Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

@HeadInTheClouds

I'm gonna be the lone naysayer here, but I love this change! One of the things that I didn't like about the novel was that I thought Xiang Liu let Cang Xuan off too easily and would have liked to see a few more assassination attempts. Cang Xuan's life was spared twice because XL didn't want to harm Xiao Yao. How many more times does he have to spare Cang Xuan to show that he loves Xiao Yao?

Maybe because I don't "ship" YaoLiu, but I don't like to see every one of Xiang Liu's actions revolve around how they impact Xiao Yao. Xiao Yao is not and should not be the centre of his universe. That cheapened and diminished his character, IMO. It turns him into some kind of lovesick fool whose every decision revolves around a woman. That's Jing's territory. While their love story is one central aspect of his character it isn't the only thing. The thing that I like about this character is the fact that he tries to balance his numerous conflicting responsibilities and desires; trying to reach the best possible outcomes for all the people that he cares about even at his own expense.

And all these comments about him choosing Shen Nong's Army over Xiao Yao like it's a bad thing. How much more does he have to sacrifice for Xiao Yao for it to be enough? Are three lives and countless other arrangements not enough? Xiao Yao's insistence on someone placing her first is unreasonable and incredibly selfish considering she is not willing to do the same thing. And yet, Xiang Liu's looking out for his Army somehow makes him unworthy? Taking out Cang Xuan won't change the ultimate outcome, but it will buy his Army time. He would not be doing right by his comrades and his adoptive father if he did not try because he was afraid of hurting Xiao Yao.

You have an interesting take here on this point. I agree that XL decision to prioritize SH army above XY heartbreak if CX die doesn‘t make him unworthy of XY love. My problem is with the timing of the assassination that make his last assassination attempt on CX a hollow one imo if his only reason is to buy his army time. From the beginning it‘s clear that XL acknowledged the futility of the resistance army. They are part of forgotten era who stubbornly cling to their dream of being a free country again, But at the beginning of the story the SH army did have silent and even active  support from the civilians (the great families of central plain in form of armies supplies for ex.) and the skirmishes with Xuan Yuan army was like guerilla thing which don‘t/only minimally hurt civilians who unlucky enough to be in the vicinity, and as the drama then clarified serves the dual purpose of getting the complacent central plains civilians better treatment from Xuan Yuan. 

After CX won the XY throne, got the support of the central plain great families and even  Haoling throne, SH army effectively lost the cause of their resistance and the support from the great families. The civilians they desperately want to liberate accepted CX as their King already. So if XL only motivation in killing CX is to buy his army time, he effectively like XY pointed out letting the world fall into chaos, because when the throne is empty this time not only Xuan Yuan is affected by power struggle but central plain and haoling as well. A person as intelligent as XL will foresee the consequences of his assassination. The weight of thousands of SH army vs. ten thousands or hundreds thousand of civilians who may died in the bloody power struggle following CX death is no brainer. So i can buy that other motivation, protecting XY from CX, who‘s proven to be also ruthless and manipulative enough to bind XY to him by broadcasting her true parentage and orchestrating Jing‘s murder, etc is the thing that tipped the scale to his decision to assassinate CX as opposed to buy his army time as the sole reason. We can further analyse if this XY motivated reason is making him a better or worse character because in the end he still ready to throw the world into chaos to protect the woman he loves in addition to get a better outcome for his army. I always struggled to understand XL last assassination attempt on CX actually because this point which doesn‘t fit my image of a wise foreseeing character that XL is and bravely accept his impeding end with his comrades on the battlefield. Or maybe he is in this hindsight just like XY who placed the people she loved above the world or in his case then SH army above the world (innocence lives). That‘s why for me if the S2 removed this layer of wanting to protect XY from CX from his motivation, this make XL a worse character because it make him look so stubborn and shortsighted in weighing the outcome, not because he chose SH army above XY heartbreak.

 luv2bafangurl:

And during the 15 years after grandma dug her heel and said no repeatedly, the honorable thing for him to do is to free XY of her promise instead playing the victim card and I‘m so kind I can‘t go against my family pls forgive me and wait for me game stringing her along all the way.

