Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 solarlunareclipse:

It seems reasonable the FFB may have wanted XY to sense him pointing an arrow at CX. Why he would have done this can be open for interpretation. I think his reason for doing this would have been in line with his reason for letting her see him leave with the dancer during their first meeting at the dance hall. Possible interpretations include:

He wanted to let her know that he isn't a suitable relationship candidate because he was unreliable and was on opposing sides with CX. This means XL had already closed the door for any committed relationship at this point. This seems to be in line with your interpretation. This was also my original interpretation of these events, but I'm finding this interpretation less satisfying these days.
He knew that she would suspect him of being XL and wanted to show her (a) that FFB wasn't pressuring her to be in a committed relationship by leaving with the dancer and (b) that she shouldn't be concerned with FFB hurting CX because he aborted the shooting for her. This means XL wanted XY to get to know him better as FFB and was leaving the door open for XY to choose to be in a committed relationship with him down the line.
I think it's up to each individual to choose which is the more satisfying interpretation for them. I'm currently finding (2) to be the more compelling interpretation since it makes the evolution of their relationship more dynamic and full of possibilities. To me, it makes for a much more static, uninteresting story if XL appointed himself to be her guardian angel as soon as he discovered her identity and she told him she found him unsuitable to walk into her dreams.

Apart from other purposes it may have served, FFB nearly assassinating CX with his archery in XY's presence also helped create a starting point that XL/FFB could use to get XY to agree to have him show her his archery and then agree to have him teach it to her. It even got XY to be the one to bring up archery to FFB first, allowing XL to completely hide the fact that teaching her archery was something that he wanted to do to help her address the fact that she had no means to protect herself, as she told him in their first meeting back in QS town. 

-----

Chapter 16:

Xiao Yao walked out and saw Fang Feng Bei. She couldn’t resist and used her bug to sense him but still got no response.

Fang Feng Bei smiled as he walked over. “Delivering something?”

Xiao Yao smiled at him and he asked, “You still remember me, yes?”

Xiao Yao walked off. “You should stay away from me, when I see you I want to poison you.”

Fang Feng Bei followed her. “You find that friend of yours that distasteful?

She found Xiang Liu distasteful? Of course not. Likely he’s the one who found her distasteful.

Xiao Yao asked, “Why are you following me?” That meeting in the garden, he likely didn’t know who she was, but now he had to know.

“I’m bored. I can see you’re bored. Two people bored together is better than one.”

That night, the spectre of death radiating from the tip of his arrow, Xiao Yao still remembered it vividly. She sneered, “What are you doing here in Xuan Yuan Castle? Not here to be bored?”

Fang Feng Bei chuckled. “All the things I came to do in Xuan Yuan Castle can’t see the light of day and have to wait until night. I really am supremely bored during the day.”

Xiao Yao was speechless – this guy’s personality was diametrically opposite to his little sister, he was so blatant it was refreshing. “I hear your entire family are crack archers?”

“Yup.”

“Who is better between you and your little sister?”

“Her.”

“Better to what degree?”

“You want to see my archery skills?”

“Yes!”

“Then follow me!”

 AH :

Apart from other purposes it may have served, FFB nearly assassinating CX with his archery in XY's presence also helped create a starting point that XL/FFB could use to get XY to agree to have him show her his archery and then agree to have him teach it to her. It even got XY to be the one to bring up archery to FFB first, allowing XL to completely hide the fact that teaching her archery was something that he wanted to do to help her address the fact that she had no means to protect herself, as she told him in their first meeting back in QS town. 

Good insight!

 liddi:

EDIT: I noticed that the Chinese text you quoted from Vol 3 Ch17 (Chapter 50) refers to her as "茱萸姨“. Yet in other chapters, she was referred to as 朱萸姨. Is this from the original 2013 text or was there a typo from the web version? Certainly my 2023 physical copy consistently refers to Zhu Yu as  朱萸姨, not 茱萸姨. So it may be possible that the glaring inconsistencies were just due to typos during publication. Not for the first time, I wish I had the physical copy of the original 2013 version for comparison. Just placed an order for the 2013 edition - can't wait!

