Elise:
Kitty, I think we both started the war oops. Ah well at least it's not in the public comments section.

Haha RIP.

Well now that there's already a war, I just wanted to post this scene from the leaked script that made me feel things. I'm not that good at translating but anyway...


[Context: Lirong Chang is talking to Tushan Jing after Fang Feng Bei took Xiaoyao away from her wedding with Fenglong]


Lirong Chang: Your sweetheart was abducted by Fang Feng Bei. It's that Fang Feng Bei. Why don't you go look for her in that place?
Lirong Chang leaves on his own initiative after speaking


Tushan Jing is looking out the window, lost in thought
Tushan Jing's Spirit Foxy suddenly appears, anxiously pointing outside, signaling for Tushan Jing to go find Xiaoyao
Tushan Jing: You want me to go find her?
Spirit Foxy is anxiously making gestures
Tushan Jing: Are you worried that if I don't look for her, she will leave with someone else?
Spirit Foxy nods immediately, but Tushan Jing looks out the window without moving
Tushan Jing: Many years ago, because I only wanted to be with Xiaoliu, I took advantage of her soft-heartedness. I didn't give her a chance to choose between me and Xiang Liu. However, in the end, I didn't give her happiness. Now... I give her the chance to choose. I owe her this.
Spirit Foxy calms down and looks at the sickly Tushan Jing

 Elise:
Sorry, I used the wrong words. I didn't mean hate, I meant criticize ??? I think I made some people mad saying "hate". Sorry ?Of course we can criticize any characters, say our opinions about them.

Why are you saying sorry? Isn't this Xiang Liu's thread? Are we supposed to be quiet here too? You can write whatever you want, we're only discussing fictional characters. Say what you need to say!

 kitty_momo:
To be honest, I don't even feel like the story of XY's parents is that much of a tragedy, to the point where everyone would keep saying "we have to make sure that kind of tragedy never happens again".  XY's parents don't even consider their own story to be a tragedy, but everyone else does for some reason. Sure, in the end XY became an orphan, but that's not because her parents had opposing stances. She became an orphan purely just because there was a war, and even if her parents were both from Xiyan they might both have died. Maybe I'm missing something.

In Once Promised, Shao Hao was a prince of Gao Xing who later becomes the Grand Emperor we know in Lost You Forever. He and Ah Heng's eldest brother (Qing Yang, the crown prince of Xuan Yuan) met when their identities were hidden and became the closest of friends. They agreed to have Shao Hao get engaged to Ah Heng shortly after she was born (she was 1000 years younger than him) for their mutual protection. Shao Hao promised Qing Yang that he would take good care of Ah Heng and Chang Yi (Qing Yang and Ah Heng's fourth brother / Cang Xuan's father). Ah Heng agreed to go through with her wedding to Shao Hao despite her feelings for Qi Yo (feelings that were already so strong that she was willing to give herself lethal poison that even the Voodoo King could not cure just to obtain a cure for Qi Yo) to protect her mother and brothers. Qi Yo wasn't powerful enough to stop the wedding. That part on its own was already tragic. 

Ah Heng and Qi Yo had a promise to meet each other once a year every April under the cherry blossom trees for as long as Qi Yo wore the red robe that Ah Heng made for him (so, for the rest of their lives if he chose it). When Ah Heng kept that promise for the first time after her marriage, Qi Yo was prevented from meeting her because of a magical barrier that was erected when the Flame Emperor died. The next year, they were prevented from meeting again due to a misunderstanding (Qi Yo sent his winged ride ahead to bring the robe to their meeting place, but Ah Heng mistook this to mean that Qi Yo would not be coming). More tragedy.

I'm not sure of the exact order of events because their story has not been fully translated and I've only read snippets, but Ah Heng's ninth brother (born from a different mother: Consort Tong Yu, the Yellow Emperor's third wife) prevented re-enforcements from saving her fourth brother when he was trapped in Ju Mountain. Ah Heng begged Shao Hao to help her save her brother and even cut off her pinky finger to make a blood oath to him (he wears that finger bone as a ring thereafter in Lost You Forever), but he refused to help her. Qi Yo came to help her, but was only able to give Ah Heng "half his strength". Her fourth brother died, along with thousands of Xuan Yuan soldiers. It was the willingness of those soldiers to die trying to save her brother that gave Ah Heng the resolve to lead the Xuan Yuan army and fight and die for Xuan Yuan. At that point she had lost so much already. Four brothers (three born from the same mother, and one born from a different mother who was a close childhood friend), her sister-in-law (Cang Xuan's mother), and her mother. She had divorced Shao Hao and killed her ninth brother. And she had seen the destruction wrought on the people of Xuan Yuan because of the war. There was already so much tragedy.