Part of me agrees with this sentiment. But the more I think about it, the more I feel like... what would that look like? When would he say that? What would XY say? And what would it accomplish?

TSJ anticipated that extracting himself from his engagement would take time, which was why he asked for the 15 years in the first place. I think he was anticipating that the difficulty would mainly be with tactfully ending things with the Fang Feng family, and he didn't anticipate that his grandmother would be so attached to FFYY and end up behaving the way she did. WXL becoming XY and supporting CX in his fight for the throne also complicated things. 

For the most part, I do agree with everyone who takes the view that it was wrong for TSJ to ask XY to wait for him (and to not let anyone else into her heart) for that long in the first place. But once the ask was made, and XY agreed, it seems that it would hurt XY more if he quit part way through.

I'm trying to imagine what it would look like. If, part way through the 15 years, TSJ told XY to forget her promise and to forget him, because extracting himself from his engagement was proving to be more difficult than anticipated, how would XY take that? Especially if he cut himself off from her. Wouldn't she feel like TSJ was giving up on her? Like he was abandoning her, and unwilling to keep trying to be with her, simply because the path was difficult? If he emphasized that she should feel free to find another lover, would she accept that? Even if she did, what would it accomplish? CX couldn't be the partner she wanted. Feng Long couldn't be the partner she wanted. XL/FFB wasn't willing to be the partner she wanted. So where would she be left? Alone and abandoned, with FFB and CX keeping her company at times but unable or unwilling to be the life partner she wanted.  

And during the 15 years, TSJ was aware that XY was very close to FFB. He didn't say or do anything about it because he knew he didn't have the right to do so while he was still engaged. He didn't realize XY actually wanted him to say something about it. After she started spending time with FFB, TSJ didn't remind XY of the promise until chapter 18, after XY made it clear in chapter 16 that she wanted him to do so.

Jing sending XY wine every 15 days is similar to XY sending XL poisons every 3 months, their way of saying don't forget about me, because I sure think of you constantly. 

"XY made it clear in chapter 16 that she wanted TSJ to send her gifts / messages / wine,"

And one chapter later she tried to recreate that underwater scene she used to have with XL with Jing. 

 luv2bafangurl:

First, in the novel, I liked that Tong Hua left some room for interpretation in chapter 46. Perhaps XL really was trying to kill CX, even though he knew how much that would hurt XY, and failed. Or perhaps, master archer that he was, he made it seem like he was targeting CX when Feng Long was his real target all along, and he found his target while also successfully setting up his interaction with XY where he pushed her just hard enough for her to cut ties with him, but not hard enough that she could bear to kill him / that their bugs would turn on them.  

(Also, in the novel, CX had betrayed XY and hurt her terribly by chapter 46, through the role he played in TSJ's death in chapter 42. So even if XL really was targeting CX, I think I would feel like, to some degree, he was protecting / avenging XY, even though it would definitely hurt her. Kind of like XL hurting XY in the short term by ending her wedding to Feng Long the way he did, because it helped / protected her in the long run. But since CX didn't play a role in TSJ's death in the drama, that extra layer isn't there.)

IMO, the added drama scene seems to be framing the lead-up to the assassination attempt as a moment where XL was definitely deciding whether he was willing to kill CX, despite knowing how much it would hurt XY. No ambiguity. He recalls XY's comments and says her words were right, and decides to go ahead with the assassination. Emphasizing to the audience that XL carefully thought about it, decided hurting XY was worth it, and privately (i.e., not for show in front of XY) came to the conclusion that her words were accurate. That he was a man who wasn't suitable to enter a girl's dreams, because he was willing to assassinate XY's beloved brother. The flashback they chose even has XY referring to her brother, which serves to remind the audience (as if we need the reminder) of XY and CX's close relationship.

