Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 AH :

I agree that the strong implication in this scene is that XY was watching TSJ and FFYY.

But all I see is TSJ accompanying FFYY (very possibly because his grandmother told him to) to watch fireworks and standing away from her, and FFYY was drunk. When she staggered and nearly fell, TSJ steadied her and she leaned against him.

Obviously the whole scene plays heavily into WXL's insecurities in her male body. But I don't view this scene as an indication that TSJ had romantic interest in FFYY or wanted to keep his options open with her.

To me, if this truly was just a scene about WXL's insecurities, Tong Hua wouldn't have gone through the trouble of obscuring the identity of the man by describing him though hints like "sky-blue robes" and "tall bamboo in a mountain stream." It's not obvious who this man is all unless you hunt for the clues in the text. The fact that TH went through such lengths to hide Jing's identity here indicates that this scene should not be given the most innocent interpretation. At the very least, Jing is attentively acting the role of a doting fiancé in public, something he should absolutely not be doing if his intention was to end his engagement to her. I mean the drama showed CX acting cold and distant to Xin Yue during their wedding ceremony--so acting doting towards a fiancee when you intend to call off the engagement is definitely not a requirement. Also, Jing didn't mention a word about breaking his engagement to FFYY to his grandmother until after he saw XY's true appearance and trapped her in the 15 year promise. 

 solarlunareclipse:

“咦？往常也不见你扭捏，今日倒端起来了。”
"Eh? You usually don't act so shy, but today you're putting on airs."

— Vol 1 Ch 14 (Chapter 14)

 AH :

The way I read it, Jing was awkward because Feng Long referred to FFYY as his sister in law (reminding TSJ and XY of his engagement) and asked her to shut TSJ up for him, and FFYY did so by putting a cup of wine to TSJ's lips (way more awkward than just pouring him a glass).

TSJ might accept that kind of joking activity from a friend like Feng Long or Lirong Chang (and, IMO, that's why Feng Long notices and comments on his unusually shyness/awkwardness), but my impression was that he was very uncomfortable having FFYY act that way with him. Especially in front of XY (and especially after Feng Long referred to FFYY as his sister-in-law as if FFYY and TSJ were already married) as that was like rubbing the engagement in XY's face. 

This was not the first time Jing and YY were with FL in public. At the very least, FL and Xin Yue threw a party in their honor, and as previously noted, Xiao Yao saw Jing attentively cared for YY during this occasion while she was drunk. I imagine Jing and YY must have also acted like a doting couple on that occasion, and that he would have likely been put in similar "uncomfortable" situations.

I believe FL's comment applied specifically to Jing usually being accepting of YY's public affection, not to Jing's normal behavior toward his friends. The cause of Jing's off behavior was because XY was present on this occasion, which made Jing uncomfortable about accepting YY's affection for fear of tarnishing Xiao Yao's perception of him. I think we at least both agree that XY being there made Jing more uncomfortable than he normally would have been towards this type of behavior from YY.

 solarlunareclipse:

The reason Jing redoubled his efforts to cling to Xiao Yao was because Yi Ying didn’t like him, leaving him feeling unvalidated as a man.

 AH :

Again, I don't read his actions that way. But that's just me.

I think a lot of our differences in interpreting Jing's motivations stem from differing views on Tong Hua's intent in designing the character of Jing. Did Tong Hua design Jing as a benign, down-on-his luck, cowardly, inept, naive character who had the best intentions, but got out-schemed by Hou, his grandmother, and FFYY at every turn? Or did Tong Hua design Jing as a shrewd, manipulative, scheming character with unmatched brilliance, who had the power to make or break CX's bid for the throne, and was adept at calculating gains and losses and using the strengths/weaknesses of other against them in order to further his own objectives? I obviously lean towards the later camp. 

I think there are many examples in the novel where Tong Hua subtly shaded Jing and hinted at him being a manipulative character, including how he proposed to XY by listing all her faults, and how he used other characters like his grandmother, FFYY and Lirong Chang to propose the idea to Xiao Yao of her being his second wife. Furthermore, King Gao Xin, King Xuan Yuan, and Xiang Liu all spoke highly of Jing's intelligence and ability. It's only Xiao Yao who thought Jing acted like a bumbling idiot when he was around her.

Here's what Tong Hua writes about the origins of Jing's attachment to Xiao Yao. When Xiao Liu first took him in and tenderly cared for him, he remained despondent. It wasn’t until Xiao Liu blushed at the sight of his body that he came alive again.

