Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 blabla100:

he's more on the pragmatic side and from his POV it's more practical for XY to marry someone like Jing, than going after FFB, who may or may not live to see another day. So regardless of being biased or not, I'm sure he was being honest too.

Lie Chang is a man; a man like him doesn't understand jack about the reality of being a woman or what it's like to kowtow for the rest of your life to the wife and her offspring. Lie Chang benefits from that system so of course he could sit there and talk about how it's no big deal that Jing had "made a mistake". This person's character and his view on love and marriage were encapsulated by the comments that he made when he walked through the door. Perhaps, some women would prefer to be married and be the wife to a soldier than the concubine of a rich man. A man like Lie Chang's brain would probably explode at that thought :-)

Are there women out there for whom what Lie Chang said is the truth? Of course! Daughters of concubines or those without wealth and connections would probably see being the concubine of the Master of Qing Qui as an absolute dream. But XY was probably the highest-born woman in the land. For her to become Jing's concubine? Yeah, it's not at all a good thing for her. Granted Lie Chang didn't realise XY's identity when he started his bullshit. 

 blabla100:

I can understand her fear of being abandoned and the whole idea of instead of having and losing, she would rather not have at all, but her picking someone like Jing to spend her life with it's something that I can't comprehend. I mean I do understand that he was the only one who had the will or let's say the intention to at least try to grant her wish for a forever companion, but I don't know, personally Jing is such a turn off.

Look! We agree on another thing :-). You and me both. Jing has nothing but good intentions. When it comes to actual follow-through or competence, he flops harder than my attempt at running a marathon. Jing is so utterly offputting to me that I cannot get on board with the XY/Jing romance. Unfortunately, it isn't just Jing, but XY as well.  To me, the author wrote this romance in such a way that it makes both of these characters look like asshats. This "non-tragic" ending and the so-called "healing" thing that she is pushing with the drama for these two reaks to high heaven. 

 blabla100:

Probably a few years ago I'd have agree with whoever is calling XY a coward for not being brave enough to stay true to her heart, but maybe because I got older now I see things a bit differently and I get that she was tired of spending her life alone, so I am more tolerant with her.

I don't think she's a coward for being reluctant to choose XL. I do think that it is quite understandable. I just find her refusal to actually face her feelings and deal with the situation clearly and decisively cowardly. Her dragging other people into her mess is off-putting. I don't have a lot of tolerance for people who don't take responsibility or accountability. If you won't even be accountable for your feelings then you have failed yourself at the most basic level. 

And her wanting to spend her life with someone is also understandable. I mean, that isn't my life goal, but I know that it's the norm for many people - trauma or not. Unfortunately, the fact that this man is Jing just means that I see her choice as stemming from her unresolved trauma rather than something positive. I think you mentioned that if the author had written Jing differently, then it would be like XY loves Jing all along (something along that line) and I think you made a very good point. The author's choice to write Jing as this plot device with questionable character just reinforced the fact that XY's choice stemmed from her "psychological deficiencies" as she said in that interview. 

So ultimately, besides XL, this story doesn't work for me. I just see a female lead who couldn't overcome anything; just spent the entirety of the novel chasing her tail and ultimately ended up with the floppest man in the land. That ending. Jing, XY and their "romance" just left me going...

@HeadInTheClouds

In fact, rationally I understand why Xiang Liu did this, because Xiao Yao really wanted to marry Jing. It's just that it's a bit unbearable from my own perspective. Given the premise that Xiang Liu knows this girl loves him, he is really cruel! But of course, if I like Jing as much as Xiao Yao does (??), my feelings about this will definitely be different...

