soTreeD

yeah I know this thing has been going on with the novel fans for more than 10 years so how would we be able to come to agreement lol
But its still fun to discuss with each other and see different perspectives! Thanks for engaging with me.

I guess the drama production and Yangzi will have to convince us who is Xiaoyao's real love lol

I think that's why the drama screwed up the timeline. In the novel, I remember he just went to Qingshui town too late to save Xiaoliu, no reason given. But thats why in the drama it was confusing to me.

Not to mention at that point in the drama, Xiaoliu had never even seen Xiangliu use a bow before. Actually what will be funny will be if Xiangliu made the bow for Hong jiang but halfway changed his mind and gave to Xiaoyao. At least Xiaoyao would have one point against HJ.

I don't know if anyone has explained this before but can someone enlighten me, why did Xiangliu start to build a legendary bow 'for Xiaoliu' back in Qingshui town? Was there ever a moment in either the novel or drama where Xiaoliu even expressed that he wanted to learn how to do archery?

This has made me wonder for a long time, especially when I keep seeing claims that he made it for her specially. Did he make it for himself first, but changed his mind to gift it to her after she 'graduated'?
Or was this a timeline bug in the drama just to explain why he was not close to Qingshui town, and backfired because it made no sense?

That is because Xiaoyao is a person with feelings. She may say she is hard hearted but she is a very kind person, who can become ruthless to defend her loved ones.
Tonghua has said many times, this story is about familial love, romantic love and friendship. Its possible for Xiaoyao to have platonic love for Xiangliu without all the implications that you are trying to suggest?

Xiaoyao doesn't want to love someone romantically like him, and so she never did. As what she had told her sister, sometimes all you need to give up on someone if you don't love them is one reason.
"你应该能理解，真喜欢一个人，没有人能挡得住，不喜欢那个人，任何一个理由都会是放弃的理由。”

For Xiaoyao, that reason was they were enemies on the opposite side. Throughout the years, she never actively tried to get him to defect to their side again. She just accepted that they are on different sides. But he was the rare one whom she can click with, and she didn't want to give that up, even though yes he was temperamental and often dangerous. But in her youth, she had played with the snake demon who wanted to eat her too, Xiaoyao was just this 'weird' way.
As a princess, others feared her or kept her at arm's length. With Xiangliu, she at least knew he would be forthright with his transactions and also, he made her forget that she was Xiaoyao and was Wen Xiaoliu again ( during FFB days ). Back then Wen Xiaoliu and Xiangliu were 'manly' friends, I would hardly think that was a romantic way to consider as they spent time together.

She treasured her friendship with Xiangliu but she was never sure if he even treated her as a friend. Someone as careful with her heart as Xiaoyao doesn't go around giving it to anyone. She decided to give it to Tushan Jing and she thought she could retrieve it as she wanted, only to realize its not as easy as that.
Why did Xiangliu scold her for not being able to keep her heart? That was so much meaning in that line and how he could barely keep his jealousy and frustration. Xiangliu could feel all the heartache she was suffering which was also why he never really seriously contended for Xiaoyao. Actually the couple bug was bad for Xiangliu. If he actually had room to wonder, perhaps he could have dared to give it a shot?

For many of us, Xiaoyao was having a headache and fighting herself because Jing was already married to someone else. Tushan Jing is not Ye Shiqi. She had no hesitation about marrying Ye Shiqi yet why do people think that at the same time, she was also ready to spend her life with Xiangliu? Is Xiaoyao that kind of person? I think at the very least for those who suggest Xiaoyao is toxic, she had never led Xiangliu on or treated him like her 'spare tire'. She friend zoned him early on and kept it that way.

I still ask: why didn't Xiangliu just ask her "Would you want to wander with me?" Doesn't even have to be about marriage. Just that. But he never did. He concluded after questioning her, that she wants to go to Jing, and so as many of you said, he decided to let her go to him instead of forcibly keeping her by his side.

"Even as FFB that one time he asked her run away and she said yes, but he turned everything to joke."
This part is in S1 so I won't mark this as a spoiler but that was actually Xiangliu testing her to see if she was willing to leave with him.

But if you read the novel, you would have seen Xiaoyao's 'yes' was not serious at all. She completely did not take his offer seriously.
When Xiangliu saw that, he backed down.

Her inner thoughts at the moment was not being moved or shaken, but was that FFB was fooling with her and trying to scam her and how he was still begging kisses from his maid when he was young when she was roaming the world and scamming others already.