I'm really just not a fan of that framing.

great insight. They really tried hard not to diminished XL sacrifices but to assassinate his character as well, like hammering it in to the audience why XL is not the Mr. Right for XY, because he ultimately chose Shen Nong army explicitly by trying to assassinate CX, not only because he can‘t abandon Shen Nong army and will die with them on battlefield. That for me is two different things. 

For clarity, I do think it's possible that CX was XL's real target in chapter 46. IMO, Tong Hua intentionally left it ambiguous. I prefer the interpretation that Feng Long was his real target (for several reasons, including the fact that Feng Long helped Xing Yue try to kill XY in chapter 44), but I can also accept it if XL was really targeting CX. 

But I don't like that the drama removes that ambiguity and I don't appreciate that the scene is framed as if to say to the viewer, "See! He was wrong for her all along! Even he thinks so!" Even if it's essentially true, largely due to XL's own choices, the framing is just irksome and the way XL acts also just feels out of character for XL (compared to the novel version of XL). 

 H19279:

First, in the novel, I liked that Tong Hua left some room for interpretation in chapter 46. Perhaps XL really was trying to kill CX, even though he knew how much that would hurt XY, and failed. Or perhaps, master archer that he was, he made it seem like he was targeting CX when Feng Long was his real target all along, and he found his target while also successfully setting up his interaction with XY where he pushed her just hard enough for her to cut ties with him
I once discussed the reason that XL tried to kill CX in chapter 46. I don't remember which page was that. XL had many reason to kill CX, not only because of Sheng Nong army but also for XY's free life. CX's action of spreading the information about XY's real father as Chi-You and killing Jing betrayed her trust and her ulmost will of a free life with a long term companionship. She had no where to go, no person who she chose to rely on. He was the biggest onstacle for XY to have what she wanted as well as what XL expect her to have. If CX still existed and XY didn't know his real trait, her free life with her future partner was not certain either.

I agree that if XL was targeting CX in chapter 46, he had reasons to do so for XY's sake in addition to doing so for the sake of the remnant army. 

CX was selfish. He cared more about keeping XY by his side than about her happiness. He hurt her deeply when he killed TSJ, and if XL brought TSJ back for XY without doing something about CX then there was a serious risk that CX would continue to interfere and prevent XY from getting her happy ending with TSJ. 

But if XL killed CX in chapter 46 when XY had no idea that he was responsible for revealing her identity to the world and no idea that he was responsible for TSJ's death, XY would have been absolutely devastated. XL would also have to consider whether it might even cause XY to no longer carry any love in her heart for him - which might cause their Lovers' Bugs to kill them both. 

The better solution was to give XY enough information for her to realize that CX was responsible for TSJ's death, which is exactly what he ended up doing in chapter 46. 

 H19279:

Killing FL in front of XY or after her back made no diffirence. He could kill FL any time if he wished but killing FL was bad idea causing harm to Shen-nong army instead of helping them (as it proved in the novel because the Shen nong Army would lose the support of family clans in Middle Plains). And FL was a general. when he died, CX would send another general to take the role.

Feng Long helped Xing Yue try to kill XY in chapter 44. And XL's attack also led XY to confront XL and cut ties with him, as XL intended. 

Killing Feng Long and then immediately launching a surprise attack also resulted in the Xuan Yuan army taking great losses, and the remnant army gaining much-needed provisions. 

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Chapter 46:

The cruel reality of life left no time to mourn as Yu Jiang rushed inside to announce that Xiang Liu just launched a surprise attack on the army base. The attacking forces were broadcasting that Feng Long just died so the Xuan Yuan army was in disarray and shock.

Zhuan Xu controlled all his roiling emotions, donned his battle armor and left for the army base.

From the moment Xiang Liu’s arrow struck Feng Long, he knew Feng Long was going to die. That’s why he left so quickly to get his army for a timely attack.

The Xuan Yuan army was a mess, having lost its leading general. Xian was so intent on getting revenge for Feng Long, she ignored Yu Jiang’s orders and rushed into battle, losing badly to Xiang Liu.