“可那天我洗澡时，你看到我的身体，脸烧得通红。那一瞬我才觉得真正活了过来。没有了华服、没有了身份，可是在你眼中，我仍然是一个……男人，能让你心……”
"When you saw my body that day while I was bathing, you blushed. It was in that moment that I truly felt alive again. Without fancy clothes, without status, but in your eyes, I was still a... man, who could make your heart..."

— Vol 1 Ch 8 (Chapter 8)

Tong Hua reiterated the impact that Xiao Liu blushing had on Jing when responding to a question from one of her readers on Weibo.

音尘绝萧咽也jasmine: 其实有点困惑的是十七到底是哪一个地方开始发现小六是女子的啊?

Reader: Actually, what's a bit confusing is: when exactly did Shi Qi discover that Xiao Liu is a girl?

桐华tonghua: 他之前就知道小六是幻化的形体了, 但他当时万念俱灰, 什么都不在意, 直到小六看他洗澡脸红时, 他......嗯......死了 的心也跳了跳............

Tong Hua: He knew beforehand that Xiao Liu was in a disguised form, but at that time, he was in despair and didn't care about anything. It wasn't until Xiao Liu blushed when seeing him bathe that he... um... even his dead heart skipped a beat...

Xiao Liu's blush upon seeing his body reignited Jing's will to live. He clung desperately to Xiao Liu as his lifeline, unable to let her go because without her validation of his manhood, he didn’t have the will to continue living. This is all to say that Jing loved Xiao Yao because of how she made him feel, not because of her innate qualities or her kindness. If Yi Ying had liked Jing and had not been disgusted by his scars, he may not have clung onto Xiao Yao as tightly because YY could have validated his worth as a man.

The drama team even released Jing's letter to Xiao Yao, which was full of subtle shade towards Jing. I can only assume Tong Hua took part in designing or at least approved of this edit.

• When the letter read, "You are the world's greatest woman." the scene shows Xiao Yao at her introduction ceremony. This indicates that Jing was impressed by Xiao Yao's title, not by her innate qualities or kindness. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nSuHkaMwM&t=43s&ab_channel=%E8%85%BE%E8%AE%AF%E8%A7%86%E9%A2%91-GettheWeTVAPP
• After the letter read, "But you saw me." the scene immediately changed to show Xiao Yao seeing FFB for the first time at the dance hall. - https://youtu.be/Y1nSuHkaMwM?si=3D88aKYsdl4x0kXV&t=52
• When the letter read: "Even after I disappointed you, you still steadfastly came toward me." - https://youtu.be/Y1nSuHkaMwM?si=XMGiuY54a1p-gpNU&t=60  The video contained scenes and/or the voiceover from when Jing disappointed XY or when he let himself be used as a substitute for XL, despite knowing XL was the one XY really wanted.
  • Jing says, "I'm sorry" to Xiao Yao after FFYY's pregnancy is revealed: https://youtu.be/qXvnzBgeV8Q?si=m-tqBSjV16Jp7x-z&t=923
  • Xiao Yao says, "You're really an idiot." after Jing drinks the poison that was meant for Xiang Liu: https://youtu.be/LjRilzhw-is?si=AJjGt6fU9Z7awrKQ&t=1203
  • Jing says, "I'm sorry. I disappointed you" the first time Xiao Liu mistook him for Xiang Liu after the nine eyes incident: https://youtu.be/QjUAPgk-3FI?si=aLxdF5n2If47-ruN&t=2296

I don't believe TH meant to portray Jing in a positive light, and was constantly throwing shade at him. This is why I often interpret Jing's actions in the most manipulative possible light.

 Kokuto:

Question.  Did Jing try to bait and trap FFYY into poisoning him in the novel?

This also happened in one of the episodes.

Which episode? How does the drama show him baiting FFYY?

 blabla100:

"The drama is clever about how it cuts scenes."

I was thinking about this earlier, when I watched the TianEr's episode and I agree.  During their discussion, XY was thinking to herself about what  TianEr told her, asking herself if she's at fault too for what happened between her and jing, because how could she have expected their relationschip to work if she didn't even give her heart to him and right then she turns and looks at XL. I found it interesting, because to me this detail kinda gave me the impression that she never actually put her heart into her relationship with Jing because of XL too, because she kept hoping against all odds that XL would choose her. I always believed that XY really starts trying to make things work with Jing only after Qstown's arc, when XL really puts a stop to all her hopes once and for all anyway.

