swagata

Not sure about sequel. Because i remember the transaction i follow was of negative translations and he/she stopped translating after 3rd volume. So i haven't and was not able to find later volumes and sequel in English translation. If u have can u share me link.

And one thing i understood about lan lin that i am never going to read or watch her works. She has capability of making my mental health ruin. Till this date i am just stuck at DH emotionally can't focus on any other drama despite trying. The main thing this journey gave to audience is complete roller coaster ride. A story which is actually story no matter what writing. But it had capability to keep it's viewers watch the series till the end and not drop it whether u like it or not like it. This series questions u and society and the gives the consequences after each wrong. Even happy ending is not possible in true sense no matter what u do. And I like it here. As u said after all these toxicity it makes sense to left ending feeling bittersweet to give msg that no one can leave soul can't be scarred after all these. And that both book and drama don't promote toxicity

For responsibility now that i think about it deeply I guess yichen is also suffering of his wrong decision and his toxicity by dealing with lufeng bipolar disorder. Because of he hadn't abandoned lufeng again and again that disease was never going to became that bad. But again that is the tragedy for both of them.

My issue remains same. Lufeng was toxic like hell. Show showed, book showed, movie showed, we as audience understood. But yichen's toxicity was hidden. Lot of people don't understand that how toxic his behaviour was. Him not putting efforts and fighting for relationship was soo toxic. Not in level of lufeng but it was. And not talking about that and hiding it under the mask of filial responsibility and sacrifices is not justified.

That one line was so touching. I remember when I read book. I was like yichen don't u ever go back to lufeng after this. But when he took bullet and he was saying " i should hate u. But what is this feeling deeper than hate",i guess it's better for us to stop here". And after yichen coming out of coma the first word he said is " lu..feng, lu...feng" and throughout their time I just loved little details. How yichen was managing shop and how lufeng used to wait outside in the car. They didn't shared much Convo. Just them talking formally. The way he used to just drop him home and walk on alley. Although lufeng wanted to start afresh. Yichen was too much in his cocoon that I will be just taking money and not having convo. That cool off phase was soo imp. The way lufeng used to go to his house full of water and he just keep yichen who is still recovering and weak in bed and he clear the water...the care he showed later. How about little things lufeng was wanting more and still he knew he need to maintain distance i liked that maturity but the cost of that maturity was high which used to make my mouth sour. (Was expected) And how during yichen's going to his brother in the car he realised that the deeper feeling which he was finding ans what was that is nothing but love. He knew he should not love him after all these but he still love him. I just hate how in drama they toned down yichen's pov of feelings.

Everything was ok. But i can't forgive DH makers to not include yichen's pov just like book that how he used to feel towards lufeng. He wanted him to initiate intimacy but it was not happening and the way in the car he chose to initiate by trying to touch his hand and hold it was intentionally not reciprocated by lufeng. And then he was sad. That how lufeng everyday used to wait below yichen's home till light went off and never come. When yichen wanted that. That thing was imp because it clearly gave reader knowledge that yichen actually is wanting from all his heart to accept lufeng and his love with intimacy.

In drama they actually cut down lot of yichen's part. Which led to audience believe that yichen is suffering from trauma bonding or stockholm syndrome but in fact he was always wanting to be with him deep down. That's why after 20 years separation he always used to think " what even I am thinking that he will still love me and forgive me".

Yichen's pov was compromised here. But i think it's kind of good also because in novel we know less of lufeng. Show make up for it. Another thing is that show makers wanted to give their so called Happy ending because of that they need to tone down lufeng and intentionally make him forgivable later( except SA) so that we know how he was also suffering. Just yichen's pov should have been added more.

I guess u are going very harsh here. I respect you and ur love for show. I have seen ur comments since the beginning of this show and u are still here means u genuinely love the show. It has to has some element right for someone to get this addicted?

But very respectfully, people can have very different opinions and they can still not like this drama. I started this drama when it was airing and tbh for me after they land into army camp. Somethings just didn't worked for me. Mine was actually genuine ques that although FL was trained by her father. How can she just outwit big generals and how she can defeat the main person in battle without getting injured seriously. See in my logic, war tactics are cruel. They actually had disadvantage they were stuck at valley with less food. Ur army morale is going down. Plus FL had never seen war. City massacre was little of what she saw but war is massive. U never know how and when someone just attack u. And this is imp for me because there was multiple mentions from her shifu that she can now lead the army. It just doesn't work that way. Leading army is not just about physical strength. It requires master planning, understanding geography and climate and provisions, how much men is there and leadership qualities plus lots and lots of training. And she is going to become general later after war experiences so this is imp. But i can still think ok this is drama let's leave that detail and just enjoy.

Second thing that didn't worked for me was politics. Agree or not agree. Till 27 ep i still didn't had any clue who is this enemy and what kind of person he is. History between them and the SML connection. I get it it's a drama and things will unfold slowly but i heard( because i dropped before that in ep27) that politics will come from 34-35 ep anyways (30+ ep) for a 40 ep drama i feel that's a misbalance in political aspect when u are exploring politics and provision case truth since ep1.