Zhuan Xu revealed himself at the critical moment and revived the flagging morale of the Xuan Yuan army, salvaging the defeat but at a great cost, with Xiang Liu taking half the provisions and burning the remaining.

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In terms of the bigger picture, the support of the Middle Plains families made a difference to the stability of CX's rule and cohesion in his kingdom, but it didn't really make a difference to the remnant army's prospects. The supplies that the remnant army had previously received from them and from Gao Xing had already been cut off when the war between Gao Xing and Xuan Yuan ended (with Gao Xing becoming part of Xuan Yuan). Tbh, Gong Gong might actually be relieved that the ties between him and the Middle Plains families had been permanently severed so that they wouldn't support him and his losing cause, which could only bring them harm when he was ultimately defeated. 

Feng Long's death also caused CX to change tactics. Instead of a slow siege, he amassed an army of 200,000+ to take the remnant army out faster. In this regard, I can't be certain, but if XL felt that dying on the battlefield with his comrades was the best ending, perhaps the thought of dying together in one great last battle was actually preferable to another decade or two of sieges and guerrilla warfare (and decades of cremation ceremony after cremation ceremony), especially now that their support had been cut off and their weapons and provisions were limited. Earlier in the novel, XL said that his comrades should die facing the Yellow Emperor's army (rather than from illness). I'm sure the same sentiment applied to dying on the battlefield rather than dying in camp from starvation. 

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Chapter 47:

The Yellow Emperor said, “Some things are both a curse and a blessing, if you handle this well it can be both. Feng Long’s unexpected death, aside from your personal sadness, may not be a bad thing for the future of the kingdom.”

Zhuan Xu paused to think about it and understood what the Yellow Emperor meant. Gong Gong was the Sheng Nong kingdom general and still had strong ties with many Middle Plains families. If it was détente then no one would need to pick sides, but now that it was the final war then many Middle Plains families might feel torn on who to support. But with Feng Long’s death at the hand of Gong Gong’s subordinate, the Chi Sui clan and the Sheng Nong tribe would never ever forgive Gong Gong. Now all the Middle Plains families would stand behind them as well. So with Feng Long’s death, it actually severed all remaining ties between Gong Gong and the Middle Plains completely.

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Chapter 5:

Xiang Liu slowly walked back with the sorrowful song lingering behind him. Xiao Liu leaned against the door and watched him walk in the blood red sunset, his white hair and white robe still pristine and untouched. Xiang Liu stopped in front of Xiao Liu, his cold gaze containing a measure of disdain, but it wasn’t clear if it was meant for the world or for himself.

Xiao Liu suddenly bowed. “I wanted to apologize for what I said last time.” Xiang Liu was expressionless as he entered the house. “If the medicine comes sooner, they can live a bit longer. They are warriors. If they are to die, it ought to be in front of the Yellow Emperor’s army.”

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Chapter 46:

Zhuan Xu told Feng Long that this war was a must win for Xuan Yuan, but didn’t need to be rushed. Start with small skirmishes to determine the tactics of the opponent, but no matter what, don't get lured into the mountains by Gong Gong. The resistance army was based in the mountains and once lured inside they would have the full advantage. That’s why the Yellow Emperor sent forces many times in the past and all were defeated.

An army base needed supplies and provisions and the reason Gong Gong picked Qing Shui town was because it was aligned with Gao Xing and next to the East Sea for the water route. Even if the Yellow Emperor closed off all land routes for the provision of supplies, Gong Gong could still get supplied through Gao Xing channels or the water route. Back then Gao Xing was happy to have the resistance army be a thorn in the side of Xuan Yuan and secretly sent provisions, and even some powerful families secretly were helping Gong Gong. But now things were different, the entire vast wilderness was under the rule of Xuan Yuan and the kingdom army now had provisions and even the forces from all the major families with various powers.

Zhuan Xu wanted Feng Long to surround the resistance army and slowly choke off all its supply routes until it starved to the point of being easy to take down.