In the end, Ah Heng and Qi Yo resolve their misunderstandings and know that they love each other and have never forsaken each other. They could have taken Xiao Yao and run away to live together. But their loyalties forced them to face each other on the battlefield. By fighting, Qi Yo remained loyal to the Flame Emperor, he kept his promise to Prince Wang Yu, and he kept the blood oath that he made with his 81 comrades to protect Sheng Nong. By fighting, Ah Heng protected the Xuan Yuan kingdom, the Xuan Yuan army, and the Xuan Yuan people. She finally brought the destructive war to an end, and also secured a promise from her father that he would protect Zhuan Xu and have him inherit the kingdom that she was protecting for him.

In the final battle, Shao Hao uses water-based powers and Qi Yo uses earth-based powers. Their battle creates a flood that threatened to drown all of the Xuan Yuan soldiers on lower ground. To save the Xuan Yuan army, Ah Heng awakened the sun power inside of her and became a walking sun, using the heat to evaporate the flood. But she loses control and the sun power ends up incinerating her body and turning her goddess spirit into a monster. 

Qi Yo walked towards Ah Heng. Her consciousness was being consumed by the sun power and her body could not endure the heat. She was a walking ball of heat with no consciousness left, only walking forward and burning up everything in her path.

Under the red peach blossom petals she thought she saw Qi Yo standing there, tall and proud waiting for her under the peach blossom tree!

She didn’t know where she was or what happened to her but she felt this happiness rise. It was like when they first met under the peach blossom tree, was this another year and another peach blossom festival again? Could they finally be together forever now?

Qi Yo smiled at her and reached out his hand towards her. She smiled and walked towards him but didn’t know why she was so tired, so tired as if she walked thousands of miles. Her heart hurt so much she just wanted to curl up in Qi Yo’s arm and go to sleep.

She smiled and reached out for Qi Yi, wanting to take his hand and finally hold onto her happiness.

But she saw in horror that the earth was splitting apart under Qi Yo’s feet and his skin was burning while his hand blackened and shrivelled up like a bone.

“Ah Heng, don’t worry! Come here!” Qi Yo still smiled at her and reached out his hand.

She retreated in fear. It was her! It was actually her doing this. What did she turn into?

She touched herself and felt not a strand of hair on her hair. Her skin was blackened and split while there wasn’t a piece of whole flesh left on her body. She had become the world’s most frightening monster.

She curled inward and backed up while crying but no tears would come out because she was completely dried up. She had lost even the ability to cry.

“Ah Heng, do you still remember? I told you once that if you turn into a demon then I will become a demon with you!”

Qi Yo tried desperately to get closer to her but she kept running away.

Qi Yo plaintively cried out for her “Ah Heng, don’t run away from me! I’m not scared of you!”

But I’m scared, scared that a hideous monster like me would burn you up. Ah Heng kept longingly staring at Qi Yo while sadly backing away.

Qi Yo saw the pain Ah Heng was in and it was worse than a thousand knives cutting into his heart. They loved each other so much yet they couldn’t even get close to each other. Was there anything crueler than this in the entire world?

Ah Heng continues to run from Qi Yo until she reaches their home in Jiu Li. She doesn't want to harm their home. To reassure her, Qi Yo splits his own wrists and uses his blood to protect that place from the effects of her sun power. Then he summons Pan Gu's bow (a meaningful item from their past) from their home. The bow has no arrow, only an inscription: "My heart for your heart". Qi Yo can't get close to Ah Heng because he would be incinerated before he reached her. Qi Yo used Pan Gu's bow to force Ah Heng's heart (and its destructive power) out and replace it with his own. 

