First off, I feel your words carry a micro-aggressive tone, and I wanted to believe you were portraying a neutral,…
It's my first time seeing her work, so its interesting that she does these type of things. I'm surprised to be honest, as they don't seem like things I would agree with, but I guess I would need to see the whole body of work to make my judgement.
The fight scene in Start UP was a big thing for a lot of people, and that one act turned a lot of NDS fans into HJP fans overnight. Although I thought it was ridiculous as well, I felt it was consistent with the NDS character as I knew him, so I wasn't surprised. Prior to that his character, already was dropping subtle hints that it was headed into a more immature and destructive path, which I find ironic, because each episodes places him in better and better light in favor of SDM.
NDS as a character had potential to be quite complex if the writer dealt with the mental issues he grapples with. And the codependent relationship SDM and NDS has is hard for people to relate, because in real life, these types of relationship are the ones we try to avoid. It is exhausting being someone's pride, NDS says, and yet that is what he does to SDM, not realizing it, and SDM is ok with it.
Many things could have been done better in Start Up, if the writers addressed even just some of these things, Start Up could have been a solid 8 for me. And the love triangle, as many have said, was unnecessary past Ep. 7. A lot of shows have love triangles that end a lot earlier, and are stronger for it. The love triangle lasting as long as it did was probably Start Up, biggest flaw in most viewers eyes.
First off, I feel your words carry a micro-aggressive tone, and I wanted to believe you were portraying a neutral,…
"Just to clear it out, my commentary to your review wasnt aggressive. While my review on kdrama were partially, the one I wrote to yours wasn't. Perhaps my language barrier made it so and I'd like to apologize for that. However, It doesnt seem to be like you were trying to show respect by calling me out for making only one review and also looking up my review to kdrama itself and taking it personal, while I didnt even said as much in comment section to your review. "Haters" wasn't addressed to you, because you gave a kdrama very low, but fair score. But it's quite ignorant from you not seeing couple of reviews on the page for kdrama rating it 1 based merely on SLS syndrom."
Ok noted, that your review is not meant to be aggressive, but neither was my response. So I will apologize, if you feel my response wasn't respectful enough, I tried my best to make it so. I only made an observation. I looked at your review out of curiosity more than anything, and I was instantly turned off by the "don't believe these haters" line. It is a generalization that hits a lot of people even the ones you did not intend to attack. Because quite simply a hater can be described as someone who did not enjoy the drama. So with that definition, you can classify me as a hater, which i'm not. I am a critic first and foremost, not a hater.
"Yes, Its my first review here, despite the fact that I regularly visit MDL. I've seen few criticisms of my favorite kdramas as well and mostly took them respectfully, despite they werent even top reviews. Moreover, there were plenty of people to defend any other kdrama that I believe were criticized more than needed sometimes. But only in the case of this kdrama I felt urge to point out why its stunningly good, that's why I wrote a review. I didnt created fake accounts to boost ratings,"
You'll have to forgive my assumption then, as A LOT of people have been creating fake accounts for this exact purpose and to spread hate in the comment section by calling people, or the fandom out personally. And i've had my discussions with my fair share of obsessed NDS fans, so I immediately clumped you with them, which is my mistake. But now you are clarifying your stance, then I can respect and accept that. Thank you for doing so.
" I just wrote HONEST review about what I've seen, and wanted people discouraged by plenty hate the show received to go for it and watch it, because while I agree that first part of the show was better, the last 6 episodes werent even half bad as people said they are. The plot were completed. There were no gaps left at all. That's what I believe I've seen, and I'm very critical to kdramas. For instance something critically acclaimed like Stranger wasn't my type of series at all, and I dropped it on 7th episode, despite promising plot. And I like crime, suspence and detectives. But that's not the case. While you may think that I'm an average viewer, or someone who barely knows kdramas, you're wrong. I watched plenty of new, and plenty of classics. I know pretty much all about them."
I never implied you were an average viewer or watched little dramas. I said that I didn't watched many dramas. That list I sent you, is all the Kdrama I've seen or partially seen.
I did the same thing. I wrote a review, you challenged it, and I responded in kind. That is all that is happening here. I have no problem if you wrote a review with your honest opinion, that is your right after all.
I am also quite critical with Kdrama, and I also don't like all acclaimed dramas. Goblin is rated very high for me. I would rate Goblin higher than Start Up, but not by much. I didn't get the hype with Goblin, and I felt there were quite a few plot holes, bad characterizations, and awful chemistry between the main couple. When I rate a Kdrama, I focus on the technical aspects which include pacing, quality of writing, rich and complex characterizations, and clear plot direction. Things I felt Start Up lacked a lot of, thus my rating.
