Which part gave both of you this impression?

 liddi:

What did not work as well for me was what became of the pearl.

 liddi:

The added scenes work well for me for the most part. The sending off of Mao Qiu - prompted by TJC no less. Him lying on her bed in Qingshui Town, sensing her missing him, and his words " A kind of feeling, puts two people in idle sadness" emphasising YaoLiu's mutual love. The red robes during the 7-day wait. The exchange between him and Ru Shou before he died.

I wouldn't say that the entirety of Season 2 portrayed him as lovesick, but I would say several scenes didn’t work for me and leaned heavily towards the lovelorn. Those are the scenes that bothered me the most in my initial comparison of the novel and Drama XL. This, of course, is not a critique of how Tan approached XL; I think he did great with whatever premise he was given. 

1. Casino Scene: I thought this scene was okay, but I believe it took away from the power of the questioning later. I’m a believer in the power of three and how this number affects storytelling. If they were going to include this scene, they should have added another scene—another opportunity for XL to ask again. Then, when we reach the aftermath of the wedding kidnapping in Qingshui, his questioning wouldn’t feel like it’s coming out of left field. It would have made sense and tied the narrative together smoothly.

2. Guqin Scene: I didn’t like this scene at all. It didn’t serve any purpose for me. It’s not that I didn’t believe XL couldn’t be talented and sing, but the scene felt last-minute and ad hoc. The camera angles, movement, editing, and the fact that Tan had to improvise with very little preparation did not work well. Tan seems like someone who prepares intensively, and I could tell improv is not his strength. 

   I almost forgot this scene existed and initially thought the first time I saw XL was after the wedding snatching. Hahaha... but I think this scene shouldn’t have existed. If it did, it should have been FFB who came to her, and it should have tied to a scene in Season 1 to make it symbolic in some way. If I were to write this scene, I would compare it to a scene in Qingshui Town, where she is in disguise as a man. The weakness in this scene lies in how plain it is. Where is the lighting, cinematography, symbolism, metaphors? Another critique is that guqin is also represents Jing, so having XL play it, takes away that correlation. Then having it appeared so out of place, it didn’t move the story forward and, therefore, didn’t work for me.

3. XL’s Monologue About Not Being the Person in XY’s Heart: This monologue is unnecessary, but since the story has been moving towards an official CP, I understand why they made him do it. However, I loved this added scene that metaphorically ties XL and Chiyou together—their roles, their dilemmas, and their choices. It was a beautiful scene that should have remained quiet and contemplative. How I would have written this scene is by removing all of XL’s unnecessary lines. While he is being lectured by the old man Lirong, XL should drink silently, with tears brimming at the edges. Let JC work our hearts as he drowns silently while being lectured. I feel this would have been more powerful. Maybe throw in a a short montage? Lmao. Make our heart hurt! Then when he can't take the lecturing, he throws the wine gourd, and the old man Lirong, stops lecturing. Like a father, he will consol by picking up broken pieces, but XL stops him and said he will pick it up. Whiile XL cleans up, he goes back to his hut.

4. XL feeling Jing's kiss and trying to throw away the tear pearl—I hate this scene. I think it's one thing to let the mind speculate and another to actually show it. Lmao. This scene actually worked as a double-edged sword for LYF. For me, it portrayed XL as very lovelorn and quite pitiful. Despite knowing that the woman he loves is with another man and being able to feel her intimacy, he is still unable to let go. As for XY, it portrayed her as absolutely obtuse, self-unaware, and shameless. The fact that she knows XL can feel her, yet she still goes ahead with physical intimacy, makes her seem like some kind of exhibitionist. Despite, JC impeccable portrayal of that hurt, it didn't work for me. I was more in shock than sad.

5. Random scenes of XL drinking: There were maybe a couple of scenes where XL is just drinking and talking to Maoqui. These scenes didn’t work for me because they present a stark contrast to the XL who is preparing for war. The dichotomy is jarring, and it doesn’t help flesh out XL's character. At best, it actually works against it. If they want to portray the conflict within XL, then he would need to continue drinking all the way to the end of the drama. Let the wine replace XY’s poisons, giving it some power and weight to XL's character.

6. Pearl tear at the end of XL's final battle: I cannot stress enough how underwhelming the whole war debacle is in LYF. In my head, I had imagined a battle like that of 300 ("We are Chenrong!") or like Game of Thrones' Battle of the Bastards. Lmao. So, I was already really disappointed in the battle scenes. Again, Tan did amazing with the thin budget and script, but I had envisioned XL's death to be calming—like going home after centuries of fighting a war that wasn’t his, where he would have a flash of the life he led, his love for XY, and finally, find peace.

   And if the pearl truly needed to make an appearance, I would have it rise from his dead body (maybe from the broken wine gourd that he fixed), bursting and causing snow to fall. And if it’s snowing, I would have XY wake up with heartache, looking at the snow, holding her heart, and crying silently. She wouldn’t need to say much—just frantically searching around her room for her mirror, and when she finds it no longer contains the memories, she would throw it until it cracks. And just as XL picks up the broken wine pieces, XY would pick up the broken mirror.

