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Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

nathsketch VIP
 H19279:
I know that Fang Fang Bei is more suitable for you.

The only correct sentence that came out of that fox's mouth.

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windiaaa041293

Hi..
I know this is a bit unreasonable.
When Cx came to save XY... there Xy thought Cx was Jing who had returned.
Xy pressed her face against his chest so that xy could hear his heartbeat, xy felt comforted.
Throughout the book, we know that only XL's heartbeat can comfort xy.
Then when xy woke up in the next chapter, why didn't he ask where Jing was, why did xy instead ask about the condition of  left ear.

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blabla100

@H19279

From here:

https://www.classicchinesepoetry.com/2021/09/208/

@kokuto

Lol!

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HeadInTheClouds
 windiaaa041293:

@HeadInTheCloud

That scene with the Voodoo King supported that, IMO.  Now maybe you could argue that once the Lovers Bugs were removed, we can no longer claim that with certainty.

Yes..the scene with the Voodoo king.
If the lover bug allowed a person to love two people at the same time, the Voodoo king's reaction should not be scary.

Absolutely. I'm not insisting on this interpretation because I don't think you can't love 2 people at a similar time (although, there will definitely be a difference in these loves). But that scene made it clear that the Lovers Bugs required the couple to be "one-hearted/whole-heartedly", how can you claim to be whole-hearted when you have another lover in your heart? So Xiao Yao's feelings for Jing are affection and liking. After the removal of the Lovers Bugs, it's fair game. 

If Tong Hua really wanted the readers to invest in YaoJing's love story, then she could have left out the Lovers Bugs. Without the Lovers Bugs, it's a lot easier to dismiss XiaoLiu's relationship as unrequited on Xiang Liu's side. It's like she doesn't want YaoJing's loveline to succeed :-)

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HeadInTheClouds
 windiaaa041293:

Hi..
I know this is a bit unreasonable.
When Cx came to save XY... there Xy thought Cx was Jing who had returned.
Xy pressed her face against his chest so that xy could hear his heartbeat, xy felt comforted.
Throughout the book, we know that only XL's heartbeat can comfort xy.
Then when xy woke up in the next chapter, why didn't he ask where Jing was, why did xy instead ask about the condition of  left ear.

Which chapter was this in?

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H19279
 HeadInTheClouds:

Which chapter was this in?

It was the end of chapter 44.  XY got up in chapter 45

@Windiaaa041293

I know this is a bit unreasonable.
When Cx came to save XY... there Xy thought Cx was Jing who had returned.
Xy pressed her face against his chest so that xy could hear his heartbeat, xy felt comforted.
Throughout the book, we know that only XL's heartbeat can comfort xy.
Then when xy woke up in the next chapter, why didn't he ask where Jing was, why did xy instead ask about the condition of  left ear 

I re-read that part several times. I have no doubt that she thought of Jing when she saw that flowers. Hebicus flowers and leaves linked to her memory of washing hair between Jing and XY. Maybe hearing the heartbeat could calm her down because she got used to hearing heatbeat from XL during her heartache time. When she woke up she did not ask for Jing because the previous day she had so high fever that she had a kind of illusion/delussion of Jing's appearance, she said it in semi-unconscious stage of mind.

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windiaaa041293

@HeadInTheClouds @H19279

I think so too, she does think of Jing...it's just that there are similarities with XL in some ways.
Oh yes... for the hair washing scene, there is an analysis that has something to do with XL. Previously she always used honey locust or something, I forget... but after meeting FFBei, she started using hibiscus. And where the hibiscus grows was also discussed. I'm not really sure about that.


Note : hibiscus can also darken hair.

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luv2bafangurl

@H191279

nice catch there on the scenery comparison between Xl leaving an XY-TSJ leaving at the end of the novel. It‘ll help ease my pain when I finally can bring myself to read the novel, to know that TH even gave XL a beautiful goodbye scenery. Of course he also has his epic death scene but that is another story.

I also love your direct comparison of what a good companionship is according to XL and what XY got at the end with TSJ. It‘s ironic that she due to her traumas on one hand had such ridiculous high demand of a life partner who‘ll always put her first (which no one can fulfill) but on the other hand settling for the lowest bar of companionship (because like XL said, it‘s not hard to find a companion). To be fair Jung will treat her wholeheartedly, but her long life with him won‘t be interesting as many of you pointing out already the have basically zero hobbies/interest, which both of them enjoy. The poor girl maybe will be bored to death after the first several hundreds of years.

