Platinum Fox

It wasn't just Beom Seok who put Suho in a coma. It was a combination of all the boys who beat on him after he was down and the motorcycle crash. Was Beom Seok the catalyst, yes. Let me ask you a question. Would Beom Seok have done what he did had Suho allowed him to beat up the people who had previously bullied him? Remember Beom Seok's dad wanted him to stand up and fight against people who had bullied him and literally beat him when he didn't. Suho takes this chance away from him in the karaoke bar. Suho makes the decision for him. A friend would have allowed Beom Seok to seek his revenge and help by keeping him in check. However, Suho makes the decision to not let Beom Seok seek revenge, so it is understandable why Beom Seok goes over to the other side. So one could argue was Suho really his friend?

Also, why is Si Eun the only one allowed a weapon while fighting?

Yes, and presently her vision is unclear in regards to Gang Cheol and the 8 ft creature!

I am not familiar with the 8 ft ghost's clothes. However, I did look up what the Qing and Joseon soldiers wore. The outfit appears to be Joseon's studded armor. Since it is red, the person wearing it must be the king's father. For me, the 8 ft. creature appears to be the king's father. It would go a long way to explain why it didn't kill the crown prince and the king immediately.

Something tells me that the grandpa is full of rage because he thought he could use his daughter as a way to control the previous king and to a certain extent must have. However, the previous king rebelled and the grandfather tried to kill the present day king, but the father saved him. In the process the mother must have died adding to the grandpa's rage. Remember the whole story is based on the concept of what you do also affects future generations. So whatever the father did is now affecting the son and the grandson who are totally innocent of the whole mess.

Since the queen dowager was married to the previous king and the other queen was killed, the queen dowager took over as queen. Yet, her son was not made king when the king died. She's full of rage because of this.

You also have the concept of the more a spirit performs evil acts, the more evil it becomes. The 8 ft. creature appears evil, but what evil act has it really performed? I believe the 8 ft. creature is trying to redeem itself for whatever happened in the past. This way it can cross over.

The 8 ft creature and Gang Cheol are a great deal alike. They are greatly misunderstood both are seeking redemption which is what the fantasy genre is all about.

These are just my thoughts. Happy drama watching.

Funny, I don't think the 8 ft creature is evil at all. First, the 8ft creature could have killed the crown prince immediately, but didn't. Why? Also, it could have killed the king immediately, but didn't. Why? In addition, the crown prince said the 8 ft. creature is sad. Why is it sad? I have never really heard of a sad evil spirit. The 8 ft. creature reminds us of the person who saved the child in the opening scenes. It wears a garment that has the silver beads sewn into it. Finally, the only person the 8 ft creature kills is the queen dowager's son. Why, because he is truly evil. For me, the 8 ft. creature is just a pawn for the mastermind to use over and over. I think it is like Gang Cheol, a very misunderstood spirit, and I do love it.

You should watch Jewel in the Crown.

Yes, they made it pretty clear that he is the final boss or the elder that the blind shaman was talking to before the grandpa came to see the blind man shaman in episode 8. What we don't know is why is the grandpa full of rage?

Yes, the grandfather is the main culprit behind the 8ft. creature. I am thinking he wanted the queen dowager's son to be king instead of the present king. Now that the queen dowager's son is dead. He must have someone else in mind for the throne.

It all goes back to the beginning sequence. Why was the village being massacred and who was the child saved by the person in the red, beaded outfit? The child who saw Gang Cheol ascend.

Yes, I have suspected him since he came into the picture, Bibi confirmed it for me when he said that the man was full of rage. Now, we just need to know why he is full of rage against the king. They also confirm it when he goes to visit the blind shaman. The blind shaman also has a beef with the king, so this makes for group of villains.

Also, I don't understand why everyone thinks the 8ft spirit is the villain. The creature is clearly being used as a pawn in someone's game. In fact all the spirits in this drama are being used as someone's pawn whether they are good or bad. The spirits are not villains, just unwilling participants. The spirits don't mind being used by Yeo Ri because she does something in return for them. Only the blind shaman uses them for evil.

Yes, he is the king's grandfather on his mother's side.