I can see that TH has a hard time visually tying together all the elements in her story, and the second half dropped the ball on a few of them. It would have been nice for her to maintain those elements. For example, the story of the snake and nine-tailed fox that imprisoned XY could have easily created parallels in the narrative, but visually, TH needed some motifs in her film compositions. We also lose TH's metaphor of the spiders and the web, and I would have loved to see these metaphors reflected in the visual elements.  I am a hardcoare believer in visually, everything should come in threes and sevens. The image imprinted in XY’s eyes is introduced once, and then again in Jing, but it disappears after that.  Her motifs about the moon also got lost—it became a decorative element instead of a metaphor for XY’s heart. So many things were lost.  Another qualm I had was the deemphasis on XY's depression and her dreams. These would have been such great storytelling elements.

Such a long post. Lmao. In a few days, I'll have part two.

 liddi:

For Scarlet Heart, they adapted it based on their own history, but a Great Wilderness equivalent with fantasy elements - is there anything that is similar in Korean myth? And while we're on that topic, who would be your dream cast for this production? 

I don't think it's that Korea lacks fantasy; it's the budget issue. Fantasy costs a lot of money to produce, and to achieve the caliber of something like Kingdom, a Korean adaptation would likely be condensed into 12 episodes split into two 6-episode seasons, with two years apart for filming and post-production.

I would vote Lee Do Hyun as my XL—hands down. XD. He has a pretty face, and like Tan, he stole the show in Hotel del Luna despite having the least amount of screentime (even less than Tan). For CX, I would vote for Lee Jae Wook, and for Jing... hmmm... maybe someone a bit better at acting but not entirely useless, like Park Hyung Sik. All three of these actors are relatively established in idol dramas, with Lee Jae Wook and Lee Do Hyun already considered really strong actors, and have already been appearing in indie and netflix films.

 liddi:

That being said, ultimately, Shao Hao's ability to give up his throne to Cang Xuan speaks volumes about how far he had become, though when we think about it, ultimately his decision is no different from what drove him through the years - which once again hinges first and foremost on the well-being of his people, knowing that unification of the Great Wilderness was inevitable, but not willing that Gao Xin become a conquered people. Hence, the marriage alliance and the appointment of Cang Xuan as his successor was a masterstroke that ensured that Gao Xin as a people could lift their heads high under their new ruler.

Interesting insight. I wonder what Shao Hao would have done if A Nian truly didn't want to marry Cang Xuan. 

 liddi:

Jing in the novel is far more likeable than in the drama. To me, one of the greatest highlights for Jing was not how he protected Xiao Yao's body during the Plum Forest assassination, but how he fought so hard to protect Yi Ying out of compassion and also for young Tian's sake. That reaffirmed who he was at the core, a man who was clearly not a fool, but willing to give those who harmed him a chance to change, to stop without making things worse for themselves. Unfortunately, the drama did him no favours in this part of the story, and all I saw was someone who manipulated Yi Ying into accepting the punishment in exchange for her son's well-being, who did not even make any attempt to dissuade her when she offered herself up as a sacrifice.

Good point that Jing in the novel fought to protect Yi Ying. Agree that the drama had a far more manipulative take on Jing's intentions. In the drama, it was clear he had control over how to punish Yi Ying and manipulated her into choosing a path that allowed him to be free to be with Xiao Yao.

In general, I find drama!Jing to be more clearly manipulative than novelJing. For example, the drama makes clear the Jing owns the Lirong gambling dens where the slave death matches are held.

 liddi:

However, her internal monologue after the 37 years, clearly indicated that her refusal to allow him to pass air to her that previous time was because of the 15-year promise. She had already experienced arousal when he drank her blood in the healing pool before that, so she was aware of her feelings towards him. As such, it stands to reason that she was afraid that if he did kiss her, she would fall even deeper, and not be able to keep the 15-year promise. Not that it did her much good anyway, seeing he still entered her dreams regardless.

This is why I don't always trust Xiao Yao's internal monologues to tell the whole truth.  She clearly didn't believe anything would come of the 15 year promise when she made it and was ready to back out at the first obstacle. I see both her promise to CX and her fear of abandonment as more important obstacles to her giving XL a chance than the 15-year promise.

Perhaps XY's internal monologue contains a lie of omission, or perhaps XY's loyalty to CX and her fear of abandonment was what caused her to make the 15 year promise in the first place.

 liddi:

Just to share the gorgeous picture my daughter drew for me for 七夕 Qixi today, in celebration of our mutual love for Mao Qiu and of course, his master:

Too cute! Your daughter is very talented :)

 Kokuto:

Obviously, I'm falling down on the job, for not examining these videos more closely when they aired. ;p

Now I want to go back and look at the ones for Season 1.  I was just looking at one of them, where XY basically yanks XL into the frame with here and then they stand posing and smiling, like a wedding picture.

