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Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

H19279

dear @LilMoussySnow & @other

it is not user friendly to work on this media using phone. it doesn’t allow to quote part of others’s post. Copy paste or editing function is annoying. therefore, when i have no laptop available and need to reply on phone, i usually write on a note (apps) then copy it to MDL.

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@pomelotree
Purely out of curiosity, may I ask - it seems like LYF has a very large Vietnamese fan base! I see lots of fan made videos and on facebook the Vietnamese crowd is very active too. As I typically do not watch C-dramas, I'm wondering if C-dramas are very popular in Vietnam? I imagine there will be a rather substantial language barrier (until the translations come out) so mad respect for following the shows so well despite that.
C- drama has been very popular 

in Vietnam for very long time. there are always a few c-dramas broadcast on national TV channels everyday. Moreover, the cable or satellite TV/internet service all so fills their entertainment programs with C or K drama.

it is very easy to find free sharing movie/drama internet sites which update continuously with the latest released dramas (with subtitles or even with verbal subtitles)
Thus, many chinese or korean actors/actresses have a large fan base in Vietnam.
in the case of LYF, it is more special. This novel was translated about 10 years ago already and it was officially published for several times because TH is a famed writers whose many other works were adapted on screen. there has been a novel fanbase of LYF before the drama.
The drama itself was a big hit this summer. So it attracts many new drama fans. Yang Zi probably has many fans too. TJC and DW are big surprise. Both are good-looking. TJC’s acting skill is also appreciated by many. Therefore their fans increases exponentially since LYF.
Next, somehow i find the Vietnamese fans more or less as dedicated to their “idols” as the Chinese fans. They are willing to fight for their “idol” (ie, actors/actresses or the drama/novel characters). So they are really active on some FB groups or other forums.
Last, lately i find that many young people interested in Chinese literature. Many of them translate online Chinese novels and stories and share with others. They do it as hobby. Chinese drama industry uses novel/stories as base for script. So, it also makes C drama easier to attract Vietnamese audience.
P/s: i have been living abroad for 16 years and had not watched many C-drama. I just got back to watch c-drama since March this year( by watching She and her perfect husband while watching national TV channel) within 6 months i completed about 600 eps (LOL). My family in Vietnam don’t watch C-Drama.

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HeadInTheClouds

Hi all. Just bringing over from the other thread a conversation with MayaDavid about Jing and how he could potentially pretend to be more helpless than he actually is as a way to keep Xiao Yao. I'll copy and paste some of the comments from over there:

Frankly relying on Xiao Yao to help him resolve his family issue could be a deliberate manipulation tactic. Because it reminded Xiao Yao that he needed her and reinforced her role as his saviour. This creates a bond between them and places Xiao Yao in a position of responsibility towards him. This hits Xiao Yao exactly in her weak spot. Their relationship is not all that different from her relationship with her human family. 

I agree with this. I don’t think Jing is weak and ineffective. I think that is how XY liked him to be. That was their dynamic. I think Jing understood this and behaved as how XY wanted him to be. 

I am still debating whether Jing truly lacked the means to solve his family situation or if he refrained from decisive action due to his dynamic with XY. I am strongly inclined to believe the latter. In addition to the point I mentioned from chapter 16, XY herself mentioned how Jing wouldn’t be the person she liked if he acted against his family. XY attributed that to Jing’s kindness. However, I think that this is her desire for a weak man. Jing probably understood this well after being with her for many years. These points coupled with the fact that Jing is no ordinary man but a clan leader who is running the largest business network in Dahung made me believe that Jing’s apparent weakness might actually be their dynamic rather than him being ineffective and having no means to solve his family situation. 

MayaDavid's post at the bottom of the page for more on this


Just want to get your thoughts on this. Is there anything in the novel that could support or not support this hypothesis? You ladies know this novel inside out, so would appreciate the help.

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blabla100

@HeadInTheClouds

I don't belive Jing was acting like that because he belived XY wanted him like that, but as a way to keep XY by his side. This is what I personally call emotional blackmail. 

"Xiao Yao shoved Jing hard “I don’t want to play anymore. I take back my promise! You scram back to Qing Qiu and go marry Fang Feng Yi Yang!”

"I won’t marry her. She doesn’t like me so she likely doesn’t want to marry me either.”

Xiao Yao stopped shoving “I don’t believe it! Why reason does she have to not like you?”

“I’m a cripple and I can tell she’s shocked and dismayed. One time she saw the scars on my body and was shocked…..”

Xiao Yao felt terrible, she knew Jing had a crippled leg and his scars were truly scary, but that shouldn’t be a reason to dislike him."