Feng Long set off to war and implemented Zhuan Xu’s battle strategy perfectly, battling the resistance forces until it retreated into the deep mountains.

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Chapter 48:

The Yellow Emperor continued, “With the assistance of Chi Sui Hai Tian, the new Chi Sui clan leader has been named so the immediate danger has passed. But don’t forget what he wants from you.”

“Chi Sui Hai Tian wants the lives of Gong Gong and Xiang Liu, to avenge the death of his grandson Feng Long. Originally I wanted to slowly attrition-attack Gong Gong’s forces, one to avoid conflict with the Middle Plains, and to limit the number of deaths. But with Feng Long’s death, this strategy will upset the Chi Sui clan and Sheng Nong tribe, they will perceive it as I don’t care about Feng Long’s death. I’ve already decided to use a kingdom’s worth of force to quickly destroy Gong Gong’s army and use their lives to avenge Feng Long.”

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Chapter 51:

“After the death of the Chi Sui Clan Leader, His Majesty ordered that the Army was to completely exterminate Gong Gong’s army at all costs. Great General Ru So commanded an army of 200,000 soldiers to surround and attack Gong Gong’s army. Under the unrelenting attack of the Xuan Yuan army, Gong Gong’s army retreated deep into the forest and refused to engage. General Ru So started to burn the entire mountain to force Gong Gong’s army to come out and battle and found themselves facing General Ru So’s army and also General Li Yuan’s army of 20,000 soldiers..."

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Epilogue:

In the distance he could see fires burning, that was Ru So burning the entire mountain to force them to come out and battle. The final battle was about to arrive. All the soldiers knew their fate and they willingly chose this path in life. The world was at peace and the people were safe and secure, these Sheng Nong resistance army soldiers were now discarded in the passage of time and had become pointless. So death was the best release for them, and the most comforting final destination.

 H19279:

only killing CX could change the fate of Shen-nong army.

If CX was killed, Xuan Yuan would be destabilized and a power struggle would ensue. The remnant army would likely get a temporary reprieve, but would it really change their fate in the long term? If there was a great war, it would likely wreak devastation upon the Middle Plains families that Gong Gong had long been trying to protect (according to the scenes added in the drama, assuming Gong Gong in the novel had the same motive). 

And if a great war ensued, would it really allow Gong Gong's small remnant army to restore the great kingdom of Sheng Nong? Even if that seemingly impossible goal was achieved, who would rule the restored kingdom? Gong Gong vowed that he wouldn't. Little Zhu Rong and General Hou Tu betrayed Sheng Nong. The same problems that led to Sheng Nong's demise in the first place would plague the kingdom once again if it was restored. 

IMO, by chapter 46, Gong Gong, XL and the remnant army weren't fighting to "win". They were fighting to not surrender, and to get the death / release they wanted. 

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Chapter 46:

“Gong Gong lives for his fallen kingdom and stubbornly refuses to surrender, that’s something admirable! But people cannot fight against the inevitable. Now Xuan Yuan, Sheng Nong, and Gao Xing have all united, each of the tribes, clans, and families are coexisting peacefully. If you kill Zhuan Xu then the entire vast wilderness will be launched into disarray and war will begin again. Hundreds of thousands of people will be swept up in the devastation. Is this what Gong Gong wants in order to cling to his loyalty, be true to himself at the cost of the peace of the world?”

Xiang Liu smiled a sardonic grin. “If I kill Zhuan Xu, then it means the vast wilderness isn’t yet united. How can you say we’re going up against the inevitable?”

“You know in your heart whether what I’m saying is right or not!”

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Epilogue:

In the distance he could see fires burning, that was Ru So burning the entire mountain to force them to come out and battle. The final battle was about to arrive. All the soldiers knew their fate and they willingly chose this path in life. The world was at peace and the people were safe and secure, these Sheng Nong resistance army soldiers were now discarded in the passage of time and had become pointless. So death was the best release for them, and the most comforting final destination.

 H19279:

Moreover, he could not control the factor that FL would use his body.

