So you think this is just as good as Love from the Star, It's Okay that's Love, Mr. Sunshine, Kill Me Heal Me,…
The rating should not be based on he endgame you prefer. So you would rate a show a 10/10 if your endgame bias got the girl, neglecting the shows other faults? This doesn't make much sense to me TBH.
You had no problems with the inconsistent characterizations plot holes, degradation of plot points, unhealthy morals, unrealistic portrayal of the tech start up industry, the unhealthy familial relationship, the imposter syndrome, and the codependent relationship among other things? And i'm not even including the many things NDS did that would make a girl, raised some red flags if they were dating him...
I guess we differ. I consider MDL ratings to be a reflection of quality writing, well created characters, precision of plot, and consistent characterization.
It appears, based on your words, you base your ratings on who your bias is, and whether you liked the actor/actress in the drama. Which is your right of course, we just have different criteria to ratings then.
First off, I feel your words carry a micro-aggressive tone, and I wanted to believe you were portraying a neutral,…
The younger generation worry me in their inability to take any type of criticism. Everyone wants Alex, until he takes advantage of you, then you run to HJP LOL!
Not everyone will tell you the harsh truth, most people just don't care, and just want to use you or get information from you, and so they are nice to you. In fact the people who are harsh to you are probably the ones who care more.
Take parents for example. If you are about to fail, most people won't care. But your parents may shout at you, and chide you, but you may see this as strict parents. Until you fall, and guess what, those people who you thought are your friends are nowhere to be found, but your parents will still be there even when you treat them the way NDS treats his mom and dad.
I can't help it. Sometimes when I see a POV so off base, I try to inject some of my experiences into it. But in all honesty, with all the NDS fans I have debated with, most call me a blind biased HJP fan, regardless of the validity of my arguments. Some of them like @jeanfiles are great to talk with, but some of these new NDS fans don't listen or accept any type of reasoning.
There's an idea. If Suzy and NJH instead were college students creating a start up from their parent's garage, and it showed their journey without a love triangle, it would have been 10 times better.
I also would have liked it if HJP in the end could be part of the SDM and NDS family, but they placed too many frictional situations between NDS and HJP for that to happen. They only made up on Ep. 16? LOL!
There was too much chemistry between HJP and Halmoni that people complained it was overshadowing the Main Couple,…
I'm kidding, sarcasm is my humor :)))
But the did cut a lot of screen time for HJP. And after EP. 10 's emotional scene, they never bothered circling back to show what HJP and Halmoni talked about. In fact, they did limit a lot of HJP and Halmoni scenes.
It has been talked about and confirmed by HJP's last line in Ep. 16 that HJP has always loved SDM. Let me explain briefly.
SDM falls for HJP of the letters, because in her lowest point, the letters comforted her.
HJP falls for SDM of the letters, because in his lowest point, the letters comforted him. And he actually tells SDM this in the end.
But the issue with HJP is that just as he is ramping up to spending time with SDM, and proving that he is the man for her. The writer creates a time skip where HJP does nothing for three years, yet still pines for SDM. It's a ridiculous plot point.
I've seen the first two episodes over the weekend but for the first time in a while, I wasn't sure how to describe…
Great post. I agree with it all.
I just want to add that what I love about the show is the contradictions between the ML and FL.
The ML is aloof and shows little emotions, yet he will has the inner fire to defend a teammate, and take responsibility.
The FL lead is prideful, but she is willing to grovel and beg when needed.
It will be interesting to see if both the FL and ML will be able to grow out of these contradictory stances, and eventually break out into more stable stances, since these contradictions are mainly because of situations they cannot control.
Plus, i'm tired of ML who knows everything. This ML googles a lot! I love when he googles things, showing he is not infallible.
So far it has a pretty good feel. (Except for the jack booted track thugs)
I believe it's intentional. You notice how almost all the supporting Male characters are shown in such poor misogynistic light. From the director, coach, track thugs, actress agent, and etc..
I believe this is on purpose by the writer, because he wanted to make the quirkiness and inner strength of the other characters shine even more.
I feel like this show would've been much better if Han Ji-pyeong's story focused on his relationship with the…
There was too much chemistry between HJP and Halmoni that people complained it was overshadowing the Main Couple, so they decided to limit their scenes.
Here is a response I had to someone who didn't like HJP's characterization. Maybe someone will find this useful.…
First off, I feel your words carry a micro-aggressive tone, and I wanted to believe you were portraying a neutral, or an open view. But in your review, you started with the words “Don’t listen to these biased haters” Ahh, that’s all I need to know where you stood in this whole thing. But regardless, I will respect your view, and I will take the time to respond to your long subjective post, with my own subjective post, sprinkled with objective facts. Also it’s not lost to me that you creative this account, just to give Start Up a great score and at the same time lambaste the so called “haters” of the show, but anyway…
For this post, I will be using the style of responding to each of your points in quotations. I feel this is a more organized way of writing and counter arguing, and will add needed clarity to our hopefully fruitful discussion.