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HeadInTheClouds
 blabla100:

@HeadInTheClouds

I don't belive Jing was acting like that because he belived XY wanted him like that, but because he wanted to keep XY by his side. This is what I personally call emotional blackmail. 

I think what MayaDavid was putting forward was that Xiao Yao likes to be in the position of power in her relationships because it gives her control and makes her feel safe - it's part of her psychological issues. So Jing played into that. I'll add a little more from the conversation so it will be clearer. But yes, we think there may be deliberate emotional manipulation going on  - a kind of weaponised incompetence as well.

One of the clearest examples of emotional manipulation for me is the sending of 15 bottles of wine, on the 15 day of the month (I think - I'm not good with details :-)).  The constant tune of, "I know I'm not good for you, but....".  All the while, he played into Xiao Yao's sympathy/pity.

I know that my opinion of Jing really changed during this reading, so I may be reading all of this through a biased lens. Thus,I just want to see if you ladies here who are more neutral on him picked up anything.

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windiaaa041293

Speaking of that...
A few months ago, I saw on TikTok a video clip of LYF that Jingger posted.
I forgot what episode.
But the picture is taken from inside the room to the outside, outside shows Tsj walking towards the room where XY is,
From the outside it looked like Jing was walking fine/normal/not limping, but when he was about to enter the room and Xy saw, his walking changed to a limp.
I still clearly remember that video, and jingger wrote the caption: how sweet Jing is, he always tries to be Ye Siqi for xy.
have you ever noticed it?
After thinking about it, it turns out how cunning Jing is...woaaah...I want to find that video again.

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H19279

Hi @ HeadInTheClouds

I don’t think Jing is weak and ineffective. I think that is how XY liked him to be. That was their dynamic. I think Jing understood this and behaved as how XY wanted him to be.

There is text that supports this observation. I can not paste it here since the annoying mobile MDL (i will do it later)

However, I don’t think he deliberately wanted XY help him to solve his family issues (i mean until she married to FL). He just too weak to deal with his grandma. it was not FFYY was the biggest family obstacle but his grandma’s will. He was drugged and framed because of his grandma’s plan (together with FFYY). The kid and marriage with FFYY was consequence of her/their plan that he had to take.
Later, after the marriage robbery, when XY acknowledged her mistake in the past, then it’s good move from him that they collaborate to solve his family issue. 2 people taking the road together is better than walking alone (as Tian Er said and XY told him too)

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H19279
 windiaaa041293:

Speaking of that...
A few months ago, I saw on TikTok a video clip of LYF that Jingger posted.
I forgot what episode.
But the picture is taken from inside the room to the outside, outside shows Tsj walking towards the room where XY is,
From the outside it looked like Jing was walking fine/normal/not limping, but when he was about to enter the room and Xy saw, his walking changed to a limp.
I still clearly remember that video, and jingger wrote the caption: how sweet Jing is, he always tries to be Ye Siqi for xy.
have you ever noticed it?
After thinking about it, it turns out how cunning Jing is...woaaah...I want to find that video again.

i saw that too. LOL. yesterday i posted the part where he didn’t want to treat his limp.  LOl if it is his acting. i am afraid that he had to act day and night now after the marriage with XY

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blabla100

@HeadInTheClouds

I understand what you mean, but I don't belive he was acting like that to please XY or as to give her a guarantee. I belive he was just very cunning and took advantage of XY's kindness and traumas. He îs a fox after all. 

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HeadInTheClouds
 windiaaa041293:

Speaking of that...
A few months ago, I saw on TikTok a video clip of LYF that Jingger posted.
I forgot what episode.
But the picture is taken from inside the room to the outside, outside shows Tsj walking towards the room where XY is,
From the outside it looked like Jing was walking fine/normal/not limping, but when he was about to enter the room and Xy saw, his walking changed to a limp.
I still clearly remember that video, and jingger wrote the caption: how sweet Jing is, he always tries to be Ye Siqi for xy.
have you ever noticed it?
After thinking about it, it turns out how cunning Jing is...woaaah...I want to find that video again.

Wow! That would probably be a clear example of deliberate manipulation. I didn't notice it when I watch it.

And I was just talking about interpreting things through a biased lens in my post above. And here it is, people who like Jing truly see it as him being loving and considerate. While, I'm sitting here thinking that he's being shady:-)

Please post that video if you find it. 

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HeadInTheClouds
 blabla100:

@HeadInTheClouds

I understand what you mean, but I don't belive he was acting like that to please XY or as to give her a guarantee. I belive he was just very cunning and took advantage of XY's kindness and traumas. He îs a fox after all. 

