peng-peng:
Our XY was damaged and new at " being in love"
GASP! I can quote this! lol
Yes!! I love the line from the novel where Xiaoyao said something like '...Jing and I both liked someone for the first time.' - they are the first loves of each other! hehe Tonghua really gave Xiaoyao the best person in the world...She just really had to suffer many tribulations for her HE..
I wonder if this line made it into the S2 script... I sure hope it did...
FTCU:
Yup she did. And honestly? I’m happy she got broken hearted lmao,that may sound mean but psshh don’t care heh heh. If her heart wasn’t broken, she’d have STILL been in her passive,pessimistic state waiting for Jing to solve all the problems,like giiirrrlll??!!! ??? so yes! She learned her lesson the hard way,her vomiting blood & being bedridden for days shows how much she loves Jing & the effect he had/has on her.
AGREE.... what is tribulations in a xianxia if not for plot advancement and being a teaching experience?
Xiaoyao still had alot to learn about what is love, how to love another, and what it takes to love!
Everyone has to vomit some blood now and then... its a must lol
FTCU:
I was like girrrll, you deserve it, for once your choices made you lose the man you love. You knew about FFYY & her evil ways but never told Jing to be on guard. You still watched the man you love plummet into a hole & ended up blaming him & leaving him cos you didn’t trust him, even tho you KNOW he’ll NEVER hurt you but you CHOSE to abandon him. So yes,I wasn’t moved when she was crying nor being love sick.
I was moved... my poor yaojing babies... suffer a bit more your love will grow up big and strong! lol
Its like building muscles in the gym... you going to get some sprains, some aches, but its better than being a flabby untoned piece of easy to obtain love just from sweet ice cream...
okay what am I saying already... LOOOL
FTCU:
Me too, I just can’t handle that scene cos it’ll make me cry again. This is coming from someone who never cries at emotional scenes, I find them cringe. It really made me resent XY cos she hates being abandoned but was the first to abandon her lover.
Xiaoyao abandoned him when he needed her the most... yeah I was pretty mad at her at the time too...If she didn't get equally broken hearted I would have just wanted Jing to go be some rich single bachelor somewhere...
Especially when I read that part where Jing had been so traumatized after he thought he slept with FFYY that he kept showering throughout the day... that poor little fox thought he was r*ped and he received ZERO emotional support from anyone.
I think even last year there were leaked BTS shotsAH :
Yep, I did see those, so it looks like though there will be changes, hopefully the essence of the remaining part of the story remains the same. Although, I think with CX's story there will be the most changes.
Sorry I am trying to quote but the MDL system just won't let me... is it because my account is not levelled up enough hmmsoTreeD:
Yeah, you'll be able to quote after you post a certain amount I believe. It was the same for me at first.
Hi AH!Blueberries Field:
It's good to see you here.Blueberries Field:
Thank you!
My 2 cents: if this were the case - that XL did not really intend to kill CX (who was the king of Xiyan at that point ?) - that would mean that, as the leader of the Shengnong army, he would have betrayed the army. I would imagine that killing the enemy king in a war would make a big difference. It comes down to choosing between loyalty to his army or his love for XY.Blueberries Field:
And third, CX left Shengnong Mountain (the capital) and went to visit the Xuan Yuan military encampment in QS Town. By visiting the military encampment personally, he entered the arena of war and made himself a target that perhaps XL could not ignore in good conscience given his obligations as a leader of the Shengnong remnant army. In chapter 7, when XY asked XL why he had to kill CX, he mentioned his sense of obligation to do his part given his position in the Shengnong remnant army.AH :
I agree that XL would not have done anything that he considered to be a betrayal of the Shengnong remanant army.
I also agree that he previously expressed a sense of duty to kill CX even before CX became the Black Emperor (back when he didn't know XY's true identity or her relationship with CX).
And I agree that it's very possible that he would have felt compelled to kill CX (despite the emotional pain it would cause XY) by the same sense of duty in chapter 46.