Since I haven't completed the drama I will not comment on the parts i haven't watched. But that was my decision to drop this drama and later start continue because maybe i might not been in correct energy to recieve this drama. But as an viewer if i am not feeling connected with story or finding some flaws then i should have right to say right? I have the right to like or dislike. It doesn't mean i am saying this drama is bad or the ones who loved it they only loved because of beautiful cinematography. But agree or not agree there are certain people who watched this drama because of cinematography. Because agree or not agree some people did watched this drama because of zhang linghe handsomeness. Because agree or not agree people were more mesmerized by romance and not politics because it's a truth that politics was handled very late in the drama. If someone is just saying their opinion i don't think they need to be called out. They have their own preference and own taste. Afterall liking a drama is a subjective matter and we all need to be open towards other people. Because it's their place also to share and exchange opinion. Because believe it or not when one see MDL rating of 9 they expect perfect writing. With almost no to minimal flaw. Or are we here saying this drama is superior than "the untamed" , " joy of life" , " scarlet heart", "TTEOTM". If according to them this drama doesn't deserve 9.1 rating then it's their pov right? MDL already has seen the verdict of 9.1 so it has people's love. They are just understanding why? Why despite then trying to give their all they still can't like it. And tbh their ques is also valid right? We often ques that what is that i am not able to feel connected with this story but others can. So it's not wrong. But always defending and whoever don't like without understanding their pov it's wrong to just give harsh replies.

I hope u understand that I am still respecting u and ur liking towards this show and people who loved this. But what i am saying is to equally understand that some just can't like because of their own reasons which is also valid. Otherwise no harsh feelings towards anyone or show.

For the first point. I am not going to talk about this. I have a very strong opinion about alcohol. Lufeng being drugged and engaged in prostitution was consensual sex. Just that timing was wrong. He was pursuing yichen seriously so it makes sense of yichen's stand and I also felt that way but I don't blame him.

In novel, where yichen was raping his son's bf. I don't care. Who what why. I hate lufeng. I hate yichen. Simple. Rape is rape. I understand yichen's position that he truly wanted to control himself but he did raped. Lufeng involved an innocent person. Both are wrong. I don't blame yichen to get drugged by lufeng but I hate him there. Simple. This impacted me so much that I hate yichen till the last for this. This was the very incident I just hate in novel apart from other things. But i thank people of DH makers to not include this scene as it actually helped me to forgive little bit of lufeng and yichen seeing as victim.

In drama, both yichen and lufeng was loyal to each other. But still always makers has to show lufeng in bad light because it's there in source material.

In novel, it was clear that he got indulged in sex with qin lang. Lufeng we don't know as novel's first person is yichen like u said. I can't rely on that. Because this scene connects directly with drama lufeng where both lufeng and yichen just provoking each other and telling lies. I still don't blame both lufeng and yichen in their separation time afterall 4 years is a long time. One can try to move on or indulge with diff people when they are not dating and future about relationship is uncertain.

I think the office provoke part just exist so that lufeng after knowing all these just leave him. But it went opposite.

Interesting because even if yichen didn't slept with qin lang in drama. He was genuinely trying to move on and the fact that he felt played and lost self esteem was no less than what he experienced in novel. Because more than physical intimacy, emotional intimacy matters to me. But in drama even that was not there so it makes sense for yichen to not loose complete trust in his brother. But his brother felt and acted the same like in novel. Always blaming lufeng. Now, later he did took advice from his brother. But it came with additions also like supporting yichen during lufeng therapy and house buy which was not there in book. In novel, i see its just gone. After ur explanation.

Now the point of yichen asking for leaving lufeng firmly after mention of ke luo was consistent both in drama and novel. I also felt that. Just drama reduced intensity. And this is my problem with DH drama, drama never shows how exactly yichen is feeling. How he still love lufeng and how much deep inside he also want lufeng to recognise and love him. Which was mentioned clearly in book. But in drama there is one song which plays in bg when lufeng was bringing people at home just to show him " mei you ni" i guess the translation of the song that i followed says " i don't find u here. U are not here. I promise u, I promise u that in next life I will find you and we will be together never to be apart for which we are too broken in this life" that depicts yichen's stance for me. I loved that song. Ke luo actually hurt him. I think ke luo was imp in realising that yichen still wants romantic companionship with lufeng because of his jealousy. He was still ok with people coming to lufeng in his house( impact his self esteem and body inferiority complex) but lufeng giving emotional imp and care to ke luo was harsh on him. He was just not able to see lufeng showing romantic gesture( in yichen's pov) to ke luo. That's why the only hope that maybe maybe lufeng still loved him was lost and he said I can't take it anymore just let me go. Plus he was also tired of the emotional torture from lufeng. Drama toned it down a lot thank God.
But lufeng in novel omg the things made yichen suffered i just felt yichen u better get out and never see him.i hate lufeng there. He was doing things that can break a person's soul. Getting intimate in front of his own son and sending rape clips to his son yuck. Inhumane. Just inhumane.

My issue is not lufeng taking responsibility or accountability. My issue is biasedness. Relationship only works when both party make equal efforts. If lufeng was wrong and should held responsible for his unintentional yichen's brother push and yichen's mother death. Then yichen should also get questioned for his cowardness impact. He never tried to even explain his mother and talk to his mother that he still is in love with lufeng and wanted to keep his relationship hidden with his mother. During confrontation lufeng was no where wrong to take his stand. Both never knew yichen mother health condition. Yichen himself didn't knew. He never told or tried to correct his mother that he can't get marry to someone as he is in his mother language still abnormal. He never decline Zhou lan that he already has someone whom he likes. Never said in college reunion that lufeng is his other half. And not friend. Was it easy for lufeng? No. He also lived in the same era. And he also lived in homophobic society and parents. If yichen had parents love, lufeng has his sister and his father's inheritance. He was born rich and he valued money. If yichen had it hard then lufeng also. So blaming only lufeng and not yichen when both made wrong decisions. If Lufeng's house capture was intentional then yichen wasn't a kid. His method of using marriage to escape was also intentional and it hurted lufeng directly. Blaming one only for their decision I don't understand when both are at fault. And my frustration just rise here because this whole comment section is filled with that plus reviews. It just idk make me feel..........

