Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 Kokuto:

Aren't these characters are more supernatural and mythological, than pseudo historical?  I mean, they are gods and monsters.

I think that there are inconsistencies in the revised edition as  to which characters were renamed, and which ones retained, not simply based on which ones are historical vs mythological. From the choices made, it appears that prominent characters (historical or mythological) are mostly renamed to avoid misconception. However, those whose names are retained are not necessarily mythological.

Out of the 5 gods in mythology, 2 were renamed (Zhu Rong, Hou Tu) while the other 3 were retained (Ju Mang, Ru Shou, Yu Jiang).

后土 Hou Tu, the former Shen Nong general who saved the Yellow Emperor from assassination two hundred years prior during his visit to the Middle Plains (Vol 2 Ch10 - Chapter 27), is the deity of all land and earth according to Chinese mythology. The name was changed to 珞迦 Luo Jia in the revised edition.

祝融 Zhu Rong, one of the great generals of Shen Nong who chose to die rather than surrender to Xuan Yuan, grandfather to Feng Long and Xin Yue, is both a historical figure and mythological character, according to Chinese tradition. He was renamed as 炎灷 Yan Zhuan.

Traditional legend posits Shao Hao as the son of the Yellow Emperor who ruled for 84 years before being succeeded by his brother's son, Zhuan Xu. There is also a site traditionally claimed to be his tomb in the eastern outskirts of Qufu, at the Shandong province. Yet, his name was retained.

It is noteworthy that the credits in the drama refers to Shao Hao only as 皓翎王 Haoling King. Perhaps therein lies the additional name change, in addition to the changes in the country names, to distance itself from historical figures. Do you remember whether the Haoling king's name was mentioned to be Shao Hao anywhere in the drama?

 H19279:

in the novel, he was called with  his real name (by others) only once by Ah Heng. However according to the leaked script, chapter 36 when he brought XY to the dessert was not adapted . Thus, i don’t think the name Shao Hao will be ever mentioned in the drama

Yes, the novel (original and revised) refers to him as Shao Hao. The leaked script does refer to him as Gao Xin Shao Hao, and the actor refers to himself as Gao Xin Shao Hao as well on the last day of filming, which indicates that at point of filming, the name was still retained. However, going by the credits, it does look like he was unilaterally renamed to be just Haoling king in the finalised version of the drama.

 liddi:

I look forward to reading it - thank you!

Here is my translation process. Having gone through this process, I've come realized I have a few edits to my initial translation too. I will try my best to explain and color code too. This part 1 and will post part 2 soon.

Tushan Jing: Evaluations and Opinions  - Part 1. 

Months ago @liddi asked whether the character of Jing has any qualities that would explain why XL would leave him as a companion for XY. I thought about this (probably more than I should have); about why I disliked him this time around when I was neutral to have a positive impression of him previously. Of course, when something bothered me, I had to pick at it until it made sense. Fair warning, if you like Jing or have a good impression of him, you may want to skip my posts. And I know that this is the YaoLiu thread, but in this lull, while we wait for Season 2, just let me borrow this place to work through my thoughts on this novel as a whole. Besides, it’s cray cray out there and this is the safest place for my ramblings :-). This is to all my ladies here who have been waiting for me to get my act together and complete this piece :-)

When I think about the character of Tushan Jing two particular Vietnamese terms come to mind: nhu nhược and hèn. The first term is used to describe a man who is weak in character, lacking in decisiveness and determination and the will to take action when needed. The second term denotes a person who hides when faced with difficult situations due to cowardice – they either hide or act in ways that are immoral or unethical to be contemptible. In evaluating this character, I looked at the character set-up, motivation and the choices/actions Jing made at key points in the story. For me, it always comes down to action/behaviour when difficult choices need to be made. Words, intentions and others’ evaluation are secondary - it's your actions that are the most truthful barometer of who you are. Sometimes the options before you are horseshit and cow-dung, but how you make those choices showed your values and character.

Born into wealth and privilege, Jing was feted, praised, coddled and marked out as heir to the Tushan clan from birth. He was the perfect biddable child whose life was pretty much mapped out for him and he was happy to go along with the decisions that his grandmother and mother made for him including choosing FFYY as his bride-to-be. If Hou hadn’t thrown a spanner into his perfect world, Jing probably would have happily continued on the predetermined path as set out by his grandmother.