I disliked the back half of the episodes, not because the ship I supported, the HJP ship didn't sail, but the retrograding of plot, inconsistent characteristic, forgotten plot points, plot holes, unnecessary scenes, bad justification, and force feeding of plot devices had their mark all over the last 6-8 episodes. I probably should have dropped the series earlier, but my fervent wish to see how HJP would conclude his arc, made me stay and watch till the end, only to be disappointed, by the writer's lackadaisical writing.
"Now, coming from your words, I could as well point out that you only have 3 reviews, just to express hatred towards 2 of shows and bias towards 1. And as well as you mentioned my review (again, the one I didnt write in comment section to yours in the first place), I believe it is my right to take as my argument your picks of kdramas and one review that determine our difference."
I've only really started being active on MDL not too long ago, and have only been watching Kdrama during Covid lockdown. Prior to Kdrama, I spent a long time watching and writing my thoughts about Asian Independent/art films. But just because I appreciate the more complex, and scintillating art films, doesn't mean I can't appreciate a well written fluff drama, which most Korean Romcoms are.
I could probably rate all of the shows I've watched, but I have newly discovered the fun and enjoyment of watching a live airing, sharing your thoughts with the community, and have healthy debates with opposing views. TKEM was my first live airing, and I was also active in that comment section. Start Up is my second live airing, and I so I wrote a review. I am currently watching Run On and Mr. Queen, and I will most likely write reviews for those as well. I didn't bother writing reviews for older shows I've seen as I feel it would not help the community since there are already a lot of reviews that parallel my thoughts anyway.
"Now, I couldnt agree more with you on TKEM in pretty much every single point (weird huh), and there are some kdramas that you put higher than Start Up I agree with (something like MLFTS was my all time favorite). But seeing you mentioning on giving WWWSK a higher score doesnt make sense for me. Consistent characters? Yes, consistently boring, unoriginal, without anything to deliver (whether it be info, jokes, or experiences) and blant. Exactly same as in some other romcoms. Moreover, WWWSK sometimes feels like a copy of She Was Pretty, which in my opinion was may more good than WWWSK. "
It's not weird to share views on other shows. I haven't seen she was pretty, but WWWSK was an enjoyable fluff piece that was easy to watch. Nothing more, nothing less.
"And oh boy, you giving 10s to Master's Sun blew my mind. Hong sister's flat and unipolar view on supernatural always buggered me in Hotel Del Luna, Korean Odyssey and Master's Sun as well. Felt like half of this show are filler episodes writers came up with in one night. I lost all hope to these writers. Despite being good in bromances, and I cant deny that I loved So Ji Sub in the role, Gong Hyo Jin is barely changes and always stays the same. The story drags, being boring (consistently) and falls in repetitiveness. But, it's all our opinions after all."
I am a self described GHJ Stan. In fact, she is probably the only actress I universally admire. And although the all 10's I gave was even to my standards, quite high, I love GHJ as an actress, and I think she breathed live into a character that was so interesting and charming. Her chemistry with SJS will go down in the annals as one of the best for me. Was master sun the best supernatural drama i've seen? No it's not, and I agree with the Hong Sisters, sometimes they try to hard to add depth to their dramas and place too many metaphors and symbolism that were not necessary to make the plot enjoyable, and the late addition of another guy in Master Sun didn't make sense to me. But because they created such great characters in GHJ and SJS's character in the first half of episodes, the weak writing in the latter half was more forgivable. I agree, my all 10's was too much, it was an exaggeration. I would still rate the drama a strong 8.5 if I were to review it again, with a 8 for the story, 9 for the acting, and a 10 for the OST, plus a 10 for rewatch value, since i've already seen it more than twice.
"Our criticisms are based on the categories in series and movies that we value less and that we value more. And I believe writer like Park Hye Ryun totally hit the spot for me in Start Up, that's why upon reading all your arguments, I cant agree with you again. I cant imagine her writing so much and put so much of connections, experiences and philosophy in a short time. It was great and complex work. So good that it created so much of haters."
I haven't seen her other works to be honest, so I can't comment on her previous works. But prior to watching Start Up, I was told that just like the Hong Sisters, she was fond of using symbolism, metaphors, red herrings, and other interesting literary devices. I watched the show, half expecting more complexity, more depths after episode 6, and I got none of that. All I saw was predictable plotting, weak writing, and for some reason she uses a lot of metaphors that don't amount to anything.
In fact, if you had read the comment section, at around ep. 9 or 10, I had already written how I thought the drama would end, and I was at least 75% accurate, which was disappointing to me, since the prediction I wrote was meant to be the most cliché way for the story to end, and she chose that direction.
I think "Hater" as a word, would get most people defensive, because a critic of the show is not a hater, just someone who wants to point out where the show failed. Maybe say critics instead.