Idk everytime I just see someone saying victim- perpetrator only and that happy ending part. I dont know how to feel. Am I over analysing it? Because in drama i genuinely never felt a happy ending? And in novel also?

My problem is that I felt just too much for this drama. Either positively or negatively idk.

Fact- this is long like short story. So read accordingly.

Let's discuss in points.

1. About yichen not showing consistency in his familial devotion:- when lufeng and yichen were in love in school days he genuinely thought if he explain this to his family they will understand it as he is their son. They will prioritise his happiness so he fought hard trying to explain that how he is normal and their love is also love. What he didn't expected that his parents will be homophobic to the core and prioritise the societal set standards of relationship. So after first separation he gave in. For in Asia, it is said one is a good child if that child is obedient and follow their parents and keep them happy ( not to add the source material i e. Novel was written in early 2000s ig where this concept was more firm) so what yichen did? He closed off himself. He sacrificed his own individuality and sex orientation and fighting spirit to please his family. Because when he did that he can keep others happy and remember lufeng was not there. He was all alone to face the society and the aftermath of expose of their relationship in his college. While lufeng was in US so he didn't even had to face any of these and yichen's emotional partner was not there so for whom he should have fought? Then when he gets into relationship with lufeng after lufeng coming back from US. I was screaming like hell on screen to yichen that this person don't and can't take stand. Why can't he slowly try to explain his stance of love and how he is also normal to his mother slowly by giving hints. But i don't blame him. I also understand him and his position. He understood that whenever his fighting will never change the core beliefs of his mother so he never addressed it. ( I hate here yichen the most atleast try) But u see his mother was constantly saying how he is back to normal and he can now marry a girl and have a child. Did someone asked yichen how he felt? Familial devotion has to be felt from both sides. Which was lacking from his mother side. Also from whole confrontation of lufeng and yichen's mother it was clear to me that yichen is never going to fight for his relationship and just give in to his mother's expectations without any words. Because typical asian parents and society thought "obey parents" , " respect parents", " can't go against them or disagree with them" for which u are supposed to clear the investments parents made in order to raise u. Make sacrifices for them. So it was clear how devoted son he was and lufeng was no where in his priority list even later than qin lang. But he was hurting soo bad i am telling u. He was imagining lufeng in his wedding that how happy he would be if he married him and he actually cut off contact with lufeng because he hurted his brother. No brother will ever want his own little brother to get hurt intentionally or unintentionally by his own bf adding to the fact that confrontation with his mother landed her to hospital ( indirectly not completely lufeng fault, she was already sick to begin with the Convo just triggered it)

Whereas u don't find this inconsistency and dilemma in RL because WSW mother was sweet, she already acknowledged chi cheng as her son- in-law or WSW's other half and she prioritised his son's happiness so his familial duties were never in ques.

2. About "To my shore" the fact is that Fan xiao was a traumatised person. He has dealt with trauma that shaped him and his values and how he sees world. Now, why these were discussed in detail in TMS because fan xiao and you shulang relationship was built on that foundation. Fan xiao was approaching you shulang just to prove that how he sees the world is true and testing you shulang about his views about the same situation and that exactly is why Fan xiao started loving you shulang in between. Eg- the scene where both were seeing sea by sitting in beach. Fan xiao told his you shulang his trauma because he wanted to gain his sympathy so that he can be close to him. And to comfort him you shulang said he also experienced something similar and how he reacted. Fan xiao started believing he is truly a good person. Those discussion was the entire thing because of which their romance developed. Both fan xiao and you shulang were in multiple relationships before so they were aware of relationship values and how it works.

In DH, both yichen and lufeng was experiencing first love. Puppy love. They were teenagers where they were in pure fierce and ready to give each other everything mode. Afterall first love. Now addressing your point here. Yichen was actually grown up in good and loving family later he experienced homophobia but before that everything was good. Lufeng was experiencing his abusive father. But did that changed lufeng? To the point of trauma? No. That's why I just love lufeng. The school lufeng. Because he had every reason to be a bad and traumatic person. He was rich, powerful but experiencing abusive parents and his sister's love language was to show care by facts and logic. He never knew how love can be beautiful, warm and caring before yichen. I was in love with lufeng here that despite these he was able to smile, capable of love, approach yichen with love and care and childish behaviour of teasing him just to get attention of his xiao chen. Pure naive person behaviour. Those moments were superficial but powerful to them. It was surely not enough to connect with audience. As nothing grand was happening there because there was nothing traumatic, mature there. Also one thing if u remember, yichen was constantly thinking of lufeng roller skating moments with him, how he approach him with care, piggyback and feeding him food during his injury. Those moments mattered to yichen. Also i remember in later episode yichen also remembered how lufeng was protecting him by submerging him in his chest while everyone in school was piting them on their abnormal love. Lufeng was protecting him. Also, one time after school someone tried to assualt yichen and lufeng just kinda murdered him. He was protecting him from world. Saying " i love u and whoever is there to oppose us i will fight with them and protect u". For a teenager if someone give me that 1percent of protector energy I will loose my heart. Because tbh it's rare for someone to fight for u. It's subjective whether u were able to connect with their love or not but I was able to. Ur connection with their story is ur feelings i respect that. I am just saying what I feel. If u understand my pov that's ok. Also understanding each other pov doesn't mean to agree. So here no issue if u can't feel connection.