Ah Heng cried out in pain as her heart felt like it was being ripped asunder and something forcefully shoved inside. She clutched her chest in pain as slowly the heat began to disperse.

Qi Yo painfully clutched his chest and sank to his knees but his head remained raised and staring intently at Ah Heng.

Gradually the incredible power force inside of her diminished and her eyes lost its red glow and she regained her consciousness.

In the rain of peach blossom petals, Qi Yo kneeled on the ground with one hand on his chest and one hand reaching out for Ah Heng as he tenderly called her “Ah Heng, come here.”

Ah Heng stared at him before stumbling forward and Qi Yo used all his strength to get up and stumble towards her. In the hundreds of miles of peach blossoms and under the petal rain, he and she were finally meeting under the peach blossom tree.

Qi Yo smiled and pulled Ah Heng into his arms tightly as she nestled in his embrace with a happy smile. Then she realized something was wrong and it wasn’t the same as before, she could hear his strong heartbeat but his chest was cold rather than burning hot with power like before.

Ah Heng looked up in horror at Qi Yo as he smiled down at her with all the love in his eyes. She gradually realized what he did, the Ancient Bow’s “my heart for your heart” was just that – he used his heart to exchange for her heart which had been destroyed by the sun’s power.

Qi Yo had no heart anymore……he was dying!

Ah Heng is prepared to die with Qi Yo then and there, with the two of them finally together forever and at peace. But Qi Yo makes Ah Heng promise to live on so that she can meet Xiao Yao and the man she decides to marry when she is grown and to tell her not to be ashamed of her parents. That they love her and did nothing wrong for her to be ashamed of. Ah Heng reluctantly agrees. 

Ah Heng carries Qi Yo on her back and walks back to the battlefield, recollecting their past meetings until he dies. Ah Heng then sees the spirit of her other sister-in-law (the wife of her eldest brother, who was a princess of Sheng Nong) and realizes that she has committed suicide. Ah Heng laments her promise, so Qi Yo sends her a message.

They grew up together and spent all their time on Cao Yun Peak as close as two real sisters. They shared their secrets and worries and when their mothers got sick and died they both did their filial mourning together in support.

“Jie Jie.”

Ah Heng’s tears fell even harder and she really wanted to close her eyes and lock all the blood and death out. But she couldn’t do it. Qi Yo laid by her side with an arrogant smile at the corner of his lips, still forever proud and forthright. He looked so alive she felt he would suddenly jump up to surprise her before pulling her into his arms.

Ah Heng stroked his cheeks “Qi Yo, Qi Yo.”

Never again, he would never again open his eyes and call her “Ah Heng” with his chuckle.

Ah Heng cradled Qi Yo in her arms and screamed her pain. Qi Yo, why make me stay alive all alone to endure all of this. Now she wasn’t a goddess, wasn’t a demon, wasn’t a human, wasn’t a monster, she was a freak with nowhere to go.

Everyone died and I’m the only one alive, forced to carry such painful memories. I don’t think I can bear it long enough to see our daughter grow up. I want to come find you now.

The heart inside of her appeared to feel her sorrow and started to beat wildly. Qi Yo’s body started to vanish into a fog and transformed into a peach blossom forest surrounding Ah Heng.

Qi Yo, what are you trying to tell me?

Ah Heng closed her eyes and touched her chest and reached out her other hand. The falling peach blossom petals were like warm caresses as his heart beat warming inside of her. Ah Heng suddenly opened her eyes – you’re here, you’re really here forever by my side!

She murmured “I understand, no matter how painful I will stay alive. For everyone who died, for Xiao Yao, and for you. I want to tell Xiao Yao myself how her daddy was the greatest hero the world never knew it had.”

The earth churned around her as all the corpses were pulled into the ground and more and more peach blossom trees sprouted up around her. Ah Heng got up and turned towards the forest, Qi Yo is this the home you’ve made for me?

Then I will stay here with you forever, never to be apart again.

Unknown to the world, Ah Heng lived like that, alone with Qi Yo's spirit in the cherry blossom forest, for nearly 400 years. The sun power within her did not consume her consciousness, but it remained strong enough that it created a desert beyond the cherry blossom forest with a heat so strong that no one was able to cross it until Shao Hao finally brings Xiao Yao to meet her mother, allowing Ah Heng to fulfill her promise to Qi Yo and finally meet him in death.