Absolutely, he is cunning! I would say that the two things there are not mutually exclusive. Because he is cunning, and he saw the dynamic that Xiao Yao had with her human family as WXL, I think it's very possible that his cunning mind used that to his advantage. A highly manipulative person will use your weakness against you, and his using XY's trauma against her means playing into her need for control/power in a relationship. 

The more I think about it, the uglier it becomes.

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luv2bafangurl

@Kokuto

I disagree that there was anything right about XY not wanting to see TSJ and FFYY intimate together.  That's a sign of denial.  It's what the 'other woman' does so she can continue to be the side piece.  If she loved Jing, and believed he loved her, there should be no intimate moments between Jing and FFYY.  The fact that she just got hit with the first treatment of being the sidepiece, when Jing defended FFYY in front of her, should have motivated her.  But, like I said, she wants to remain blind and live in her fantasy.

I mean by XY rightly declined FFL (FangFengLiu) offer to see FFYY and TSH is because from her pov that offer was meant to egg her on/made fun/mock her. It‘s one thing to see TSJ with FFYY together by coincidence or in social events she can‘t avoid and another thing entirely to actively looking for them and ‚catching‘ them together having tete a tete (I think I used the wrong word ‚intimate‘ before as it implied more intimacy than the more innocent interaction like having private conversation).  I don‘t think anyone in her right mind will want to knowingly inflict herself that pain seeing her lover with his official fiancee and be mocked by someone else. 

This period of time is where I lose some of my respect of XY because even if she agreed to the 15 years promise, she doesn‘t need to escalate or participate in escalating the relationship with Jing further. I don‘t rewatch their scenes so I forget who initiated their relationship with more kissing, other intimate scenes etc. It‘s one thing imo to give that promise and waiting while he‘s sorting his family affair but to be that intimate and stealing moments with engaged man just feel so wrong to me.  To be fair she did tried to distance herself from TSJ but TSJ himself, CX and even XL kept pushing her back to TSJ


XL did what he always does.  He lets XY make her decisions in her own time.  Yes, he could have been more direct, but that's not his way or XY's way.  XY can't handle direct.  XL will show her the door, but it's up to her to open it.  It's why he always answers her questions with a question.

"Who are you?"

"Who do YOU want me to be?"
 These are instances where I wish XL was not so Yoda-like with his roundabout ways. It make great drama and great quotes but sucks for relationship. 

Hey!  We're all qualified. :)   Cause this is me too!  But I don't let it stop me from joining the conversation.   I just couch most of my commentary from the PoV of the drama -- which IS part of this conversation too.

Thank you for your encouragement =). The ladies here are so smart and concise with their explanation and arguments and said everything I thought about the drama already. I feel I don‘t really have something meaningful/new to add at this point, so I‘ll just enjoy the discussion and essays for the time being 

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liddi
 windiaaa041293:
This Weibo post by Tong Hua points out the purpose of this book's growth line:

If you are suffering from the pain caused by the shadow of your original family, if you are suffering from the hardships of life, don't be like Xiaoyao, longing for someone to save you. Look, Xiaoyao has been going around in circles for half his life. Didn't you finally come out on your own? Therefore, believe in yourself. Suffering is suffering only because you are defeated by it. If you transform suffering into your own strength, then no suffering can defeat you. There is no long-term dependence in this world. Whether it is parents, lovers, relatives and friends, you are born alone and will die alone. Don't be obsessed with long- term dependence. Even if your loved ones leave, you will still be together. Live your life well.

Tong Hua was actually quoting the text from the novel in her post. The words were from Cang Xuan to Xiao Yao, after they returned to Shen Nong and met their grandfather after over 200 years:

玱玹笑起来，“小夭，你怨恨那两个侍女吗？如果不是她们说了不该说的话，你压根儿不用颠沛流离两百多年。”

“不，如果没有那两百多年，我不会是现在的我。如果我在父王身边平平安安地长大，也许会很幸福，可我喜欢现在的我。现在的我什么都不怕，因为我已经历过一无所有，不管遇见多么可怕的困难，我都可以像杀死九尾狐妖一样，手起刀落地杀掉那些困难。”

“如果没有王叔的逼迫，我不会孤身去高辛，就不会看到另外一个世界；如果没有他们一次次的逼害和暗杀，我不会变得更狡猾、更冷静、更有力量。苦难之所以能成为苦难，只是因为遇到它们的人被打败了，而我们打败了苦难，并把它们踩碎，揉进自己的身体里，变成了属于我们的力量，所以，我们从不会把苦难看作苦难。爷爷和我们是一样的人，正因为他明白，所以他才选择了放手。”

小夭笑起来，“好吧，好吧，说不过你，以后我注意一些，不再刺激外祖父了。”

Cang Xuan laughed and said, "Xiao Yao, do you resent those two maids? If they had not said what they should not have, you would not have had to be destitute and homeless for over two hundred years."