Having a partner who defer to you on every decision can look romantic at the beginning but it’ll going to be annoying in long term imo. Imagine having to constantly answering to questions like: what do you want to eat dear, what should we do now dear, where are we going now dear? Do you want to stay here longer or should we continue our journey tomorrow dear, etc =/. It’ll drive me bonkers in no time LOL. Imho a good relation also need that push and pull, whereas a relationship where one partner who just accept everything the other does out of love can be stale quick. And we haven‘t even dive onto how tiring and scary it can be psychologically to have your partner attaches/ties his whole existence and self worth on you. When you angry with him, it‘ll feel like you kick a puppy and you‘ll feel guilty, it‘ll mess up with your head in the long run as well, as you don‘t don‘t feel like you can be angry or dissatisfied with your partner when he‘s been so accommodating and self sacrificing.  I‘m dramatizing now, so I‘ll stop here. 

@blabla100

the Poems are depressing/heavy but really apt to describe XL and XY unfulfilled love story, especially this part. 

Now each of us is alone,
And today is nothing like yesterday.
My painful soul swings back and forth like a heavy rope.
The horns at dawn sound cold, and the night will end soon.
I’m afraid people will ask why I’m sad.
I pretend to be happy, smiling instead of crying,
My life is all hiding, hiding, hiding

Even the sound of horns at dawn sound cold, which I interpreted that the idea of new day (dawn is pretty and normally uplifting, symbol for hope) is depressing instead of uplifting. She‘s dreading another day where she must pretend to be happy. Now I‘m back on pitying Xy instead of hating her. This story really gives me mood swing.

Thank you all for posting, translating and explaining the poems in the novel. This is something a non chinese speaker like me won‘t be able to understand and appreciate without your kind help. My favorite is the poem from the last chapter (I think) about the farewell of a general to his wife, It got me teary eyed and the parallel to XL-XY is so beautiful.

PS: It‘s started snowing here yesterday and you ladies know who all that snow reminds me of. Sigh, there no escape from XL.

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windiaaa041293

@HeadInTheCloud @H19279

in "A Dream of Red Mansions", Qingwen is the shadow of Daiyu, and Xiren is the shadow of Baochai.

It's True?

Previously we already knew that CX and Xinyue were shadows of XY and Jing...
then there are those who analyze that Ah Nian is XL's shadow.

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nathsketch VIP
 luv2bafangurl:
Having a partner who defer to you on every decision can look romantic at the beginning but it’ll going to be annoying in long term imo. Imagine having to constantly answering to questions like: what do you want to eat dear, what should we do now dear, where are we going now dear? Do you want to stay here longer or should we continue our journey tomorrow dear, etc =/. It’ll drive me bonkers in no time LOL. Imho a good relation also need that push and pull, whereas a relationship where one partner who just accept everything the other does out of love can be stale quick. And we haven‘t even dive onto how tiring and scary it can be psychologically to have your partner attaches/ties his whole existence and self worth on you. When you angry with him, it‘ll feel like you kick a puppy and you‘ll feel guilty, it‘ll mess up with your head in the long run as well, as you don‘t don‘t feel like you can be angry or dissatisfied with your partner when he‘s been so accommodating and self sacrificing. I‘m dramatizing now, so I‘ll stop here.

Just reading about it makes me so incredibly angry. Imagine having to live with a guy like this for centuries.

thank u, next.

