Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 Kokuto:

Here's a scene I don't remember ... why is he back in black?

https://x.com/tlmssusu/status/1812069013792735534

I saw it this morning. I think it is the scene where XY saw a noble guy walking on street and she chased him to the casino (8 years after her engagement with Jing).  Then they met inside the casino. XL came there as Jing had invited him.

However, I was confused by XY's costume. why she looked like WXL

 H19279:

I saw it this morning. I think it is the scene where XY saw a noble guy walking on street and she chased him to the casino (8 years after her engagement with Jing).  Then they met inside the casino. XL came there as Jing had invited him.

However, I was confused by XY's costume. why she looked like WXL

I guess she's during her working hours... She looks like a doctor. 

 H19279:

I saw it this morning. I think it is the scene where XY saw a noble guy walking on street and she chased him to the casino (8 years after her engagement with Jing).  Then they met inside the casino. XL came there as Jing had invited him.

However, I was confused by XY's costume. why she looked like WXL

Eight year engagement.  SMH  True love indeed.

It looked interesting ... until Jing showed up.  I wonder what he wants now?

 blabla100:

I believe it's the scene where XY goes running after someone in the gambling den. I don't think that's supposed to be Bei. 

Yeah, it can't be Bei.  It's also a costume we haven't seen Tan Jian Ci in before.

 blabla100:

I guess she's during her working hours... She looks like a doctor. 

She's still running the clinic, I guess.

Check out this review from the s2 l's main page. It's spot on.  Credits go to the person who wrote it. Lots of good points. 

"The drama actually answers certain questions from the books. I have read the necessary and also watched until episode 10 of the drama. Whether Xiao Yao loves Tushan Jing or Xiang Liu is not the question, but who Xiao Yao loves as her soulmate. Cang Xuan is brother-zoned, which leaves Tushan Jing and Xiang Liu.

There are 2 incidents in the books which is shown in the drama, and gives the answer. Xiao Yao was close to waking up in her own body in the clamshell (after episode 31 in Season 1 of the drama), when Xiang Liu told her Tushan Jing was dying. In the drama, Xiao Yao's reaction is not the reaction of a woman in love. She is not heart-broken or anguished upon hearing Tushan Jing's condition of dying. She is focused wholly on Xiang Liu, and does not want him to hate her. When Xiao Yao wakes up and Xiang Liu is not present, her focus is to find him. When Furball turns up, she asks about Xiang Liu. And before she leaves on Furball, she sheds tears.

At that point, the drama is helping the audience confirm in the book that Xiao Yao is not in love with Tushan Jing. She is touched by what Tushan Jing has done for her and wants to be in love with Tushan Jing because that is what her rational mind tells her, but she is not in love with Tushan Jing. Xiao Yao loves Xiang Liu, because the Lovers' bugs are still safely growing inside each of them. If she was in love with Tushan Jing or his life as Ye Shiqi, Xiang Liu would have felt it. The Lovers' Bugs turning into Heartbreak Bugs would kill them both.

The second incident is in Season 2, episode 6. In the book, Xiang Liu is questioning Xiao Yao while using his abilities on her. Bear in mind that they have the bugs inside each other. Hence Xiang Liu has an accurate gauge to measure Xiao Yao's answers. In the drama episode, when she is asked whether whether she wants to marry Tushan Jing: She does not answer. When asked if she wants to marry Ye Shiqi, she says yes. Xiang Liu could have given up asking at that point. He does not. Why? Because the Lovers' Bugs are not giving him pain. This means Xiao Yao is giving answers that do not trigger love, hence telling Xiang Liu that he is not asking the right questions. If Xiao Yao can say yes to marrying Ye Shiqi yet not be in love with Ye Shiqi, that means marriage to Xiaoyao is not what she defines as a criteria for love.

On top of that, her answers are telling Xiang Liu that she can differentiate between the importance of Ye Shiqi and Tushan Jing to Xiaoyao, as Xiao Yao and as Wen Xiaoliu. That is when Xiang Liu asks who she wants to spend the rest of her life with. He does not make a differentiation in this question, He simply asks her who she wants to spend the rest of her life with. What Xiang Liu wants to know is who Wen Xiaoliu and Xiao Yao, as an entire person and wholeheartedly, wants as a life companion and soulmate.

