Kimsamsoom

I would not give the ratings too much merit, since we don't know how MDL's new algo's really work.

I would rather focus on where the majority of the reviews lean towards. And I think most people watching will at least read some of the more helpful reviews, and make an informed decision on their own.

Until when did you question NJH was the main lead?

The promotional posters kind of made that obvious did it not?

Language

Hahaha :)

no problem :)

It's hard to explain, but I do enjoy the social aspect of the comment sections. I'm quite a social person, even though I am inherently introverted. And this lockdown situation with the Covid, has made me yearn for social aspects that is not readily found these days. This comment sections gives me an outlet to debate and discuss different POV's with people of different origins and ideologies. And I've always loved writing, but just never pursued it, so the comment sections gives me a medium to dabble a bit.

And, even though Start Up has been done for almost a month, this comment sections still remains one of the more active sections on MDL. So I like to visit every now and then to see what is up.

I actually have zero problems if people write comment saying they like the show, or they hated it. When someone likes a show, I'll most likely give a generic "I'm glad you liked it" comment.

The comments that make me want to reply, are the ones who call the comment section Toxic, or say the negative reviewers are biased and not to be trusted, and the like. I feel, they are like personal attacks, and I feel the need to respond.

Yes, I think enough people like you felt that HJP never stood a chance. But during the live airings, we wrote many theories, and use metaphors, symbolism, and literary plot devices, that normally carry meaning and important in other kdramas, that showed fans there was hope for a plot twist. In fact, the writers kept leaving crumbs for fans to follow; all for it to lead to a dead end.

I personally would have dropped this much earlier if not for HJP. You see, I've watched HBO's Silicon Valley, and Steve Martin's Roxanne, was my all time Cyrano adaptation. So I had big expectations. To see the script butchered like this, has left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

I'm the same way, I sympathize more with HJP, and I feel it very hard to feel sorry for NDS.

But as I said earlier, our opinions on NDS and HJP, are clearly reflections of you and I's personal experiences. Something in my life has made me see HJP in a more sympathetic light, and something in yours has made you see HJP in a worse light. But that's the thing about opinions, as unbias as we want to be, we can't control how our minds, and life experiences filters the shows we watch. And that is why every Kdrama audience experience will be different.

I think that is an MDL problem. They should make the overall rating an average of the four criteria. When I rated my review, I made sure it was close to the average of my four scores. I doubt most people went to this trouble.

My mistake if I made assumptions, but feel free to explain more if you want.

Yes, this is certainly a possibility. I've seen too many Oscar nominated, or Oscar winning films that were just plain boring or not to my taste. That is why I give most dramas a 1-2 episode trial run to see if I will like it.

Initially I had heard some not great things about Suzy and how bland her acting was, so I was apprehensive to start this show. But the first episode gripped me, and it was a nice ride for a few episodes, until it wasn't. But I became too invested in HJP's character to drop it at that point.

Before I watch a new show, I will read certain reviews. And for me the determining factors for me to even give the show a pilot trial are the following:

1. Does it have a happy ending.
2. Is it a genre I'm not a fan of. Noona romances, BL, Suspense, Horror and etc..

And finally because of Start Up, I am adding a new determining factor.

3. Does this show have a love triangle, and how long does it last for.

I took a short break for Christmas :) I'm not in here a lot anymore, since I'm following two other shows now. Plus it's still the holiday seasons, so it will probably lessen. But when I see some non troll statements over here from nice NDS fans, I don't mind chiming in. After all, we've gone through the same journey of watching the show. Just because we have a difference of opinion, doesn't mean we can't get along.

If it's hate speech or incoherent ramblings, I would just ignore it, as it normally goes nowhere.

I am a little irritated in myself. I had just intended to watch KDrama for a little bit of fun, but now it has tapped into my addictive personality, and Kdrama is all I can think about these days. It's very distracting, and I'm trying to push myself away from this.

Everyone has their personal taste on what they like or not. Just because you don't agree with the comment section does not make them wrong, nor does it make your view right.

Both are opinions, and both should be respected.

You can also go to a show with a positive review section, and hate the show. It goes both ways, But with your newfound enlightenment. You should just read comment and reviews as entertainment rather than factual determinants.

I'm glad you liked it though :)))

"The reason I specifically pointed out the 1/10 rating was because one of the top reviews is rated as such, which for me makes no sense. If the OST and acting is good, then that’s already enough to give it a higher rating. And yes, it’s no masterpiece either."