For the Mandarin text that I quoted from chapter 50, I used this source: https://www.kanunu8.com/book5/changxiangsi3/5706.html 

I'm not sure whether that text matches up with the 2013 edition of the novel or later editions. 

 liddi:

The novel itself only refers to the plant three times - twice in Vol 1 Ch15, and once in Vol 3 Ch17 (Chapter 50). It is noteworthy that in Chapter 50, the text says this:

玱玹别过了脸，走到大伯的墓前跪下，给大伯磕了三个头，又给墓旁的茱萸磕了三个头。紧接着，他开始清理野草。小夭擦干眼泪，走了过去，跪下磕头，磕完头，擦拭墓碑。

Cang Xuan turned away, walked over to Eldest Uncle's grave and knelt down to bow three times. He then bowed another three times to the dogwood plant beside the grave. Following which, he started clearing away the weeds. Xiao Yao wiped her tears and walked over. After kneeling down, she bowed, and started wiping the tombstone.

-- Vol 3 Ch17  (Chapter 50)

Also, there were only six graves - Grandmother (Xie Zhu); Eldest Uncle (Qing Yang); Eldest Aunt (Yun Sang); Second Uncle (Yun Ze); Fourth Uncle (Zhong Yi) and Aunt (Chang Pu)'s joint grave; and A Heng.

There was no grave for Zhu Yu. As such, what Cang Xuan and Xiao Yao bowed to was the dogwood plant beside Qing Yang's grave, not her grave.

This came up a while ago in this thread, because Koala's translation created the wrong impression that they were bowing to Zhu Yu's grave and I was confused. Your explanation is consistent with the explanation that was provided before. I'm sorry there have been so many different points of discussion I lost track of exactly who provided the explanation the first time, but it was appreciated!

 liddi:

It would definitely help to have some form of gauge based on Lie Yang and A Bi's timeline to cultivating a human form. If I am not mistaken, Lie Yang successfully cultivated to human form in the course of Once Promised itself, so perhaps there would be some indication there. Yet another impetus for me to read it properly, which I have started doing, but the progress is slow thus far.

Ooh yes if you find details that provide a timeline please do share them!

 liddi:

From Furball and Yuan Yuan, it would imply that cultivation takes more than 300 years. I do not know whether Xiang Liu's mount in the excerpt from the prequel 千方相  was referring to Furball (it had black feathers and white wings as opposed to Furball, a white condor). Assuming it was, then it would mean that cultivation takes more than 400 years, seeing Furball has still not obtained its human form yet. Either way, it certainly supports that fact that Xiang Liu is significantly older than the rest of the characters in LYF.

Do you think the power, health and discipline of an individual demon might play a role in how quickly they are able to cultivate a human form?

I'm wondering if Yuan Yuan not cultivating a human form after 310+ years might reflect the fact that Yuan Yuan's power level was only at a certain level, and maybe a more powerful bird demon like Lie Yang would have cultivated a human form in that amount of time?

So maybe XL could have cultivated a human form within a relatively short timeframe (given his power level), even if Mao Qiu and Yuan Yuan weren't able to do the same?

 AH :

Lie Yang's circumstances also seem relevant. His human form was still that of a 10 year old human child when XY ran away from Jade Mountain, and he must have been way older than 80 by that time.

Whereas XY (a deity and not a demon, so not quite the same) was as tall as an 8 year old human girl in the period after she ran away from Jade Mountain, when she was over 80 years old. 

 liddi:

 AH :
So going by the novel, rather than the drama, and the idea that XL's human form would have been that of a young man rather than a child (like Lie Yang's human form when XY ran away from Jade Mountain) when he escaped, I would guess that XL was something like 150 or 200 when he escaped.
However, we still need to take into account the years that he required to attain human form. Remember that Xiao Yao was born with human form, so her 80 years that is equivalent to an 8 year old, would be calculated from birth. Xiang Liu on the other hand, required a cultivation period, before taking on human form. If it is true that cultivation takes more than 300 years, then won't he have already been at least more than 400 years when he escaped?

Yes, XY's height at a particular age isn't a good benchmark to compare with demon human forms. That's why I didn't reference her in my conclusion about XL and only referenced Lie Yang, who also had to cultivate a human form.  