3. True. But I will make a point here u are comparing TMS where the scene u are talking about is the whole point of fan xiao obsession to destroy you shulang. It did show you shulang as an individual. But it also contributed to the fan xiao romance with him. Here, in DH as I said for lufeng it was just love at first sight. And for yichen his care and quality time and protector energy. Now, lufeng personality did shined just in romantic way. Because lufeng's whole life is based on yichen as his one and only emotional and life anchor. As for him he truly didn't had anything emotional to hold on in his life before yichen. He was just rich and powerful and values money. Which was shown in drama when he can't take no ( rich people can't take) and when he has to give his inheritance( he automatically started working more to raise his empire of own during yichen's togetherness and separation) and when he met yichen after marriage he asked yichen " why did u not talked to me? If my giving up inheritance bothered u" " tbh I would have also felt like u because i literally had nothing" those were his exact words that said how much he valued money and inheritance but he gave up everything for yichen. From yichen's side his nerdy nature was there and shown. Nothing much from yichen's side as an individual because he was from well loved family and healed person. He can openly accept love and give love during his teenage school days. Lufeng had something to put forward in this aspect( his trauma and how it affected him) but the very fact that even after these he was able to give his sunshine energy, understand and love and hold on to his love soo hard that later it became like a python around ur neck. But to be able to love without any boundaries was his personality.

I hope i am clear that these are my pov and u are not bound to accept or agree that. I just shared what i felt and explained my stance to ur point.

This is long. Please read accordingly.

Logic part I will not say anything. But sequence of events and their choices whether right or wrong diff thing. But it made sense to me. That on what basis they are taking decisions.

Romantic and Individualistic development is subjective but here now that I think deeply about it. I think on individual level lufeng going through therapy and restraining his madness was an attempt on that part.

About character part. Show did showed it just very vaguely( as in not a central point) like:-
Yichen - he was school topper, college days good at studying but aloof, a person who tries new adventures earlier in school days ( roller skating) , actively participated in challenges( school days scene of wrong calculation of marks and him loosing bet if top 50 and lufeng got the prize of that device( don't remember device name) ) ,
Lufeng- rich, powerful, can't take no 😑, feels deeply, ready to fight for things that mattered to him, holding his ground.

Values we all know yichen values familial peity.

In ep1-2 i don't remember but lufeng came to yichen's house and they discussed their childhood. Yichen was so proactively discussing about his remote control games, how he was so handsome in childhood that people in their society called it out. How he was a nerd ( reading book before bed, going to libraries, diligent in his studies and helping lufeng in studies, yichen was a helpful person). He used to accompany his little brother whenever he plays guitar although absent in mind.
I remember lufeng said yichen to travel with him. I see travelling as individual preference also.

Likes/dislikes- orange juice. Sunflower for yichen and for lufeng just one homemade food from a person who actually cares.

What they like about each other....idk. In drama they never said it explicitly. But i think sometimes just spending time together and enjoying each other's presence over time can lead to develop feelings( not necessarily but can happen. Otherwise u like a someone a lot as a person/ individual but still can't love them) plus one note during school days yichen used to see lufeng being teasing him then friends then lovers. Whereas for lufeng it was curiosity at first voice/ attitude in reply and love at first sight which over time became deep to the point of obsession.
Note- i genuinely understand u on this how and what they like about each other part. Because story later just deals with suffering and going back and holding on to love despite all the bas things and toxic things happened between them. Because one actually will think what is that is keeping them to go back despite all these. Just why they fell in love soo hard to make choices like this.

Also i completely understand u. Most of these things are said to audience as a part to contribute to their romantic story and their evolvement in romance and relationship. That's why it gets often mixed or unnoticed. Plus this story deals heavily with dark romance so it's understandable that they pay more attention to their romance or introduce all these concepts very vaguely or loosely. It's there not much but not absent.

But i get u, u just don't feel connected with characters on individual level that much. I do agree that there is some fault in writing and adaption. Like that mental sickness was handled poorly although an attempt to fix the mess and toxicity but poor handling. Perspective and subjective matter.

1. I feel the set standard is no where wrong. If u are in love and are pursuing that person u need to be loyal. Lets break prostitution part:-
a. When lufeng indulged in prostitution after coming from US. It was wrong from my pov but the circumstances was like that. He didn't wanted to he was under influence of drug/ drink. This doesn't excuse him of his actions. But i have a very strong opinion about drinks so I don't want to go there.

b. When in drama, lufeng pretend to indulge in prostitution. No problem. Just keep ur intentions clear. His intention was to hurt yichen which itself is mixed. But the act of prostitution no. It's not wrong. He was not dating anyone or pursuing anyone.
In novel, i don't want to even say. Why would I even expect someone to not fulfill his/ her desire for 20 years? Because that person loves someone who no longer is his? Who is married and divorced and who already ghosted and abandoned them. With no clarity that he will be back. Not to forget both yichen and lufeng had a child in novel.

The whole fantasy of staying loyal works only when u have clarity and u are pursuing/ dating someone or loving someone whom u are actively pursuing.

2. It did changed something. In drama, yichen and qin lang although they were using each other they were not disloyal to their partners. Now, yichen in drama never "almost forgot" lufeng. I never felt that atleast that's why in first meet when they met i felt both are lying. That's why for me when he heard qin lang and his brother words he felt like third wheel or used person kind of person who is embarrassed, felt unwanted( god such harsh feelings to feel), he gave back qin lang who was never genuine towards him to his brother. He didn't said it but he felt soo bad might be thinking "i am so laughable" so when lufeng thing happened i saw yichen afraid of heartbreak because of separation and the qin lang heartbreak then this "left" word I thought as courage.