I think I remember seeing the clip you're talking about with XY yanking XL into the frame somewhere. Yeah, I think they do a lot of hinting of the true love line and the ultimate fates of the characters in these video extras.

 liddi:

Just to share the gorgeous picture my daughter drew for me for 七夕 Qixi today, in celebration of our mutual love for Mao Qiu and of course, his master:

Awwwww how beautiful!! So fluffy! Baby Liddi is so good at drawing!

 Rain_83223:

Oh man, just when I thought I had moved on from this story... I just finished rewatching Titanic for the n-th time. However, this time I couldn't help but notice so many striking parallels that unfortunately reminded me of this story once again :(

You should read AH's fan fic.

AH - RETURNING THE HEART OF THE OCEAN, REUNITING WITH YOU (XY and XL)

Summary:  This fic is based on the novel and is canon-compliant. The storyline is inspired by the 1997 film Titanic and by Ah Heng and Chi You’s final moments in chapter 36 of Lost You Forever.

Two thousand years after leaving Xuan Yuan for the ocean, Xiao Yao is nearing the end of a long life. But the discovery of a long-hidden treasure raises questions that send Xiao Yao on a new journey. As the answers fall into place, Xiao Yao finally shares Xiang Liu’s story. At the place where he made his last stand, an elderly Xiao Yao returns the tokens of his gifts. And on the ocean's surface, a young goddess and a white-haired demon reunite under the bright glow of a rising full moon.

 atmospheres:

Kim Woobin for XL. He hardly ever does tv shows anymore so a special guest star type role is perfectly suited for his work schedule. Also, he kind of played a XL-lite character in The Heirs and basically stole that show and every scene he was in so he's one of the few actors I think could carry it off. On the other hand, he might be too big of a name to do an idol drama at this point in his career and I don't think he's ever done a costume drama before.

It is so good to see  Kim Woo Bin return to the entertainment industry in good health! I dropped The Heirs very early on in the drama so I had very little to no impression of Choi Young Do - what you are saying makes me wonder what I missed out on. However, I have watched him in Uncontrollably Fond and he was excellent there and made me cry buckets. Just as you said, I don't recall him in a sageuk before, so I am having a hard time trying to imagine him in one. Never say never though. When TJC was first cast, I had massive difficulties reconciling him with Xiang Liu, and now I can't imagine anyone else as him. 

 plor20:

I would vote Lee Do Hyun as my XL—hands down. XD. He has a pretty face, and like Tan, he stole the show in Hotel del Luna despite having the least amount of screentime (even less than Tan). For CX, I would vote for Lee Jae Wook, and for Jing... hmmm... maybe someone a bit better at acting but not entirely useless, like Park Hyung Sik. All three of these actors are relatively established in idol dramas, with Lee Jae Wook and Lee Do Hyun already considered really strong actors, and have already been appearing in indie and netflix films.

Interesting choices! I am not very familiar with Lee Do Hyun - saw him as Shin Ha Kyun's younger self in Beyond Evil and didn't watch Hotel del Luna long enough for him to show up.  I can definitely see Lee Jae Wook as Cang Xuan, but not so much Park Hyung Sik as Jing (had a good laugh over your criteria for this role). 

To be honest, I am quite out of touch with kdramaland - only watched one kdrama Revenant last year, and that was because of scriptwriter Kim Eun Hee. Very unfamiliar with the newer actors, and most probably have not seen their works too. So off the top of my head, while trying to make them close age-wise...

Kim Beom comes to mind when I think of Xiang Liu - I can see him pull off both Xiang Liu and Fangfeng Bei, especially after his Yi Rang in Tale of the Nine-Tailed.  Another contender (based solely on aesthetics since I have not sat down and watched any drama of his) is Byeon Woo Seok, after seeing clips of him as Ryu Si-Oh in Strong Girl Nam Soon, and Lee Pyo in Moonshine. Fun fact - apparently Byeon Woo Seok played Hae Soo's scumbag modern day boyfriend in Moon Lovers - so there's that sliiiight connection to Tong Hua's works already in the pocket lol.

Cang Xuan - perhaps Seo In Guk, who has delivered strong, emotional performances in various roles and emotes so well with his eyes, something I feel is pertinent to Cang Xuan's characterisation.  

Jing - Park Bo Gum perhaps, though I can see him as a Cang Xuan too. Actually having a combination of Seo In Guk and Park Bo Gum brings back memories of Hello Monster (I Remember You), which boasts one of the most memorable sibling relationships, far more than the romance.

Another question would be - who to play Xiao Yao. To that end, I honestly have no clue. Kim Tae-ri but I can't see her in an idol drama. Go Youn Jung?

In the drama, Tian'er tells Xiao Yao that Shiqi would visit the Qingshui Town family every couple of years. But what about Jing's 37 year coma? One possibility is that the Shiqi who visited them was actually Xiang Liu in disguise.