I apologize ahead of time, this will be a long post. I hope you show me the respect I showed you and actually read all of it, and not just skim through it. I’ve had a lot of fruitless discussion with NDS fan’s who don’t show me the respect of reading my whole reply. Without further ado, let us begin...
“I'm sorry, but I can't understand this overrating of HJP. Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings”
I wouldn’t worry too much about hurting HJP fan’s feelings, most of us here are quite mature and can accept criticism of HJP. I can at least speak for myself, that even if you called HJP the most toxic Kdrama character in history, I would not be offended, I would simply respond with my own opinions on your assertions.
It also makes sense that you cannot see HJP’s many great qualities, and instead manifest flaws, that only a few see. This is because you prefer NDS over HJP, and since these two fictional characters are in contention for SDM’s heart, it would make sense that you will feel that NDS, your preferred end game, would look better in comparison. This is just human nature, nothing more, nothing less. So let’s move along.
“He was indeed a great character, but he was harsh, "looking down", arrogant and narcisstic. There were times when I wanted to punch his nasty smirk face even more than ML.”
This statement seems a bit paradoxical and hypocritical. You claim he was a great character, but then you feel he has all these major flaws, that you wanted to punch him. I think what you meant to say is that HJP is a complex and interesting character, and that the actor KSH played him so amazingly, that you felt like punching HJP, because of how the actor KSH made you feel.
The only part I would agree with is that HJP is a complex and interesting character. I don’t agree with the rest of your statement, and I’m going to go into detail here of why. Let us first discuss the three adjectives you use to describe HJP, and I will also look into the “Smirk” that angered you so much.
Harsh and Looking Down– I think a lot of how we deal with the Kdrama’s we watch is based on our own personal beliefs. As I cannot speak for you, since I don’t know you, I will speak about myself instead. I am in my early 30’s and an Asian female. Now, to be entirely honest, I don’t find the way HJP presents himself as harsh at all, if anything it’s very common to see this type of language being spoken from senior members of society towards more junior members. And this is much more apparent in Korean society, where your birth order is very important. That is why honorifics like Unnie, Oppa, Hyung, and Noona are important in Korean society, because of the respect the juniors MUST have for their seniors. In that same Korean society, the seniors are not actually expected to show the same respect, in fact in corporate Korea, the seniority can at times be quite extreme and border along the lines of western type of Hazing.
I am not Korean, so in my culture this is not as bad, but there is still an emphasis on seniority and respect for elders, even if that person is only 3-4 years older than me. It is a societal expectation.
The advice that HJP gives NDS may appear harsh to you and some people, but for me, he is being pragmatic, he is not sugar coating the truth. He is giving advice based on realistic simulations, real life experience, and his expertise in the field. I found the advice to be quite realistic in the sense that he never tells NDS to give up on his dreams, or to just go quit being a programmer, instead he challenges NDS on his flaws, he points out his short comings, and he even gives him advice on what path he needs to go.
Of course to a dreamer like NDS, this does not sound good, because as a dreamer, what makes you happy Is when someone says how great your dreams are, and how amazing your product is. But in reality HJP says it best “those people are not interested in you, that is why they are being nice to you, I am interested, and that is why I’m being honest” This line is later parroted by Chairman Yoo in the later episodes, she uses the same words, but in albeit softer tone, which should not matter, since the message is the same. This line form both Chairman Yoo and HJP is probably the single most important line that people can learn from the show. That you should be wary of people who keeps telling you how amazing you are, and instead listen to the ones who are honest with you, regardless of how painful the truth sounds. But, I’m Asian, and I’ve been surrounded by the harsh Asian society for most of my life, and because of this, I have become more mentally resilient. I get a lot of this harshness from my parents as well. I’m sure you’ve at least heard of Tiger parenting? Harshness as you call it, is just a potentially good message, being clouded in a strong tone, and less than ideal words. So once again, due to my own personal experience, I find HJP not to be harsh at all, just pragmatic and a realist not willing to sugar coat things. In fact, this all ties in with HJP’s backstory. As an orphan, you are taught very early to grow up and mistrust the world. You learn very early that the world isn’t all candies and cake, and life is harsh. So the way I see it, HJP sees NDS, sees his lack of ambition, and his dreamer mentality, and he just wanted to temper all that with realism, since HJP himself has learned the hard way, nothing is that easy. And this view from HJP is very relatable to most people, because life is indeed harsh, and we can’t all be as lucky as SST and see good fortunes just fall into our lap like that.