" 防风邶哈哈笑起来，小夭笑睨了他一眼，话谁不会讲呢？我浪迹天下当骗子的时候，你说不定还在家里缠着婢女讨胭脂吃呢！
"

Actually when people tried to say Xiaoyao was ready to run away with anyone who offered her eternal companionship, that was not true at all. She was never that desperate.
When Fangfeng Bei made that offer to her, she was never ready to run away with him. She was still hung up on waiting for Jing at that time, and was actually using FFB so that the news will travel to Jing and she wanted to see how he will respond to this romantic 'threat'.

Yes nobody is expected to be perfect in LYF. That is why the story is so interesting and the characters have depth. I will wait to see how they portray S2 to see if Xiangliu's selflessness was only for his foster father because I don't really like how he treated Xiaoyao in the novel to consider his acts towards her as selfless and not mixed with self-serving.

Xiaoyao left to find Jing on her own volition.
If Xiangliu telling her that Jing hired him was considered 'helping', I guess I can give him that.
But I also took note that Xiangliu had taken a whole month to tell her that information as well.
To me, maybe he wanted to see if she will ask him to leave with her for good.

That desperate questioning, asking her twice for the answer which would have been more direct if he just thrown his own name in there? "Are you willing to leave with Xiangliu? "
But when he saw how fast she was ready to leave him to go look for Jing, I think he really gave up from that point.

When she refused to be his second wife, she meant it as while he was still married to Fangfeng Yiying. Even if he was married in name to Yiying, and only treated her as his wife, she did not want this kind of relationship. You could say she was being stubborn, because what will be the difference as long as Jing only treat her as his wife? But the author wrote her that way. Plus at the time, I feel her love for Jing was not quite 'there' yet. I would say she didn't love him as much as he loved her at that point of time. She had thought she could live without him.

But after Jing was officially a 'widower', she had no issues being married to him because she was never one to care about what other people thought. What was important was she knew the truth about his relationship with fangfeng yiying. Which was why after she found out that he had been set up, she was ready to snatch him back.

"It's like Xiaoyao's parents she married a man for benefits then when he didn't help her brother this justify her betrayal and sleeping and having a kid with other man. As long as the husband is evil he should be cuckolded."
I have not read Broken Promise myself yet but from what I understood, Heng was actually with the man first before she was made to marry another man. So it was not like she had relations after she was married.

Anyway these are stories that are morally grey and everyone is struggling with imperfections. If you are so offended by the novels and the different love stories then perhaps another story might please you better?

What do you mean though, that part was accurate to the novel.

Xiangliu asked if she will marry Ye Shiqi. Then he asked her who she wanted to live her life with. If he was truly brave, he should ask her, are you willing to marry Fangfeng Bei/ Xiangliu? But he was still not brave enough to ask that question directly. What was stopping him then?

In the novel, they were actually hiding for a month. That month to me was Xiangliu's way to see what Xiaoyao wanted to do. If she said she wanted to leave, maybe he will leave with her. But since she would rather run off to Jing at the first mention of him, her choice was obvious to him then.

I don't agree that Xiangliu is all that selfless and your evidence are words I have seen repeated lots of times elsewhere. The problem and tragic truth with Xiangliu was, he could not keep his relationship with Xiaoyao untainted by mutual gain. To her, everything with him was a transaction.

Did Xiangliu fully 'gave up' on Xiaoyao the moment he found out she was the princess? Its true at that moment, he did become angry and disappointed enough to want to kill her right there, as shown both in novel and drama. In the novel, it was written that 'Xiaoyao didn't know she was so close to death.'.

His subsequent actions to sabotage her relationship by making Jing misunderstand that he and Xiaoyao are 'close' didn't seem to be in her best interests to me, if he was so noble and ready to make sure she is going to be happy with Jing. I remember how he teased Xiaoyao, to almost tell her that Hou is cheating with his sister, but he held himself back on purpose and didn't tell her in the end either. If he was so big-hearted to help Xiaoyao succeed in her love, why didn't he just come outright to say it? I feel that deep down, Xiangliu also hoped he still have a chance with her.

Xiangliu taught her archery as Fangfeng Bei so she could protect herself but he also enjoyed spending time with her in exchange. He was tempted to ask her to leave with him, but she never took him seriously at the time. He also used that proximity for his own cover to remain near to royalty and steal stuff for Chenrong army when he needs to.

The blood transfusion he gave her to save her life was out of affection. But he also got a great deal from Cangxuan for saving her too. He also took longer than he needed to, because he was not sure if Xiaoyao's life was enough for Cangxuan so he bet Jing's life into it as well. Which was why he asked Xiaoyao if she would hate him if Jing died.