This is when Xiao Yao gets a headache. Her reactions, in what she does not say and how the bugs inside their hearts react, is the answer. The fact that she refuses to answer is because she does not want to answer. It would require her to look clearly at what her heart knows, and acknowledge it. As someone with severe abandonment issues from all the traumas she went through, her conscious desire to choose Tushan Jing is understandable. Xiao Yao should not be faulted for wanting this. Tushan Jing is also understandable as a character.

However, unlike Tushan Jing giving conditions to Xiao Yao such as the 15-year request, Xiang Liu has never put any conditions on Xiao Yao to stay with him. He did not know what she really looked like or that she was Xiao Yao when they met, yet he was willing to put a bug inside his heart for the nobody Wen Xiaoliu, despite knowing the risks. In terms of love, his decisions consistently portray the extent of his love. Cang Xuan and Tushan Jing want Xiao Yao, but they do not put first and foremost what would make her happy and safe and strong. They don't have to sacrifice their lives for this, but it is not flattering for them that the one person who has the least access to Xiao Yao behaves most like her mentor and best cheerleader. Xiang Liu wants her to be strong, because he recognises where she is weak. She determined, but she is weak where she needs to be strong as a princess in her position. And it is because of his desire to strengthen her as a person, that Xiao Yao can also help Cang Xuan.

Seriously, look at what Cang Xuan and Tushan Jing have encouraged in Xiao Yao. Do they actually help her deal with any of her issues? Tushan Jing and Cang Xuan saw her reaction to Consort Jing (Season 1, episode 15), and the way she completely regressed when bawling about her mother. Xiang Liu did not even have that insight, but what did he do for her?

Xiao Yao is subconsciously touched by all this. Her heart has chosen. But she wants to use her mind to decide her future. Xiang Liu knows Xiao Yao loves him and not Tushan Jing, so he has to keep pushing her towards Tushan Jing because there is no future for Xiang Liu with her, and Xiang Liu knows this. Xiang Liu knows his cause is ultimately a lost cause, but he prolongs it as much as possible. He also knows how to appreciate what enjoyments he can find along the way. In his darkest personal moments- The novel and dramas do not show this. If he didn't know the honouring of his promise to a certain general was a lost cause, why would he ask Cang Xuan for a certain mountain in exchange for reviving Xiao Yao?

In the drama of Season 2 episode 6, Xiao Yao is crying over the death of Fangfang Bei. In the novel (not yet happened in the drama), when Xiang Liu has saved Xiao Yao from being sucked into a whirlpool and is badly wounded and wants to leave, Xiao Yao refuses to let him leave. She uses her entire body to try to catch and keep him. She is willing to let him drain her blood dry, as long as he does not leave. Read the novel on this (preferably in mandarin), so you can catch all the nuances of this scenario.

There are multiple instances in the novel where Xiao Yao has expressed an idea that she wants to stay like this or live like this forever, when with Xiang Liu. In the novel, Ah Bi is the winged fox-demon who acknowledges Xiang Liu's heart is so clear that he cannot be swayed by money, glory or power. We know from that, about Xiang Liu's love for Xiao Yao being noble and pure. Xiao Yao buries everything psychologically as demonstrated for most of the books, but when she hears of Xiang Liu's death, her reaction is no longer buried. She pushes to create her reality. She wants to live on an island in the sea. Even at the end of the novel, she wants to continue living in a world she knows with Xiang Liu, even if she can no longer share it with Xiang Liu because he is dead. Tushan Jing has given up everything to become Ye Shiqi in status and future, so Xiao Yao will share that world with him. It would be interesting to know at this point to what extent is Xiao Yao with Tushan Jing as Tushan Jing, and to what extent as Wen Xiaoliu wanting to keep Tushan Jing as Ye Shiqi.

I do not see Xiao Yao as selfish. Xiao Yao was deprived for so many years of proper guidance from a mother or mature female. She didn't even know if she was pretty or ugly. She had to fumble and grow. At the end of the books, she is finally becoming emotionally mature and stable. Xiang Liu's death forced her to start doing so and look at herself, instead of always looking to someone else.

The most important detail is Xiao Yao choosing consciously to live in the world she knows with Xiang Liu. Where she once consciously chose to verbally reject everything of Xiang Liu (wanting Fangfang Bei is also an indirect rejection of Xiang Liu) despite emotionally wanting him and spending the most time devoted to Xiang Liu, she has chosen to immerse herself in that world she knows with Xiang Liu, so she does not lose what is left of their shared history. This gives hope that she can heal further from her abandonment issues and consciously choose to finally give real love to Tushan Jing. Wait, it does not make sense, right?