SDM best explains this when she says the odds of NDS being discovered by Alex is one in ten million. Just an FYI, the odds of winning the lottery has been calculated at 1 in 13 million. SDM is clearly saying NDS is very lucky here. Which he is, and the audience agrees that SST has been lucky throughout the show’s runs.
Looking Down – You have to remember HJP is in a high position with an investment firm that has responsibility to its clientele. This isn’t a law firm where you can just do pro bono cases for charity. This is a company where when clients lose money because the company makes bad investment, people get angry, people get sued, and sometimes people get violent. So in light of this, HJP tends to err on the safer side when choosing which investment SH ventures will do, and it looks like he is very good at his job considering how high his position and how large his bonus is at the beginning of the show. So what you take as “looking down” is just him being realistic with NDS and SST. They lack many factors that a successful start-up needs; In fact, they cannot answer the question that most investment professionals will ask. “How do you monetize your product”? How can any start up create a blueprint of success if they cannot convince VC money, which they need, how their product will be profitable? If you think VC companies are all just warm teddy bears whose biggest concern is how to save the forest while losing money, then you don’t understand how VC companies work.
Also, what is lost to many NDS fans is that HJP actually changes his stance on SST at around Ep. 3 at the 1 hour, 5 minute mark. The thing about HJP is that he is an character that has showed consistent character growth since episode 1. And he is a character that is willing to admit if he has made a mistake, and even willing to give due when it is deserved or earned.
Arrogant – There is a thing line between arrogance and confidence, and for you, he crosses the line into arrogance for most of the show. But for me, he is right on that line, with leanings into confidence. A lot of the words he says, a lot of the advice he gives is because of his confidence in his abilities. To people who are insecure like NDS and SST, this simply comes off as pure arrogance, but for people who are willing to learn, willing to improve, and are secure in themselves like SDM, this simply comes as advice from a confident person.
It’s like on Facebook, you will see people in sales, post about their achievements, the milestones they have hit, how much money they have made even. If you are insecure about the money you have earned that year, or are insecure about yourself in general, there is a very real possibility you will call this person arrogance, boastful, and even malicious. But if your secure in yourself, then you can just appreciate that person for their achievements, or even heed and ask their advice on how they reached such milestones.
Narcissistic – First let me place the google definition of a narcissistic personality Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration.
Now we apply this definition to HJP. I will denote a Yes or No, based on my personal opinion of whether or not I noticed it. Feel free to argue if you feel otherwise.
1. Self Centered – Nope, the fact that HJP’s job is to help startups, and he becomes a mentor to SDM proves he is not. He even runs to help SST stop getting acqhired. He has a lot of selfless deeds that really go unnoticed.
2. Arrogant thinking and Behaviour – I’ve already explained this in the adjective of arrogance, I don’t find HJP an arrogance character at all.
3. Lack of Empathy and Consideration for other people – Also no, at the very least he is considerate of SDM, and we see this with how he interacts with her. He also empathizes with Halmoni, and in many ways is considerate of SST as a company. He even is considerate of NDS actions during his confession to SDM, where he tells SDM about how NDS actions were not because of HJP.
4. An excessive need for admiration – Also no, if this was the case, then all of HJP’s good deeds, he would be shouting it at the top of the world, looking for praise. He does not. He does the good deeds expecting not much in return.
“Indeed, he was helping the team, but he never showed it to others”
This is why a lot of people felt he was very self-less. He helped people not to gain praise or admiration, he did it because he was either being self-less, or he was being professional in doing his job.
NDS varies greatly here. When NDS does something, he has to go out and tell people of what he had did, to either gain praise or sympathy. If it’s not him doing it, it’s one of his friends, or his parents. For HJP, a lot of his good deeds go unnoticed, he doesn’t feel the need to go out and shout it out to the world. This is in line with HJP’s personality of being selfless and not using accolades as the motivating force to do good, he just does it. Even if by doing good, it hurts him, he still does it, because HJP is a “Good Boy”. We rarely if ever see HJP angsting, or acting pitiful to gain sympathy from SDM, he suffers alone for the most part, except for a few scenes where he breaks down with Halmoni.
“He wasn't supportive in the way others needed support. I think writer did that intentionally.”
This is your subjective opinion. It’s funny how Yong San and SDM disagree with you. Using dialogue from the show, here is some truth bombs.
Yong San: We don’t need empty compliments right now, what we need now is your honest criticism.
SDM: I want facts, not a future filled with hopes and dreams that will never come. I want reality, I want your objective and honest opinion.
Sounds to me this completely contradicts your statement. HJP was providing them the needed support, but it took maturity and failure to open their eyes and realize his support is the support they needed all along. They were too stuck in their dreamer mentality that they became shocked when the bubble popped; because just like all dreams, you eventually wake up from it.