Now in novel, the word u used "almost forgot" if that's true then idk what to feel about lufeng. Did lufeng had prostitution or anyone during his US time? I don't remember but I think no. (But if yichen really did almost forgot lufeng. That's shows two things here. First- with no certainty of lufeng coming back he was ready to give others a chance. Second- he can actually forget lufeng. He has capability to let go of him and forget him. That's something idk how to even feel. As much as it is humane it is going to play big role later. It clearly shows emotional anchor of yichen.)
This whole qin lang incident has already started to impact yichen's state of mind in how he perceive himself as an individual. A person who felt unwanted, laughing at his attempt to give chance to qin lang like mocking himself "did he really thought that he is someone whom one can love", questioning his own identity as easy to fool. (God. This is soo harsh. Yichen has gone through so much now i am realising.) When he put back ring and saw lufeng it doubled it as u said. Idk now his " left" as in left dignity was just lost. And immediately after that when yichen just wanted to resign I'm order to not face lufeng now that i am realising was not entirely because he felt hurt due to Lufeng's indulgence in intimacy with other person and fear of heartbreak came true but because he also as an person wanting to escape this feeling. The feeling of not having self worth and self respect( he think as that's how he might have felt). Harsh harsh harsh....why did writer did this to yichen? Why to throw these many harsh feelings to a character? Then add another layer of hurt from black flag no wonder these things started way before black flag era leading to yichen actually believe that he is worth nothing. I never saw this.

3. Wow this i never even understood. I could haven't. Thanks for clarifying. Because i was genuinely thinking why yichen's brother was being hated and i thought anyone would have right? If that person is ur family u definitely don't want them to get hurt so his actions of blaming in a way made sense as to why the blame was not entirely vague or empty. Just that not whole picture. And now i understand why there was mention of qin lang, brother and yichen. Looks like it was never simple.

I know this is very controversial but i think somewhere lufeng did gave yichen an assurity that he mattered to lufeng. But still ending with lufeng and not going to his brother are diff. Staying with lufeng after everything was more tough than his brother whom he never trust. I mean go back to his brother and never discuss ur problem to him. ( Ik that's not how relationship works but it seems easy than being with lufeng). Why he chose lufeng as priority than his brother? After coma incident. And after divorce incident. What i am even saying i know the why but still this is additional and new why for me.

Yichen being unreliable narrator. Don't know. But his actions of taking wrong decisions is humane. But I see hypocrisy also here. If yichen makes wrong decision it's humane and if lufeng then criminal. I get the actions lufeng took was criminal in nature. But him defending their relationship is not. Him standing firmly on his decision of leaving everything even his sister in novel is not. Him unintentionally pushed his brother is not. Lufeng also has made wrong decision and that's humane tooo. Just leave black flag part. But audience did reduced it to blaming everything to lufeng.

That's why this kind of story hits me harder. Each time u think and feel diff and it's often contradicting and complex in nature.

Need to re read again.

True. People often put what they feel in simpler way. The "why" is something that demands time. Most people use drama as entertainment and fun to get relief from hectic and chaotic daily life. That's why the "why" exploration attempt was never made.
Complete opposite of my way of approaching dramas. Nothing to do with educational bg but at one point yes I did started watching dramas just to support what i am studying. Or to understand what i am studying through stories. That helped me a lot. Not that this will ever get utilised as people ques what's the point of this knowledge? Tbh idk. I just love it what to do?

That's what sometimes things get lost in adaptation. This teenager thing I never truly felt and the weight of crying out of not being able to comprehend mixed feelings was soo sad and emotional. Never even thought this way. What i understood is that yichen said no and thing somehow did happened. Lot of things I have missed now that I think about it. Partially it comes from a reader who just read story as it is and not in analysis mode. But this approach looks like when u put urself in their shoes and understand their pov. Both techniques are right and imp. One gives overall idea of someone who is not involved to see the situation clearly and another is deeper like empathy. An effort to understand why and what if of character. Second approach as much as it is effective but as much as it is tough on reader and tiring. I find that switching constantly in between characters pov little bit hard. But considering that a lot i have missed i will give this method a try without any bias in my head with clear mind.

Novel is surely long. And i acknowledge that it has to be read in leisure time. But also when u are in correct energy to recieve and process the novel.

True, to make the fictional world feels real author don't need to make their characters go through all the pain in the world. But sadly some do. Because if u give pain then reader will sympathise it more and feel connected with their pain and the characters and the story in general. But this works when ur core story is based on fiction.

But when u read novel like "kite runner", "tamas" u are including those characters and world not to make world feels alive and real. But to add the tragedies that happened. How it impacted the world, people. These stories deal with some real dark stories that atleast in "tamas" author included a line " say or not say doesn't matter" as if mocking future generations and readers that say or not say. U will eventually forget these events and if remember it's just a line in history page. Not understanding the pain the country or people has to go through. Here world building and inclusion of other characters was not just branching plot to main characters those could be real people whose name just got changed to make us future generations know and remember the depth in tragedy once a place has seen. And why as to till this date that event is a thorn between two countries, people, community and religion.
I went very off topic here. To the point that this forum doesn't look right place for this Convo.

Now this part I never thought before this because this info was unimportant for me. But now after reading ur take I think it was imp. Although i don't see and ques both lufeng and yichen for fulfilling their desire. Those are normal human being feeling. Plus they were not together. Yichen truly was seeking the comfort the relationship lufeng brought with him with qin lang and not just sex. Which he can't find because he can't love qin lang. What he was looking was a complete relationship with him to move on from lufeng. So his relationship with lufeng must be good. Except that SA in first time intimacy.