For almost the entire novel. Xiao Yao is not emotionally healthy, and faulting her for being weak is to miss the fact that she is admirable for wanting to soldier on, to do the best that she knows despite how emotionally crippled she was. Being in survival mode while lacking necessary advisors for many years will do that to you. Her emotional health and growth was stunted for many years, which makes Xiao Yao weak in some aspects but not a weak person. Yang Zi gave a spot-on performance in Season 1 episode 15, whereby her entire breakdown tells us how deeply-buried her fears and pain are. Everything she went through with the demon fox and the loss of her mother also colours many of her choices. (Frankly, I could not stand Yang Zi in "Ashes of Love" because her acting seemed like only 2 expressions to me. Yang Zi's acting in this drama has been laudable, and her acting chops at this level was necessary to create the chemistry between the 3 males, or she would be overshadowed by Tan Jianci and Zhang Wan Yi.)

The emotional coffin she buried herself in is significantly fractured, by the time we get to chapter 49. And in chapter 50, after being forced to face Xiang Liu's death, Xiao Yao is more verbally honest with Tushan Jing. Tushan Jing has all the time in the world of what is left of his lifespan, to enable Xiao Yao to truly fall in love with him. Time will not close the hole in Xiao Yao's heart for Xiang Liu, but time can help Xiao Yao improve on her choice of being consciously honest with herself and trying to show that in words and actions, and hence become emotionally coherent. She buried herself emotionally, she has been breaking the confines of that coffin, and she is finally consciously pushing her way out of her emotional coffin. I am not a Tushan Jing fan nor am I a Cang Xuan fan, but I want Tushan Jing to help Xiao Yao be happy. That would also be fulfilling Xiang Liu's wish of countless sacrifices.

"Lost Your Forever" can be interpreted in multiple ways. It is about Cang Xuan losing Xiao Yao, Xiao Yao losing her mother and Xiang Liu, Xiao Yao losing the fractured girl that she was to reconcile Xiao Yao and Wen Xiaoliu inside as a person to grow, Tushan Jing losing Wen Xiaoliu and Xiao Yao to Xiang Liu after Xiang Liu's death because part of her will always be only for Xiang Liu and no one else. Xiang Liu does not lose anything in death, because he has ensured he lives on in the hearts of those who want to be with Xiao Yao.

This is the important context which cannot be missed, when people claim Xiang Liu was abusive and hence is unfit for Xiao Yao. Xiang Liu is a general, whose men undergo life-or-death situations every day. Wen Xiaoliu as a man and stranger poisoned his unique steed which is immune to most poisons, told lies, demonstrated rebellion, Wen Xiaoliu should have been executed by Xiang Liu. Instead, Xiang Liu spares Wen Xiaoliu. Xiang Liu changes along the way, after spending more time with Wen Xiaoliu. It's nice to imagine that Xiang Liu should have been nice to Wen Xiaoliu right from the start. That is also unrealistic, because Xiang Liu does not know who Wen Xiaoliu is. And Xiang Liu needs time to vet Wen Xiaoliu. On top of that, when encountering a stranger who can poison a unique steed and also have illusion magic that I cannot penetrate to see the real person, when I myself am considered very strong (see what he used when handling Fu Sang wood, to make the laughing doll)? I would definitely take as much time as I need to decide, before I decide whether to trust. Especially as a leader, a smart and highly-respected leader. I might fall in love, but it does not mean I am going to let my guard down and become stupid. Xiang Liu's reputation garnering respect and fear from his biggest foes is due to his choices and achievements which creates the gossip, not the other way around.

If Cang Xuan ordering his men to break Wen Xiaoliu's leg and getting an interrogator to ensure Wen Xiaoliu talks is understood and acceptable, Xiang Liu's reactions are also understood and acceptable.

By the way, if you work in a position where you are responsible for a whole company, a platoon or at least a division of more than 10 people, at least 99% of the time you never make decisions solely for yourself, if you are a good leader. You always bear that responsibility of considering the company/division/the team members. Xiang Liu's traumas and responsibilities are what enabled him to evaluate Xiao Yao from multiple angles, to know what Xiao Yao needs. Needs, not wants. Huge difference.

And Xiang Liu knows he cannot help her in some aspects because he is too aware of what he considers about himself to be lacking, but he reckons someone else who is not him can do so for her future. He was evaluating Tushan Jing and if he had thought Tushan Jing was not suitable for Xiao Yao, what would stop Xiang Liu from killing Tushan Jing earlier? Supplies for his troops? Xiang Liu had decided Tushan Jing's suitability and future by a certain point. I reckon he he made that decision, when he realised Tushan Jing's sacrifice to protect Xiao Yao's body, and had a discussion with Cang Xuan before using up one life to revive Xiao Yao.