I can't wait to watch that episode. I agree that the novel makes clear that XY never took an active role in trying to make things work with Jing until after the wedding robbery.

 blabla100:

"Whether Jing had romantic feelings for FFYY or not, I don't think he rejected her outright in the novel."

I kinda agree and I had the same feeling while reading the novel, but for different reasons than the ones you mentioned. His conversation with XY from chapter 14 is one of the first that comes to my mind. His choice of words kinda made me wonder what would have happened if FFYY would have liked him. He made it seems as if he won't marry her because she dislike him and not so much as an assurance to XY that their marriage won't ever happen because none of them wants it. Like even XY makes a point that if FFYY doesn't want him, to come back to be her shiqi, instead of saying it the other way around, if you don't like her, than you come back to be my shiqi. 

Good point. I agree that if FFYY had liked Jing and validated his manhood, he would not have been as attached to XY.

 Kokuto:

But it also applies to XL.  It goes to XL, and on some level, she realizes she has never given her heart to him, either.  She's never tried to make it work, at all.

 blabla100:

XL never promised her anything, he never even let her know his true feelings, so there was nothing for XY to believe in in order to blame herself for not trying hard enough.

I agree that XY didn't know the true depth of XL's feelings for her and therefore probably didn't regret not trying hard enough with Xiang Liu until much later (after learning of CX's betrayal).

 blabla100:

XL always had her heart and trust, the one she failled was Jing.

 Kokuto:

XY didn't promise to have a relationship with Jing.   All she promised was not to fall in love with another man.  Which she did.  It was Jing who promised to free himself from his engagement and his responsibilities and return to her as 17.  He's the one who failed.

I couldn't agree more that Jing was the one who failed. He took XY's compassion towards Shi Qi and used it against her to trap her. Xiao Yao didn't fail in her dealings with Jing. XY was willing to marry Jing if he came through with his promises, but she didn't want to marry Jing. I am willing to get an appendectomy if I get appendicitis, but I don't want to get an appendectomy.

 solarlunareclipse:

Which episode? How does the drama show him baiting FFYY?

It was either 7 or 8 -- I think 8.  It was after XY 'confronted' him about ruining her wedding.  Such a weak 'confrontation' ... more like a confession of wrong doing from her.  sigh.

Anyway, basically, he baits FFYY into trying to kill him with his medicine, and she takes the bait.  I didn't remember it, but you know how I blank out about Jing. ;p

 Kokuto:

It was either 7 or 8 -- I think 8.  It was after XY 'confronted' him about ruining her wedding.  Such a weak 'confrontation' ... more like a confession of wrong doing from her.  sigh.

Anyway, basically, he baits FFYY into trying to kill him with his medicine, and she takes the bait.  I didn't remember it, but you know how I blank out about Jing. ;p

Thanks, I'll have to watch out for that episode.

I don't blame you for blanking out about Jing. I find that when Jing is on screen, it's also a good time to clip my toenails so I often draw a blank on his scenes too.

 solarlunareclipse:

To me, if this truly was just a scene about WXL's insecurities, Tong Hua wouldn't have gone through the trouble of obscuring the identity of the man by describing him though hints like "sky-blue robes" and "tall bamboo in a mountain stream." It's not obvious who this man is all unless you hunt for the clues in the text. The fact that TH went through such lengths to hide Jing's identity here indicates that there's more to the story.

I had to go back and refresh my memory because I haven't read that chapter in a long time. 

Koala's translation names Jing specifically, but the original text does not. However, it does name FFYY specifically and it doesn't seem too hard to figure out that the man that WXL observed beside her would be her fiance... TSJ, especially with that description, which is very consistent with other descriptions of TSJ throughout the novel. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Jing is at least giving FFYY face by attentively acting the role of a doting fiancé in public and not taking any steps towards ending his engagement to her.

If you're out watching fireworks with someone you don't particularly like or dislike, someone you feel guilty towards and want to behave politely to and that person is drunk and stumbles... if you catch that person so they don't fall and you don't noticably recoil when that drunk person leans into you... that doesn't quite merit "attentively acting the role of a doting fiance" to me. It seems more like baseline polite behaviour. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Jing didn't mention a word about breaking his engagement to FFYY to his grandmother and after he saw XY's true appearance and trapped her in the 15 year promise. 

TSJ and WXL made the 15 year promise in chapter 8. 

TSJ and WXL parted in chapter 10, saw each other again in chapter 12 (when XY was still in her WXL body), TSJ saw XY's welcome ceremony (with her in her true form) in chapter 13, and the two of them reunited in chapter 14. 