The worst torture Hou inflicted on Jing wasn’t the physical one to his flesh, but the psychological attacks on his sense of self and worth. Hou wanted to show Jing that without his Tushan name and Qing Qui Young Master strapping, he was nothing. And Hou succeeded. Our sense of self depends to some extend on how other evaluates us. However, someone with a strong sense of self is less impacted by external opinions; Jing's sense of self was weak and it was heavily reliant on how others saw him. Also note that it only took two years for Hou to “kill” Jing’s spirit driving him to the point of waiting for death. If you compare what Jing went through with what Xiang Liu, Xiao Yao and Cang Xuan went through what does this suggest about his character? To me, it shows weakness, a lack of fighting spirit and grit – probably from a combination of nature and nurture.

When Xiao Yao rescued him at the start of the novel, Tushan Jing was already dead – Qing Qui Young Master had ceased to exist. In his place was a beggar who was waiting to die. When Xiao Yao blushed at his naked body the man formerly known as Tushan Jing was reborn as Yip Shi Qi (the name given to him by Xiao Yao). From that moment, Xiao Yao became his reason for living. YSQ lives for Xiao Yao because he needs her to continue to exist. His sense of self and self-worth now comes from her care and acceptance. Without her, he would cease to exist again. The problem with relying on someone else for your sense of self is that it’s an incredibly precarious existence. For Jing to heal and grow, he needs to rediscover his worth and meaning beyond Xiao Yao.

At the beginning of the novel, Jing chooses avoidance. He refused to return to his family, refused to address what had happened, choosing instead to be YSQ so that he could be with Xiao Yao – his living, breathing life preserver :-). This was Jing’s character set-up and motivation. Throughout the novel, there were various moments where Jing faces difficult choices, how Jing chooses to act shows whether Jing was heading towards healing and growth or whether he stayed dependent on Xiao Yao to validate his existence. His actions also revealed his character. As you read through this, just remember that it’s not any single incidence, but the character’s consistent action across multiple incidences that tell us who he is.  

1.      Jing promised Xiao Yao to back her up in the confrontation between her and Ah Nian and Cang Xuan. However, once he realises their identities, he hides because he doesn’t want his identity to be revealed and has to return to being TSJ. This is Jing avoiding facing his problem, choosing instead to continue hiding away. Jing also can’t risk leaving Xiao Yao because he needs her to exist. So Jing chose to break his promise to Xiao Yao. At this moment, Jing cared more about remaining as YSQ to be by Xiao Yao's side than Xiao Yao’s potential safety and keeping his promise to her. If Jing didn’t want XY to make an enemy out of Cang Xuan, he didn’t need to run and hide away to do that. This shows that Jing’s promise/words are cheap – he’ll make them when it’s beneficial to him, but when they become inconvenience, he’ll discard them. Untrustworthy and dishonourable.

2.      The infamous 15-year promise in Dragon Bone Prison. Jing has a fiancée, whether or not he wanted this fiancée is irrelevant to the fact that he was not a free man to make any promise or proposal to another woman. But Jing was afraid of losing Xiao Yao – he came close to it when Xiao Yao attempted to run away from CX. Jing made numerous attempts to find out XY’s true face during that ordeal but to no avail. Things were no longer simple – she may no longer be WXL, and he can’t stay by her side as YSQ. So Jing wanted to lock Xiao Yao down to give himself the best chance to be with her as possible. In his desperation not to lose XY, Jing chose to act dishonourably and selfishly – placing the woman that he “loves” into the role of the “other woman”. Once again, it is about his needs rather than Xiao Yao’s. The first time Shao Hao met Jing, he brought up Jing’s engagement. This made it pretty clear how her family would view this promise. If this was the Regency era, Shao Hao or Cang Xuan would have challenged Jing to a duel at dawn for his flagrant disrespect to XiaoYao with such a proposal. Remember as well that the promise is that Jing will return YQS to XY after 15 years. Jing has no intention of healing; he just wants to remain XY’s YQS and he also knows that this is what appealed to XY.  