 AH :

That's my father's favourite saying about the benefits of suffering. Now I'm feeling for the poor doll <3

Don't feel too sorry for him, he's spoiled rotten! In exchange, he has to let me stick things into his hair. I think that's a pretty darn fair exchange. I told him that if he behaved himself, I might get him his own little girlfriend.  She can deal with his grumpiness :-)

 AH :

Numerous occasions? That sounds rough. That's a lot of character-building to endure for a kid :(

That's the reality of growing up in a developing country. It wasn't so bad because I could see others going through one thing or another around me. I don't know if it built character, but it helped build my immune system. I'm as healthy as an ox and rarely take ill ̣(knock on wood ). And I have an iron gut. I think I've caught all the bacteria and viruses that are out there as a child, so now they just run off at the sight of me :-)

 AH :

I keep my hair down most of the time, but this is one of the main reasons I keep it pretty long now. The length creates weight that keeps it more contained.

This sounds like one of my friends. She always asked her hairdresser to thin it out for her because it's so heavy and difficult to manage. The good news is that you'll have plenty of hair to spare once you start losing it due to old age :-). It comes to all of us. Everything has a trade-off.

 AH :

I've had that thought occasionally on frustrating hair days, but it sounds like you already have ideal, no-fuss hair! Treasure it!!

The funny thing is that as a kid, I always wished for wavy/curly hair and resented my dead straight locks. It's impossible to style my hair because it tends to slip out of everything and curls will un-curled themselves after a couple of hours, if that. But now, I'm just thankful that I don't have to go through the effort. Curls are beautiful, but they seem like a nightmare to manage successfully. 

 ZYHLJ:

I understand why Xiang Liu did this, because Xiao Yao really wanted to marry Jing. It's just that it's a bit unbearable from my own perspective. Given the premise that Xiang Liu knows this girl loves him, he is really cruel! But of course, if I like Jing as much as Xiao Yao does (??), my feelings about this will definitely be different...

Does XY really want to marry Jing? Let's take a look at XY's dialog with XL after he snatched her from her wedding with FL.

相柳问：“你愿意嫁给丰隆吗？”

Xiang Liu asked: "Are you willing to marry Feng Long?"

小夭的表情呆滞，软绵绵地回答：“不愿意。”

Xiao Yao's expression was somber and she replied softly: "I'm not willing."

相柳问：“你愿意嫁给璟吗？”

Xiang Liu asked: "Are you willing to marry Jing?"

小夭的表情出现了变化，她好像挣扎着要醒来，相柳的眼睛光芒更甚，声音越发柔和地问：“你愿意嫁给叶十七吗？”

Xiao Yao's expression changed, and she seemed to be struggling to wake up. Xiang Liu's eyes shone even brighter, and his voice became softer as he asked, "Are you willing to marry Ye Shi Qi?

小夭喃喃说：“愿意。”

Xiao Yao murmured: "I'm willing."

一个问题就在嘴边，可相柳竟然犹豫不决，一瞬后，他问道：“你最想和谁相伴一生？”

A question was on his lips, but Xiang Liu was hesitant. After a moment, he asked: "Who do you most want to spend your life with?"

小夭张口，像是要回答，可她的表情非常抗拒，意志在拒绝回答。

Xiao Yao opened her mouth as if she wanted to answer, but her expression was very resistant, willfully refusing to answer.

There's a difference between 想 (xiǎng) - want and 愿意 (yuànyì) - willing. XY is willing to marry Jing for companionship, but I'm not convinced she wanted to marry Jing. If XY really wanted to marry Jing, she wouldn't have taken 42 years to complete medical texts after their initial engagement before finally agreeing to set a wedding date. There was no reason she couldn't have worked on the medical texts after marrying Jing.

Does XL strongly suspect XY has deep feelings for him? All signs point to yes. Otherwise, why would he go through such lengths to temper her expectations and to distance himself from her? Is it cruel of XL to deny XY the knowledge of his true feelings for her for her own good? Yes, it is, and it's also somewhat hypocritical because in the scene above, XL clearly wants XY to confirm that her feelings for him are deeper than her feelings for Jing.