IMO, their story is extremely romantic and extremely tragic. 

 nathsketch:

Why are you saying sorry? Isn't this Xiang Liu's thread? Are we supposed to be quiet here too? You can write whatever you want, we're only discussing fictional characters. Say what you need to say!

<3

 Elise:

<3

I love these two so much!!! AHHHH David Tennant, my beloved. This is perfect!

 blimarch:
XY could have deposed both Emperors (I don't think they would have mind, seeing how they think so highly of her), seek power for herself (with the blessing of CX, achieving their promise to protect each other) while allowing Chenrong to have their own sovereignty (Hong Jiang would have stfu by then - yes, we all hate him here)

 blimarch:
I'm not sure to what extent these plans are viable (and I haven't read Once Promised so I can't measure all the variables in the story).

Sheng Nong (Chenrong) is the largest kingdom in terms of land area and population. It sits between Xuan Yuan (Xiyan) and Gao Xing (Haoling). Ruling Sheng Nong and Haoling but allowing Sheng Nong to be independent would be logistically difficult, if not impossible. 

Sheng Nong had already been incorporated into Xuan Yuan for 300 years and its people had accepted this change, especially since little Zhu Rhong (who surrendered to Xuan Yuan) administered the Middle Plains and advocated for its people well. The people of Sheng Nong weren't asking for independence. Realistically, that's not why Gong Gong (Hong Jiang) and his remnant army were fighting. They were fighting to keep their promises / do their duty / abide by their principles. And they didn't see a place for themselves in the new world after the war. They preferred to die as Sheng Nong soldiers on the battlefield. 

XY's mother died in the battle that finally ended the war between Sheng Nong and Xuan Yuan (with the exception of Gong Gong's remnant army that retreated to the mountains outside of QS town), resulting in Sheng Nong being conquered and taken over by Xuan Yuan. In a way, it would be a huge insult to her memory if XY wanted to separate Sheng Nong from Xuan Yuan. And I don't think the Yellow Emperor would allow her to do it if he was alive. He sacrificed so much for that outcome. I think XY would have to kill him first. The nobles and people of Xuan Yuan, and likely even Zhuan Xu, also wouldn't support it. Even if she was able to seize power in Xuan Yuan, it would be very difficult for her to keep it. So many people would try to kill her, especially since Qi Yo (Chi Chen) being her father would inevitably become common knowledge. She would be in even more danger if she also had a romantic relationship with XL while trying to do all of that.

Plus XY would probably be miserable if she held power. XL too. 

 kitty_momo:
Is there anything in this world that will make Hong Jiang stfu? Probably not. Sigh.

Dying...

 kitty_momo:
Another option would be that Hong Jiang grows a fucking conscience and forces XL to leave their foolish pursuit, because I feel like that's what an adoptive father would do for his son. It's clear that XL would never be selfish enough to leave unless his hand is forced, and Hong Jiang should know that. As a last resort he could knock XL out and send him away for his own good before the battle, like CX tried to do with XY before the coronation. XY and XL are very similar in that regard, they need to have their hand forced for their own good.

I feel like there should be lots of options, XL really isn't the kind of person that just surrenders to fate. I really feel like XY could have used her negotiating power with all the emperors and the Lover's Bug to force some sort of compromise where Hong Jiang gets to have a tiny sovereign Chenrong and stfu.

Or maybe Hong Jiang could finally adapt to reality and surrender now that all the people are living  in peace, but of course we all know that won't ever happen.

There is a theme in LYF for other the characters from Once Promised: the sacrifices you made hurt the people around you and left you sad and lonely. Only when you let go of the things you spent so much time fighting for will you find peace and happiness.

The Yellow Emperor's health returns when he hands over the throne to Zhuan Xu (Cang Xuan) and takes up farming. His relationship with Xiao Yao also improves. 

The Grand Emperor's health returns when he hands over Gao Xing (Haoling) and Ah Nian to Zhuan Xu.

Ah Heng held on for 400 years to meet XY. Afterwards, she was finally able to die (having fulfilled her promise) and find peace with Qi Yo (Chi Chen).