But for ~100 years (between chapter 15 and chapter 46) XL didn't take advantage of the many opportunities he had to kill CX at times when he would have been more vulnerable and accessible to XL than he was when XL shot at him / Feng Long in chapter 46.
And Feng Long was Xuan Yuan's top general leading the campaign against the Shengnong remnant army. So if CX was Enemy #1 for the Shengnong remant army, Feng Long was Enemy #2 and killing him would be the next best thing to killing CX in terms of things that XL could do to fulfill an obligation to "do his part" as a leader in the Shengnong remnant army. They certainly were not equivalent, as Feng Long's death did not have the disruptive effect that killing CX would have had and he was quickly replaced. But his death (and the gains that the Shengnong remnant army got in the subsequent battle) was not insignificant. So perhaps XL could feel that he had reasonably balanced his obligations to Gong Gong and the Shengnong remanant army and his desire to not kill XY's most important person (despite all the harm and pain CX had caused her) by killing Feng Long instead of CX.
And it also seems like pretending to kill CX while actually aiming to kill (and succeeding in killing) Feng Long would have done more to further both his personal interests and possibly even Gong Gong's interests.
In terms of XL's personal interests, killing Feng Long meant killing a person who had helped Xing Yue try to kill XY in chapter 44. Seeming like he was trying to kill CX and actually killing Feng Long also did enough to anger XY (along with the other things he said and did in chapter 46) so that she would meet him, cut ties with him, get the hints she needed to realize for herself that CX had killed TSJ so that she would finally see what he had done to her and break free of him (which was necessary to ensure that she could have her happy ending with TSJ), and give him her blood so that he could revive TSJ (also necessary for that happy ending) without her suspecting his motives... all without subjecting her to suffer and feel guilty over CX's dying in front of her and blaming herself for it.
As for Gong Gong's interests, IMO, it seemed like Gong Gong's goal wasn't so much about doing whatever it took to achieve victory over Xuan Yuan as it was about never breaking his oaths (a key part of his character that is highlighted in Once Promised), including never surrendering.
One of the oaths he made in Once Promised was to never pursue the throne. So if his remnant army somehow miraculously did defeat Xuan Yuan and restore Shengnong, his character-defining absolute adherance to his oaths would mean that he could not become the Flame Emperor of that restored Shengnong Kingdom. And there were pretty much no other viable candidates for that position (an issue that existed to a lesser degree even before Shengnong was conquored, when Gong Gong made his oath, and contributed to Shengnong's demise).
The leaked script for S2 (which, of course, may or may not be legitimate - but the logic of it could potentially apply the novel whether or not the script is real) also includes a scene where Gong Gong (or rather Hong Jiang) explains (through a vague metaphor) that his army's perseverance and insistance on fighting until death, even when there was no longer any hope of ever restoring Shengnong, served a hidden practical purpose to help the former citizens of Shengnong that continued to live in the Middle Plains in one way (as much as Feng Long's father's governance from within Xuan Yuan helped them in another way). The idea being that as long as the Shengnong remnant army was able to persist and convince the world that they would never give up, the Yellow Emperor would not persecute and mistreat the people of the Middle Plains out of fear that they might eventually be driven to support and join forces with the Shengnong remnant army to the point where it would become large enough and powerful enough to pose a real threat to Xuan Yuan once more.
But by the time chapter 46 finally rolled around, even that role really was no longer necessary. Xing Yue (a descendant of the Shengong royal family and a descendant of the Chishui family, one of the Four Great Clans of the Middle Plains) was Xuan Yuan's Empress. And CX had moved the capital to Shengong Mountain and made a point of treating people from the Middle Plains well, including giving men like Feng Long (his brother-in-law and right-hand man) the opportunity to obtain the highest positions and pursue the greatest military achievements. And other Middle Plains families had been encouraged to intermarry with Xuan Yuan families so that the lines between the former kingdoms were becoming blurred. So after 400 years of fighting as a remnant army (and many more years of fighting in the great war between Shengnong and Xuan Yuan before that) the Shengnong remanant army could finally bring their fight to an end (not surrendering, but fighting until the last of them died on the battlefield as they swore to do - which the novel describes as the best ending for them / something that would be a release for them) and rest assured that the people of the Middle Plains would not suffer as a result.