That being said, XY's refusal to answer XL's question and confirm her feelings for him might also be attributed to deliberately being cruel to him for his own good. While fear of rejection may be a part of the reason XY refuses to answer, I don't believe it's the sole reason. Despite her outward denial, I believe XY suspects XL has feelings for her. However, knowing that XL cannot prioritize being with her over his other obligations, she refrains from burdening him with guilt by unequivocally confessing her feelings for him.

XL and XY, yep, they're two peas in a pod.

 ZYHLJ:

Also, because of your encouragement, I started writing another LYF fanfic, a date between Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao, light comedy style, haha! After I finish it, I may open a separate thread for LYF fanfics. Everyone is welcome to come to create ~ 

That is wonderful news indeed and I look forward to you sharing it. A fanfic thread sounds great too, and you will find an eager audience in me.

 ZYHLJ:

I have read both 云中歌 and 大漠谣 and I like them very much~ The third part in this series is called 解忧曲, which seems to tell the story of Liu Jieyou, a princess from the Han Dynasty who married to the Wusun Kingdom to help her country solve the problem of the Huns. But it also seems to be in a state of never being completed... I don't know why Tong Hua stopped writing ancient romances (could it be because of censorship issues?), this is obviously her best field. I haven't read 散落星河的记忆 yet, but I also have seen some Xiang Liu in Meng Jue... By the way, Meng Jue is also a character I like very much:-) 

Thank you so much for sharing the excerpt for 解忧曲. When was the excerpt shared? 云中歌 was published  Sep 2007, which meant it is almost 17 years and 解忧曲 has not been published. Do you know whether she actually finished the book? The talk about censorship could be a reason - even the drama adaptation of 大漠谣 Ballad of the Desert had to be dubbed twice to change character names etc; while 云中歌 Love Yunge from the Desert, while retaining the character names changed details related to historical figures from 大漠谣. 

Is there any indication she intends to revisit it (though I would definitely prefer she gave us the prequel and sequel to LYF first!)? I know that Tong Hua appears to be more involved in scriptwriting and production these days, so that seems like a pipedream.  However, a few days ago, I heard news that one of my all time favourite kdramas Signal is finally confirmed for a S2 - after 8 long years! In between that time, scriptwriter Kim Eun Hee had been busy with so many other works (4 dramas, 1 TV movie, 1 movie). But now she's come back to Signal once more. So while it's coming to 11 years now for LYF, but at least there is some hope, right? Right? 

In the meantime, please release LYF S2 already so that I can finally move on (perhaps).

 liddi:

However, a few days ago, I heard news that one of my all time favourite kdramas Signal is finally confirmed for a S2 - after 8 long years! In between that time, scriptwriter Kim Eun Hee had been busy with so many other works (4 dramas, 1 TV movie, 1 movie). But now she's come back to Signal once more. So while it's coming to 11 years now for LYF, but at least there is some hope, right? Right?

I couldn't believe it when Kok said there were plans for a second season of Signal!! Then I saw the article here on MDL! I hope they keep the same cast. That cliffhanger!!!

I'm lucky to only have waited one year (I watched season 1 last March), but still, didn't even think it was possible to have a continuation.

Keep praying Liddi!!

 blimarch:

Of course, all this thinking is based on the fact that WXL would be willing to regain a feminine form, which is pretty much hinted seeing what occured in Dragon Bone Prison between her and YSQ/TSJ.

WXL was not willing to expose a feminine form to XL as evidenced by WXL's refusal to do just that after being injured in Chapter 6 foiling XL's attempt to kill CX. When XL implied that he suspected WXL was a female, WXL fervently denied it.

WXL was willing to regain a feminine form and commit to starting a relationship with TSJ because:

1. TSJ wasn't CX and her bloodline's enemy.
2. XY wasn't romantically attracted to TSJ so she didn't view it as a threat that TSJ would enter into her dreams (she would fall passionately in love with him).
3. XY believed TSJ would always put her first so she wouldn't have to worry about him abandoning her.

Regardless of whether XL confessed to WXL, XL spectacularly failed every single one of the above criteria.