Gong Gong (Hong Jiang) is another character from Once Promised. If they were to change XL's ending, it would be very much in keeping with the themes of LYF for him (Gong Gong / Hong Jiang) to learn to finally let go so he and his soldiers could take up a new, peaceful life and find happiness. 

I wouldn't mind seeing a version of the story where that happens. Especially if it involved XY meeting with Hong Jiang to help change his mind. 

 AH :
If they were to change XL's ending, it would be very much in keeping with the themes of LYF for him to learn to finally let go so he and his soldiers could take up a new, peaceful life and find happiness.

OMG, so potentially, there would be a way to change some things and still have them make sense considering the overall theme.

 kitty_momo:
Tushan Jing is looking out the window, lost in thought
Tushan Jing's Spirit Foxy suddenly appears, anxiously pointing outside, signaling for Tushan Jing to go find Xiaoyao
Tushan Jing: You want me to go find her?
Spirit Foxy is anxiously making gestures
Tushan Jing: Are you worried that if I don't look for her, she will leave with someone else?
Spirit Foxy nods immediately, but Tushan Jing looks out the window without moving
Tushan Jing: Many years ago, because I only wanted to be with Xiaoliu, I took advantage of her soft-heartedness. I didn't give her a chance to choose between me and Xiang Liu. However, in the end, I didn't give her happiness. Now... I give her the chance to choose. I owe her this.
Spirit Foxy calms down and looks at the sickly Tushan Jing

This is a very interesting addition. One of the few from the leaked script that I've liked. 

It feels mostly consistent with how TSJ was portrayed in chapter 33, in the sense that, at the beginning of chapter 33, it seemed like he had accepted that XY had moved on. He said that was why he didn't fill her in when TSH's wife was killed and he became suspicious of TSH and FFYY.

It's also an interesting acknowledgement that TSJ considered XL to be a love rival when he asked XY to make the 15 year promise, even before FFB appeared. 

 nathsketch:

OMG, so potentially, there would be a way to change some things and still have them make sense considering the overall theme.

It would require Hong Jiang and his entire remnant army letting go of the principles they spent hundreds of years (300+ years after the war ended, and who knows how many centuries beforehand) fighting for. Which seems impossible. Especially since it would seem to render the previous deaths of their comrades meaningless... 

But if someone had only read Once Promised and you told them that, in the next novel, the Yellow Emperor and the Grand Emperor will both willingly hand over their thrones... they'd probably say that was impossible too. 

 AH :
Especially since it would seem to render the previous deaths of their comrades meaningless...

So the honorable thing would be to continue to send people to their deaths. That's so noble. I feel such joy.

They obviously had no idea that the sunk cost fallacy was already a thing back then. ?

 nathsketch:

So the honorable thing would be to continue to send people to their deaths. That's so noble. I feel such joy.

They obviously had no idea that the sunk cost fallacy was already a thing back then. ?

When I picture XY visiting Hong Jiang, I picture her diplomatically saying something like this, among other things.

 AH :

When I picture XY visiting Hong Jiang, I picture her diplomatically saying something like this, among other things.

We need to change careers (me for a third time) and become scriptwriters LOL I'm confident we could have found a way to make more viewers happy. Or at least less miserable.

 AH :
IMO, their story is extremely romantic and extremely tragic.

Thank you so much for the context of Once Promised! I had only read some parts from the ending. I agree, it's a very romantic and tragic story. I don't think they did anything wrong, they didn't betray each other or anyone else. With this story, I still feel that their story doesn't provide any compelling reasons for why XY and XL shouldn't be together.


 AH :
There is a theme in LYF for other the characters from Once Promised: the sacrifices you made hurt the people around you and left you sad and lonely. Only when you let go of the things you spent so much time fighting for will you find peace and happiness.


 AH :
But if someone had only read Once Promised and you told them that, in the next novel, the Yellow Emperor and the Grand Emperor will both willingly hand over their thrones... they'd probably say that was impossible too.