And the critics of the show exist because PHR made the mistake of making the ML characterization weaker than that of the SML. And by the time the writing had tried to fix it, it was already too late, as people found it hard to relate to NDS. Now if your arguing that NDS was a complex character, than you should understand that the writer may have intended to write NDS as a complex character, but if majority of people did not get that, then she did not succeed. In the real world, intention matters less than results, and it's just how the world works.
"You pointed out most of things in Start Up in the light they werent even shown (for me), and I dont want to go through every of your arguments once again. I've watched plenty of kdramas, believe me. There are over 100 in my list. Different genres, different writers. And I cant be biased here at all, I'm absolutely confident in this. I read so much of bad reviews about Start Up, I honestly found myself waiting for the bad till the end of episodes. When something bad happened? There were plenty of bad things happening to characters, but it wasnt bad writing at all (for me). I believe this is kind of writer that's like a cup of tea. Its rather hit, or for someone its miss. What I dont understand is how haters have all those ratings up there on front page calling anyone who liked the kdrama "dumb" and "blind", completely disrespecting people and viewership. If that's not your case, fine. But if you can agree with these hateful statements, it's totally wrong and you should really try to rethink something."
I don't read every single review for Start Up. But the ones I've read, I didn't see the people lambasting others for being dumb or blind. I warrant they exist though. But I have read people on the comment section and in the review section that tell people to ignore the negative reviews, or not to listen to them, or are only bitter because their ship has sunk. Those exist a lot in the comment section. And during the live airing, most of the negative comments came from NDS fans who loved to personally attack HJP fans. Several post were even deleted and some people got banned for it.
Your experience with the drama and mine don't have to jive. If you enjoyed it that is great. And if I disliked it, that is also great. What makes us human is our ability and right not to agree with everything the other person said. But there is always room for debate and counter arguments, which is what I offered you when you wrote a comment about my review and challenged my assertions. I merely defended my POV.
"I dont want to endlessly discuss our picks of kdramas, because I dont see any point in it, and most likely we end up insulting each other, which isnt good at all."
Yes we shouldn't, there is no point. And I rarely insult people.
"If someone enjoys kdrama barely on portraying bf of one's dreams, and putting great osts, I dont mind. It's good, as everyone searches and finds different things in kdramas as in any form of art. But I still believe Start Up did very well by portraying emotion role in decision making and multipolarity, doubtings and insecurities. There were plenty of fun to make me stay till the end"
That's great to hear. And for me I felt that the mental barriers being portrayed in Start Up were not only inaccurate and non relatable, but being an Asian myself, attack the principles I hold dear. It's portrayal of family life was probably one of the low points for me in the drama, as it is never discussed, but rather swept under the rug.
"and while I believe Han Ji Pyeong was great character, he wasnt "heart of the show" at all and didnt overshadow ML for me. Maybe because I'm male, my perception of kdramas differs a bit. We cant deny - it plays its role. I dont have crush to Kim Seon Ho."
My dislike for the show has nothing to do with my admiration for KSH and his acting. I literally wrote my review and stated why I didn't like the show. And it had little to do with HJP's character, but really more of the writing and the way the story is told.
You may feel that NDS didn't get overshadowed, and that is your POV, but a lot of people felt he did. And that's not the actors fault, it's the writers.
"I don't believe Suzy is the best actress either, I have zero crush on her. But she plays it well in the whole story. And I dont believe you have to express crush to character in order to love story, although I do have my crushes on various korean actress like Lee Bo Young and Jun Ji Hyun, because often they played amazing characters and blended perfectly in the stories of kdramas they starred in, although I cant deny there were few I didnt like with them at all."
I agree, Suzy is not a great actress. Her characterization, which started really great in the first few episodes, fell flat in the back half. Here character which was suppose to be a strong independent woman with noticeable flaws, in the end became just your typical FL who has to be the damsel in distress to make the ML look better. I really dislike this Kdrama trope because it reeks of laziness from the writer.
Yes, even though I love GHJ, there are shows of hers I didn't like so much. Her most recent one, the one she won many awards with, was an enjoyable enough of a show, but felt draggy in the first 6-8 episodes. So, as you can see, I don't blindly love a show because of the actors/actress, I really value the technical aspects of it.
"Now, back to where we started. I dont believe its worth to discuss our differences in such manner - its dubious pleasure. I dont have any goal to win debates like this. I'd leave our discussion at that point. Thank you for taking time to write your review, but I'll stand with my opinion to the end."
It was my pleasure as well. I do enjoy having debates and discussion because it helps open my eyes to new angles and perspective. I don't write the way I do to "win", I do so because I enjoy detailing my views. Debates in general is rarely intended to change the opposing sides mind, but rather open them up to certain possibilities.
Watch Mr. Queen and Run On, so far i'm enjoying them both. Mr. Queen is quite well written so far, and has a good mix of genres.