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windiaaa041293

@liddi..^^

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作为一个文科生，我想我还是可以勉强说一说的。《长相思》是作者的炫技的作品，作者用她考上北大的脑子，给我们尽情展现了她越发成熟的写作技巧，如同电影中恰到好处的特效，巧妙地在真相面前设置了层层幻影。作者憋着使坏，憋着得意，好让读者看起来像雾中花，水中月，真真看不清白。草灰蛇线，伏脉千里在中国古典文学中常用的手法，可以作为暗线的线索，可以用之为隐喻和象征，可以作为伏笔，作者把它生生玩出一朵花来。作者大量的使用这个手法，我只举一例。比如说那轮圆月代表的默默情思，是相柳携着小六的手相望共奏的生命的序曲，后期又成为小夭和涂山璟月下踏歌时对未来的希冀。（有人举证在大涡流的时候，因为时间对不上，她和涂山璟月下踏歌是假的，只是因为她生气当时相柳对她的冷淡和嘲讽，为了维护自己的尊严编撰的）一般一部文学作品中意象是很少改变的，作者却把一个始终出现圆月，反复的折腾，目的很纯粹，她就是要混淆读者的判断。圆月的隐喻到底是相柳还是涂山璟？小夭月圆之夜思念到底是谁？她为何要选择圆月之夜自杀？就算这些障碍物，作者最后还是要把真相巧妙的半含半露的在不经间告诉你，小夭在玉山上，陷入生无可恋之时，满天绯红的桃花影下，仍呆呆看着栏下的水中月，因为有了水，相柳是海妖，又因为月下踏歌是假的，圆月之时她思念的还是相柳。推理小说家常用误导法来推进进程，放出错误的红鲱鱼，让主角跟着这个错误的思路追踪下去，误导观众。而在《长相思》的时候，在处理小夭的心之所属的时候，涂山璟就是那条红鲱鱼。比如说小夭吐血，在《忽有悲风调》这个章节，她就放了两个情节，一个是相柳说小夭出师了，一个是她得知防风意映怀孕的事，回去吐血。她吐血绝对不会仅仅为了涂山璟，不然作者设计这个章节名字和两个没干系的情节放一块就没有意义。比如说小夭慢悠悠的从香料店出来，她顾不上被污水溅湿的脸去捡那些香料，碰到了已婚涂山璟，突然间崩溃了。想的是我一直告诉自己忘记一个男人不是什么难事。然后她辗转去了赌场放纵。相柳问她何人让她心烦。小夭对相柳说出了答案：远在天边，近在眼前。那个让她忘不掉的男人还是相柳，而不是她不久前遇到的涂山璟，相柳懂了，此后相柳告诉她不能和她在一起的理由。她和相柳隔门对望，深情就要溢出来了。同理的还有她被防风邶抢婚后，小夭找涂山璟反思感情的一大段话，说我们面对自己的感情都犯了错，让我失去自己喜欢的人。她用的是自己感情而不是我们的感情。还有她被追杀，她看到木槿叶，想起了涂山璟，却在心跳声中安了心。（只有相柳的心跳让她安心过）另外作者还采用了明暗线并行的结构，这种结构最好的作用就是可以形成对比，重叠，映衬，交叉。明暗线的情感是互通的，作者隐去了大部分小夭对相柳的心理描写，巧妙借此处理了小夭对涂山璟和对相柳的感情。小夭对于涂山璟是利用，是安心，是恩义和感动，至于相柳是爱而不敢爱的屏蔽，然后用紧紧的时间差把他们的情感重叠起来，交叉起来。比如说小夭拒绝相柳的渡气以后，第二天立刻去找涂山璟，发现他和防风意映就着手喝酒，她开始发疯喝酒。比如说她送了相柳鱼戏荷叶间，目送着相柳离开，晚上她又喝醉酒，然后去吻了涂山璟。她仅仅只是为了涂山璟？最明显的一次重叠就是防风意映怀孕以后，小夭夜不能寐，夜夜露宿中宵，枯坐到天明。她是仅仅为了涂山璟吗？不是，在忽闻悲风调以后，两根线索重叠了很久，她有一半多的原因为了相柳要离开她在难受，作者在2013年版的书序中有一句话：相思难解，唯有相伴可以暂慰。然后作者就写了在这个期间相柳带小夭去放纵，在海底的大贝壳里小夭难的睡了一个好觉，还甜甜的笑出声音。此外作者的晴为黛影，大量留白，大量细节，还有闲笔，以至于一写两鸣，不写而写。相柳的番外也可以算作是补叙的叙事手法，繁花锦簇，暗线汹涌，在最后才彻底揭开了相柳的面纱。此文各种艺术手法都有略略涉及，简直是汇集了桐华所有的技术。其次精彩还有人设，我觉得写的最真实的是小夭，写的最吸引人的是相柳。从文学生的角度，我反而觉得小夭写的最好。