I completely agree with this. It would be very fitting with the theme if Hong Jiang could let go of his obsession. In fact, there is somewhat of a reference to this in the leaked script, but it's... depressing. After the Emperor of Haoling abdicates to Cangxuan and Ah Nian, Hong Jiang is talking to Xiang Liu. Basically, Hong Jiang says something like "The Emperor of Haoling is really hardcore. Many years ago when Chenrong still existed and Haoling was extremely weak and under attack, he single-handedly won the battle against all odds while massively outnumbered. I really admire his style. I can't believe that kind of person is now surrendering without a fight. Do you think our persistence is meaningful?". And then XL says something like "no matter what, we will persevere" and Hong Jiang just says "HAO". I really can't with them.


 nathsketch:
So the honorable thing would be to continue to send people to their deaths. That's so noble. I feel such joy.

The honorable thing, of course, is to assassinate the person that just unified the whole world and thereby create lots of civil unrest and wars. And send many people to their deaths.

I'd love a scene where XY tells Hong Jiang to google the concept of sunk cost fallacy.

This scene from the leaked script might give some insight to Hong Jiang's stance.


Ep 17  (S2 Ep25 scenes 10, 11)

At the main Shen Nong encampment, ShenNong Yi (Feng Long's father) was paying full respects to Hong Jiang.

SNY (bowing): Uncle.
HJ: Take a seat.
SNY (nervous): Uncle, I have shamelessly come to visit you because...
HJ (interrupting): You don't need to say more. Back then I was filled with contempt when I heard that you had surrendered to the Xuan Yuan king. Your father rather died than bent his knee, his body totally obliterated, yet he had a coward for a son who brought shame to his reputation.

Ashamed, ShenNong Yi kept silent.

HJ: Later, I saw how you endured humiliation and became the lord of Zhi Yi city. Under your administration, the people of the Middle Plains who suffered terribly from the war regained a new lease on life, and I felt that perhaps your choice seemed justified. Prioritise the people over the land, the identity of the ruler is unimportant. What matters are the people.

The acknowledgement of his intentions made ShenNong Yi tear up from aggrieved sadness and emotional joy.

SNY: Now the Great Wilderness is at peace, His Majesty is sage and benevolent. I beg you to put down your heavy burden and surrender.
HJ (smile): When Shen Nong kingdom was destroyed and we were called to surrender, my answer was to fight to the death. Now, my answer remains the same!
SNY (grieved): Why? The destruction of Shen Nong kingdom happened hundreds of years ago. The descendants of the people of the Middle Plains long have no ties to the old kingdom. Why do you still persist on persevering to the death when you approve of my way?
HJ: A Yi, your choice to surrender was not wrong, but neither is my choice. (gaze at the large tree outside the window). Roots grow downwards, while branches grow upwards. The roots go into the darkness while the branches face the sunlight. Both appear to be in direct contrast, complete opposites, but it is exactly because one faces downward and the other upwards, one in the dark while the other is in the light, that this vibrant tree exists.

ShenNong Yi finally understood, and stared at the great tree, stunned.

HJ: The world needs people who are able to adapt to circumstances and go with the flow; as well as people who adhere to their integrity and will, who would rather die than surrender.

ShenNong Yi was extremely grieved. Hong Jiang said no more, got up and left.
****************
Xiang Liu prepared to send ShenNong Yi off with two vigilant Shen Nong soldiers.

XL: Lord ShenNong, the location of our encampment cannot be exposed, so we can only inconvenience you.

Extremely saddened, ShenNong Yi proceeded to give Xiang Liu a deep bow.

SNY: Please accept my bow.

Xiang Liu immediately stepped aside.

SNY: Although Uncle Hong Jiang consoled me that the roots and branches each has its own place, the world only sees the branches and not the roots; they love the branches that are in full bloom, but do not care about the roots that are covered in filth. All these years, it was exactly because of your unwavering stance that those of us who surrendered were given preferential treatment.

Once again, ShenNong Yi insisted on bowing to express his gratitude. This time, Xiang Liu did not avoid, calmly accepting ShenNong Yi's thanks and guilt-ridden regrets.

XL (coldly): After this bow, you and I are sworn enemies.

Sad and speechless, ShenNong Yi quietly turned, and was knocked out cold by Xiang Liu.

XL: Escort him out of the mountain.
Soldiers: Yes.