 Kokuto:

I think part of it was this was the first time that XL was in love, so he wasn't sure of how to proceed.  But also, remember, WXL is male and refused to admit being a woman to XL.

XL was in love for the first time, but so was WXL/XY. It's even more true for WXL/XY. Anything that might justify XL's attitude in admitting/declaring his love is even more justifiable for WXL/XY.

At this point, XL has already spent several hundred years as FFB, a consumate playboy. His lifestyle included romanticizing women. He was experienced enough to distinguish between feelings and understand the nuances of "liking". He is the first to realize that he fell in love.

On the contrary, WXL/XY spent a very large part of her tough life as a male, being surrounded by men while denying her feminity. Her approach of all things related to love is very practical (as a healer specialized in infertility) and macho-like (as we see in the way she dealt with MZ and CZ's mariages), not at all romantic. 

WXL/XY was even less likely to know how to handle her feelings already when she was a male, but even more so when she became a female again. Especially at the time in Gao Xing chapter 13: she had only just retrieve her female body/state of mind and reconnect with her family. How can XL expect a positive and sound reaction from an overwhelmed XY forced to kiss and threatened to be drowned? Why did XL decided that this very reaction from XY was her sincere, ultimate and unchangeable word about what she felt about him? How could XL decided on the spot that this only moment would decide the fate of the rest of their relationship and act upon it without even explaining to XY the meaning of whatever just happened?

 Kokuto:

It may have looked like an underwater stroll, but they were actually running from the Haolin sea guards.

 Kokuto:

Again, there was no time right after he got the bug, cause they were running from the Haolin guards.  He was just experiencing the Lovers Bug himself, so it's not like he got the Bug and instantly knew how to use it and what all these feeling were.  Intellectually, he knew that WXL loved him, but clearly, WXL wasn't showing or admitting that at all -- in part because he was in disguise and a man.  WXL didn't know about the bugs, so even if he acknowledged those feelings, he's not going to admit them to XL.  Not only does WXL not go first, but he doesn't know how XL feels.... and they are both men.

One does not preclude the other. It "didn’t fe[lt] like they were on the run" and XL "did not rush him along", and WXL being "really happy" "never felt in danger". This "escape from the guards" while holding hands and (air-)kissing surrounded by the spectacular wonders of the ocean doesn't scream "it's just an action scene" for anybody.  Not even for WXL who "secretly" recorded that moment with her precious mirror. In the drama, there's an interesting depiction of this scene: when XL who is watching lovingly WXL is caught in the act by her, he pretends like nothing happened while WXL is taken aback and stare at him in a new way. What a missed opportunity for XL.

Another missed opportunity: to round off this special evening that began in the ocean and ended in the just as romantic atmosphere of the sky, XL could have seized the chance and confessed. Either XL could just have revealed the truth about the Lover's Bug and in doing so, kill 2 birds with 1 stone: show to WXL an irrefutable proof that she is a woman and that she is in love with him. Or either, XL could have just confessed his feelings and said that he knew she is a woman and that he is prepared to wait until she is ready to accept his feelings. It worked for TSJ, why not for him? WXL wouldn't have to answer him immediately and it would give her time to think things over and sort out her feelings for him. XL didn't have much to lose apart from putting up with a cringeworthy moment and getting off his high horse of his dignified general persona.

 solarlunareclipse:

WXL was willing to regain a feminine form and commit to starting a relationship with TSJ because:

TSJ wasn't CX and her bloodline's enemy.

From the moment WXL chose not to reveal her true identity and follow CX, there was no indication that she wasn't open for a new start in life. She was determined to have her own life, rather like at the end of the novel when she distances herself from her family.

Besides, CX returned to Haoling, far from any eventual attempts to kill him. Moreover, CX had not yet entered the race for power and had no influence. And the situation with the Resistance Army was not to lead to XL and CX crossing paths any time soon. So, "as long as he [didn't] shoot [CX] with an arrow", WXL could be with him.

But I'd really like to better understand your view on this point, if you have time to provide more arguments because I think that these 2 views are valid.