The grandfather of the king

Yes, I understand. Posters have told me that I analyze dramas way too much. We all have different reasons for watching dramas. For me, if the drama has nothing to analyze or say, copies other dramas, or the central message has a particular meaning, then I find that drama boring. Now, if they copy the drama and enhance the technique that they borrow, then I am okay with that. The Glory did this with the ending.

The Double and The Glory had their good points and bad points. What I can appreciate about both of them is that they ask women to think for themselves and not make their identity all about pleasing a man. Which as we know was once the focal point of a woman's life.

Thanks for the discussion. Happy drama watching.

This is the first drama that I have not wanted to end. I am even putting off watching the last six episodes to avoid this from happening. Loved all the main characters and the actors who played them in this. This is the first Bai Lu drama that I will actually watch all the way through.

Ripped off the bandaid and watched the rest of the drama. Just amazing and what a powerful message. I am surprised that this drama is rated so low.

I am still very confused. Why would Yeo Ri tell him about the blind shaman? You're right. Yeo Ri has run into the blind shaman and the guards have run into the blind man's apprentice, but they don't know that the apprentice and the blind man are working together. The guards know that apprentice works for the blind shaman, but Yeo Ri doesn't. Yeo Ri knows that the blind shaman has come to the palace. Everyone needs to get together and compare notes.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I understand where you are coming from and you have a clear sense of what you consider right and wrong. I agree with you on some points and disagree with you on others.

First, I disagree that Suho and Si Eun were friends before BS entered the picture. The two had very different lives. Suho was involved in fighting; Si Eun wasn't. Suho had two jobs and was tired all time and slept in school. Si Eun studied all the time and even went to academies after school. When would the two of them had time to become friends. Their lives only intersected once BS came into the picture and only after Baek Seom was being beaten by the main bully.

Secondly, you're right a lot of kids are abused by their parents and are bullied at school and don't turn out that way. However, most abused kids are abused by their parents for senseless reasons. Baek Seom's father did it for a reason. He was trying to toughen up his kid and make him fight back. In a sense the father was actually grooming his kid to be a bully rather than just stand up for himself and fight back. When BS acts the way his father has taught him, the father ships him overseas because BS went too far. I am not saying that Baek Seom should not be held accountable for what he did. He should. I am saying that Baek Seom had many reasons to do what he did. His environment and the educational belief system (solve the problem by transferring the student), doesn't solve anything. You have to look at the root of the problem not just the symptoms.

Third, you're also right. The group he joins has the very people who bullied him. However, he is a part of the group. He is the weakest member of that group until he comes up with the plan to get rid of Suho, then he becomes the strongest member. Remember no other person in the group wants to go up against Suho, so how can Baek Seom become the leader of the group? Solve the problem, take out Suho. His money bought him power and influence within that group. Baek Seom just made it happen with his wealth. Baek Seom saw his chance to gain his father's respect and be a leader. However, he crossed a line. Would you rather be a leader or a minion? His dad wanted him to be a leader. Well he was, he just went too far.

These are just my thoughts. People want a villain. People want someone to blame. My question has always been where are the teachers and parents while this is happening. It was spelled out in this drama. The teachers just want to keep the peace and pass the student on to the next school. The parents want to keep their kids' reputation clean. The students just feel like it is a part of growing up. The proof is when Si Eun goes to the next school; the cycle continues. When will stop? For me, that is what makes this whole drama very sad as none of them are willing to look at themselves to see if they are the problem. Si Eun is the shining example in this drama. He does ask himself, how can I make this change? First, it is to forgive Baek Seom.

Thank you for your thoughts and discussion. Happy drama watching.

teddy, in these dramas I have often wondered where are the parents and teachers. How can these students get away with beating up on these people so much?

The answer was given to me when the main male bully is allowed to transfer to another school despite the fact that he assaulted someone with drugs and the evidence was clear as day. The teacher said, "I think it best he transfer to another school." The parent agrees. This tells me that the teachers and parents are complacent to this type of behavior. It is just a part of growing up which is really sad. Si Eun's father also makes a very good statement, "I thought raising a kid would be easy. I thought kids raised themselves." What is really telling is Baek Seom's father's belief system. If you don't stand up for yourself and fight back, I will beat you (literally) until you do. " What message is that sending to your child. Baek Seom's father also keeps sending the message, if you don't do this don't expect me to love you or acknowledge you as my son. Baek Seom says to his dad, "I never asked you to adopt me."