Xiang Liu is a demon who has never experienced love. But what he has given as love is far more selfless than Tushan Jing and Cang Xuan. Your opinion may vary. But if you want to understand this as best as possible, you'd have to understand mandarin, the cultural mores, and have digested both the books and the drama. Relying on subtitles and translations will only get you so far. That said, Zhang Wan Yi is such an awesome actor as Cang Xuan that where I was "meh" about him in the books, I really felt bad for Cang Xuan in the drama and want him to be with someone who can love Cang Xuan properly. And no, it is not Xiao Yao. She would not be good for Cang Xuan's emotional health. Cang Xuan needs someone very different from Xiao Yao, to heal. Cang Xuan needs someone who can see him for what he is, and inform him, appreciate him and show him how that works, and let him feel as if he can rely on someone emotionally. He would do best with a female version of Xiao Yao's "father". Being brother-zoned was so tragic.

And it is good that Xiao Yao is lost to Cang Xuan, so he can grow and become emotionally healthy. But that's going to take quite some time. All of them need time. So in the end, they each got what they need, to move forward. It's the best ending possible, for each of them."

 Kokuto:

https://mydramalist.com/757669-lost-you-forever-season-2#comment-18082767

Some interesting points, for sure.

And elsewhere, blind YaoJing is blind.  Lord they just can't let go of Platonic Friendship Bug, can they?

Thank you, kokuto! I don't know how to copy direct posts. Also, lol at your question about Jing having XY's imagine imprinted on his eye. Clever :) looking forward to what jingers have to say too. 

 Kokuto:

On the bottom of the comments posts, next to the gift box, there are 3 dots.  If you click on that, a drop down menu will give an option to Share.  I don't know why there are two Share options, but one of them will give you a pop up box with a link that you can copy.

I wanted to add the link, cause there's more comments below that may be of interest.

Yes.  I can't wait to see the 'in depth analysis' on exactly what that means, too!

Thank you!!!

And lol, yes, although I have the feeling they will choose to ignore it. 

Compiled the schedules from various sources:

Eps10-11
Drama: (Hui Chun Clinic signboard) grand opening of the new Hui Chun clinic
XY: (bamboo scroll) Xiao Yao works on compiling medical texts
CX: (angry face, wine goblet) Xiao Yao throwing the wine goblet at Cang Xuan when she finds out about the war against Haoling
XL: (fish swimming into aquarium?) ???
FL: (running horse) Feng Long offers to join in the war against Gao Xin?

Eps12-13
Drama: (Xiyan and Haoling emblems) Xiyan - Haoling war
CX: (stars in the sky, sword) Cang Xuan rained stars down from the sky for Xiao Yao; war against Haoling
FL: (flag) Feng Long leads the Xiyan army against Haoling

Eps14-15
Drama: (peach blossom petals) Xiao Yao meets her mother in the peach forest?
XY: (peach blossom petals) Xiao Yao meets her mother in the peach forest?
CX: (hook)  ???
FL: (sword) Losing battle against Haoling

Ep16
Drama: (lips, the word 喜, broken heart) YaoJing makeout session, Cang Xuan marries A Nian, Xiang Liu's grief
CX: (Emperor's crown) Cang Xuan becomes Emperor of the Great Wilderness
FL: (sword) Losing battle against Haoling
XL: (santa Furball?) ????

To be honest, I have no clue what TJC's schedule implies - fish swimming into aquarium in Eps 10-11? The only significant Xiang Liu scene would be at the old Lirong donkey meat seller's place where he comforts Xiao Yao after she finds out she is Chi Chen's daughter, and gives her the 6-sided lantern with a description that puts things in perspective.  Not sure how does that translate to fish in aquarium.

And there definitely should still be Xiang Liu scenes in Eps12-15 - meeting Xiang Liu at the gambling den when he is in disguise (we have the BTS of that scene where he transforms his face multiple times). Also, Xiang Liu should have visited Chi Chen's home within these episodes, though this part might be different assuming they changed it to having A Heng and Xiao Yao meet at the peach blossom forest.

Ep16 should be the pearl scene based on the drama schedule - how does that equate to Furball (?) with a Santa hat?

Similarly, no idea what the hook in Eps14-15 mean for Cang Xuan either.

The surprise in the drama begins?