*Inhales*BAE SUZY ACTS SAME IN EVERY SINGLE DRAMA REGARDLESS OF WHOEVER SHE IS PAIRED WITH.*Exhales*
I haven't seen her other dramas, so I can't comment on this.
But the way she looks at HJP and NDS the same exact way, and the way she reacts when HJP tells her something makes me think she is really weak when it comes to micro expressions.
And all those close ups actually do a disservice to her, because I do understand the close up is highlights her pretty face, but she has the same blank stare in most of her close ups. You rarely get glimpse of what she's feeling or emoting. In comparison KSH has great use of micro expression, and I comment a lot about micro expression in general, because in the era of ultra sharp HD, and closeups, micro expressions are more important than ever.
Another thing I noticed is that her hands are not emotive enough. One of the other mark of a good actor/actress is what you do with your hands during dead time. Once again, check out KSH, aside from micro expression, he makes good use of his hands to relay his thoughts and feelings. SO even when there is no dialogue or dead time, you have a sense of where the narrative is going.
Acting is more than looking handsome or pretty, It's the ability of the actor to relay emotions, thought, and pacing to the audience.
Can any film student or video editors give me some info.
I'm just wondering what kind of Color palette Start Up uses? I like the colorization they use, and I'm new to video editing. I currently use Adobe premiere and I'm learning how to colorize and change color palettes.
If any one has experience, can you point me in the right direction. Thanks!
So you think this is just as good as Love from the Star, It's Okay that's Love, Mr. Sunshine, Kill Me Heal Me,…
Ok, I apologize for my assumptions. I should not have done that.
Basically you like the drama because it made you feel good, and that's why you feel it should be rated higher. And I feel it should be rated low due to the technical aspects. So it's simply a difference of rating criteria.
I am currently watching Mr. Queen and Run On, both dramas have me quite hooked already, especially Mr. Queen. As long as this consistency stays, I will probably be rating both of them higher than Start Up.
I'm a bit confused, is the queen the kings mom? and the grand dowager the grandma?
So far the ML and SL are both quite likeable. I don't mind who the queen ends up with, just hopefully Bong Hwan is no longer in her psyche when it happens, LOL!
The rating for this show at present is 8.1 ,that's the average of 8k viewers,so I think it's not that bad,not…
The ratings are what they are. Either you believe them or you don't. There are a lot of good shows rated too low, and there are some overrated shows that are rated too high. It's clear you feel it's rated too low, and that is your opinion.
In the end, people will rate base on their own personal criteria. Some people dislike it a lot, and opt to rate all 1's to show how much. Although an exaggeration, it is symbolic to show how much they disliked it. Others rate all 10's, and this is also an exaggeration, it is also symbolic to show how much they loved it.
With the current MDL ratings, we don't know what is accurate or not, as fake accounts/spam bots seems to be getting more and more blatant on a daily basis, and rating manipulation seems to be a real thing. We know this, because a lot of shows got their ratings dropped a lot during the MDL purge.
If you think there is mostly negativity about the show, maybe it's a reflection that many people didn't enjoy the show? The majority negative review also seems to support this assertion.
Nothing is stopping the wave of positivity to infect the comment section. But maybe consider, maybe those people are fewer in number, or they don't bother? You said you liked the show? Then feel free to spread more positivity on what you liked about the show. That is what the comment section is for after all :)))
Yeah, if you don't get any SLS, then that is good for you, the drama will be a bit more enjoyable. For me personally SLS was the least of my problems with the show. It's the message the show is imparting, the technical aspects of the show, and the lukewarm acting of the leads, being chief among them. Also I didn't like how the SML and SFL had stronger and more complex stories that were never explored.
Comments like "Don't mind them" is facetious in nature you know? This no different than some other people saying "Ignore the biased haters". With all these negativity that you are seeing, do you see the so called negative people telling new watchers, "oh this show sucks, don't watch it, ignore those people saying the show is good, because it's garbage."
Yeah I did not think so.
Maybe instead on commenting on the people in the comment section, focus on what you liked about the show instead.
So you think this is just as good as Love from the Star, It's Okay that's Love, Mr. Sunshine, Kill Me Heal Me,…
How did I twist?
"But hey, I've been a Nam Joo-hyuk fan ever since WFKBJ, so maybe I'm biased."
"Well first, I judge kdramas based on how they make me feel and how i relate to them."
"I didnt really feel the 2nd male lead syndrome everyone is talking about because the chemistry between Nam Dosan and Seo Dalmi was amazing."
Your words, not mine.
You said, you based on your ratings on how you relate to them, and how the dramas made you feel.
You also said you have a bias for NJH.
So was it unfair for me to assume you rate based on your actor bias when you yourself said it was a possibility?