There is also the power issue going on in this drama. The people in power do not need to take responsibility for their actions. They are above the law. Let's just transfer them to another school (both the main male bully and Baek Seom). The people in power also happen to have money. Si Eun is also transferred to another school, but it is not as nice as the one he was at. Again, the perpetrators get away while the victim has to suck it up.

So how much is he responsible for the end? He is 100% responsible. He has the power of free will or choice. However, I argue that he is the scapegoat (or groomed) for what is wrong with the environment that was created around his character. From the very beginning Baek Seom was a weak character who was bullied and punished abusively by his dad. He saw a chance to earn his father's respect and make a name for himself among his rich peers (who wanted revenge on Suho as much as Baek Seom). At the end, Suho is also made into a scapegoat. The rich group blame him for all their problems. So why not beat him up if someone else can make this happen. This is the way of the rich. They can't do it themselves, they get someone else to do it.

In the end, did the bullying stop at just that school. No, Si Eun goes to another school and guess what, it begins all over again. The environment and belief system have to change in order for the consequences to change.

Thank you for the discussion.

Actually, they have already put it together for us, we just have to put it altogether. The only thing we don't know is why the grandpa is full of rage against the king.

That is a possibility, but I think it is more than that. The 8ft creature is just a pawn in the queen dowager and grandpa's game. Maybe this is why it is sad? It is doing things it doesn't want to do.

Not sure who you are referring to as the black finger man.

Yes, you are right we have to give credit to the older historical dramas as well. There seems to be a resurgence in defining what it means to be a strong, noble, independent woman. No longer are dramas about bickering women, but women who actually help each other. You still have the stereotypical villain (male and female), who causes all the drama. But women are not portrayed as evil witches with a b).

I agree with you, the heroine in The Double is indeed evil. For me, the ending was perfect (without the bonus five minutes). Also, I felt The Double was a dark parody on popular historical dramas, in particular LLtG.

Finally, a commenter who was watching LLtG wrote that the screenwriter was pulling The Glory move when it came to the mother not being very nice to her daughter. I wrote the commenter and said, LLtG came out before The Glory, so technically The Glory pulled a LLtG move.

For me, The Double and The Glory are interpretations of LLtG. jmo Whether one is better or not is up to the viewer.

You also have to ask why does Gang Cheol want Yeo Ri to be his vessel. There are many more shamans out there who could help him ascend (the monk). it is because she looks at people and spirits in a different way. She doesn't judge their actions. She doesn't categorize people as good or bad. She just wants to help them be able to cross over. She is innocent and pure. So in a sense she is blind to evil because essentially, she believes people aren't evil, but some event(s) in their lives make them do evil things. Yeo Ri only thinks Gang Cheol is evil because her grandmother says he is evil, and YR should stay away from him at all cost (also she is only 13 and not ready for the final battle). Because of this everything that Gang Cheol does appears evil. It is only by her really and truly getting to know him, that she finds out that he has been her guardian throughout her life. Do you know Anne Frank. Her diary pretty much says the same thing. She writes, "I still believe people are basically good at heart." Yeo Ri believes people are basically good at heart.

The celestial general/ Colossal Shadow is much like Gang Cheol. YR's first reaction is to get rid of it as it is a powerful spirit and appears to want to harm other people. It is a strong spirit, yet it didn't kill the crown prince immediately. Why, because the crown prince hasn't done anything wrong. It doesn't kill the king immediately because the king must be innocent as well. The only person the Colossal Shadow kills immediately is the queen dowager's son. Why, because he is evil. Once Yeo Ri can get it out of her head that the 8ft creature is not as evil as everyone thinks it is, she will be able to send it to the afterlife. The 8ft creature is just a pawn in the grandfather's and queen dowager's game.

The blind shaman is also just a pawn in the grandfather's and queen dowager's game. He has a second chance, what will he do with this chance? It appears that he will continue to do evil things, so evil things will come to him.

Remember the whole drama is based on if your family seeks to do good things your life will be filled with good things. If you seek to do evil things, your life will be filled with misery and suffering. Also, what happens in the past carries over to the next generation. jmo