Ep 17 (S2 Ep25 scenes 10, 11)liddi:
At the main Shen Nong encampment, ShenNong Yi (Feng Long's father) was paying full respects to Hong Jiang.
SNY (bowing): Uncle.
HJ: Take a seat.
SNY (nervous): Uncle, I have shamelessly come to visit you because...
HJ (interrupting): You don't need to say more. Back then I was filled with contempt when I heard that you had surrendered to the Xuan Yuan king. Your father rather died than bent his knee, his body totally obliterated, yet he had a coward for a son who brought shame to his reputation.
Ashamed, ShenNong Yi kept silent.
HJ: Later, I saw how you endured humiliation and became the lord of Zhi Yi city. Under your administration, the people of the Middle Plains who suffered terribly from the war regained a new lease on life, and I felt that perhaps your choice seemed justified. Prioritise the people over the land, the identity of the ruler is unimportant. What matters are the people.
The acknowledgement of his intentions made ShenNong Yi tear up from aggrieved sadness and emotional joy.
SNY: Now the Great Wilderness is at peace, His Majesty is sage and benevolent. I beg you to put down your heavy burden and surrender.
HJ (smile): When Shen Nong kingdom was destroyed and we were called to surrender, my answer was to fight to the death. Now, my answer remains the same!
SNY (grieved): Why? The destruction of Shen Nong kingdom happened hundreds of years ago. The descendants of the people of the Middle Plains long have no ties to the old kingdom. Why do you still persist on persevering to the death when you approve of my way?
HJ: A Yi, your choice to surrender was not wrong, but neither is my choice. (gaze at the large tree outside the window). Roots grow downwards, while branches grow upwards. The roots go into the darkness while the branches face the sunlight. Both appear to be in direct contrast, complete opposites, but it is exactly because one faces downward and the other upwards, one in the dark while the other is in the light, that this vibrant tree exists.
ShenNong Yi finally understood, and stared at the great tree, stunned.
HJ: The world needs people who are able to adapt to circumstances and go with the flow; as well as people who adhere to their integrity and will, who would rather die than surrender.
ShenNong Yi was extremely grieved. Hong Jiang said no more, got up and left.
****************
Xiang Liu prepared to send ShenNong Yi off with two vigilant Shen Nong soldiers.
XL: Lord ShenNong, the location of our encampment cannot be exposed, so we can only inconvenience you.
Extremely saddened, ShenNong Yi proceeded to give Xiang Liu a deep bow.
SNY: Please accept my bow.
Xiang Liu immediately stepped aside.
SNY: Although Uncle Hong Jiang consoled me that the roots and branches each has its own place, the world only sees the branches and not the roots; they love the branches that are in full bloom, but do not care about the roots that are covered in filth. All these years, it was exactly because of your unwavering stance that those of us who surrendered were given preferential treatment.
Once again, ShenNong Yi insisted on bowing to express his gratitude. This time, Xiang Liu did not avoid, calmly accepting ShenNong Yi's thanks and guilt-ridden regrets.
If Gong Gong cared about the welfare of the people of the Middle Plains more than victory, then there would be two reasons why killing Feng Long would further his interests more than killing CX.
First, killing CX would risk plunging the whole world (including the Middle Plains) into chaos and war.
Second, at the beginning of chapter 46, the Middle Plains families still had strong ties with Gong Gong and the Shengnong remnant army. Although they did not get involved when the Shengnong remnant army was maintaining its 400 year stalemate with the Xuan Yuan army, if the Shengnong remnant army seemed like its existence was really under threat, the Middle Plains families might feel obligated to get involved and to side with Gong Gong and the remnant army. But when XL (Gong Gong's adoptive son and a leader of the Shengnong remant army) killed Feng Long (the leader of one of the Four Great Clans of the Middle Plains) those ties were fully severed and there was no risk that the Middle Plains families might be harmed as a result of becoming embroiled in the Shengnong remnant army's final fight.