To some degree, that's true. But XL could wait to make his attack until CX and Feng Long were next to each other in the courtyard. We know from XY's archery in chapter 44 that XY could create unusual trajectories for her arrows. Even if it looked like XL was aiming at CX, he could have been aiming at Feng Long the whole time. He also could have observed Feng Long's position and movements at the moment of the attack and adjusted his aim accordingly. He may even have intentionally made his presence known before releasing his first arrow in order to give Feng Long time to instinctively block CX. Perhaps he only released the arrow after Feng Long started to make his move. There were many things XL could do in order to engineer the outcome he wanted. 

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Chapter 44:

A silver arrow was released going from low to high, it grazed the thigh of one before lodging in the arm of another. Another arrow flew forth, the trajectory weird as well, whizzing by the ear of two and leaving a thin blood trail before embedding in the eye of a third.

Two arrows and five people! Xiao Yao did the best she could!

 H19279:

About the script:

 H19279:

In general, I don't like how the plot is bult and progressed in the drama. It is illogical.

Agreed. 

 blabla100:

I can't remember if this has been discussed before, but if her love for Jing was genuine, which IMO it wasn't, she would have definetely tried to take the bug out of XL and transfer it to him, she did it before with CX. 

I disagree.

The bug causes the recipient to feel XY's pain. And XY later finds out that it also ties the hosts' lives together, meaning that if she dies, the recipient also dies. Even if she could transfer the bug from XL to TSJ, I don't think XY would choose to do so out of love for TSJ. That would mean that she chose to make TSJ feel her pain and put his life at risk, which would be totally out of character for her and wouldn't be an act of love. 

When TSJ asked XL about the bugs in chapter 39, I think he was hoping to eliminate the problem by getting rid of the bugs entirely, but he also would have been open to transferring the bug from XL to himself. Whereas I think  XY was looking to get rid of the bugs, and wasn't thinking of transferring the bug from XL to TSJ for the reasons I mentioned above. 

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Chapter 32:

Xiao Yao was taken aback because Xiang Liu was absolutely correct. Their deal was completely fair. Even if she could do it over and knowing the consequences of today, to protect Zhuan Xu she would still choose to move the voodoo bug into Xiang Liu. It had simply been too long since Xiang Liu asked her to fulfill her end of the bargain. She had also seen Fang Feng Bei as real, so their relationship was covered by this tender sweet layer like a gauzy veil. Xiao Yao simply forgot that their relationship was always just a transaction, so no matter what he chose to ask of her, she had no right to be angry.

 luv2bafangurl:

My problem is with the timing of the assassination that make his last assassination attempt on CX a hollow one imo if his only reason is to buy his army time. From the beginning it‘s clear that XL acknowledged the futility of the resistance army. They are part of forgotten era who stubbornly cling to their dream of being a free country again, But at the beginning of the story the SH army did have silent and even active  support from the civilians (the great families of central plain in form of armies supplies for ex.) and the skirmishes with Xuan Yuan army was like guerilla thing which don‘t/only minimally hurt civilians who unlucky enough to be in the vicinity, and as the drama then clarified serves the dual purpose of getting the complacent central plains civilians better treatment from Xuan Yuan.

After CX won the XY throne, got the support of the central plain great families and even  Haoling throne, SH army effectively lost the cause of their resistance and the support from the great families. The civilians they desperately want to liberate accepted CX as their King already. So if XL only motivation in killing CX is to buy his army time, he effectively like XY pointed out letting the world fall into chaos, because when the throne is empty this time not only Xuan Yuan is affected by power struggle but central plain and haoling as well. A person as intelligent as XL will foresee the consequences of his assassination. The weight of thousands of SH army vs. ten thousands or hundreds thousand of civilians who may died in the bloody power struggle following CX death is no brainer.

 luv2bafangurl:

That‘s why for me if the S2 removed this layer of wanting to protect XY from CX from his motivation, this make XL a worse character because it make him look so stubborn and shortsighted in weighing the outcome, not because he chose SH army above XY heartbreak.

I agree.