“Yes, good in heart, but harsh outside. Understandable past. But you can't deny pretty bad things he done and forgive him on only being an orphan in the past.”
If you are normalizing NDS behaviour, why can’t you offer the same for HJP? You think NDS violence is a small matter, but the so called “bad things” that HJP did is not forgivable? Also, what exactly are the bad things that HJP has done?
Being an orphan doesn’t excuse bad behaviour. The orphan backstory just helped us realize and reflect on the difficulty of HJP’s life, and give audience even bigger motivation to wish for HJP’s happy ending.
I can also say the same thing for NDS. His parents were strict so he lied to them for 15 years, wasted their money, and is aloof from them and doesn’t call them for 3 years? Yeah that’s even more unforgiveable that whatever you feel HJP has done, which is not much.
“I had more love towards Dosan. Even after first few episodes, when he revealed his "anger issues", which wasn't even a matter, but a good laugh from time to time, and understandable behaviour.”
You laughed at NDS angers issues, and felt this is normal? All I can say is WOW… “He wasn't a bad character at all, and fans outshining HJP and putting every other character in garbage is awful.”
NDS was a poorly written, mentally weak ML that was outshined by the goodness of HJP. That is an assertion that is supported by the majority. On most online polls, at least 70% of fans support HJP. This reflects societal values, and how people thought HJP had more to root for than NDS.
Also, not all the characters were bad. Yong San and Cheul San actually had their good moments. Even though SDM was weakly written in the later episodes, she had her moments also, and is generally likeable. Same for Saha and the side characters. Only NDS is the really unlikeable ML.
“HJP deserved A LOT of what he got. And I haven't seen him being "punchbag", atleast for first 10 episodes. Apart from comedic and funny moments (if nitpicking him from time to time as a comedy element is "punchbag", which outrages his fans, I don't really know what to say). His story was great, heartbreaking, but heartwarming as well. He portrayed his character (atleast for me) just as I said. He wasn't very good in terms of relations to other.”
Not quite sure what you are saying here, but HJP basically is the sandbox of SDM and SST. He selflessly save them, even when they were pushing him away. And when they didn’t need him, he was cast aside. The way SST and SDM treats HJP, is the same way NDS treats his parents. It’s not a very healthy relationship. What kept most fans continue watching is the hopes that HJP’s constant selflessness would end up with some sort of happy ending. But until the end, he just became their eternal sandbox.
“Regarding relationships of kdrama in general - really liked the way they are portrayed in the show - not perfect, challenging, but realistic.”
Start Up is as fluffy as fluffy as it can be. There was no real challenges faced by the ML, except the invisible barriers constructed by their minds. The ML was created imperfect for the first 6 episodes, but quickly fixed to be your typical ML perfection by Ep.7. And a lot of the gripe of the show has been the unrealistic portrayal of relationships, startups, family dynamics, and etc…
“Not something behind the bars mattered, but something on the scene - and HJP on the scene were mostly looking as pretty harsh to others. As a viewer, you wanted to hug him or whatever, but it was understandable that he couldn't recieve anticipated by fans if he didn't broke "the wall" he had towards people around him and change. Yes, he had a past that explains it. But he couldn't make it. It was intentionally, and it played out greatly.”
Not sure what you are saying here.
“Regarding letters, he wasn't even sincere in them, putting first thing to come in mind. He never developed feelings for Dalmi till somewhere in the middle of the show.”
He clearly had feelings for SDM for a much longer time. The fact that his last line to SDM is “Your letters were a source of comfort for me” You know who else fell in love because the letters were a comfort to her? That’s right SDM. What may have started out as initially a chore, eventually became something he looked forward to, and it eventually blossomed into love. Just because it’s not shown on screen, doesn’t’ meant the audience does not feel it. “And she never seen him in this light”.
He was never really given the chance, HJP screen time and presence with SDM was severely cut.
“On par, Dosan, were found more vulnerable by me and I couldn't do anything but root for him. He had problems, he were too emotional sometimes, but it was all intended, and it DID play out well in the show. I really don't know what anyone else expected, but writer did a great job for me.”
Key word here being “For you”. “For me”, this wasn’t the case. I found it difficult to relate to any of NDS actions.
“This writer does it quite differently than others, so if you watch too many kdramas at once, perhaps you may end up getting wrong impression. If Dalmi would develop romantic relations with Han Ji Pyeong, I believe it'd be super anticlimatic and end up in a boring piece of series like Secretary Kim, TKEM or Her Private Life. Or maybe something like Love O2O, where characters constantly compliment each other and everything is a boring setting”
Interesting you think this, since the whole time, everyone was just praising NDS and complimenting him. I guess you think Start Up is boring them based on your definition.