Was it also unfair for me to talk about my standard of rating a drama on the technical side, while for you it's how the drama made you feel? I pointed out the fallacies of the drama other than the Ships, and you responded with you rate dramas based on how it makes you feel, so I assumed you didn't care about the technical aspects as much then.
Correct me if i'm wrong, and made the wrong assumptions. I'm just using your own words. Twisting your words, would indicate malicious intent, which I do not have for you. I am trying to clarify your stance that is all.
To summarize. I said, I value technical aspects in rating drama, you responded you rated dramas based on how it made you feel, and you admit that being NJH fan may have affected your thoughts because you are bias for him.
So I assumed that your bias on an actor/actress factors what ratings you give drama. I also assumed that technical aspects of a drama is not as important to you, as long as the drama made you feel good.
They look so similar. And I read some interviews, that people called SHS ugly :((( this is so similar to GHJ, people also said she was ugly.
To me SHS and GHJ have a different type of beauty, that I love :)))
The fight scene in Start UP was a big thing for a lot of people, and that one act turned a lot of NDS fans into HJP fans overnight. Although I thought it was ridiculous as well, I felt it was consistent with the NDS character as I knew him, so I wasn't surprised. Prior to that his character, already was dropping subtle hints that it was headed into a more immature and destructive path, which I find ironic, because each episodes places him in better and better light in favor of SDM.
NDS as a character had potential to be quite complex if the writer dealt with the mental issues he grapples with. And the codependent relationship SDM and NDS has is hard for people to relate, because in real life, these types of relationship are the ones we try to avoid. It is exhausting being someone's pride, NDS says, and yet that is what he does to SDM, not realizing it, and SDM is ok with it.
Many things could have been done better in Start Up, if the writers addressed even just some of these things, Start Up could have been a solid 8 for me. And the love triangle, as many have said, was unnecessary past Ep. 7. A lot of shows have love triangles that end a lot earlier, and are stronger for it. The love triangle lasting as long as it did was probably Start Up, biggest flaw in most viewers eyes.
I'm really getting invested in the real queen's character, she is interesting and my type of FL. Not bong hwan but the actual queen.
So far i'm on Ep. 2 and I already think this deserves at least an 8.4, if not more.
Ok noted, that your review is not meant to be aggressive, but neither was my response. So I will apologize, if you feel my response wasn't respectful enough, I tried my best to make it so. I only made an observation. I looked at your review out of curiosity more than anything, and I was instantly turned off by the "don't believe these haters" line. It is a generalization that hits a lot of people even the ones you did not intend to attack. Because quite simply a hater can be described as someone who did not enjoy the drama. So with that definition, you can classify me as a hater, which i'm not. I am a critic first and foremost, not a hater.
"Yes, Its my first review here, despite the fact that I regularly visit MDL. I've seen few criticisms of my favorite kdramas as well and mostly took them respectfully, despite they werent even top reviews. Moreover, there were plenty of people to defend any other kdrama that I believe were criticized more than needed sometimes. But only in the case of this kdrama I felt urge to point out why its stunningly good, that's why I wrote a review. I didnt created fake accounts to boost ratings,"
You'll have to forgive my assumption then, as A LOT of people have been creating fake accounts for this exact purpose and to spread hate in the comment section by calling people, or the fandom out personally. And i've had my discussions with my fair share of obsessed NDS fans, so I immediately clumped you with them, which is my mistake. But now you are clarifying your stance, then I can respect and accept that. Thank you for doing so.
" I just wrote HONEST review about what I've seen, and wanted people discouraged by plenty hate the show received to go for it and watch it, because while I agree that first part of the show was better, the last 6 episodes werent even half bad as people said they are. The plot were completed. There were no gaps left at all. That's what I believe I've seen, and I'm very critical to kdramas. For instance something critically acclaimed like Stranger wasn't my type of series at all, and I dropped it on 7th episode, despite promising plot. And I like crime, suspence and detectives. But that's not the case. While you may think that I'm an average viewer, or someone who barely knows kdramas, you're wrong. I watched plenty of new, and plenty of classics. I know pretty much all about them."
I never implied you were an average viewer or watched little dramas. I said that I didn't watched many dramas. That list I sent you, is all the Kdrama I've seen or partially seen.
I did the same thing. I wrote a review, you challenged it, and I responded in kind. That is all that is happening here. I have no problem if you wrote a review with your honest opinion, that is your right after all.
I am also quite critical with Kdrama, and I also don't like all acclaimed dramas. Goblin is rated very high for me. I would rate Goblin higher than Start Up, but not by much. I didn't get the hype with Goblin, and I felt there were quite a few plot holes, bad characterizations, and awful chemistry between the main couple. When I rate a Kdrama, I focus on the technical aspects which include pacing, quality of writing, rich and complex characterizations, and clear plot direction. Things I felt Start Up lacked a lot of, thus my rating.