I didn't mean to cause confusion by referencing XY's age and height earlier in my post. I just thought it was interesting that Lie Yang's human form at that time looked slightly older than XY. Like maybe if Lie Yang was 20% older than XY then it would make sense that his human form (which hadn't reached maturity) looked 20% older than XY (when she also hadn't reached maturity and stopped aging). Although that logic would only make sense if a demon's human form, at the time that it first manifested, corresponded with the demon's age at the time (but with a growth rate similar to a deity and not a mortal human), rather than starting from the form of a human newborn. But I feel like I'm overthinking and overcomplicating this. ^^

Regardless, I feel like we just don't have enough information to draw solid conclusions about how old XL was when he cultivated his human form, when he entered the death match arena, and when he escaped from it. We have to come up with assumptions first (e.g., his human form was not a child and he was probably at least x years old when he cultivated his human form) and then make rough estimates. But hopefully your read of Once Promised will provide more clues so we can come up with better estimates!

 liddi:

 AH :
King of the Seas. Unbeatable in the mountains outside of QS town. And able to break through Sheng Nong Mountain's defences by air as a one-man army when he flew in on Mao Qiu.
YES. And it just hurts so much more that he would be the one to fade away into nothingness.

That's an interesting perspective. I had never thought of XL's ending as a particularly powerful person fading away into nothingness. 

Physically, he left quite a mark on the island where he made his last stand. I imagine that mark remaining for a very long time, possibly thousands of years, like it did in my fic. 

And a peak of Sheng Nong mountain will be restricted and used only as a final resting place for his comrades' remains because of him. Although I don't love that the drama seems to be putting extra emphasis on that and changing the timeline for its implementation, I do think it's still a noteworthy and lasting part of his legacy. 

In terms of his reputation, his greatest enemies (e.g., Ru Shou and CX) respected him and his ending, and his less powerful and less enlightened enemies who wanted to desecrate his remains were denied the opportunity to do so. 

There were a handful of people who knew him and weren't part of the Sheng Nong remnant army or the Xuan Yuan army who had some insight into his character and what he did for XY (e.g., Ah Bi, Ah Nian and TSJ) who also respected him and what he had done. 

It's not clear whether Gong Gong and Mao Qiu survived the final battle or not, but if either of them did they certainly would have mourned and remembered him. He played such a pivotal role in their lives.

And then there's XY. Mirror or no mirror, I don't think it would be possible for her to truly forget XL. He will live on her memories, her skills, and in her blood and her resulting abilities. And she will unknowingly carry his doll and well-wishes with her for the rest of her life. 

With his level of power and 8 extra lives to spare, XL could have had almost anything (wealth, power, women)... if he wanted them and was willing to abandon his principles to obtain them. But ultimately he was above those things, which I view as a credit to him and a positive legacy. I prefer a character and an ending like his over powerful characters like the Yellow Emperor and CX, who conquered and ruled kingdoms and whose names will be remembered for millennia, but who used their marriages and family members to achieve their ambition and started wars in the name of peace.

And on a meta level, as a character, his memory will live on the minds of millions of readers and viewers for a very, very long time. 

 AH :

Do you think the power, health and discipline of an individual demon might play a role in how quickly they are able to cultivate a human form?

I'm wondering if Yuan Yuan not cultivating a human form after 310+ years might reflect the fact that Yuan Yuan's power level was only at a certain level, and maybe a more powerful bird demon like Lie Yang would have cultivated a human form in that amount of time?

So maybe XL could have cultivated a human form within a relatively short timeframe (given his power level), even if Mao Qiu and Yuan Yuan weren't able to do the same?

I think the nature of demon (type of beast, health) capability of cultivation and maybe the original spiritual power are crucial factors which determine how quickly she/he obtain human form. And only certain type of beasts who had ability of cultivation. Yuan Yuan and Furball might remain as powerful birds for the rest of their life.

Lie Yang and Ah Bi were both kind of divine beasts (not normal one). I don't remember if their ages were mentioned in Once Promised. The timeline in Once Promised that I can recall as following

-Chi You saw Ah Heng the first time in the forest when he was chased by Zhurong about 200 years before their first official encounter. 