"No, if it had not been for those two hundred years, I would not have been the person I am today. If I had grown up peacefully by Royal Father's side, I might have been very blessed, but I like who I am now. The person I am now is afraid of nothing, because I had experienced total loss. No matter what terrifying hardships come my way, I will be able to cut them down swiftly and decisively, like how I killed the nine-tailed fox demon."

"If not for the royal uncles' coercion, I would not have gone to Gao Xin alone, and gotten to see a different world. If not for their repeated plots and assassination attempts, I would not have become more cunning, calmer, stronger. Tribulations turn into tribulations because that those who encounter them are defeated. However, we defeated the tribulations, crushed them to pieces, absorbed them into our bodies and transformed them into our strength. As such, we will never see tribulations as tribulations. Grandfather is just like us. It is precisely because he understood that he chose to let go."

Xiao Yao laughed. "Alright, alright, I can't win this argument. I will be more careful in future not to provoke Grandfather."

-- Vol 1 Ch15

It is telling that the Xiao Yao at the time of that scene, was still pretty much Wen Xiao Liu, except in a woman's body. She was fearless, learnt to survive well and boldly faced whatever obstacles or threats came her way. As such, it was very difficult to see that part of herself chipped away as she allowed herself to be imprisoned by her love and loyalty to her family in a position she never really wanted, a life she did not truly long for. Fear became her companions and shackles, one which she never truly broke free from until Xiang Liu's death finally shattered her chains and she grasped the life she wanted and took that step out of the prison that had held her for so long.

I have cited this scene several times, but I still feel that the bow recognition scene depicted in the drama beautifully sums what Tong Hua wishes to convey in the novel, through the lessons Xiang Liu was subtly telling her - that she had to be self-sufficient, to be strong enough to never have to rely on others or be at the mercy of anyone's whims, and to boldly reach out and claim the kind of life she truly wanted. This is the essence of what Tong Hua always talks about:

"Although I write romance stories, but my understanding of love has always been to first be the best version of yourself before moving on to feelings. One of the cornerstones of love is equality, and equality is built on a woman's independence and self-empowerment. 
...
My view is that love can make life very beautiful, but it is not the only thing in life. Women should first live their own lives well. Only a woman with financial and mental independence can embrace love calmly."

-- Tong Hua, 2019 interview excerpts

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windiaaa041293

FANG FENG BEI ONLINE

Xiaoyao chose to trust her intuition at first and believed that Fangfengbei was Xiangliu. However, as they got along slowly, she came to the conclusion that Fangfengbei was just Fangfengbei. However, she was still the same as before. Falling in love with Xiang Liu, falling in love with Fang Feng Bei.

So there is no doubt that Xiaoyao will fall in love with the same person over and over again - no matter he is Xiangliu or Fangfengbei, no matter if he looks cold or passionate, ruthless or gentle.

It was at this time that Fangfeng Bei took her to the flower demon's spice shop. She used the perfume she bought to mix more than ten kinds of unique fragrances. Xiaoyao often used a fragrance she named "Dream". , Later Zuo Er described this kind of fragrance: "The faint fragrance is there, distant yet close, like the gorgeous starry sky on a midsummer night." >

In the past, in Qingshui Town, Xiangliu gave Xiaoyao the feeling that "it makes people want to get close but is afraid of him"; now in Xuanyuan City, Fangfengbei gave Xiaoyao the feeling of "somewhat absent, distant yet close".

What does the phrase "the gorgeous starry sky on a midsummer night" mean? It's a midsummer night's dream! "A Midsummer Night's Dream" is Shakespeare's comedy, a romantic story about lovers getting married.

So what is Xiaoyao’s dream? It is "Lovers will eventually get married".

This is consistent with my previous explanation of "the dreamer": Xiaoyao already knew her love for Xiangliu when "the moon rises over the sea". Not being able to let Xiangliu fall into her dream does not mean that she cannot fall in love with Xiangliu, but It's because she can't imagine that she and Xiang Liu will eventually get married.

Xiaoyao still had a dream of lovers finally getting married. She once prevented Xiang Liu from dreaming, but when Xiang Liu left, Fang Feng Bei came, and it was impossible to prevent him.

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windiaaa041293

@luv2bavangurl

"Who are you?"