But lufeng was different. He never wanted to look to other people as his romantic interest. He was clear he was, is and always will be loving only one person that is yichen. But desire is a human thing. One can indulge with consent from both parties if no dating is involved. That's why I never even questioned lufeng in 20 years gap when he was bringing people nor in drama when he was pretending. Just the intention was wrong in drama. He was purposely bringing so that he can't hurt yichen and i get his stance he wanted yichen to feel the same pain he felt but how it impacted yichen we already discussed. Yichen developed strong inferiority complex.
But in novel lufeng was no where wrong. Why would one have to stop and control their human need when he is not in relationship and will never be. Yichen coming back to his office was something lufeng would have never imagined so why would he had to? And even if he was aware why he should wait 20 years? That's why when drama was airing lot of people here pointed out as to how wrong lufeng is doing with yichen by this. And i actually never understood why it's wrong? Lufeng was just being a human.

Please enlighten me regarding yichen and his brother and how it affected trust and how qin lang relationship had to do anything with it. Because I truly didn't understood. And i am actually trying to understand here. For me, yichen's brother actually was wrong in pushing qin lang to him when he knew the reality and i thought as a brother he was genuinely concerned. As to how it impacted yichen I see only as him loosing his confidence in himself and making joke of him. Adding to his genuine effort to move on from lufeng. I never thought and am actually having hard time in understanding the hate towards yichen's brother and why this is so imp. Because there was mention of this later also. But not in detail.

Ending here we both agreed. I am just happy that I am not alone. See i can't make and influence (nor i want to) whole world. I just want to feel that there is someone who also think like me. Simple. Because in drama ending I was crying and crying. It took me days to figure out as to why their togetherness is not making me feel happy. Why I saw those eyes of lufeng and why yichen's energy was off as if he has lost his some part of soul. He is just calm. And not in good way. It was sad calm . Generally calmness is good but that kind of calm. God what i am even saying. But anyways that's how I feel. Novel ending we already discussed in detail.

It's understandable why people think it promotes toxicity. Because for most people togetherness= happy. When it's not. What happened between them was just sooo tragic that even in separation they will suffer and in togetherness also. One line explained everything " happiness in true sense can't be achieved after all these". That's their take and this is my take. Diff pov.

I am definitely not putting you in victim- perpetrator audience zone because we constantly explored deeper aspects of story. It's just that when I see those reviews I feel am I that wrong to look past toxicity and understand characters and their position and their relationship beyond that. I feel like am kinda bad here when i have literally taken a course and studied books and given exams on ethics, social justice , integrity, ans ques revolving around crisis of consciousness.

Now, exactly this I was thinking these days. How a minor change in adaptation can change everything in story and the dynamics of relationship and understand the characters emotional position. That's why I generally don't understand what's the middle ground of adaptation. While adapting as it is.. is extreme and while making changes...changes the stance and the emotional depth of story. Novel and ff gives liberty of creativity and exploration without any filter but movies and drama can't work like that. One change( modification/ addition/ deletion) doesn't seem much to others but in reality even adding a location or changing place changes lot of things. How much should be adapted as it is? And what and how those changes should be brought is a question itself to the people who are adapting. The directors, screenwriter and author herself for what she wants things to add/ keep as it is. But to viewer we can only see and understand the changes and it's impact.

Lufeng seeing gay couple in US must have hurt him so much. But i feel he also would have thought what if they fell in love with each other in US and not in China. Things would be soo heavenly for them.

For yichen crying in park. There is my observation or kind of difference u can say. In novel, it was straight up depicted as rape. Period. No misunderstanding just rape. Because if the logic " everyone wants to make love with whom they love" holds true in action. Yichen would not have felt "not enjoyed". He protested lufeng lot of times that let's talk. I am not ready . But lufeng no. He can't take no for he is powerful and rich and stupid controlling male ego also hiding behind the mask of " oh he is just scared and nervous". The drama's presentation may not make all viewers recognize it immediately as rape. Before I say anything in this regard my stance is clear " rape is rape no matter who, how, what nothing." Now in drama, when I say not everyone can immediately identify it as rape means it kinda confuse their audience in thinking that might be might be yichen is actually just nervous because when lufeng said " what are u scared of", yichen replied " anyone would be in their first time". Because that's also a valid point. First time actually everyone will feel nervous.No strong saying I didn't liked it as dialogue internally like in novel and when lufeng said why he looks unhappy. Yichen's reaction was like i didn't deny the intimacy it's just i have feelings why I have to be in bottom, what my parents and society will think. Which kinda confuse a person. ( Trying to put logic in SA is just idk how to even say) . But it's a straight up rape because when that scene was happening one can feel uncomfort and mixed or switching yichen's feelings during that scene. But the park scene reduced the whole thing they was trying to show. Like u said u can't forgive the smile part of yichen. I can't understand the need of reasoning after SA. Simple. After SA u don't give explanations.

Now I also think the first time intimacy drama was not trying to show it as a rape because when I saw Reaction video of them. They didn't seem to recognise it as rape. Could be they were avoiding sensitive topics in reaction video but facial expressions is also not telling me that. But I saw that reaction in ep9 reaction video.

Sometimes that's why one should not ignore the adaptation of the exact line and post SA scene from novel. Plus i remember in book yichen was sitting because he can't go home/ hostel. Because he didn't had wallet and bus transportation. He sat in park because of helplessness. What he must be going through godd.... But in drama they cut everything and just showed yichen being sitting on park due to exhaustion. Why would screenwriter did that? I was frustrated there. It impacts how character feels and how audience perceive it.

Note- I am not finding logic or justifying or romanticising rape. It's a heinous crime. If i used a word that came out otherwise I apologise in advance and I am ready to rephrase my words.

Hmm. MDZS was truly a masterpiece. A well written book. But seriously after this conversation i have to read ARTTL again and notice those little points u mentioned.