The other thing that I want to bring up here is that Jing knew that breaking off his engagement wouldn’t be an easy task - that why he asked for 15 years. Subsequent events suggested that Jing knew that he didn’t have the power to call the shot; and that the real power lies with his grandmother. Jing was essentially counting on his grandmother to grand her permission out of love for him. This is just preposterous. Imagine trying to make a deal with someone to sell them a piece of land when you don’t actually have the final decision-making power to sell this land. I would call such a person a scammer; a scoundrel. Jing was making a promise/deal with XY based on hope and prayer.

3.         Once Xiao Yao returns to her princess identity, Jing can no longer stay by her side in his YSQ’s identity. He needed his TSJ identity back. Jing was not returning to his family of his own volition. He wasn’t doing this out of a sense of responsibility or filial piety. He wasn’t choosing to face Hou and his trauma – he wasn’t attempting to heal and grow. Jing reluctantly returned to his family because he needed the TSJ’s identity so he could continue to be with Xiao Yao. Xiao Yao is still Jing’s reason for existing and his primary motive is till all about XY. If being YSQ allows him to be with Xiao Yao, he would do that. If being Tushan Jing allows him to be with Xiao Yao, he will do that. You should not base your sense of self/identity on the needs of another person. Jing is a very sick man.

4.          Jing chose to support Cang Xuan in his quest for power and the throne despite his clan’s creed of staying out of politics. Was some of this out of ideal? Jing claimed so (do you think this man’s word can be trusted?). Jing's motivation in the early days was very much about bringing Xiao Yao closer to him and maintaining his access to Xiao Yao by helping Cang Xuan. Cang Xuan realized this as well. There were times that Xiao Yao thought about distancing herself from Jing, but ended up seeing him at Xang Xuan’s behest. Jing was aware of the benefits of helping Cang Xuan for this very purpose. This creed was there to ensure the clan's longevity. The Tushan is a merchant clan, and tying themselves to any single ruler is not a good thing – if this ruler falls, the Clan will fall as well; maintaining neutrality is the best course of action for the Tushan Clan. As an individual, Jing is free to do as he wishes, but as the heir to the Tushan Clan, he should be more prudent. Particularly in the early days when Cang Xuan’s position was precarious. Jing knows how to calculate gains and losses – would he have supported Cang Xuan so early if Xiao Yao wasn’t an incentive? Think about this character’s motivation up to this point; I don’t think he would have. So to ensure that he can keep Xiao Yao by his side Jing willingly and knowingly placed his clan into a potentially undesirable situation. We know that eventually his clan came on board and things worked out, but that was not the case at this point of the story.

5.         Jing even goes against his grandmother’s direct edict, continuing to support Cang Xuan in private. Apparently, Jing is capable of being “unfilial” as long as he can do it in private :-). It isn’t simply filial piety and concern for his grandmother and his clans that prevent Jing from breaking the engagement to FFYY, rather it is his inability to assert himself against his grandmother that keeps him trapped. Jing was a grown man who was still under his grandmother’s thumb. Part of becoming an adult is successfully breaking free of parental influence and control, and being able to effectively set and defend your boundaries against your parents/parental figures’ unreasonable demands. If you failed to do that, that’s just you failing to be an adult. 600-700 years and Jing hasn’t managed to become his own man – if he had, he wouldn’t be in such a mess. In many ways, you teach people how to treat you and in his 600-700 years, Jing had taught his grandmother that he was a biddable child who was happy to go along with her arrangement; probably because of everything that he was getting, he was happy to be getting. To me, this suggests someone who doesn’t have a strong sense of self, strong opinions, strong personality. Not everyone who bumped up against filial piety flailed the way that Jing does, so using it as an excuse for Jing’s failure is just that, an excuse. Like I said, he’s nhu nhược and hèn.

A short intermission. have some baby Yoda to cleanse your eyes.....