EDIT [ Even when he took the business deal to sell Xiaoyao's promise to him for his army, he did it in the most cruel way which completely destroyed her reputation. In the novel Xiaoyao noted that a woman who cared even a little about her reputation would have killed herself. However I give it to Xiangliu that he understood Xiaoyao was not someone who would kill herself over such matters. I suppose in his way, he wanted to make sure Xiaoyao had no way to change her mind again after calling it off.]

Honestly I am not moved because Xiangliu 'pushed' his love like a goods to another 'for their sake' or happiness. In fact this kind of thinking is rather negative. Xiaoyao is not his to give away. Did he even have her in the first place? I think that thinking is too superficial. Saying that would mean Xiaoyao never made her choices and decisions on her own, but was manipulated into it by Xiangliu the great puppeteer?

As for why he erased all traces of himself, I feel that once again it was his own way to decide how to be forgotten. It was his demon's pride. If he was going to be forgotten by Xiaoyao in the next few hundreds of years, like how she vaguely remembered playing with the snake demon in her youth, this hundred years of friendship with another snake demon. He rather make sure she can't remember him at all. That was my take on why he decided to erase everything about himself.

He still hurt her in the end because he refused to acknowledge their friendship. He was not enough for Xiaoyao to give up living after his death, so it was actually selfish of him to even deny her of knowing she did have a friendship with him, instead of thinking she had been a stupid person who was made use by him for the hundred years they have known each other?

LOOOL now that is a strategic pause... you still have 14 days maybe you should watch that last 3 eps on July 7 instead

Its quite funny how the expectation of moral behavior ranges from the different viewers. Someone actually thought eloping was a solution. In fact this 'solution' of cooking the rice first was indeed an 'easy way out' for alot of other dramas. But Tonghua didn't want this. She only wanted Xiaoyao to get the best.

So from what I understand, to you, Jing should completely break his engagement off first before he courts Xiaoyao? But they already started their relationship in Qingshui town, before he was forced to go home.
Also in the novel, he actually really had not much contact with Xiaoyao while he was working hard at it, which was what made her so angry with him. So are you saying Xiaoyao was the one who forced him to continue his courtship instead of putting it on pause?
I am here for a love story against all odds, so yes to me if they don't sleep together, their courtship is ok with me. The engagement is only a business contract between clans for mutual benefits. Why should life be on hold just for that?

Tushan Jing did not love Fangfeng Yiying, Xiaoyao was not a third party who broke them up. There is no emotional affair or adultery of any kind as far as I am concerned.
So I'm afraid I don't really see what is offending you so badly.

I enjoyed reading your analysis and it is something that the author also explores.. If it was laid out so black and white, there won't be all these discussions and deep thinking about the story.
However I disagree with your question about why Xiaoyao could not elope with Jing.

Xiaoyao was not a selfish person, she wanted Jing to place her first but when it came down to it, she never wanted to force him to give up his world for her.
"If she truly desires him, why can't she answer the question?"
At this particular point of your questioning, she had no idea that Jing's son was not his, or that Fangfeng Yiying was really so evil and had actually committed adultery with Hou to trap Jing.

I think most people cannot seem to understand why it was so difficult to cancel that engagement, because in most dramas, we just see the leads running away into the sunset, but eloping would damage not only Xiaoyao's reputation and Jing did not want that. Both of them still thought there was a chance for a better solution, until it all became too late.

As for her headache when Xiangliu phrased his question to her, I interpreted it as Xiaoyao could marry Ye Shiqi but she cannot bring herself to say she want to be with Jing because at that moment, he was still married to someone else and a father to a young child. As someone who was abandoned, she was too kind to deprive a child of his father by making him run away with her? In the drama, they have made Xiaoyao mention the difference to herself when she said during her coma "How can the Tushan Chief be Ye Shiqi?"

Why I felt that her reply was going to be Jing, was also because of the desperation in Xiangliu's voice ( kudos to tjc) when I watched the S2 Trailer. To me, that was his last hope that she might say his name, because if she did, maybe he really would consider leaving it all behind with her.
But Xiangliu was unable to be the one to take that first step, to give up his world with Hong jiang and Chenrong army, just to have a chance to see if she will accept him or not.

As for Xiaoyao, she had always only remembered Xiangliu when she was lonely or heartbroken and needed company. For that, I feel bad for him and his unrequited love.
She had never looked at his 'video' again after she returned from her coma, nor did she look at it again after she got Jing back. Sadly, I think Xiangliu is aware of that too. I can't help thinking if he actually thought he had a chance with her, he might really be tempted to wander the world with her.