-----off topic-----
Also, after this whole Convo i think I will remember the main plot and branching plot theory for which i never understood as to why in certain novels people take diff stories and merge it in one. Why there are random mentions of other people who were never the part of the story characters. I now got the ans of that which is the main plot.
I was not ready to read one novel despite me voluntarily purchasing "tamas" which dealt with partition stories of 1947 and published in 1974 for which it deals with diff class of people and how it impacted them and how the daily life during that time looked. Mentions of killing, hate speech, communal hatred towards religion. But now i guess with this theory it make sense as to why those are included and I can actually redefine my approach towards that story by not looking through character lens and more as a society and human sense.

I am not sure about lan lin style but if it's intentional then she proved why she can write and handle this genre well. Because even if u are making audience feel happy and then sad then mix emotion then happy and sad. The events and timing of those events and duration has to be of perfect precision so as to help readers/ viewers differentiate major events and it's impact and it's role in overall relationship dynamic. Too short of this connection will loose reader interest and understanding of character and too long will not give exact roller coaster ride of emotions.

About Lufeng being drugged it contributed a lot in their relationship as yichen who was ready to give another chance despite him being fearful of heartbreak ultimately understood that walking in path with lufeng will eventually lead to his fear coming true in long term and that's why he resigned. Lufeng being in other hand it was trigger to him of loosing yichen and again going through hell in separation. Thats why that one action was the shift in his actions and approach towards yichen from being sweet in approach but obsessed to show and approach yichen with obsession and possession.

On the other hand, yichen and qin lang relationship in novel was yichen's desperate attempt to move on from lufeng. He really wanted that to work but it didn't. In drama, he was trying to get feelings for qin lang but he couldn't. This minute difference in adaptation made me see things differently. First of all for me yichen and qin lang relationship arc didn't contributed much to the story. Remove it and u still know that yichen can't move on as he still love lufeng. His love was deep enough to hold it stronger in his heart and memories that even if there is uncertainty of him coming back from US he can just live single and in yearning. But what changed here with adaptation in drama is that yichen always stayed loyal towards lufeng. Physically, emotionally, mentally. That led me feel their love more stronger.

For the ending yes. We both here agree and are on same page. When i watched drama ending I can see and feel how this is not happy ending despite main characters being together. I was not seeing happiness in specially lufeng's smile and his eyes. And from yichen's side although he didn't express much and was there for lufeng in his treatment and after and in ending scene. His togetherness with him didn't made me feel happy for which his soul is scarred with separation, time they lost and most importantly SA. SA just crushes your soul to the point the only way to heal is to first forgive urself, then the perpetrators( which is impossible), then work on urself bit by bit for ur soul has shattered into 1000pieces of glass. Pick it up, get hurt while picking and still ur hands will bleed. U will glue them but cracks will be there always and some glass pieces crushed so bad that u can't just find it. I see SA of that level.

That's why at one point I never wanted them to be together. But when I saw them together I felt happy and was in dilemma for days that why??? Why i have to feel this way. Ur point here make sense that even if they are together but not happy and i felt it as well was in a way lan lin's way of showing the repercussions of those actions and process that it's irreversible. And after those things happy ending in true sense can never be achieved and in a way lan lin way to say to its readers and viewers that she don't promote toxicity.

I get your point about RL. I will leave this topic by just saying that I am,will and never going to stop saying that it's a fault in writing and audience ( whatever reasons whether author romanticise it or not, whether audience perceive it as rom com leading to distributed attention or even unnoticed and it didn't contributed to the main plot except the fact it has led us to understand the characters better) that gang rape, use of torture in sex, partner sharing and what not are not something u can just show in the name of characterisation, plot and just branch arc and never address that. Acknowledgement is also an addressing an issue and it should happen either from author, show, audience. We both agree here. U as saying issue in author's writing and me through audience and show. We both understand here. Why i am emphasizing this strongly? Because i have seen in my real life and through out my life how drama/ movies/ literature has influenced mass. Eg- there was one movie where ML fell in love with FL and he follow her everywhere in the name of love. And this was shown and sidelined again and again in the name of fiction and creativity that today my country think this is romantic. And this became such a major issue that even internationally this behaviour was called out because that person was influenced by movies. So big no there. I am not against throwing and showing serious issues and dark issues. I am well open to that. Because it helps in bringing out the things no one has thought and it happens. Education and awareness spread by these topics. Psychology gets better understood. And as audience when we see these we raise our valid points and try to bring these things in front of society and in law making.

I now do understood your point after discussion that why RL was seen more as rom com because it's main plot is rom com and DH is complete dark romance in genre. So toxicity is the main plot which has driving force as love. So the focus here is more on toxicity rather than plot, characters and their position itself.

I am not longer comparing DH and RL. I understood those are two different genre and comparing it will be useless.

But tbh DH is much more deep than what story tells u and show actually shows u. Simply reducing DH as just victim and perpetrator and saying their relationship is Stockholm syndrome. I am confused here because i clearly see what DH offers me is a very layered characters and layered plots and mix of emotions. Sometimes when it's hard to understand the story people generally reduce it to more simpler terms which they understand the most( here lufeng being perpetrator and yichen being victim) which is not the complete premise of the story here. In drama, The story is and will always be about two people in love who wanted nothing but to share a lifetime together. And that promise was etched in their heart. But the society didn't let them. Eventually they broke themselves and their love because of society, expectations and their own choices leading both of them to suffer. One became monster and other became the bearer. But as u only pointed out, it's dark romance. It should hurt u( enough to let go of that person despite love because of pain) but it's comforting u also( staying together due to love despite being hurt).
It's not stockholm syndrome to me nor the victim perpetrator story. Victim- perpetrator is just a major branching plot contributing to main plot here to me.

