This comment is like a breath of fresh air. Thank you for bringing a nuanced take! The thought process in the…
Numbing nonsense from start to finish.
In any case, a grown up person makes the decision to drink and subsequently have sex with someone, without being forced, there is no one else to be blamed.
And that goes for XS and everyone else, especially if you are the one who initiates. You could have such expectations for the other person not totake the chance when you are drunk, BUT CONSCIOUS, yet you cannot call the other one "rapist" or "sexual assaulter" if they take that chance. You can hate them for the rest of your life, your choice, but you cannot call them rapists. No court would ever find them sexual assaulters either. Because that was consensual. XS and YJ had "clean-cut" consent as well. Their sex may not have been clean-cut, but that does not go for the consent. There was obvious consent.
Being taken advantage is when someone is black out drunk and incapaciatated and is being sexually assaulted by someone else, without their consent and knowledge. And that is clearly not the case here. Intoxicated sex is not assault. If that was the case the whole planet would be sexually attacking itself all time.
Like Truth Dares said below: "Another gigantic bullshit. Like I said you should probably visit some bars, night clubs, disco clubs or house parties where people knowingly drink to lower their inhibitions and increase their self-confidence to have consensual sex afterwards, just like what happened to Xing Si. Do you think people in those places above all commit crimes? Ridiculous. Once again, you don't know the difference between giving consent while intoxicated and being unable to give consent while incapaciated."
They also list various forms of consensual sex after alcohol consumption. You should probably educate yourself on the subject. A bit harder than labelling others, spouting buzzwords and escaping to safe space from your imaginary high horse, but a bit more compelling.
This comment is like a breath of fresh air. Thank you for bringing a nuanced take! The thought process in the…
Jong Yie did not assault his brother. Periodt.
Knowing that someone wants to have sex with you, but he is afraid of doing it due to his inhibitions, hence having him drunk (Not forcing him top drink! He was drinking on his own choice), then achieving him wanting to make consensual sex with you (Xing Si made the first erotic step, people constantly ignore this, because it does not suit the agenda) is called "SEDUCTION".
It may well be a shceming and morally reprehensible thing to do - as it was in this case - but it is anything but sexual assault.
The whole bloody debate has been going around this in circles for a month, becasue people cannot, just cannot make this rudimentary distinction.
An no, people have never been like "I'm not a bad person, because what happened wasn't bad" and no one has ever defended this action or said this was right. Even you and mzmariam cannot escape using strawman arguments and putting words into other's mouth.
What people like me have stated from the beginning that it is possible to condenm what he did as morally dubious and wrong, without classifying it as sexual assualt.
It is a perfectly nuanced POV, and it has been argued meticulously by several like-minded fellow viewers of mine.
The mother went a bit too quickly from hysterical " You are sick, we can cure this, you should be normal and married to a woman, you are selfish, I don't accept you" homophobic bitch to an accepting mom and grandma, especially since she already has a lesbian daughter. This show is full of unrealistic twists and turns, for all its enjoyable content.
I enjoyed the first two episodes as well for all their faults, becasue they were immaculately done and entertaining (People freaked out by episode 2 need to take a chill pill and use their imagination. You are hilarious), but episodes 3 and 4 were even better. This seems to be a really nice and neatly made time-filler.
He didn't drug him, he got him drunk. The evil VP drugged Mu Ren - that's totally different. A 30-year old man…
Sometimes I was OK with it the day after, sometimes I regretted it. But in any case, I made the decision to drink, I was a grown up and I was the one who finally had sex with them, so I blamed no one else.
And that goes for XS and everyone else, especially if you are the one who initiates. You said you would expect to respect you would not do that, even if you initiate a sexual advance while drunk. You could have such expectations, but you cannot call the other one "rapist" or "sexual assaulter" if they take the chance. You can hate them for the rest of your life, your choice, but you cannot call them rapists. No court would ever find them sexual assaulters either. Because that was consensual. XS and YJ had "clean-cut" consent as well. Their sex may not have been clean-cut, but that does not go for the consent. There was obvious consent.
And, no, XS probably thought it was about to be a brotherly weekend at the beginning only. Once again, you either don't pay attention to details or just ignore them because they do not suit the agenda. XS knew YJ wanted to seduce him. He insisted on double bed, when he applied sun scream on the beach, YJ started to play with XS's nipples. Have you missed that part? And XS's stare? And have you missed how XS caressed YJ's cheek in the bar? It was a totally mutual sexual attraction and he knew what was coming, but people are in total denial about this.
And nothing is "brushed off". That is simply not true. I bang my head to the wall from strawman arguments like this. YJ was rejected not just by XS, but by his entire environment afterwards, and it was a long journey of redemption till XS accepted him (Roof scene, diaries, the way he channeled the anger of dad on himself to help XS going home, and at the end he was even ready to accept he should probably let XS go).
And no one is romanticizing it here, that is another rather vicious strawman argument to paint people who see it was not a sexual assault as "rape apologists" and so on. I cannot name one person from the past month, who while sharing my opinion about this did not emphasize at the same time what YJ did was morally still wrong.
