starlit-dramas

I'm glad I grew up in a generation where we get to critically engage with feminist themes in stories like this, and see fictional characters (as well as real life people), as more than "cheating hoes" or "scum", regardless of gender. I think we both hope to live in a better world, but I for one very much hope I don't grow up to be as embittered and closed-minded as some of my predecessors. That's not my idea of progress.

I do honestly think a lot of the ways the people talk about this drama fall directly in line with the misogyny depicted in the drama; I think there's some moral complexity (like there is in any good storytelling), but I don't think she cheated. I think she was stripped of agency and choice. I completely agree with you.

I think it's a shame it wasn't a more interesting conversation, in part because it was divided into "lovers" and "haters" of a story, when I feel like a much more thought-provoking, nuanced discussion could've been had. For my part, I feel like I tried, but it was on me for not recognising from the start you wouldn't be open to that. My bad.

I'm more stepping away because this conversation's going absolutely nowhere, but I'm glad we're ending with you having a generous perspective on what I'm saying this time. 💜 Good day.

Okay. 💀

That's not what I meant, and I'm sure you know that, but you can choose to see it however you want.

Yeahhhh, I know. I'll probably step away now. I'm tired going around in circles, and I probably shouldn't have started at all. It's just frustrating when I see the complete lack of empathy and I know of real life situations like this. ://

I don't see this drama as having cheating in it. The only reason I think it's considered cheating is because the man she's with won't "let" her break up with him because she's a woman. I don't think the influence of patriarchy can be separated from this drama, and I think it's because of misogyny you see it that way at all.

Yeah, exactly! Honestly, I think there's an element of moral complexity in this drama, but I don't think there was a better way it could've happened considering she did try to break up with him. I think there's a huge misogynistic double standard to how she's seen as the villain in this (even your language of her – a "cheating hoe", and how his behaviour is normalised to the point of it not even being considered an issue. I feel like that has more implications as for how we treat women in the real world. Meanwhile, though I can see why Naksu turned out the way that she did, I do still think there's an actual argument for her being more of an anti-hero / villain – she's arguably even more morally complex, but I think it's also a fun fantasy romp, much like you said, and I think her issues are less intertwined with misogyny (though similar themes of manipulation and coercion). I think we think of this very differently.

Yeah, I guess I'm just more used to rooting for complex characters who undergo a lot of character progression, like Naksu in Alchemy Of Souls.

When did I ever say she was good?

I only mentioned the parallel at the end of a list of my evidence for a reason. She does try to break up with him, multiple times, and he doesn't let her, because he doesn't believe she, as a woman, should have a choice.

If it's justifiable to you for a rapist to be murdered (making it about what the person murdered did), then why can't the same be said for having feelings for somebody else (making it about what the person cheated on did)?

Lol, on "waiting a few days if she were actually traumatised". Anything you say, Resident Internet Chief On Proper Responses To Trauma. I think you have a right to your opinion, but I think I have the right as well to find your opinion absolutely ridiculous.

How do you know she wasn't being abused? She told somebody at one point that he would always pick fights with her, then make a grand show of making it up to her (emotional abuse and lovebombing) – when she tried to break up with him (to make it not cheating), he wouldn't let her, and instead stalked her, threatening her father's job through his connections. Her father was an abusive personality too, and he kept her trapped in the relationship. Three is a diect parallel drawn between him and a physically abusive rapist. If none of this reads at remotely abusive to you, then I wonder what your normal is.

I never said I agreed they were cheating though. Just developing feelings for somebody else doesn't count as cheating to me, and I think it is understandable to develop feelings outside of the relationship when it comes to abuse and mistreatment. I agree that murder has complexity, and I think cheating does too. I agree rape is unforgivable, and I think One Spring Night is one of the rare dramas I've seen that depicts that in full honesty. I think it'd be a shame to write off a drama like Alchemy Of Souls for the murder when it's clear to us both that there's so much more to it, and I think it's similarly a shame to write off this drama because you've reduced it to a drama about a "cheating hoe", but I think that's more on you than anything the drama is trying to portray. It's your decision.

Is murder?

Right now, you've got an assassin character who stole the body of somebody else without thinking about it twice in the first episode in your profile picture; no hate to either character, as I love both dearly, but imo I think that's a bit worse morally speaking than catching feelings for somebody else when pressured into in a relationship with a misogynistic emotional manipulator.

I get it if it's a dealbreaker, but I think there's a little room for complexity here, and I don't think the drama or recommendation is at fault if there's a part of the audience unable or unwilling to read into it.

Watching this with my parents, and my mother said, right in the middle of this episode "This is my happiness." I think she summed it up perfectly. 🥺🥺🥺 I know there's still angst to come, and I'm holding all my fingers crossed that it's done well, and that it continues in this spirit; but for right now, this drama is my happiness.

I will say, I also think it's interesting that people will look and see a FL who's trying to get out of a relationship, but being denied, stalked, and having her family's situation put into jeopardy over it, and yet still see her as the more morally deficient of the two over catching feelings for somebody else.

The REAL big bad to me in this story is patriarchy and entitlement, the secondary antagonists being the characters who rape, abuse, and stalk who have been raised like infectious bacteria in a culture that doesn't care what a woman wants from her life, just so long as she stays in line, obeys her father or male partner and shuts up.

It's kind of amazing to see the binary thinking in these comments; seeing everything in terms of what's morally black and white. To me, there's such a hugeeee problem in media literacy if anybody's seeing this as a story that's supposed to lead by moral example over portraying characters with realistically messy and complicated human relationships with each other.

More spoilery thoughts below.

I'M SO EXCITED!!! 🥳🥳🥳