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H19279
 nathsketch:
Just reading about it makes me so incredibly angry. Imagine having to live with a guy like this for centuries.


 luv2bafangurl:
And we haven‘t even dive onto how tiring and scary it can be psychologically to have your partner attaches/ties his whole existence and self worth on you. When you angry with him, it‘ll feel like you kick a puppy and you‘ll feel guilty, it‘ll mess up with your head in the long run as well, as you don‘t don‘t feel like you can be angry or dissatisfied with your partner when he‘s been so accommodating and self sacrificing.  I‘m dramatizing now, so I‘ll stop here. 

I think this excerpt is best describled for this feeling. LOL Jing is like XY's favourite duck neck. Haha, before her wedding with FL, she came to Qing Qiu to give Jing duck neck as farewell gift (he also made or bought duck neck for XY. The duck neck was her favourite snack. However if she had to eat it everyday, she would be fed up with it quickly. 

Xiao Yao didn’t know how long she had been in the darkness, and she didn’t know how much longer she needed to be there. She was trapped in forever, and Xiao Yao realized for the first time how scary forever was. Just like eating duck neck was a really enjoyable thing to do, but if eating duck neck became something she did forever without an end, then it’s not enjoyable at all and would instead be a truly scary torture. (Chapter 22)

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H19279

@Windiaaa041293

It is not as good as @Liddi's translation. However, for your information, it is still quite understandable

As a humanities student, I think I can still reluctantly say something. "Lost you forever" is the author's brilliant work. The author used her brain when she was admitted to Peking University to show us her increasingly mature writing skills. Like the right special effects in the film, she skillfully set up layers of illusions in front of the truth. The author tries to be mischievous and proud, in order to make the reader look like a flower in the mist and a moon in the water, truly unable to see the truth. Grass snake ash line, a technique commonly used in Chinese classical literature, can be used as a clue to hidden thread, a metaphor and symbol, and a foreshadowing. The author plays it out vividly to create a blossom. The author extensively uses this technique, and I will only give one example. For example, the silent emotions represented by the full moon are the prelude to life played by Xiang Liu and Xiao Liu's hand, and later become the hope for the future when Xiao Yao and Tu Shanjing step down under the moon. (Some people have provided evidence that during the whirlpool scene, due to time mismatch, her singing about TSJ under the moon was fake, just because she was angry at Xiangliu's indifference and ridicule towards her at the time, in order to maintain her dignity.) Generally, the imagery in a literary work rarely changes, but the author repeatedly twists and turns a full moon with a pure purpose of confusing the reader's judgment. Is the metaphor of the full moon Xiangliu or Tu Shanjing? Who is Xiaoyao missing on the night of the full moon? Why did she choose to commit suicide on the night of the full moon? Despite these obstacles, the author still wants to cleverly reveal the truth to you in a half hidden and half exposed way. On Jade Mountain, when Xiaoyao fell into a state of despair, under the shadow of crimson peach blossoms in the sky, she still stared blankly at the water moon under the railing. Because of the water, Xiangliu is a sea demon, and because singing under the moon is fake, what she misses at the full moon is still Xiangliu. Mystery novelists often use misleading methods to advance the process, releasing the wrong red herring and allowing the protagonist to follow the wrong train of thought, misleading the audience.

In "Lost you forever", Tu Shanjing was the red herring when dealing with Xiao Yao's heart. For example, when Xiaoyao vomited blood, in the chapter "Suddenly Sad Wind Tune", she added two plots: one was Xiang Liu saying that Xiaoyao had graduated from school, and the other was when she learned about Fangfeng Yiying's pregnancy and went back to vomit blood. She will definitely not vomit blood just for Tu Shanjing, otherwise the author's design of the chapter name and two unrelated plots together would be meaningless. For example, Xiaoyao came out of the spice store slowly, ignoring her face soaked in sewage to pick up those spices. She met married Tu Shanjing and suddenly broke out. "What I'm thinking is that I have alway told myself it's not difficult to forget a man". Then she went to the casino to indulge. Xiangliu asked her who was bothering her. Xiao Yao said the answer to Xiang Liu: far away in the sky, close in front of her. The man she couldn't forget was still Xiang Liu, not the Tu Shanjing who she met not long ago. Xiang Liu understood and later told her the reason why he couldn't be with her. She looked at Xiangliu across the door, and her deep affection was about to overflow. Similarly, after she was robbed of her marriage by Fangfeng Bei, Xiaoyao talked to Tu Shanjing about a long period of reflection on her feelings, saying that we made mistakes when facing our own feelings, which made me lose the person I like. She uses her own emotions instead of ours.