The problem is that some of you just decided and being cemented to the opinion that after such a start, even if the whole planet burns down, these two cannot be together until the end of time. You know better than them, better than XS himself, better that anyone. If anything is not OK, this sense of entitlement certainly is not.
Meh. What a disappointing finale. In ep 11 it was established that the scandal burst out with the picture taken on the beach about Gene and Sib, but everyone from the press conference to Tiffy act as if it was done by Aoey's livestream, only to shift the blame onto him and give the MLs a free pass and easy way out. It is so manipulative and lazily written I could scream, but people happily go wit it. Sigh.
So Gene and Sib basically did what the production company asked them to do. They denied they were a couple and separated for 4 months. Then why the hell was the fuss and drama there in epsiode 11? And why did they break up? And how come they reconcile 4 months later by a flick if they broke up? Wtf? In episode 11 Gene says he cannot destroy Sib's carreer, Sib is begging for Gene not to leave him, then they tearfully depart. Then 4 months later Sib turns up, saying he did not renew his contract with wide open smile, then lovebirds playing. Again wtf?
All pretence of portraying the dark side, and ups and downs of BL industry is abandoned and flushed down the toilet to appoint one villain in a highly unpersuasive and one-dimensional way, and only to give the basic BL fans a quick happy ending with lovey-dovey scenes (most of them are meaningless and some of them are completely unnecessary fillers) as well as to leave loads of loose ends behind.
I enjoyed this series for most of the time, thanks to its acting, flesh and blood characters and some adult handling of conflicts, but from the moment they returned from their family homes, it went rapidly downhill. Lazy writing.
We going to have season 2 for sure! Thanks for all comments. I learn a lot from you and I'll do better. Again,…
We are looking forward to Season 2, Aam. Kudos to you and whole cast and crew, you all did amazing job. Thanks for the experience. I am sure it is an eye-opener for many.
I don't understand why the people who have rejected this series at week 3 and called all the viewers of this series…
Business as usual. Someone said weeks ago when the numpties flounced out that they are gonna come back to the finale for grandstanding and puking their venom. They are still thick as pigshit, and they still don't know or understand anything.
The whole shit was escalated by the picture taken on the beach, but never mind. If it comes to Sib, anything goes.
I really could not be arsed to keep this abortive argument with you. You don't even want to understand what I am talking about and keep distracting the attention from my points and talk about something else. My time and energy are way too limited for that.
The whole shit was escalated by the picture taken on the beach, but never mind. If it comes to Sib, anything goes.
That was quite a ludicrous word salad of tantrum. I do not hate Sib, that is an extremely stupid thing to say. He is a young and irresponsible youth who is in love. I just pointed out that people like you for instance are on full steroid hysteria to defend whatever he does, because he is the dashing main Top lead, while the rest of the cast are not allowed to be gullible and flawed human beings. That is very spectacular once you sail through this comment section. "That picture on the beach was Sib's personal life which her or no one else has the right to interfere in." - You miss the entire point so much it is painful. It does not matter. We all know that fan service is shit and BL world should not interfere with their lives, but that is how it is, and they knew when they entered this business. Their act affects the livelihood of hard-working, less better off persons of the show like Hin and Tum, but as I said elsewhere, people like you clearly do not give a flying fig about them as long as the main ship is sailing.
I'm curious as to why you hate the shipping? I know it is more crazy-intense in the world of BL, but it goes on…
I hope I am not wrong but that is what I see. Taiwanese fans gleefully shipped Chris and Jake, Andy and Kenny, Wayne Song and Huang Juan Zhi, Wilson and Thomas or Steven and Hang Zhang, and they all had - and some of them are still having - several fan services, but Taiwanese fans do not beset them in private life and do not go ballistic and have meltdown if they see them with someone else in public. Fandy Fan and Zach Lu were happily shipped as well and they had plenty of fan services with happy kissings. Zach is now a family man and a father of his recently born child, and everyone is very happy about that.
You've hit on a very important point about there being no stakes. Sib was only acting to get close to Gene, so…
I think showing the sides of Hin and Tum was supposed to be there to demonstrate this clusterfuck affects ordinary people like them and not the supposedly greedy investors who just move on to the next show lining up for sponsors. That the majority of viewers do not seem to give a fuck about people like Hin and Tum is another matter. They seem to think the MC should not make any compromise, they should be together instantly, sod everyone else.
In any case, a grown up person makes the decision to drink and subsequently have sex with someone, without being forced, there is no one else to be blamed.
And that goes for XS and everyone else, especially if you are the one who initiates. You could have such expectations for the other person not totake the chance when you are drunk, BUT CONSCIOUS, yet you cannot call the other one "rapist" or "sexual assaulter" if they take that chance. You can hate them for the rest of your life, your choice, but you cannot call them rapists. No court would ever find them sexual assaulters either. Because that was consensual. XS and YJ had "clean-cut" consent as well. Their sex may not have been clean-cut, but that does not go for the consent. There was obvious consent.