-----
Chapter 46:
Xiao Yao raised her silver bow and pulled back an arrow aimed at Xiang Liu. “Gong Gong lives for his fallen kingdom and stubbornly refuses to surrender, that’s something admirable! But people cannot fight against the inevitable, now Xuan Yuan, Sheng Nong, and Gao Xing have all united, each of the tribes, clans, and families are coexisting peacefully. If you kill Zhuan Xu then the entire vast wilderness will be launched into disarray and war will begin again. Hundreds of thousands of people will be swept up in the devastation. Is this what Gong Gong wants in order to cling to his loyalty, be true to himself at the cost of the peace of the world?”
Xiang Liu smiled a sardonic grin. “If I kill Zhuan Xu, then it means the vast wilderness isn’t yet united. How can you say we’re going up against the inevitable?”
“You know in your heart whether what I’m saying is right or not!”
...
Feng Long was the Chi Sui clan leader, and also the son of Sheng Nong nobility Little Zhu Rong. His death left a huge burden for Zhuan Xu to handle so he immediately met with the Yellow Emperor to discuss the matter.
The Yellow Emperor said, “Some things are both a curse and a blessing, if you handle this well it can be both. Feng Long’s unexpected death, aside from your personal sadness, may not be a bad thing for the future of the kingdom.”
Zhuan Xu paused to think about it and understood what the Yellow Emperor meant. Gong Gong was the Sheng Nong kingdom general and still had strong ties with many Middle Plains families. If it was détente then no one would need to pick sides, but now that it was the final war then many Middle Plains families might feel torn on who to support. But with Feng Long’s death at the hand of Gong Gong’s subordinate, the Chi Sui clan and the Sheng Nong tribe would never ever forgive Gong Gong. Now all the Middle Plains families would stand behind them as well. So with Feng Long’s death, it actually severed all remaining ties between Gong Gong and the Middle Plains completely.
Zhuan Xu bowed to the Yellow Emperor. “Thank Grandfather for your wisdom, I know what to do now.”
-----
So given all of those factors, I'm not totally sure, one way or the other, whether XL really did intend to kill CX in chapter 46 (it's definitely a possibility) or if it was a pretense, and Feng Long was the real target all along (also seems possible to me).
It feels like one of those parts of the story where Tong Hua included certain details and left certain things vague so that a case could be made for either interpretation instead of giving us readers a super clear-cut answer.
Sorry I am trying to quote but the MDL system just won't let me... is it because my account is not levelled up enough hmmsoTreeD:
soTreeD:
LOOL I could quote the shorter ones... its the longer quotes giving me issues but hopefully it will be fine soon... guess I just have to talk more? lol
Are you on desktop or the mobile app?
@AH
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Xiangliu. I am afraid I am not allowed to quote your post since I got error message, but I would like to add some of my thoughts for your consideration.
Xiangliu as a character has always been interesting, because of the way he chose to do things. The things he do may not be self-serving, but it is definitely to further his own interests, for his foster father or the Chenrong army. Is it really 'selfless' just because he is not the direct beneficiary of his sometimes harsh actions that end up hurting Xiaoyao directly? In short, most of the things he do, is tainted of his own choice or sometimes, no choice.
I will just bring up a few discussion points here: some from S1, some from S2 novel, so
SPOILER WARNING!!
Did Xiangliu keep Xiaoyao for 37 years which was actually longer than he needed to, just to make sure Tushan Jing would be near death and he could wrangle the best deal for his army from Cangxuan?