She was also being chased. When she saw the hibiscus leaves, she thought of Tu Shanjing, but felt relieved in the sound of her heartbeat. (Only Xiangliu's heartbeat made her feel at ease) In addition, the author also adopted a parallel structure of light and dark lines, which can best create contrast, overlap, contrast, and intersection. The emotions of the light and dark lines are intertwined, and the author conceals most of Xiao Yao's psychological descriptions of Xiang Liu, cleverly handling Xiao Yao's emotions towards Tu Shanjing and Xiang Liu through this. Xiaoyao is using Tu Shanjing, it's reassuring, it's kindness and touching. As for Xiangliu, she is blocking her love and not daring to love, and then using a tight time difference to overlap and cross their emotions. For example, after Xiaoyao refused Xiangliu's cross breath, she immediately went to find Tu Shanjing the next day and found him drinking with Fangfeng Yiying. She went crazy and started drinking. For example, she sent Xiangliu fish to play among the lotus leaves, watched Xiangliu leave, got drunk again at night, and then went to kiss Tu Shanjing. Is she just for Tu Shanjing? The most obvious overlap is that after Fangfeng Yiying got pregnant, Xiaoyao couldn't sleep at night, stayed overnight in the open air, and sat there until dawn. Is she just for Tu Shanjing? No, after hearing the sad wind tune, the two clues overlapped for a long time. She felt more than half of the reason for Xiangliu's departure. In the preface of the 2013 edition of the book, the author said: "Lost you forever" is difficult to understand, only companionship can temporarily comfort her. Then the author wrote that during this period, Xiang Liu took Xiao Yao to indulge, and Xiao Yao managed to have a good sleep in the big shell at the bottom of the sea, and even laughed sweetly. In addition, the author used Qing as Dai's shaddow [1], with a lot of blank space, a lot of details, and idle brushstrokes, to the point of writing twice without writing. Xiangliu's storytelling can also be considered as a supplementary narrative technique, with clusters of flowers and turbulent dark lines, which finally completely unveils Xiangliu's veil. This article has a brief introduction to various artistic techniques, which is simply a collection of all the techniques of Tonghua. Secondly, there is also the character design, and I think the most realistic one is Xiao Yao, while the most attractive one is Xiang Liu. From the perspective of a literary student, I actually think Xiao Yao wrote the best.

[1]: referred to Dream of the Red Chamber; Qingwan was compared as Daiyu's shaddow (Thank @Liddi for clarification)

Note: Translated by Baidu, Google translate and Handbook learn Chinese smarter with personal correction

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HeadInTheClouds
 H19279:
Could he be the pillar for the familar? I am afraid of NOT. His future life would be attached to XY and her assistants (e.g., Miao Pu and Left Ear). He could just give a hand for the common living. Huh, why do I have a feeling that he would be like a parasite to XY.

The only pillar Jing is capable of being is a pillar of sand, collapsing at the first gust of trouble. By the novel's end, he's so dependent on Xiao Yao that he might as well be a parasite. Relying on her acceptance and affection for survival. He'll suck her dried in no time.

 H19279:
In the assassination event, when he saw XY died, instead of bringing her out of the maze and tried the best to save her, he just transfered the spiritual power recklessly, without thinking. And then holding her in the fire to die with XY (of course thank to his power transfer, her body was protected). But he was weak and surrendered. While CX and XL tried their best to save XY, he slept for 37 years

The whole 37-year thing will never be anything other than a black mark against him. There is no way to look at that situation that would show Jing in a good light. It captured his character perfectly -  spineless and incompetent. In the end, it was Xiao Yao who had to save him. This is their relationship in a nutshell. Any adversity that they face in the future, Xiao Yao will have to be the one to deal with the issue because Jing is not capable. 