“And oh, how you can deny dynamics of the show. Things were dragging few times, but dynamics were always there. In every scene. Little expressions, dialogues, jokes. There were plenty of stuff told about Start Up and business for a kdrama, and especially for a rom-com. I found myself some handy things as well. The business ideas never felt rushed and cringy, and felt like possible things that could work. I really liked that. It was never boring, there were almost none dull moments.”
I did not rate poorly due to being bored by it. I rated poorly for the reasons I stated in my review. Did you read my review? I explained it quite well.
You had no problems with the inconsistent characterizations plot holes, degradation of plot points, unhealthy morals, unrealistic portrayal of the tech start up industry, the unhealthy familial relationship, the imposter syndrome, and the codependent relationship among other things? And i'm not even including the many things NDS did that would make a girl, raised some red flags if they were dating him...
I guess we differ. I consider MDL ratings to be a reflection of quality writing, well created characters, precision of plot, and consistent characterization.
It appears, based on your words, you base your ratings on who your bias is, and whether you liked the actor/actress in the drama. Which is your right of course, we just have different criteria to ratings then.
But Start Up is slowly taking that place as I'm seeing it mentioned in other comment sections LOL!
I think the viewership in Ratings would beg to differ. This show barely cracked 5%.
And even then, I would also beg to differ :)
Your opinion though in the end.
Not everyone will tell you the harsh truth, most people just don't care, and just want to use you or get information from you, and so they are nice to you. In fact the people who are harsh to you are probably the ones who care more.
Take parents for example. If you are about to fail, most people won't care. But your parents may shout at you, and chide you, but you may see this as strict parents. Until you fall, and guess what, those people who you thought are your friends are nowhere to be found, but your parents will still be there even when you treat them the way NDS treats his mom and dad.
I can't help it. Sometimes when I see a POV so off base, I try to inject some of my experiences into it. But in all honesty, with all the NDS fans I have debated with, most call me a blind biased HJP fan, regardless of the validity of my arguments. Some of them like @jeanfiles are great to talk with, but some of these new NDS fans don't listen or accept any type of reasoning.
There's an idea. If Suzy and NJH instead were college students creating a start up from their parent's garage, and it showed their journey without a love triangle, it would have been 10 times better.
I also would have liked it if HJP in the end could be part of the SDM and NDS family, but they placed too many frictional situations between NDS and HJP for that to happen. They only made up on Ep. 16? LOL!
But a lot of necessary scenes were not included, and lots of unnecessary scenes were included.
That last minute love triangle between Cheul San and Yong San was so unnecessary. While the halmoni and HJP conversation should have been shown.
I think SDM and HJP have 6 year age gap.
But the did cut a lot of screen time for HJP. And after EP. 10 's emotional scene, they never bothered circling back to show what HJP and Halmoni talked about. In fact, they did limit a lot of HJP and Halmoni scenes.
It has been talked about and confirmed by HJP's last line in Ep. 16 that HJP has always loved SDM. Let me explain briefly.
SDM falls for HJP of the letters, because in her lowest point, the letters comforted her.
HJP falls for SDM of the letters, because in his lowest point, the letters comforted him. And he actually tells SDM this in the end.
But the issue with HJP is that just as he is ramping up to spending time with SDM, and proving that he is the man for her. The writer creates a time skip where HJP does nothing for three years, yet still pines for SDM. It's a ridiculous plot point.
I just want to add that what I love about the show is the contradictions between the ML and FL.
The ML is aloof and shows little emotions, yet he will has the inner fire to defend a teammate, and take responsibility.
The FL lead is prideful, but she is willing to grovel and beg when needed.
It will be interesting to see if both the FL and ML will be able to grow out of these contradictory stances, and eventually break out into more stable stances, since these contradictions are mainly because of situations they cannot control.
Plus, i'm tired of ML who knows everything. This ML googles a lot! I love when he googles things, showing he is not infallible.
I believe this is on purpose by the writer, because he wanted to make the quirkiness and inner strength of the other characters shine even more.
Does it mean in S2 he broke up with his gf in S1?
I love junki btw, he is seriously so funny in Waikiki 2
For this post, I will be using the style of responding to each of your points in quotations. I feel this is a more organized way of writing and counter arguing, and will add needed clarity to our hopefully fruitful discussion.
I apologize ahead of time, this will be a long post. I hope you show me the respect I showed you and actually read all of it, and not just skim through it. I’ve had a lot of fruitless discussion with NDS fan’s who don’t show me the respect of reading my whole reply. Without further ado, let us begin...