I disliked the back half of the episodes, not because the ship I supported, the HJP ship didn't sail, but the retrograding of plot, inconsistent characteristic, forgotten plot points, plot holes, unnecessary scenes, bad justification, and force feeding of plot devices had their mark all over the last 6-8 episodes. I probably should have dropped the series earlier, but my fervent wish to see how HJP would conclude his arc, made me stay and watch till the end, only to be disappointed, by the writer's lackadaisical writing.
"Now, coming from your words, I could as well point out that you only have 3 reviews, just to express hatred towards 2 of shows and bias towards 1. And as well as you mentioned my review (again, the one I didnt write in comment section to yours in the first place), I believe it is my right to take as my argument your picks of kdramas and one review that determine our difference."
I've only really started being active on MDL not too long ago, and have only been watching Kdrama during Covid lockdown. Prior to Kdrama, I spent a long time watching and writing my thoughts about Asian Independent/art films. But just because I appreciate the more complex, and scintillating art films, doesn't mean I can't appreciate a well written fluff drama, which most Korean Romcoms are.
I could probably rate all of the shows I've watched, but I have newly discovered the fun and enjoyment of watching a live airing, sharing your thoughts with the community, and have healthy debates with opposing views. TKEM was my first live airing, and I was also active in that comment section. Start Up is my second live airing, and I so I wrote a review. I am currently watching Run On and Mr. Queen, and I will most likely write reviews for those as well. I didn't bother writing reviews for older shows I've seen as I feel it would not help the community since there are already a lot of reviews that parallel my thoughts anyway.
"Now, I couldnt agree more with you on TKEM in pretty much every single point (weird huh), and there are some kdramas that you put higher than Start Up I agree with (something like
MLFTS was my all time favorite). But seeing you mentioning on giving WWWSK a higher score doesnt make sense for me. Consistent characters? Yes, consistently boring, unoriginal, without anything to deliver (whether it be info, jokes, or experiences) and blant. Exactly same as in some other romcoms. Moreover, WWWSK sometimes feels like a copy of She Was Pretty, which in my opinion was may more good than WWWSK. "
It's not weird to share views on other shows. I haven't seen she was pretty, but WWWSK was an enjoyable fluff piece that was easy to watch. Nothing more, nothing less.
"And oh boy, you giving 10s to Master's Sun blew my mind. Hong sister's flat and unipolar view on supernatural always buggered me in Hotel Del Luna, Korean Odyssey and Master's Sun as well. Felt like half of this show are filler episodes writers came up with in one night. I lost all hope to these writers. Despite being good in bromances, and I cant deny that I loved So Ji Sub in the role, Gong Hyo Jin is barely changes and always stays the same. The story drags, being boring (consistently) and falls in repetitiveness. But, it's all our opinions after all."
I am a self described GHJ Stan. In fact, she is probably the only actress I universally admire. And although the all 10's I gave was even to my standards, quite high, I love GHJ as an actress, and I think she breathed live into a character that was so interesting and charming. Her chemistry with SJS will go down in the annals as one of the best for me. Was master sun the best supernatural drama i've seen? No it's not, and I agree with the Hong Sisters, sometimes they try to hard to add depth to their dramas and place too many metaphors and symbolism that were not necessary to make the plot enjoyable, and the late addition of another guy in Master Sun didn't make sense to me. But because they created such great characters in GHJ and SJS's character in the first half of episodes, the weak writing in the latter half was more forgivable. I agree, my all 10's was too much, it was an exaggeration. I would still rate the drama a strong 8.5 if I were to review it again, with a 8 for the story, 9 for the acting, and a 10 for the OST, plus a 10 for rewatch value, since i've already seen it more than twice.
"Our criticisms are based on the categories in series and movies that we value less and that we value more. And I believe writer like Park Hye Ryun totally hit the spot for me in Start Up, that's why upon reading all your arguments, I cant agree with you again. I cant imagine her writing so much and put so much of connections, experiences and philosophy in a short time. It was great and complex work. So good that it created so much of haters."
I haven't seen her other works to be honest, so I can't comment on her previous works. But prior to watching Start Up, I was told that just like the Hong Sisters, she was fond of using symbolism, metaphors, red herrings, and other interesting literary devices. I watched the show, half expecting more complexity, more depths after episode 6, and I got none of that. All I saw was predictable plotting, weak writing, and for some reason she uses a lot of metaphors that don't amount to anything.
In fact, if you had read the comment section, at around ep. 9 or 10, I had already written how I thought the drama would end, and I was at least 75% accurate, which was disappointing to me, since the prediction I wrote was meant to be the most cliché way for the story to end, and she chose that direction.
I think "Hater" as a word, would get most people defensive, because a critic of the show is not a hater, just someone who wants to point out where the show failed. Maybe say critics instead.