6.        The Plum Forest Assassination. Jing’s shining moment. Jing did not once try to get himself and Xiao Yao out of harm's way. Jing was born with a special sight that allowed him to see through formations, he could potentially have gotten both himself and Xiao Yao out of there, and yet he didn’t even once think to try. Xiao Yao was “dead”, and Jing had no more reason to live. Jing actively chose to commit suicide; he wanted to be her YSQ and wherever she went, he would follow her even in death. Jing essentially has not achieved any healing or growth. Without Xiao Yao, he is still the beggar awaiting death when we first meet him at the start of the story. Everything that Jing had done to date (including helping Cang Xuan) was motivated primarily by one goal – to be able to stay by Xiao Yao’s side. Jing’s action here also showed his nhu nhược nature – giving up at the first sign of a challenge. Jing assumed that just because his (weak) spiritual power couldn’t save Xiao Yao, that meant that no one else out there could. Jing was so focused on himself – on losing his reason for living; that he didn’t even spare a thought to fight to give Xiao Yao a chance to live by seeking other possibilities. Not for the first time I wonder if Jing actually loves Xiao Yao, or if he merely loves himself. As “delusional” as Cang Xuan was, he thought about Xiao Xiao and he fought to give her a chance. Hell, forget about Cang Xuan, just compared Jing’s behaviour to Xiao Yao’s fighting tooth and nail for survival in this very same scene. This tells you a lot about Jing’s character does it not? When the chips are down, this man does not have the courage or ability to deal with adversity. Spineless and cowardly.

7.       Jing “slept” for 37 years. There was nothing wrong with him physically, he’d just lost his will to live and his spirit was actively seeking death. Responsibility to his clan and filial piety to his grandmother didn’t factor into Jing’s decision. No Xiao Yao means no life for Jing. Jing was finally about to expire when Xiao Yao returned to wake him up. His living, breathing life preserver is back so of course, Jing is also back to life. Just to ram the point home that this man has zero sense of self or self-worth outside of his dependant on Xiao Yao, we have this charming confession: “Even if I have no position in your life, if all I am is your slave, then that is fine with me. I just want to be by your side and look after you.” Google, please search for Jing’s self-respect and dignity! He seems to have misplaced them". I find Jing’s action cowardly and selfish – choosing to avoid, to hide – self-absorbed to the point of contemptible. 37 years of sleeping. Let that sink in. Nhu nhược and hèn.

More about Jing's and this whole dying and sleeping thing here 

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2966529&page=494#p2966529

By this point of the story I was pretty much done with this dude. And if I was ever on this ship, I would have thrown myself overboard and swim to shore :-)

8.       Jing got trapped by his grandmother and FFYY into believing that FFYY was pregnant with his child. This whole situation is effed-up and I do feel sorry for Jing. Unfortunately, Jing once again shows his cowardice by not facing the music and informing Xiao Yao about it. 3 months! He kept it from Xiao Yao for 3 months. I get that he might have been in denial at first, but jeez, at some point you need to put your big girl panties on and face the music. Instead, Jing chose to be a coward and Xiao Yao found out in possibly one of the worst ways possible. Jing couldn’t even protect Xiao Yao at this most basic thing because he was too cowardly to face the truth and take action. How you deal with adversity shows your character. The responsible thing to do here is to let Xiao Yao know and release her from the 15-year promise. The argument that Jing didn’t do this because it would only hurt Xiao Yao is not convincing. Maybe if he had acted honourably in the first instant, he wouldn’t found himself in this mess. Jing set himself up to be judged – if he didn’t ask for that promise, I wouldn’t be judging him for failing to keep the promise and for failing to act honourably here. A bit rich to blame his failure to act appropriately on the pretext of protecting Xiao Yao. Way to deflect responsibility. At each point, you can choose to act differently. Just because you acted dishonourably at point A, that doesn’t mean that you should continue to act poorly at point B because the damage has already been done. Where is this man's sense of responsibility and honour? Where is his spine? Maybe Google needs to help Jing search for these as well. Jing once again showed that it was all about him; he cared more about what he would stand to gain or lose than anything else, including doing right by Xiao Yao. This is love?