“I'm sorry, but I can't understand this overrating of HJP. Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings”
I wouldn’t worry too much about hurting HJP fan’s feelings, most of us here are quite mature and can accept criticism of HJP. I can at least speak for myself, that even if you called HJP the most toxic Kdrama character in history, I would not be offended, I would simply respond with my own opinions on your assertions.
It also makes sense that you cannot see HJP’s many great qualities, and instead manifest flaws, that only a few see. This is because you prefer NDS over HJP, and since these two fictional characters are in contention for SDM’s heart, it would make sense that you will feel that NDS, your preferred end game, would look better in comparison. This is just human nature, nothing more, nothing less. So let’s move along.
“He was indeed a great character, but he was harsh, "looking down", arrogant and narcisstic. There were times when I wanted to punch his nasty smirk face even more than ML.”
This statement seems a bit paradoxical and hypocritical. You claim he was a great character, but then you feel he has all these major flaws, that you wanted to punch him. I think what you meant to say is that HJP is a complex and interesting character, and that the actor KSH played him so amazingly, that you felt like punching HJP, because of how the actor KSH made you feel.
The only part I would agree with is that HJP is a complex and interesting character. I don’t agree with the rest of your statement, and I’m going to go into detail here of why. Let us first discuss the three adjectives you use to describe HJP, and I will also look into the “Smirk” that angered you so much.
Harsh and Looking Down– I think a lot of how we deal with the Kdrama’s we watch is based on our own personal beliefs. As I cannot speak for you, since I don’t know you, I will speak about myself instead. I am in my early 30’s and an Asian female. Now, to be entirely honest, I don’t find the way HJP presents himself as harsh at all, if anything it’s very common to see this type of language being spoken from senior members of society towards more junior members. And this is much more apparent in Korean society, where your birth order is very important. That is why honorifics like Unnie, Oppa, Hyung, and Noona are important in Korean society, because of the respect the juniors MUST have for their seniors. In that same Korean society, the seniors are not actually expected to show the same respect, in fact in corporate Korea, the seniority can at times be quite extreme and border along the lines of western type of Hazing.
I am not Korean, so in my culture this is not as bad, but there is still an emphasis on seniority and respect for elders, even if that person is only 3-4 years older than me. It is a societal expectation.
The advice that HJP gives NDS may appear harsh to you and some people, but for me, he is being pragmatic, he is not sugar coating the truth. He is giving advice based on realistic simulations, real life experience, and his expertise in the field. I found the advice to be quite realistic in the sense that he never tells NDS to give up on his dreams, or to just go quit being a programmer, instead he challenges NDS on his flaws, he points out his short comings, and he even gives him advice on what path he needs to go.
Of course to a dreamer like NDS, this does not sound good, because as a dreamer, what makes you happy Is when someone says how great your dreams are, and how amazing your product is. But in reality HJP says it best “those people are not interested in you, that is why they are being nice to you, I am interested, and that is why I’m being honest” This line is later parroted by Chairman Yoo in the later episodes, she uses the same words, but in albeit softer tone, which should not matter, since the message is the same. This line form both Chairman Yoo and HJP is probably the single most important line that people can learn from the show. That you should be wary of people who keeps telling you how amazing you are, and instead listen to the ones who are honest with you, regardless of how painful the truth sounds.
But, I’m Asian, and I’ve been surrounded by the harsh Asian society for most of my life, and because of this, I have become more mentally resilient. I get a lot of this harshness from my parents as well. I’m sure you’ve at least heard of Tiger parenting? Harshness as you call it, is just a potentially good message, being clouded in a strong tone, and less than ideal words. So once again, due to my own personal experience, I find HJP not to be harsh at all, just pragmatic and a realist not willing to sugar coat things. In fact, this all ties in with HJP’s backstory. As an orphan, you are taught very early to grow up and mistrust the world. You learn very early that the world isn’t all candies and cake, and life is harsh. So the way I see it, HJP sees NDS, sees his lack of ambition, and his dreamer mentality, and he just wanted to temper all that with realism, since HJP himself has learned the hard way, nothing is that easy. And this view from HJP is very relatable to most people, because life is indeed harsh, and we can’t all be as lucky as SST and see good fortunes just fall into our lap like that.
SDM best explains this when she says the odds of NDS being discovered by Alex is one in ten million. Just an FYI, the odds of winning the lottery has been calculated at 1 in 13 million. SDM is clearly saying NDS is very lucky here. Which he is, and the audience agrees that SST has been lucky throughout the show’s runs.