 H19279:
She had affection to him, but in my opinion, it was not love. The description about XY in the character diagram just says "Her lifelong wish is to have someone who wholeheartedly protects each other for life 相护. In the end, she marries Tushan Jing". No single word about what type of feeling for him. I just rewatched eps 33 when Jing woke up from 37 years of coma. XY was emotionally said "But they all abandoned me for various reason. I'm really very happy that you can't abandon me".

Even her conversation with A-Heng was the same; he was the only one who never left me. Xiao Yao's abandonment issues run deep and all her choices came from that.

 H19279:
How could a person in XY position have such limited social network. She was lonely person even when among family and friends. She did not feel compatible with socializing.

it's part of her psychological shortcomings. Xiao Yao is insecure, mistrustful of people and fearful of being left behind again. All of this means that she doesn't open herself to other people. Xiao Yao operates from a place of fear, from a loss-minimizing stance. She won't take a chance unless she can be sure that she won't lose anything. She has no confidence in her ability to deal with losing a loved one and making it through to the other side. Her world is very narrow because of it - you don't risk, you don't lose, but it also means that you don't stand to gain anything either. At least anything worthwhile, you'll settle for whatever crumbs are left over.

 H19279:
She married Jing. Would he be capable of protecting her? Would it bring her happiness, make her life road interesting and enjoyable?

The answer to the first question is no. She'll be lucky if he doesn't drag her down with him, let alone protect her. Their relationship has always been about her protecting him, and solving problems for him. The second question - is Xiao Yao even looking for happiness? To me, it seems like what she wants is the bare minimum in life - to not be abandoned. Dreaming big is not Xiao Yao's thing. See my comment above on her not being willing to risk anything. It's a sad way to live, IMO.

 H19279:
Even if I have no position in your life, if all I am is your slave, then that is fine with me. I just want to be by your side and look after you.”


 H19279:
All I want is someone who would hold me tightly and never abandon me no matter what!” Xiao Yao’s forehead was pressed against Jing’s forehead “You can’t let me go, I really like that!”

Such a healthy relationship these two have. *snort*

 MayaDavid:
He played some role in helping XY get closure with her mom right? I can't remember reading many memorable moments with Jing, but Jing begging Grand Emperor to tell XY about her parents was one redeeming moment.

I guess when you don't have much sparkling quality, you need to grab onto any redeeming moment you can get :-)

 windiaaa041293:
His brain went online after he eavesdropped on XL and XY's conversation at Lirong's house. Didn't XL let him hear it on purpose, so he could learn?

Lol at the "his brain went online. So incompetent that even needed Xiang Liu to teach him how to comfort Xiao Yao

 H19279:
He brought XY out for travel, pampering her that made her feel like a kid. Did FFB help her to discover Xuan Yuan or the Middle Plains before? Jing mimiced FFB's activity with XY again? XY-FFB were true companionship, equally enjoyed the discovery. In case of Jing, he worked as planner, took care of everything like a tour guide operator.

You guys need to stop. First, "his brain went online", now Jing is a tour guide operator! Lol. 

I think that sequence showed how different YaoLiu and YaoJing's relationships are. The first is about equal partnership, exploring and travelling the world together. The second is about spoiling, and pampering my little lady with my family's wealth and power. There are people out there who would prefer the second option. Too bad, when Jing becomes 17 at the end, he can no longer offer this.

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HeadInTheClouds
 MayaDavid:

I have a question related to the lover's bug.  In Chapter 32, the pain XY felt from XL is described as "heart cut with a sword".  The description sounds like a physical pain rather than something coming from heartbreak. Do you think that this is due to lover's bugs retaliating in XL, causing physical pain? The drama showed the bugs attacking XL when he was looking at XY and Jing at the beach as well.  

So I have read through that scene in Chapter 32. This was the one where Xiang Liu warned Xiao Yao about revealing his identity, right?  And as a warning he caused her to experience pain? Given the context, I think that it's possible that it was actual physical pain that Xiang Liu was inducing. I'm thinking about Xiang Liu saying that a powerful Voodoo master can control poisonous bugs to kill someone miles away. Given Xiang Liu's ability and the way that he's able to control their shared Bugs, I think it's possible for him to control it to cause physical pain.

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