And the critics of the show exist because PHR made the mistake of making the ML characterization weaker than that of the SML. And by the time the writing had tried to fix it, it was already too late, as people found it hard to relate to NDS. Now if your arguing that NDS was a complex character, than you should understand that the writer may have intended to write NDS as a complex character, but if majority of people did not get that, then she did not succeed. In the real world, intention matters less than results, and it's just how the world works.
"You pointed out most of things in Start Up in the light they werent even shown (for me), and I dont want to go through every of your arguments once again. I've watched plenty of kdramas, believe me. There are over 100 in my list. Different genres, different writers. And I cant be biased here at all, I'm absolutely confident in this. I read so much of bad reviews about Start Up, I honestly found myself waiting for the bad till the end of episodes. When something bad happened? There were plenty of bad things happening to characters, but it wasnt bad writing at all (for me). I believe this is kind of writer that's like a cup of tea. Its rather hit, or for someone its miss. What I dont understand is how haters have all those ratings up there on front page calling anyone who liked the kdrama "dumb" and "blind", completely disrespecting people and viewership. If that's not your case, fine. But if you can agree with these hateful statements, it's totally wrong and you should really try to rethink something."
I don't read every single review for Start Up. But the ones I've read, I didn't see the people lambasting others for being dumb or blind. I warrant they exist though. But I have read people on the comment section and in the review section that tell people to ignore the negative reviews, or not to listen to them, or are only bitter because their ship has sunk. Those exist a lot in the comment section. And during the live airing, most of the negative comments came from NDS fans who loved to personally attack HJP fans. Several post were even deleted and some people got banned for it.
Your experience with the drama and mine don't have to jive. If you enjoyed it that is great. And if I disliked it, that is also great. What makes us human is our ability and right not to agree with everything the other person said. But there is always room for debate and counter arguments, which is what I offered you when you wrote a comment about my review and challenged my assertions. I merely defended my POV.
"I dont want to endlessly discuss our picks of kdramas, because I dont see any point in it, and most likely we end up insulting each other, which isnt good at all."
Yes we shouldn't, there is no point. And I rarely insult people.
"If someone enjoys kdrama barely on portraying bf of one's dreams, and putting great osts, I dont mind. It's good, as everyone searches and finds different things in kdramas as in any form of art. But I still believe Start Up did very well by portraying emotion role in decision making and multipolarity, doubtings and insecurities. There were plenty of fun to make me stay till the end"
That's great to hear. And for me I felt that the mental barriers being portrayed in Start Up were not only inaccurate and non relatable, but being an Asian myself, attack the principles I hold dear. It's portrayal of family life was probably one of the low points for me in the drama, as it is never discussed, but rather swept under the rug.
"and while I believe Han Ji Pyeong was great character, he wasnt "heart of the show" at all and didnt overshadow ML for me. Maybe because I'm male, my perception of kdramas differs a bit. We cant deny - it plays its role. I dont have crush to Kim Seon Ho."
My dislike for the show has nothing to do with my admiration for KSH and his acting. I literally wrote my review and stated why I didn't like the show. And it had little to do with HJP's character, but really more of the writing and the way the story is told.
You may feel that NDS didn't get overshadowed, and that is your POV, but a lot of people felt he did. And that's not the actors fault, it's the writers.
"I don't believe Suzy is the best actress either, I have zero crush on her. But she plays it well in the whole story. And I dont believe you have to express crush to character in order to love story, although I do have my crushes on various korean actress like Lee Bo Young and Jun Ji Hyun, because often they played amazing characters and blended perfectly in the stories of kdramas they starred in, although I cant deny there were few I didnt like with them at all."
I agree, Suzy is not a great actress. Her characterization, which started really great in the first few episodes, fell flat in the back half. Here character which was suppose to be a strong independent woman with noticeable flaws, in the end became just your typical FL who has to be the damsel in distress to make the ML look better. I really dislike this Kdrama trope because it reeks of laziness from the writer.
Yes, even though I love GHJ, there are shows of hers I didn't like so much. Her most recent one, the one she won many awards with, was an enjoyable enough of a show, but felt draggy in the first 6-8 episodes. So, as you can see, I don't blindly love a show because of the actors/actress, I really value the technical aspects of it.
"Now, back to where we started. I dont believe its worth to discuss our differences in such manner - its dubious pleasure. I dont have any goal to win debates like this. I'd leave our discussion at that point. Thank you for taking time to write your review, but I'll stand with my opinion to the end."
It was my pleasure as well. I do enjoy having debates and discussion because it helps open my eyes to new angles and perspective. I don't write the way I do to "win", I do so because I enjoy detailing my views. Debates in general is rarely intended to change the opposing sides mind, but rather open them up to certain possibilities.