TSJ spent part of his time in QQ during those chapters, but it doesn't seem like it was a lot of time. And TSJ's grandmother was clan leader of a clan with Dahuang-wide business operations. Perhaps TSJ had very few opportunities to speak with her privately, especially without FFYY present. I assume TSJ also wanted to wait for a favourable moment to raise the engagement issue with his grandmother, rather than forcing the point at the first possible opportunity and potentially ruining his chances. If that was the case, I can see how he might not have raised the issue with his grandmother by the time chapter 14 rolled around. 

After they parted, the next time XY saw TSJ was in chapter 16, and he confirmed that he had brought the engagement issue up with his grandmother then. 

 solarlunareclipse:

This was not the first time Jing and YY were with FL in public. At the very least, FL and Xin Yue threw a party in their honor, and as previously noted, Xiao Yao saw Jing attentively cared for YY during this occasion while she was drunk. I imagine Jing and YY had to also act like a doting couple on this occasion, even though he would have likely been put in similar "uncomfortable" situations.

 solarlunareclipse:

I believe FL's comment applied specifically to Jing's behavior towards usually being accepting of YY's public affection, not Jing's normal behavior toward his friends. The only difference was XY was present on this occasion, and made Jing uncomfortable with accepting YY's affection for fear of tarnishing Xiao Yao's perception of him.

WXL observed TSJ catch drunk FFYY in chapter 12. 

Feng Long commented on TSJ's unusual stiffness / shyness in chapter 14. 

Between those chapters, there was another outing that involved TSJ, FFYY, Feng Long, and others in chapter 13. TSJ had not seen XY's true form at this point.

XY was not present, but TSJ acted very stiffly and was silent for the entire meal and Feng Long didn't seem to notice. 

-----

Chapter 13:

The restaurants of Ying Province were all well kept no matter big or small. Because the weather was warm all year round, flowers grew everywhere and the stores like to plant fresh flowers in front. Strolling the streets, there was water flowing and flowers in front of each storefront, the entire place was so delightful to the ladies.

Zhuan Xu led them into a restaurant and sat down. The owner picked up melons and wine being iced in the flower stream outside and put it on the table for them.

Zhuan Xu explained, “The people in the Middle Plains like to drink wine as is or warmed, but in Gao Xing the wine is drunk ice cold. This wine is made from the fruit in the mountains, try it.”

Xing Yue took a sip and marveled, “It’s so delicious.”

Yi Yang drank a cup and looked out the window and sighed. “If one can put everyone aside and live in a place like this with a loved one for the rest of one’s life, it would be worth it.”

Xing Yue laughed. “Jing gege, did you hear that?”

Jing’s body was stiff and he kept his eyes lowered and said nothing. It was instead Tu Shan Hou who looked at Yi Yang and then gulped his wine down.

The entire restaurant was filled with people discussing the return of the Gao Xing Eldest Princess, from her mysterious disappearance to her mysterious return. What made everyone marvel the most was her background – the daughter of the Grand Emperor, the granddaughter of the Yellow Emperor, the disciple of the Royal Mother.

Someone sighed wistfully. “To marry her is to vault to the top in one step.”

Another snarked, “Maybe she’s hideously ugly, even if one vaults to the top it’ll be accompanied by nightmares every night.”

Some men started laughing but Feng Long noticed Zhuan Xu’s smile that indicated clearly that he disagreed with that assessment. Feng Long asked curiously, “What does your cousin look like?”

Zhuan Xu smiled. “When you see her, you’ll understand.”

Xing Yue asked sweetly, “Because we’re friends, that's why we should find out earlier than others!”

Zhuan Xu hesitated. “I really don’t know how to describe.”

Women are more fixated on beauty than most so Xing Yue pressed on, “How does she look compared to Ah Nian?”

Zhuan Xu pretended to think and said, “That’s like comparing the flowers in the garden. The orchid has an orchid’s beauty. The rose has a rose’s beauty. It’s incomparable.”

Xing Yue was not pleased but Yi Yang interjected, “No matter what type of beauty, clearly she doesn’t have the looks that would worry a guy.”

Zhuan Xu pointed to the dishes on the table. “These are plants from the sea and very refreshing, try it.”

Feng Long and Hou understood he didn’t want to talk about his cousin anymore so started eating and changed the topic to the different cuisine between Gao Xing and the Middle Plains. Yi Yang and Xing Yue also happily joined in.

Jing’s hand was on his knee and it was tightly clenched into a fist as he sat there and never said a word.

 solarlunareclipse:

I think we at least both agree that XY being there made Jing more uncomfortable than he normally would have been towards this type of behavior from YY.