Looking Down – You have to remember HJP is in a high position with an investment firm that has responsibility to its clientele. This isn’t a law firm where you can just do pro bono cases for charity. This is a company where when clients lose money because the company makes bad investment, people get angry, people get sued, and sometimes people get violent. So in light of this, HJP tends to err on the safer side when choosing which investment SH ventures will do, and it looks like he is very good at his job considering how high his position and how large his bonus is at the beginning of the show. So what you take as “looking down” is just him being realistic with NDS and SST. They lack many factors that a successful start-up needs; In fact, they cannot answer the question that most investment professionals will ask. “How do you monetize your product”? How can any start up create a blueprint of success if they cannot convince VC money, which they need, how their product will be profitable? If you think VC companies are all just warm teddy bears whose biggest concern is how to save the forest while losing money, then you don’t understand how VC companies work.
Also, what is lost to many NDS fans is that HJP actually changes his stance on SST at around Ep. 3 at the 1 hour, 5 minute mark. The thing about HJP is that he is an character that has showed consistent character growth since episode 1. And he is a character that is willing to admit if he has made a mistake, and even willing to give due when it is deserved or earned.
Arrogant – There is a thing line between arrogance and confidence, and for you, he crosses the line into arrogance for most of the show. But for me, he is right on that line, with leanings into confidence. A lot of the words he says, a lot of the advice he gives is because of his confidence in his abilities. To people who are insecure like NDS and SST, this simply comes off as pure arrogance, but for people who are willing to learn, willing to improve, and are secure in themselves like SDM, this simply comes as advice from a confident person.
It’s like on Facebook, you will see people in sales, post about their achievements, the milestones they have hit, how much money they have made even. If you are insecure about the money you have earned that year, or are insecure about yourself in general, there is a very real possibility you will call this person arrogance, boastful, and even malicious. But if your secure in yourself, then you can just appreciate that person for their achievements, or even heed and ask their advice on how they reached such milestones.
Narcissistic – First let me place the google definition of a narcissistic personality
Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration.
Now we apply this definition to HJP. I will denote a Yes or No, based on my personal opinion of whether or not I noticed it. Feel free to argue if you feel otherwise.
1. Self Centered – Nope, the fact that HJP’s job is to help startups, and he becomes a mentor to SDM proves he is not. He even runs to help SST stop getting acqhired. He has a lot of selfless deeds that really go unnoticed.
2. Arrogant thinking and Behaviour – I’ve already explained this in the adjective of arrogance, I don’t find HJP an arrogance character at all.
3. Lack of Empathy and Consideration for other people – Also no, at the very least he is considerate of SDM, and we see this with how he interacts with her. He also empathizes with Halmoni, and in many ways is considerate of SST as a company. He even is considerate of NDS actions during his confession to SDM, where he tells SDM about how NDS actions were not because of HJP.
4. An excessive need for admiration – Also no, if this was the case, then all of HJP’s good deeds, he would be shouting it at the top of the world, looking for praise. He does not. He does the good deeds expecting not much in return.
“Indeed, he was helping the team, but he never showed it to others”
This is why a lot of people felt he was very self-less. He helped people not to gain praise or admiration, he did it because he was either being self-less, or he was being professional in doing his job.
NDS varies greatly here. When NDS does something, he has to go out and tell people of what he had did, to either gain praise or sympathy. If it’s not him doing it, it’s one of his friends, or his parents. For HJP, a lot of his good deeds go unnoticed, he doesn’t feel the need to go out and shout it out to the world. This is in line with HJP’s personality of being selfless and not using accolades as the motivating force to do good, he just does it. Even if by doing good, it hurts him, he still does it, because HJP is a “Good Boy”. We rarely if ever see HJP angsting, or acting pitiful to gain sympathy from SDM, he suffers alone for the most part, except for a few scenes where he breaks down with Halmoni.
“He wasn't supportive in the way others needed support. I think writer did that intentionally.”
This is your subjective opinion. It’s funny how Yong San and SDM disagree with you. Using dialogue from the show, here is some truth bombs.
Yong San: We don’t need empty compliments right now, what we need now is your honest criticism.
SDM: I want facts, not a future filled with hopes and dreams that will never come. I want reality, I want your objective and honest opinion.
Sounds to me this completely contradicts your statement. HJP was providing them the needed support, but it took maturity and failure to open their eyes and realize his support is the support they needed all along. They were too stuck in their dreamer mentality that they became shocked when the bubble popped; because just like all dreams, you eventually wake up from it.
“Yes, good in heart, but harsh outside. Understandable past. But you can't deny pretty bad things he done and forgive him on only being an orphan in the past.”
If you are normalizing NDS behaviour, why can’t you offer the same for HJP? You think NDS violence is a small matter, but the so called “bad things” that HJP did is not forgivable? Also, what exactly are the bad things that HJP has done?
Being an orphan doesn’t excuse bad behaviour. The orphan backstory just helped us realize and reflect on the difficulty of HJP’s life, and give audience even bigger motivation to wish for HJP’s happy ending.