I love these complex and emotional high stake stories where no one is in right no one is in wrong. Both are right and both are wrong. Characters where u should hate him( lufeng being monster in house capture) but u do understand the pain of character( his family bg, power, separation, yearning). It questioned not only me as audience but me as an individual. I was having sleepless nights just because I was simply not able to understand my moral compass and dilemma why I have empathy for lufeng. Why yichen despite him making sacrifices for his family I feel strong hatred towards him also. Because of his lack of effort in saving the relationship and fighting for it. For me this drama was not only a dark romance to it's characters but also to me. I was truly astonished by the toxicity as I have never dealt with these emotions earlier( toxic relationship but still wanting happy ending but still happy ending feels wrong). I am not sure about how author of DH wrote this story. Was she truly that creative prodigy to write these intentionally or she unintentionally created a story where reader/ viewer is undergoing so much. Either way DH will always be a story close to my heart. Whether positive or negative idk. But it did left it's mark on me, to a person who is looking for a story that connects my heart and fulfill my soul by emotions, pain, love, questioning morality. That's why I just don't understand less rating. Because I am sure even actors had it hard. To be able to portray those heavy emotions through dialogue, movements, eyes, touch shows how capable Ayden is.

I am not well educated in literature and art of writing. I see drama I feel drama and it's characters and I keep story close to my heart.

The only time I went into the pshycology of writer is when i read Master of demonic art cultivation ( The Untamed novel). Author did said it that she used empathy techniques for time travel to say xue yang and song lan story. And in case of Jin ling she deliberately didn't chose empathy technique and used soul chord technique as it was not story but through ques and ans they were trying to figure out what happened to jin ling and where he is. It was such a good literary device. I was truly impressed.

But this drama I tell u. It gave me massive trauma that I need to sit down and write diff endings( i wrote 4-6 endings) so that I can silence my inner thoughts and mixed feelings towards this drama and their characters. When i am core sucker of just reading novels and books but no writing.
That being said it was a good discussion.

I agree with all points here. Before replying to ur any point. I will just highlight i haven't read complete book sentence by sentence not volume1. I read volume 2 more better. And I read when this drama was airing to help me connect more with characters.

1. I do realised that novel is from yichen's pov. What we got to know about lufeng is through yichen's lens. About lufeng being recognised as problem in novel. Hmm I need to re read book. I might have missed it. But this is also true that in drama there was recognition plus action on that part. Show literally highlighted explicitly a lot. In book as u urself said and the ans I will get after re read is implicit.

2. The stark contrast between their sweet relationship in their school days to the phases after coming back from US, then separation then black flag then cool off phase then near separation then reunion ( add drama- reunion- recognition of lufeng problem then again trying to cope up then reunion in drama) that's a lotttt. It's a lot to keep up for the people who are going through. And as viewer I was literally not getting room to breathe and settle down my emotions. I am not understanding the volume parts here. Because the translation that I followed ended after their kiss with 10 chapters. And there i didn't understood lufeng's life. I understood how both see each other after black flag era. How their relationship is evolving.

3. Agree. Agree. Agree. ( In daily soap opera style).
In novel lufeng redemption was his realisation of the whole situation they reached. He was suffering mentally and emotionally carrying the weight in silence. His realisation can be felt in his actions( restraint, respecting boundaries, not taking first action in terms of intimacy, hesitation). Drama lufeng apart from these faced another layer of problem his mental health. Mind you. Both suffered. In novel, yichen's body inferiority complex started to arise from the day he saw lufeng around young people. He always compared his body with others. That how he is too old and nothing attractive about him. At the end this feeling remained within him. But there is one line that was beautiful where lufeng said " i got intimated and kissed lot of people but i am felt nothing. It's always u who my body and heart wants. "Just u and always u. One kiss was enough to satisfy Lufeng's soul. For me that sentence was powerful. Lufeng was even attracted to yichen's body. It's yichen who think he is sex doll. It can be resolved. I want novel yichen in fictional world to understand this and stop having body inferiority complex and his useless secretary thing. I guess that's why even yichen wanted to have a shop on his own. His own independence as an individual financially and psychologically.

I literally chocked on my ice cream by reading ur snake thing. Saying it to a person who is scared to death of snakes and find it creepy was cherry on top.

Never knew of that sentence in novel. But i am getting feeling that you are saying CA was supposed to a rom com but because the author used to romanticise it during her old days she included all these toxic parts. I am not aware of this. What i thought while reading is that novel is toxic bl and it has character WSW which makes whole novel giving a sense of rom com.

My comparison of RL to DH was based on later reference.

Like u agree writing was bad in that context. I am saying although it was comical ,addressing and acknowledgment from either author, audience is imp. Part of this is coming from a girl who has always seen wrong in drama/ novel/ movies but neither audience nor show treat it as problem.

We are on same page here that partner sharing is wrong and its bad. But did show showed that? Did audience questioned it? What i am comparing is not genre. But the action. Just because a drama is rom com it doesn't snatch away the wrong act in novel/ drama and my point why hypocrisy in audience despite genre in pointing out wrong as wrong? And if one is having that strong sense of justice then justice can't be biased. Not seeing problem in RL or CA and only seeing issue in DH is irony.

It's not about flavour of cake( genre)It's about cake. ( Action in drama).

True. Afterall liking is a subjective matter. Even though we are in same boat. I will not deny that..i didn't smiled when I heard magic City and coconut city. And the way director was sooo non chalant. He don't care whatever is happening around him. Just chemistry and his series and his actions and cut.🤣🤣

I have same problem. What everyone told me is shut my brain and just enjoy. It's not about list but more about how u are approaching this drama. If you approach by expecting " deep in" like drama name u will not like it. If u approach it as light drama it will work.