Xiangliu had apologized to Xiaoyao and asked if she would blame him if Tushan Jing died. He could also 'wake her on demand', which was why I thought he had the option to return her to her family sooner than he did. That was time he robbed from Xiaoyao, even though she was a deity with thousands of years of lifespan but in doing so, he also robbed time from Tushan Jing, who was cornered into his decision because he had no more time left since his grandmother was also out of time.
Xiangliu saving Xiaoyao from her loveless marriage at her wedding. I have even seen people throw the blame to Tushan Jing because Xiangliu was just a 'hired gun' in this matter. However, the difference was Tushan Jing went to Fenglong first, and he specifically asked Xiangliu to minimize the harm Xiaoyao could get over agreeing to stop her wedding.
You could say, Xiangliu did it for Xiaoyao's own sake. If he did it sooner, Xiaoyao may still be forced by Cangxuan to change her mind again, and she could still end up marrying Fenglong. However that would be conjecture, who is to say Xiaoyao after getting a wake-up call to be free from that engagement, wouldn't decide on another path for herself?
Xiangliu weighed everything but chose the worst possible way for Xiaoyao, for the chance to make the Chishui clan fall out with Cangxuan, weakening his rule.
Lastly , did Xiangliu really 'keep Jing safe from Cangxuan' for 6-7 years or he had ulterior motives as Xiaoyao pointed out? All he extracted was a promise for Xiaoyao not to kill herself again to avoid a 'romeo-juliet' situation, so we can tell he probably intended to reunite the two lovebirds eventually.
However Xiangliu was fully aware of how much suffering Xiaoyao went through, her extreme grief over losing Jing. While Cangxuan was under the delusion that Xiaoyao could get over Jing, Xiangliu knew better because he had direct access to how she felt.
I think Xiaoyao would have been fully capable of healing Jing without Xiangliu needing to drain almost half of her blood, and Jing could have taken subsequent steps to protect himself since its not like he didn't know what was going on. Once again, Xiangliu robbed time from yaojing.
But Xiangliu wanted the Central plains to destabilize, since the biggest and richest Tushan clan could fall into disarray because their Chief disappeared. He also counted on Xiaoyao to investigate on who could be responsible for Jing's death, and hoped she would become his knife to cut down the other chiefs of the big clans, including Cangxuan himself. He did not consider Xiaoyao's own safety in this. He was ready to send her to die when he sent her against Cangxuan since his guards were ready to kill her if not for Cangxuan stopping them.
I think Xiangliu did some 'good' things for Xiaoyao, but into it, he willingly mixed in alot of bad as well, for his own cause.
Xiangliu and Tushan Jing are both very intelligent people but they stand on the far opposite ends of how they treat others.
Xiangliu will always make his decisions calculated for maximum damage and benefit for his own people, but Jing will always try to minimize the damage caused to others not related to him, even after some of these people have hurt him repeatedly.
Jing will also never, ever knowingly hurt Xiaoyao with his every action, but Xiangliu can accept hurting her as long as the ends justified the means and she was still alive at the end.
With a Jing like that, I don't dare to use the word 'selfless', so can you truly claim Xiangliu is 'selfless'? I know the novel he was praised that his character cannot be bribed, bewitched etc but it just means he is steadfast in his own convictions. Does that really count as being 'selfless'?
@AH
as for this last part to your post
"So given all of those factors, I'm not totally sure, one way or the other, whether XL really did intend to kill CX in chapter 46 (it's definitely a possibility) or if it was a pretense, and Feng Long was the real target all along (also seems possible to me). "
I am not sure if your translated novel might have misled you but the Chinese novel nobody present was confused as to who Xiangliu's target was. Two men died that night to take the shots meant for Cangxuan.
He went that night to kill Cangxuan, because that was the last fighting hope for Chenrong army to survive. Only if Cangxuan died, will the Xiyan empire have a chance to collapse and the army could have a fighting chance. He made the decision to do it, even though he knew he was killing someone very important to Xiaoyao.
Between his love for her and his 'family' he still chose his family that night.
I think in S2 the drama would make this even clearer, so let's anticipate it!
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