Out of the 11 top reviews (first page of reviews), 3 of them were rated 1-2/10, and 2 of them were rated 10/10. It's not a huge difference here. The rest of the reviews are between 6-8.5/10.

"While reading some of the comments and reviews, the disappointment of Dosan ending up with Dalmi was often worded as if it was a surprising heartbreak after rooting for Jipyeong. I didn’t say Jipyeong was an evil unredeemable character, but for me personally, throughout the drama, the way he was written literally not even once made me be on his side or to sympathise with him. I started disliking him from how he was portrayed as a teenager. Yes, he was having a hard time, but I can’t stand the way he acted towards the grandma because of the money."

Yes, I agree, some of how HJP added, I would not do as well. But if your going to nail HJP for this, you should also criticize NDS for his actions, because a lot of what NDS does, I would not do also. And there is a fairly large list of things NDS does that made me dislike NDS, because that is just not how people are suppose to act. His treatment of his kind parents are a constant sore point with me.

"It’s not that “according to me” he didn’t believe in Dalmi, but he just didn’t. The way he ran to her rescue after hearing about the reporter was a clear sign of it for me."

How do you see this as HJP not believe in SDM, but see the 3-4 times that NDS did this, and not see it as well? Seems like double standard... If you think HJP doing this shows a mistrust of SDM capabilities, then the 3-4 times NDS has done this should also clearly show this as well.

"l in the beginning, even though three years had passed. Sure, his character developed and he was able to get that stick out of his ass and revealed his more gentle side in the end, but in my eyes that’s not enough to suddenly start liking him after he’s been a big negative Nancy the whole story."

I find it interesting that this statement can also relate to NDS. He exhibited very little character growth after 3 years, except to be richer. We see many scenes in EP. 14 - 15, where the old Dosan is still there. And, I personally felt that after Ep. 8, the writer has been force feeding scenes with NDS to make him look better at the detriment of SDM's character unfortunately, and I just couldn't buy it after all the immature things he has done in the earlier episodes. So we have similar views here, just on different characters.

"That being said, I didn’t sympathise with Dosan too much either, but I think he was a better fit for Dalmi in the end. They had a similar mindset when it came to business and whether it’s too unrealistic for the real world or not, they understood each other."

Yes, I think SDM and NDS deserve each other. SDM, near the end, just was not a very likeable person to be honest, so I was ok with her ending up with NDS.

"I think you read too deeply into what I said initially. I’m not calling anyone who thinks differently crazy, I was just stating another opinion because i don’t agree with the Jipyeong lovers."

Your initial statement appeared that, anyone who didn't agree with your POV, and rated the show 1/10, was suffering from "ridiculous biased hate".

For me, those kind of assertions are a detriment. For me, I will not judge someone who rates TKEM a 10/10, nor will I judge a person who rates PBIO a 1/10. That is their opinion, and I don't have to agree with them. Nor should I lambaste them for rating the way they do.

The things you mentioned about HJP, how he may have changed after 15 years and what not. And how HJP may not have been sincere, since he had a reason for writing the letters, are certainly valid points.

But I'd also like to point out some other valid points. The way NDS acts around SDM, has me a bit worried, that he also may change due to the following actions of NDS:

1. NDS relinquishes all decision making to SDM
2. NDS is always quite subservient to SDM
3. NDS from the looks of it, is more in love with SDM than the other way around.
4. NDS has made SDM his dream, his trophy, and his goal.

So, from experience, I personally have seen the lengths, and the measures that guys will do when they love the girl. Guys often put their best foot forward when courting women, it's just human nature. So SDM, just like many girls in society, fall for the NDS. And although NDS is being genuine here, we don't know how he will act in the future, when he has achieved his goals with SDM. If anything, we have seen when things are going great, NDS can be a warm, funny, and confident person. But we've also been privy to his darker side. When things don't go his way, his violent tendencies, his insecurities, and his jealous nature has manifested itself before, who is to say it won't manifest again? Remember that he doesn't actually go through a character transformation that shows that he is able to cope better with his emotions. And this is shown in EP. 15 where he feels inferior to HJP, and how he wants to make SDM his trophy/dream.