But Xiangliu is a proud demon in the end, and he wanted to end their 'friend but not a friend' relationship on his own terms. I don't see it as a selfless move, but actually a selfish move because he made the decision for Xiaoyao and I really hate that kind of 'noble idiocy' trope. Xiaoyao should be the one who gets to decide if she wanted to remember this friend or not. For Xiangliu it was all or nothing. I can understand it, but I don't like it. In fact, that epilogue which showed him making that figurine, symbolized his thoughts... he used eternal fire to cancel out eternal cold, and in the end one is left with a neutral item. I am still wondering why he did that. He returned Xiaoyao's farewell gift to her, but didn't let her know he returned it. Its how he wants to end their friendship. You can't say it didn't exist, but he made it look like it didn't exist.

Actually, the drama content had all been created by the time S1 aired. So there really is nothing much they can do regarding new poster except reusing the images from the previous shoots and also the new episodic character poster stills that has not been released yet. They have no additional budget to get everyone back just to create new posters and marketing materials for a half series.

From what I understand, this drama was meant to be aired in full, before the new rule kicked in that no drama was supposed to be longer than 40 episodes. It was never their intention to split it into two seasons.

Can I just say I love your nickname but not the drama adaptation haha
That novel was beautiful and they managed to make it insufferable.

You are a lucky one lol

Have to manage expectations.
Rumors have it there will be a 3 ep drop and subsequent 1 ep a day.
Not sure if they will have a break in the days but really hope not.
Only 21 eps they will most likely try to stretch it as long as they can, but it won't end up airing during the Olympics because that is ratings killer. So in theory it should end by July 26.

Your words are a little confusing. First you said you can't understand why people cannot accept Jing being married. And then you basically accused him and Xiaoyao of 'pure adultery'?
First their courtship during his engagement which he fully intended to call off, if not for unforeseen circumstances in the story.

Tushan Hou and Yiying had sexual relations during her engagement.

After marriage Jing and Xiaoyao were no longer in contact.

Later in S2, after certain truth came to light, they were back in contact, but certainly not 'flirting' with each other as you are suggesting? How is this even the same thing?

I have put my other reply under spoiler but this part I can reply in the open.

I too have found that the concept of 'living and dying together' a rather antiquated idea since modern days most of us live for ourselves and cannot comprehend or encourage this mindset. However this is literature and drama, obviously the author wanted to make love more grand or epic than it is for the most of us in real life.

In real life, its unthinkable that a spouse should be expected to stop living their lives or die of grief just to 'prove' they really loved the other. If we know someone who is suffering, we will obviously encourage life.

However in some cases, there are people who really do pass away due to heartbreak. Its called Broken heart syndrome.
Are we going to fault these people for being 'weak'? Just because we don't experience that, I don't think we should judge them for what they go through. Who are we to determine what is the right or wrong response?

I don't think Xiaoyao lost much if you mean with Xiangliu. Would he be able to overcome his love and loyalty for his foster father by taking the first step towards Xiaoyao? With him, she was never fully at ease and like with Cangxuan, she often had to pacify them with flattery or action. I don't really consider living a life constantly grovelling to another to be bliss.

Xiangliu lived his life not intending to fall for anyone, and he ended his life without choosing romantic love. But I won't say he had no character growth.

S1 we don't see Xiaoyao breaking out of her dependant attitude towards life as you have pointed out, but isn't it too soon to declare she had no growth at all just because you know she will get what she wants in the end? If Xiaoyao had accepted Cangxuan's company, just so that she won't end up being alone in life, now that is what I would consider wallowing in her need to not be alone. In the end, she broke her condition that 'as long as someone can offer me eternal company, I will choose him'. Because she rejected Cangxuan.

Also you said she chose companionship again in the end, but she lost it before. She actually tasted the pain of losing that companionship. But she still dared to take it up again. That is courage to me. There is no certainty in life, and who is to say she won't lose her love once again, but Xiaoyao still chose love. She could have said, "no I tasted loss before so no thanks, never again". Unless that is the kind of 'growth' you are talking about here. She should turn down love and say, I can live very well by myself, I don't need another person to share my life with.

She was willing to live out the rest of her lifespan of thousands of years alone on Mount Jade, so that she won't have to forget the pain of her love, I should think that is considered maturity and growth.

Since you referred to the novel, I assume you finished reading it. Surprised that was the conclusion you have come to then.

Cangxuan had been Xiaoyao's number one, because he was her only 'relative' left and they made a promise or swore an oath to their elders to take care of each other.
But I don't think Xiaoyao was romantically attracted to Cangxuan.
The story did focus on familiar love, romantic love and friendship. She can live and die for family, that loyalty for her outweighs romance.

I did find Xiaoyao being rather ambiguous in her actions with him so I can't fully blame him for secretly wanting more. I don't know about others, but I have never put my head on the shoulders of my cousin, ever. hahahah