Being taken advantage is when someone is black out drunk and incapaciatated and is being sexually assaulted by someone else, without their consent and knowledge. And that is clearly not the case here. Intoxicated sex is not assault. If that was the case the whole planet would be sexually attacking itself all time.
Like Truth Dares said below: "Another gigantic bullshit. Like I said you should probably visit some bars, night clubs, disco clubs or house parties where people knowingly drink to lower their inhibitions and increase their self-confidence to have consensual sex afterwards, just like what happened to Xing Si. Do you think people in those places above all commit crimes? Ridiculous. Once again, you don't know the difference between giving consent while intoxicated and being unable to give consent while incapaciated."
They also list various forms of consensual sex after alcohol consumption. You should probably educate yourself on the subject. A bit harder than labelling others, spouting buzzwords and escaping to safe space from your imaginary high horse, but a bit more compelling.
Knowing that someone wants to have sex with you, but he is afraid of doing it due to his inhibitions, hence having him drunk (Not forcing him top drink! He was drinking on his own choice), then achieving him wanting to make consensual sex with you (Xing Si made the first erotic step, people constantly ignore this, because it does not suit the agenda) is called "SEDUCTION".
It may well be a shceming and morally reprehensible thing to do - as it was in this case - but it is anything but sexual assault.
The whole bloody debate has been going around this in circles for a month, becasue people cannot, just cannot make this rudimentary distinction.
An no, people have never been like "I'm not a bad person, because what happened wasn't bad" and no one has ever defended this action or said this was right. Even you and mzmariam cannot escape using strawman arguments and putting words into other's mouth.
What people like me have stated from the beginning that it is possible to condenm what he did as morally dubious and wrong, without classifying it as sexual assualt.
It is a perfectly nuanced POV, and it has been argued meticulously by several like-minded fellow viewers of mine.
And that goes for XS and everyone else, especially if you are the one who initiates. You said you would expect to respect you would not do that, even if you initiate a sexual advance while drunk. You could have such expectations, but you cannot call the other one "rapist" or "sexual assaulter" if they take the chance. You can hate them for the rest of your life, your choice, but you cannot call them rapists. No court would ever find them sexual assaulters either. Because that was consensual. XS and YJ had "clean-cut" consent as well. Their sex may not have been clean-cut, but that does not go for the consent. There was obvious consent.
And, no, XS probably thought it was about to be a brotherly weekend at the beginning only. Once again, you either don't pay attention to details or just ignore them because they do not suit the agenda. XS knew YJ wanted to seduce him. He insisted on double bed, when he applied sun scream on the beach, YJ started to play with XS's nipples. Have you missed that part? And XS's stare? And have you missed how XS caressed YJ's cheek in the bar? It was a totally mutual sexual attraction and he knew what was coming, but people are in total denial about this.
And nothing is "brushed off". That is simply not true. I bang my head to the wall from strawman arguments like this. YJ was rejected not just by XS, but by his entire environment afterwards, and it was a long journey of redemption till XS accepted him (Roof scene, diaries, the way he channeled the anger of dad on himself to help XS going home, and at the end he was even ready to accept he should probably let XS go).
And no one is romanticizing it here, that is another rather vicious strawman argument to paint people who see it was not a sexual assault as "rape apologists" and so on. I cannot name one person from the past month, who while sharing my opinion about this did not emphasize at the same time what YJ did was morally still wrong.
The problem is that some of you just decided and being cemented to the opinion that after such a start, even if the whole planet burns down, these two cannot be together until the end of time. You know better than them, better than XS himself, better that anyone. If anything is not OK, this sense of entitlement certainly is not.
So Gene and Sib basically did what the production company asked them to do. They denied they were a couple and separated for 4 months. Then why the hell was the fuss and drama there in epsiode 11? And why did they break up? And how come they reconcile 4 months later by a flick if they broke up? Wtf? In episode 11 Gene says he cannot destroy Sib's carreer, Sib is begging for Gene not to leave him, then they tearfully depart. Then 4 months later Sib turns up, saying he did not renew his contract with wide open smile, then lovebirds playing. Again wtf?
All pretence of portraying the dark side, and ups and downs of BL industry is abandoned and flushed down the toilet to appoint one villain in a highly unpersuasive and one-dimensional way, and only to give the basic BL fans a quick happy ending with lovey-dovey scenes (most of them are meaningless and some of them are completely unnecessary fillers) as well as to leave loads of loose ends behind.
I enjoyed this series for most of the time, thanks to its acting, flesh and blood characters and some adult handling of conflicts, but from the moment they returned from their family homes, it went rapidly downhill. Lazy writing.
"That picture on the beach was Sib's personal life which her or no one else has the right to interfere in." - You miss the entire point so much it is painful. It does not matter. We all know that fan service is shit and BL world should not interfere with their lives, but that is how it is, and they knew when they entered this business. Their act affects the livelihood of hard-working, less better off persons of the show like Hin and Tum, but as I said elsewhere, people like you clearly do not give a flying fig about them as long as the main ship is sailing.