Understandably the company is doing well, they are rich, the family is whole, life is well, so they would have little reason to fight. But it's because of this exact situation that I have doubts. If they showed NDS, being punished for his mistake him being remorseful, him having to go thru hell to be with SDM. Then I would argue that SDM and NDS have a strong foundation for their love to survive future problems. But because their love is based on a lot of miscommunications, insecurities, and unknown reasons, I have a feeling the foundation is not as solid.

If SDM's love for NDS is majorly based on her career advancement. Shouldn't she also love HJP as well? HJP was also a big reason she is able to achieve her dreams. His many advices, and actions, literally saved SST, and helped SDM get to where she is to achieve her dreams. And once she finds out HJP is the man of the letter, and realizes that HJP also has flaws, should she not have fallen for him as well?

I think that's the issue with the writing. The reasons you bring up of why SDM falls for NDS, can easily be applied to HJP as well. In other love triangles I've seen, there is at least 50-60% of factors, events, results that are different for the ML, and that is why the FL chooses him. In NDS and HJP's case, there is a lot of overlap.

The writer could have done a better job of explaining why SDM loves NDS, as I feel it's not clear for most viewers. If the fans have to write theories and explanations of why SDM loves NDS, then it wasn't made clear in the show then. And this falls on the writer's shoulders. And the line that SDM's says "Just because" just doesn't help. I even heard it has become a meme in Korea.

I think you may have misunderstood what xiaoxia was implying.

The father, who was shown in Ep. 1 to have such an important part of SDM's childhood, and probably the sole reason she chose to stay with the father during the divorce proceedings, had virtually no impact after the first episode.

No real mention, no real importance. He is mentioned sparingly in the latter episodes, but those mentions had nothing to do with improving or giving depth to SDM's character.

In fact the only person who seems crushed by the father's death is Grandma. I also felt, it was a bit of a disconnect considering how important the father seemed to the Seo family at the beginning.

To give you an example, SDM names it Chung Myung company after the father. But you know who points this out? A 3rd party cameo appearance. It would have given SDM much more depth, if he had even 1-2 lines of dialogue explaining he wanted to dedicate the company name after his father, or something like that, or how his father was a big motivation for her starting a startup, or geez, anything bout the father really. But we get nothing, in fact they could have just taken away his death in the 1st episode, and given him a death offscreen and it would not have changed anything with how useless his memory ended up being.

First off, the 1/10 ratings represent such a tiny portion of the overall ratings. 2% according to the stats. So this is like not even 200 people out of 8,700 user ratings. And your going to find a lot of Kdrama that has this similar percentage of 1/10 ratings. Now, if there was let's say 15% of people rating it 1/10, then you'd have a point, but it's not. You state the show is neither the best, nor the worst, yet more than 20% of the people rated this all 10/10's, meaning that 20% of people thought Start Up was a masterpiece. I'm sure you must disagree with the 10/10 rating's as well right?

I think you said it best, it ended up being your typical Kdrama generic plot. The first few episodes made it seemed like it had more depth, complexity, than it ended up having. So people were understandably disappointed to be teased with such great opening episodes, to just suddenly see a steep drop in writing quality, to eventually settle as your typical generic drama plot.

No not really, I think everyone knew that SDM and NDS was endgame. The promotional materials, marketing, and interviews were kind of obvious. And if that wasn't enough, the director/writer pulled out many romantic scenes that pretty much sealed the deal. I mean the lights flickering while NDS is walking in? That is just too obvious...

Weekly during the live airing, fans who wanted the writer to redeem herself, with some sort of plot twist, were just disappointed weekly as it looked less and less that that the show would deviate from your standard Kdrama tropes. The show instead dove into mediocrity with plot holes, one dimensional characters and predictable plot.

I think your take on whether you sided with HJP's backstory or NDS backstory is dependent on your own personal experiences. Whereas the writer wanted the audience to feel sorry, and sympathize with NDS for having a hard childhood, no luck with girls, and low self esteem. The writer making NDS a genius, who wallowed in self pity was contradicted by his supportive parents, supporting friends, and with the fact that every hindrance that comes his way, has been dealt with fairly easily and without ramifications. You are asking your average Kdrama audience to relate someone who is plot wise, a Superman, or in literary nomenclature, a Gary Stu... It's 2020, and people expect more from the shows they watch unfortunately.

The thing is, you stated why you didn't like HJP, and you placed clear reasons for this. That he is a snake, that he is a liar, that he pulled poor innocent Dosan into this mess. HJP belittled Dosan, and also puts down Dalmi. And according to you HJP didn't believe in SDM until the end.