9.       Jing found himself unhappily shackled to FFYY. Instead of coming to terms with reality, shoring himself up and finding meaning in his own life, Jing chose to waste away; damaging his health and shortening his life span. This is just a repetition of the 37 years of sleeping. He lost Xiao Yao so Jing has lost the will to live. Character development = zero. To call this character spineless and cowardly is an understatement. Maybe if Jing had been stronger, he would have discovered Hou and FFYY's affair and found a way to get himself out of the situation a lot sooner. We get told that he’s highly intelligent and yet he can’t seem to manage to resolve anything on his own and there are always excuses made for him that we are asked to accept. He’s filial. He’s kind. If you are kind to this point then something has gone seriously wrong. Frankly, it’s just a reflection of his inherent incompetent, spinelessness and cowardliness.

10.        Intelligent Jing couldn’t figure out the situation between Hou and FFYY until his sister-in-law told him. Then he couldn’t figure out a way to resolve the issue. In the end, Xiao Yao has to help him by “seducing” Hou. Jing didn’t really object. I struggled to wrap my head around this. If my partner helped me solve my problem by “seducing” my sister, I would object. We’ll find another way, but there’s no way that I can accept this. My pride wouldn’t let me and I would feel far too ashamed of myself to rest easy with this knowledge. Am I suppose to see this as the two of them working together and Jing trusting Xiao Yao without question? Jing would probably tried to sell it as that. Unfortunately, it just left me feeling icky. Where is this man's pride? Does he even have any? Does he have no thoughts of his own and will just go along with Xiao Yao’s edict? Even Cang Xuan felt ashamed for using Xiao Yao as a matrimonial price to help him gain power, and yet, Jing showed not a single sign of shame or embarrassment. I guess Jing doesn’t care how just as long as he can be free to be with Xiao Yao. This character comes across as so self-serving and lacking any basic honour and self-respect. And, once again I find myself questioning Jing's supposed love for Xiao Yao. Yes, Xiao Yao made her own decision, however as someone who claimed to love her, you would have thought that Jing would be a pain to see her opening herself to gossip and ridicule. You’d think that he would have wanted to protect her against that and his own brother’s leering attention. I just can’t with this man.

 HeadInTheClouds:

Tushan Jing: Evaluations and Opinions - Part 1.

OMG!  It's here!  Off to read it!

Wait. Part 1??

 Kokuto:

OMG!  It's here!  Off to read it!

Wait. Part 1??

I'm still editing. I have so many opinions on this character that I'm struggling to fit it all in and find the right way to express myself :-). Give me half an hour

Tushan Jing: Evaluations and Opinions  - Part 2.

11.       Jing and his treatment of his “bestie” Feng Long when it comes to Xiao Yao. Jing’s bullshit that he did it because he knew that Feng Long would understand and forgive him are self-serving justification. Jing apologizing after the fact does not change the nature of his actions. Perhaps Jing should try not to act dishonourably instead of counting on people to be the bigger person and forgiving him. I have obviously been living my life wrong all these years; should just stab my friends in the back when it’s convenient for me then apologize afterwards. Jing’s treatment of Feng Long and frankly his actions throughout is not that of a junzi. As to his claim that he did it for Xiao Yao’s sake. Is it not clear yet that Jing is all about Jing? Is it not clear yet that this man’s words are not trustworthy? Maybe 10% of it is for Xiao Yao’s sake, the other 90% is about making sure that she is free so that he still can have a chance even though he was married at the time. He even admitted to it, but he cloaked it as the secondary reason. This is something that you need to watch out for with this character – his real motive is hidden beneath the “primary” more acceptable reason. Sneaky, cunning fox.

12.       Jing refuses to treat his physical scars, his voice and his hand. Was this a reflection of Jing proudly showing that he’d met adversity and overcome it or just a physical manifestation of his continued unhealed emotional/mental wounds? These wounds belong to YSQ and Jing will hold on to them. These wounds also act as a constant reminder for Xiao Yao as well. What is even more troubling is that Jing’s voice and his music are part of his power. So in refusing to heal, Jing deliberately weakened himself - look at what happened in his confrontation with Hou. He can’t protect himself, how is he going to protect Xiao Yao – the woman that he constantly claims to love? He clings to her for his existence, and yet he doesn’t seek to protect her. He loves her, but he doesn’t seek to be able to protect her, just to die with her? I guess Jing doesn’t care if he lives or dies as long as he gets to be with Xiao Yao; if he dies before she does no problem. If she dies before he does, he’ll just die with her ala The Plum Forest Assassination. Jing’s love is short-sighted and self-serving. He doesn’t seem to care about Xiao Yao outside of what she could do for him. Does Jing even love Xiao Yao, or does he merely love himself?