• Ah Heng and Chi You met on the way to fired mountain and shortly after that Ah Heng got almost killed and saved by Shao Hao. He brought her to Jade Mountain
• Chi You heard about Ah Heng's death. Later he came to Jade mountain on accasion of Peach Banquet in order to steal the bow which was believed to help people search for disapeared person. Ah Heng helped him to cover the case and got 60 year staying in Jade Mountain as punishment
• Thus Lie Yang and Ah Bi joined in their story during this 60 years. It was not clear how old were them but they seemed to be unmatured. By staying in Jade Mountain, Lie Yang, Ah Bi ate many super food (Ah Heng fed Ah Bi her blood to save him too). 
• After 60 years in Jade Mountain, Shao Hao picked Ah Heng up and brought her back to Xuan Yuan. Ah Heng and Chi You's love story went on for some time (some years) before she got married to Shao Hao. Then 3 years passed, Chi you and she met reunioned. But she died shortly after that by getting burnt by Zhurong's flame and falling into Yu Yuan (where the sun goes down in the myths). Lie Yang fell into Yu Yuan with Ah Heng and died. 
• 200 years pass and a jade/stone containing her soul was found in Tang Gorge (where the sun rises in the myths). Chi You resurrected her in the Ghost Maze arranged by Yellow emperor. Lie Yang was resurrected together with Ah Heng. His human form remained as a boy-looked guy because he had died at young age before. XY was born about 5 years after that. And the last battle happened when she was about 10 years old.

Thus Ah Bi by the time XY was brought to Jade mountain was above 280 years old.

When a demon got human form, their appearance would match their age. 

One demon turned to human form in Once Promised is Zhu Yu. I don't remember how long that Qing Yang kept the wooden stick next to him. 

---------

XL told XY that when he escaped from the death arena and got injured, Gong Gong wanted to bring him to see Yan Emperor for treatment. That means that moment was  before Ah Heng got married to Shao Hao (because of  Yan emperor's death, Chi You could not come to their appointment in Bai Li). He was young man when he escaped the death arena. I think demonic aging  or XL's aging might be comparable with high class deity like XY or CX. Thus, he was probably a few hundred years old as young man (at least 180-200 years old). 

 H19279:

When a demon got human form, their appearance would match their age. 

 H19279:

Thus, he was probably a few hundred years old as young man (at least 180-200 years old). 

Thank you so much for all the insights into the events of Once Promised! I did not realise that A Heng died multiple times and fell into 虞渊 Yu Abyss with Lie Yang. From what you are saying, the Yellow Emperor knew how to resurrect the dead using the Ghost Maze? Or was Chi Chen the one who had the knowledge? What was the criteria? Was it an intact soul, or just a fragment that was in the jade stone? Did Chi Chen require the physical body to be available as well?

 H19279:

I think the nature of demon (type of beast, health) capability of cultivation and maybe the original spiritual power are crucial factors which determine how quickly she/he obtain human form. And only certain type of beasts who had ability of cultivation. Yuan Yuan and Furball might remain as powerful birds for the rest of their life.

And yet Zhu Yu also also obtained human form. Was it because of the spiritual energy Qing Yang transferred? 

 liddi:

 H19279:
I think the nature of demon (type of beast, health) capability of cultivation and maybe the original spiritual power are crucial factors which determine how quickly she/he obtain human form. And only certain type of beasts who had ability of cultivation. Yuan Yuan and Furball might remain as powerful birds for the rest of their life.
And yet Zhu Yu also also obtained human form. Was it because of the spiritual energy Qing Yang transferred? 

I think so. He always kept the wooden stick by his body. Thus it could absorb the spritual power from him as well as from surronding environment wherever he went to. 

 H19279:

Chi You came in first and he overcame/broke the challenges inside the maze before Shao Hao came to the last challenge.

Thank you for the further details!

In the 200 years that she was dead, did Chi Chen try to find her? He certainly did not lose the will to live. Yet when she was resurrected and lost part of her memories, as he was trying to introduce himself to her again, he was not actually certain who he was in her heart. Had they not worked out the relationship by then? But wasn't he already her lover at the time?

I really need to find the time to sit down and read it properly...