I can also say the same thing for NDS. His parents were strict so he lied to them for 15 years, wasted their money, and is aloof from them and doesn’t call them for 3 years? Yeah that’s even more unforgiveable that whatever you feel HJP has done, which is not much.
“I had more love towards Dosan. Even after first few episodes, when he revealed his "anger issues", which wasn't even a matter, but a good laugh from time to time, and understandable behaviour.”
You laughed at NDS angers issues, and felt this is normal? All I can say is WOW…
“He wasn't a bad character at all, and fans outshining HJP and putting every other character in garbage is awful.”
NDS was a poorly written, mentally weak ML that was outshined by the goodness of HJP. That is an assertion that is supported by the majority. On most online polls, at least 70% of fans support HJP. This reflects societal values, and how people thought HJP had more to root for than NDS.
Also, not all the characters were bad. Yong San and Cheul San actually had their good moments. Even though SDM was weakly written in the later episodes, she had her moments also, and is generally likeable. Same for Saha and the side characters. Only NDS is the really unlikeable ML.
“HJP deserved A LOT of what he got. And I haven't seen him being "punchbag", atleast for first 10 episodes. Apart from comedic and funny moments (if nitpicking him from time to time as a comedy element is "punchbag", which outrages his fans, I don't really know what to say). His story was great, heartbreaking, but heartwarming as well. He portrayed his character (atleast for me) just as I said. He wasn't very good in terms of relations to other.”
Not quite sure what you are saying here, but HJP basically is the sandbox of SDM and SST. He selflessly save them, even when they were pushing him away. And when they didn’t need him, he was cast aside. The way SST and SDM treats HJP, is the same way NDS treats his parents. It’s not a very healthy relationship. What kept most fans continue watching is the hopes that HJP’s constant selflessness would end up with some sort of happy ending. But until the end, he just became their eternal sandbox.
“Regarding relationships of kdrama in general - really liked the way they are portrayed in the show - not perfect, challenging, but realistic.”
Start Up is as fluffy as fluffy as it can be. There was no real challenges faced by the ML, except the invisible barriers constructed by their minds. The ML was created imperfect for the first 6 episodes, but quickly fixed to be your typical ML perfection by Ep.7. And a lot of the gripe of the show has been the unrealistic portrayal of relationships, startups, family dynamics, and etc…
“Not something behind the bars mattered, but something on the scene - and HJP on the scene were mostly looking as pretty harsh to others. As a viewer, you wanted to hug him or whatever, but it was understandable that he couldn't recieve anticipated by fans if he didn't broke "the wall" he had towards people around him and change. Yes, he had a past that explains it. But he couldn't make it. It was intentionally, and it played out greatly.”
Not sure what you are saying here.
“Regarding letters, he wasn't even sincere in them, putting first thing to come in mind. He never developed feelings for Dalmi till somewhere in the middle of the show.”
He clearly had feelings for SDM for a much longer time. The fact that his last line to SDM is “Your letters were a source of comfort for me” You know who else fell in love because the letters were a comfort to her? That’s right SDM. What may have started out as initially a chore, eventually became something he looked forward to, and it eventually blossomed into love. Just because it’s not shown on screen, doesn’t’ meant the audience does not feel it.
“And she never seen him in this light”.
He was never really given the chance, HJP screen time and presence with SDM was severely cut.
“On par, Dosan, were found more vulnerable by me and I couldn't do anything but root for him. He had problems, he were too emotional sometimes, but it was all intended, and it DID play out well in the show. I really don't know what anyone else expected, but writer did a great job for me.”
Key word here being “For you”. “For me”, this wasn’t the case. I found it difficult to relate to any of NDS actions.
“This writer does it quite differently than others, so if you watch too many kdramas at once, perhaps you may end up getting wrong impression. If Dalmi would develop romantic relations with Han Ji Pyeong, I believe it'd be super anticlimatic and end up in a boring piece of series like Secretary Kim, TKEM or Her Private Life. Or maybe something like Love O2O, where characters constantly compliment each other and everything is a boring setting”
Interesting you think this, since the whole time, everyone was just praising NDS and complimenting him. I guess you think Start Up is boring them based on your definition.
“And oh, how you can deny dynamics of the show. Things were dragging few times, but dynamics were always there. In every scene. Little expressions, dialogues, jokes. There were plenty of stuff told about Start Up and business for a kdrama, and especially for a rom-com. I found myself some handy things as well. The business ideas never felt rushed and cringy, and felt like possible things that could work. I really liked that. It was never boring, there were almost none dull moments.”
I did not rate poorly due to being bored by it. I rated poorly for the reasons I stated in my review. Did you read my review? I explained it quite well.
But I started 2 because of KSH, yes.