So my question to you is this, if HJP is such an evil character, who should never be given a chance with SDM. How come the majority of fans in both Korea and Internationally loved HJP? Do you mean to say that everyone is crazy, and your the only sane one?

If HJP is such an cruel liar, how come it appears more people empathize and sympathize with him? Maybe you can shed some light on this.

I'm talking more about the review section. Where people go into detail what they liked or disliked about the show.

I agree about the comment section though.

As for the MDL ratings, it's been off the past few weeks. And it's not only Start Up, people from other shows are also unhappy with it and don't feel it's a proper reflection.

As for me, IDC too much about it, as I normally read reviews of shows I want to watch or not, and see if it makes sense. And even if I see mostly negative reviews, and a poor rating, I will still at least watch 1-2 episodes if I'm really curious. Plus I think most people don't even bother reading the comments section and just watch and rate.

Because for the first 4 episodes the lake was empty. It would make sense that when the lake is filled again, the conduit between Bong Hwan and the queen would be re-established.

I wonder that instead of a soul swap, it's a reincarnation instead, and it just so happens the guy in charge of Bong Hwan's soul forgot to erase his memories, and thus he retains his memories of being Bong Hwan.

I firmly believe that Mr. Queen is NOT going to be a line per line remake of the Chinese version, but rather there will be a decent amount of creative changes.

I have a feeling one of the twist we will see is that Bong Hwan and the queen are related. Bong Hwan is the descendant of the queen, in fact, he may be the last known descendant, considering Bong Hwan is an only child. That is why during the water scene, we see the queen swim to him so to save his life.

The real Bong Hwan, as is with most of these soul swap trope in Kdrama will be in a coma, so the queen's soul is free to re-enter her old body and share it with Bong Hwan. And just like with similar soul swap shows, they will rely on each other's strength's to win the political game happening in the kingdom. Because what i've seen from the first few episodes, is that this drama will focus more on behind the scenes political intrigue, rather than bloody rebellion.

The fact that in Ep. 4, Bong Hwan commented on the misogynistic qualities of Joseon era politics. We may see the combined might of the Queen and Bong Hwan try to change not only political landscape of the kingdom, but also the societal values of Joseon area norms, which may see the abolishment of slavery, as we are shown certain scenes of how the household staff are basically slaves, and lead very hard lives.

We are already seeing some Isekai (Japanese genre, where a modern day protagonist enters a old fantastical kingdom) components, such as the ramyeon scene. It is within the realm of possibility that Bong Hwan will only go back to modern day, when he accomplishes what he sets out to do, by literally rewriting history. Remember he knows the history of the king due to his mom being an educator. With the Queen and Grand Queen dowager representing a more traditional political system, Bong Hwan, will attempt to bring a political system similar to what he knows from the Blue House.

The queen and Bong Hwan, having shared the same body for a bit of time, will start rubbing off each other. Bong Hwan will tone down his old personality, and learn more class and humility. While the queen, depressed due to inevitability of her position, will start learning confidence in herself from Bong Hwan. In a way, their personalities will start moving towards the center. So when the king falls in love with he queen, the audience are not confused on who he really loved, Bong Hwan or The queen.

Because what I have noticed in the first episodes is that what really attracts the king to Bong Hwan is his brazenness, unpredictability, and confidence. Unlike most women, Bong Hwan is not afraid to show his more masculine side. This is similar to how some KDrama ML's are attracted to FL's who don't let traditional women stereotypes dictate who they are.

feels too early for that, as the king hasn't change his opinion on the queen quite yet.

Maybe in a few more episodes the queen can come back.

With the lake being full in this episode, what would stop bong hwan from jumping in again?

My only prediction would be that she realizes if she jumps in, the King may be killed for treason or something like that, so he feels guilty.

I believe the sequence would go like this.

Somewhere in the next few episodes, the queens soul will come back, and will share space with Bong Hwan.

The queen, retaining her memories, will fall for her cousin again. But the King acts differently now towards the queen, thanks to Bong Hwan.

The queen starts seeing the king in a different light. Small love triangle. Queen eventually falls for king.

Bong Hwan goes back.

I don't think the king and queen slept together, the king was bluffing.

And it's my understanding Korea doesn't want BL or GL.