"Who do YOU want me to be?"
These are instances where I wish XL was not so Yoda-like with his roundabout ways. It make great drama and great quotes but sucks for relationship

<Fangfeng Bei laughed, "Maybe I really have been a slave in the death arena."

Xiaoyao stared at him blankly for a while, then murmured, "Who are you?"

"Who do you want me to be?"

Xiaoyao put one hand on her heart, and slowly extended her other hand to place it on Fangfeng Bei's heart. His heart was beating at the same rhythm as hers. >

Xiang Liu exposed his identity on purpose. From Xiaoyao's perspective, she is immersed in the sweetness of love. From the reader's perspective, after my above analysis, it is clear that Xiaoyao loves both Xiang Liu and Fang Feng Bei as long as they are him. But it’s different from Xiang Liu’s point of view. At first, he changed his waistcoat and chased his girlfriend because he missed him unbearably and was afraid that Xiaoyao would ignore him if he knew he was Xiang Liu. He didn’t intend to keep cheating, but wanted to Find a suitable opportunity, such as Xiaoyao's anger disappears? Xiaoyao doesn't dislike him anymore?

As Fang Feng Bei, he had always made no secret of his love for Xiao Yao. Unexpectedly, after coaxing and coaxing, Xiao Yao seemed to fall in love with his current vest. Xiang Liu started to feel awkward and panicked: Lover Gu didn't respond because I knew She always loves me, but I can no longer tell which me she loves. If she falls in love with my vest(FFB), what should I do with my other vest(XL)?

"Who do you want me to be?"

Xiang Liu is testing Xiao Yao's attitude. If Xiao Yao answers "I hope you are Xiang Liu" at this time, it means that Xiao Yao is no longer angry with him or dislikes him, then he will definitely admit that he is Xiang Liu happily. , and then the two reunited and continued their sweet love.

<But now...she thinks he is Xiang Liu again. There is no reason or explanation. She just thinks he is. She said to Fangfeng Bei: "Our hearts beat together." She looked up at Fangfeng Bei, waiting for Fangfeng Bei to give her an explanation. >

Xiaoyao now has no time to think about who she wants him to be, but whether she wants it or not, the fact is that Fangfeng Bei is Xiang Liu. Xiaoyao waited for Fangfeng Bei to give her an explanation: Why have you lied to me all this time?

Xiang Liu's heart: She refused to answer me and even questioned me.

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liddi
 windiaaa041293:
(6) Xiang Liu’s lovesickness
Xiang Liu kills three eagles with one stone

Thank you for sharing this article. Very interesting concepts presented. I am not really certain that Xiang Liu's theft of the map was predominantly to distract Cang Xuan's royal uncles to smooth the way for Cang Xuan. I am more inclined to think that the stolen map was first and foremost to serve the Shen Nong rebel army well, providing them with much required provisions. The fact that it  helped Cang Xuan whom Xiao Yao fiercely protected, was a secondary and convenient consideration, since at the time, Cang Xuan was not a direct threat to the army.

I am intrigued by the possibility that Xiao Yao guessed the identity of the person who commissioned the bow, and by extension, realised Xiang Liu's substantial ties to the Guifang clan. I am curious too at the possibility that Xiang Liu had enough influence over the Guifang clan that they would throw their support behind Cang Xuan at his encouragement. If so, what happened towards the end that the Shen Nong army was cut off with no more secret help from any of the clans in the Middle Plains. 

I disagree with the 3rd point that was brought up though. I don't believe Xiang Liu entered Xiao Yao's chambers to see her reaction upon knowing Fangfeng Bei's real identity. He was badly wounded, one that would take him at least two days to heal with the help of her blood. In such circumstances, I highly doubt any thoughts of a romantic nature had anything to do with his visit. He required a place to hide and heal, and he trusted her implicitly with his life, even though they parted on bad terms previously. Another thing I disagree with is the claim that his motivations for approaching her as Fangfeng Bei was to show her that he too can be a lover to her. My take is that he was setting his plans in motion, the most important of which was to empower her so that she could finally protect herself and those she loved. Fangfeng Bei was his alter ego who can freely move about in Xuan Yuan and later the Middle Plains without suspicion. The times they spent apart from the archery lessons was to share happy and beautiful moments together, even if he knew that these times would not last. It never had anything to do with bringing himself back as a romantic option in her eyes. Remember his slip of the tongue, asking her to leave her identity as a princess and roam the world with him, and how he could not answer when she countered that she would if he could give up everything. He always knew he could not be there for the rest of her life, but he wanted their times together to be memorable, joyous ones while it lasted.

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