13.        And lucky 13. Jing’s dumping all of his responsibilities onto a child so that he can run off with Xiao Yao at the end of the novel. This act alone is minus 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 points towards his character. Children are not a hobby. You can't just be a father whenever you feel like it and ditch them when it's inconvenient for you. Jing once again demonstrated that his promise means nothing - when it’s no longer convenient for him, it will be discarded. Jing once again showed that his sense of responsibility is non-existence (where’s Google? Jing needs help again). Imagine throwing all of your responsibilities onto a young child so you can be free. Imagine being so cowardly that you didn’t meet this child in person after calling him your son for decades, before dumping everything onto him. It makes you wonder if Jing actually cares about anyone or if he merely used them for his convenience and cast them aside once they are no longer of value. Jing is a merchant after all – gains and losses are his stock in trade. And no, his loving Xiao Yao and placing her first is a piss-poor excuse in this instant. All that does is show his lack of development, his spinelessness and his inability to tell right from wrong.

From points 1 to 13, Jing's focus has never changed – being with Xiao Yao is his raison d'etre - he will break promises, and discard responsibility, honour and dignity to reach his objective. His choice and actions at each step showed his character – spineless, cowardly and self-serving. His character defects cannot be excused away by trauma either. Jing was already an adult when his traumatic experience occurred, and one, two or three incidences may be chalked up to circumstances, but when you see a consistent pattern of behaviour – that’s personality and character.

Maybe you think that I’m too harsh on Jing, that I’m choosing to see him in the most negative interpretations. Am I? I’m not judging Jing on some new-fangled metric that I made up to make things difficult for him. I’m judging his actions based on my existing set of values. To quote Angela Mayou, “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” Less poetically: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then maybe it’s just a duck. Jing has shown me over and over again who he is. I’ll be a fool, not to believe him.

The insidious thing about this character is that his true nature is hidden beneath a glossy, beautiful veneer. His Tushan Young Master image of intelligence and talents – we get taken in by this, forgetting that just because someone is intelligent, talented and good-looking, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are honourable and decent. And because of his traumatic experience, Xiao Yao’s (and the readers) default is to be sympathetic and pity him. So all of his failures and weaknesses get excused away – Jing was kind, Jing was filial, Jing tried his best. And Jing, being the intelligent person that he is played into this with Xiao Yao – the manipulative behaviour that is very easy to miss. There were numerous instances in the novel where other characters commented on Jing’s ability to be two-faced – from Hou to Xiao Yao, Feng Long and Xiang Liu.

For a while, I was baffled by what I thought of as inconsistencies in this character. He’s intelligent and cunning/manipulative, and yet, he’s so helpless and can’t solve any of his problems. Until someone reminded me that being intelligent and cunning isn’t mutually exclusive from being nhu nhược and hèn. Jing isn’t an evil or vindictive person, but neither do I see him as a “good”. Jing is very true to his cunning fox nature and merchant upbringing. Gains and losses are how he operates. He doesn’t give things away without benefiting from them. Or if those things are of no importance to him anyway. But if he has to actually give up something important, that’s a different story. Jing said as much to Feng Long.  It’s easy to be kind and good when it doesn’t cost you anything. The willingness to sacrifice your interest for others is where the difference lies. And Jing is entirely too self-serving to actually sacrifice anything of value for someone else’s benefit. Even all the things that he does for Xiao Yao is for his own benefits because he needs her to validate his existence.  

This character did not achieve any growth for the entirety of the novel. True to his spineless and cowardly nature, he never once attempted to face his issues and tried to heal and grow from them. Nope, he clung on to Xiao Yao and used her to continue his existence.  When they were discovered in the maze, Jing was described as tightly locked to XY, his body like climbing vines tightly wrapped around Xiao Yao. The relationship between climbing vines and trees is a form of parasitism - where one benefits at the expense of the other. One guess as to who actually benefits between Jing and Xiao Yao. This is the nature of their relationship.  

So, after all of that. Do you think Jing actually loves Xiao Yao, or does he merely love himself?