Yes, although for me I view that extra discomfort as being at least partly out of concern for XY's feelings rather than just how the circumstances might impact her perception of him. 

 solarlunareclipse:

I think a lot of our differences in interpreting Jing's motivations stem from differing views on Tong Hua's intent in designing the character of Jing.

Very possible. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Did Tong Hua design Jing as a benign, down-on-his luck, somewhat cowardly, inept, naive character who had the best intentions, but got out-schemed by Hou, his grandmother, and FFYY at every turn? Or did Tong Hua design Jing as a shrewd, manipulative, scheming character with unmatched brilliance, who had the power to make or break CX's bid for the throne, and was adept at calculating gains and losses and using the strengths/weaknesses of other against them in order to further his own objectives? I obviously lean towards the later camp. 

The way I view TSJ doesn't fit neatly into either of those two camps. 

I view TSJ as being shrewd and capable of scheming to outmaneuver anyone when it comes to business, account keeping, and political planning. Extrapolating from what XL said, it seems like no one takes advantage of him when it comes to making normal business deals (that don't involve XY). Never being taken advantage of in business requires having a certain amount of backbone, as well as intelligence. Extrapolating from what CX said, it seems that he was more than capable of neutering TSH before he ended up doing so, but couldn't bring himself to do so until his hand was forced by an assassination attempt. Which suggests that when TSJ comes across as inept, it's not because he lacks ability but because his soft-heartedness is holding him back from taking action. 

His weaknesses are the people he has close ties to, including XY, even if they betray him (like TSH and his grandmother) and, to a lesser extent, people he feels guilty towards / doesn't want to hurt or people he feels he has obligations to (like FFYY and his clan). 

When it comes to XY, I think his feelings were genuine, his intentions were generally good, and he didn't try to intentionally manipulate her when it came to important things. 

 solarlunareclipse:

I think there are many examples in the novel where Tong Hua subtly shaded Jing and hinted at him being a manipulative character, including how he proposed to XY by listing all her faults, and how he used other characters like his grandmother, FFYY and Lirong Chang to propose the idea to Xiao Yao of her being his second wife.

I hated the way he worded his proposal. But I got the impression that he was trying to be sweet, not trying to manipulate XY. But I do think that TSJ played the role of always taking the first step in their relationship, as he promised he would, which sometimes made him come across as a tiny bit pushy. But XY seemed to like/want that. I think maybe it made her feel wanted, while giving her too much space made her feel neglected / unloved / unwanted. I'm thinking specificially of how TSJ and the White Emperor agreed to a wedding date and then TSJ told XY about it and asked if it worked for her, and she seemed happy about it.  Compared to how she felt neglected and unwanted when TSJ didn't contact her for 16 months earlier in the story. 

I also didn't get the impression that TSJ ever thought that XY would accept being his second wife or that he used other people to try to achieve that outcome. He knew her personality and hangups.  

 solarlunareclipse:

Xiao Liu's blush upon seeing his body reignited Jing's will to live. He clung desperately to Xiao Liu as his lifeline, unable to let her go because without her validation of his manhood, he didn’t have the will to continue living. This is all to say that Jing loved Xiao Yao because of how she made him feel, not because of her innate qualities or her kindness. If Yi Ying had liked Jing and had not been disgusted by his scars, he may not have clung onto Xiao Yao as tightly because YY could have validated his worth as a man.

My interpretation was that TSH spent 2 - 3 years destroying TSJ's sense of self worth. When WXL tended to him, she made him feel safe and cared for but it was only when she blushed that she restored his sense of humanity and his hope of being a person of value and worth, and not just a burdensome object of pity, to another person. And as he started to re-build his sense of self-worth from that point, it was anchored to WXL. But I don't think that means that TSJ/YSQ didn't care about WXL's character. I feel like her character definitely contributed to how TSJ/YSQ viewed her. And I didn't get the impression that it was replaceable or transferrable.

I believe they are going to do a livestream with all the actors at 2:00 -- In about half an hour.

《长相思 第二季》相思时光礼见面会 (qq.com) 

Guys, what's the airing schedule for next week? Anyone knows? 

What I dislike most about the drama îs how emotional they made XL look. IMO it would have been so much better to keep his real feelings more hidden for the watchers, as in the novel. The twist at the end would have been so much better. Also, I believe a lot of viewers would have symphatize with XY a lot more and would have got to understand better the courage it took her when she sent the crystal ball to a man who's feelings for her were so uncertain.