Watch Mr. Queen and Run On, so far i'm enjoying them both. Mr. Queen is quite well written so far, and has a good mix of genres.
But the way she looks at HJP and NDS the same exact way, and the way she reacts when HJP tells her something makes me think she is really weak when it comes to micro expressions.
And all those close ups actually do a disservice to her, because I do understand the close up is highlights her pretty face, but she has the same blank stare in most of her close ups. You rarely get glimpse of what she's feeling or emoting. In comparison KSH has great use of micro expression, and I comment a lot about micro expression in general, because in the era of ultra sharp HD, and closeups, micro expressions are more important than ever.
Another thing I noticed is that her hands are not emotive enough. One of the other mark of a good actor/actress is what you do with your hands during dead time. Once again, check out KSH, aside from micro expression, he makes good use of his hands to relay his thoughts and feelings. SO even when there is no dialogue or dead time, you have a sense of where the narrative is going.
Acting is more than looking handsome or pretty, It's the ability of the actor to relay emotions, thought, and pacing to the audience.
I'm just wondering what kind of Color palette Start Up uses? I like the colorization they use, and I'm new to video editing. I currently use Adobe premiere and I'm learning how to colorize and change color palettes.
If any one has experience, can you point me in the right direction. Thanks!
Basically you like the drama because it made you feel good, and that's why you feel it should be rated higher. And I feel it should be rated low due to the technical aspects. So it's simply a difference of rating criteria.
I am currently watching Mr. Queen and Run On, both dramas have me quite hooked already, especially Mr. Queen. As long as this consistency stays, I will probably be rating both of them higher than Start Up.
So far the ML and SL are both quite likeable. I don't mind who the queen ends up with, just hopefully Bong Hwan is no longer in her psyche when it happens, LOL!
I just discovered SHS and she's so fun! visually she reminds me of a younger GHJ also, which I stan :)))
In the end, people will rate base on their own personal criteria. Some people dislike it a lot, and opt to rate all 1's to show how much. Although an exaggeration, it is symbolic to show how much they disliked it. Others rate all 10's, and this is also an exaggeration, it is also symbolic to show how much they loved it.
With the current MDL ratings, we don't know what is accurate or not, as fake accounts/spam bots seems to be getting more and more blatant on a daily basis, and rating manipulation seems to be a real thing. We know this, because a lot of shows got their ratings dropped a lot during the MDL purge.
If you think there is mostly negativity about the show, maybe it's a reflection that many people didn't enjoy the show? The majority negative review also seems to support this assertion.
Nothing is stopping the wave of positivity to infect the comment section. But maybe consider, maybe those people are fewer in number, or they don't bother? You said you liked the show? Then feel free to spread more positivity on what you liked about the show. That is what the comment section is for after all :)))
Yeah, if you don't get any SLS, then that is good for you, the drama will be a bit more enjoyable. For me personally SLS was the least of my problems with the show. It's the message the show is imparting, the technical aspects of the show, and the lukewarm acting of the leads, being chief among them. Also I didn't like how the SML and SFL had stronger and more complex stories that were never explored.
Comments like "Don't mind them" is facetious in nature you know? This no different than some other people saying "Ignore the biased haters". With all these negativity that you are seeing, do you see the so called negative people telling new watchers, "oh this show sucks, don't watch it, ignore those people saying the show is good, because it's garbage."
Yeah I did not think so.
Maybe instead on commenting on the people in the comment section, focus on what you liked about the show instead.
"But hey, I've been a Nam Joo-hyuk fan ever since WFKBJ, so maybe I'm biased."
"Well first, I judge kdramas based on how they make me feel and how i relate to them."
"I didnt really feel the 2nd male lead syndrome everyone is talking about because the chemistry between Nam Dosan and Seo Dalmi was amazing."
Your words, not mine.
You said, you based on your ratings on how you relate to them, and how the dramas made you feel.
You also said you have a bias for NJH.
So was it unfair for me to assume you rate based on your actor bias when you yourself said it was a possibility?
Was it also unfair for me to talk about my standard of rating a drama on the technical side, while for you it's how the drama made you feel? I pointed out the fallacies of the drama other than the Ships, and you responded with you rate dramas based on how it makes you feel, so I assumed you didn't care about the technical aspects as much then.
Correct me if i'm wrong, and made the wrong assumptions. I'm just using your own words. Twisting your words, would indicate malicious intent, which I do not have for you. I am trying to clarify your stance that is all.
To summarize. I said, I value technical aspects in rating drama, you responded you rated dramas based on how it made you feel, and you admit that being NJH fan may have affected your thoughts because you are bias for him.
So I assumed that your bias on an actor/actress factors what ratings you give drama. I also assumed that technical aspects of a drama is not as important to you, as long as the drama made you feel good.
Did I make wrong assumptions?