I can't wait for tomorrow Hi6 episode. So excited to watch him.plor20:
All the clips I've seen have been fantastic! Going to try and watch the whole episode, even without subs, cause alot of the comedy does not need translation.
The drama scene with Wang Yuwen was fantastic!
And of course, his performance of The Darkest Hour was hot! The 18K fans out of 300K reserved who get tickets to his concert are lucky indeed.
liddi:
To be honest, I cannot figure out how WeTV does their compilations.
They did a two part compilation for S1 for each of the ships, with YaoXuan and YaoJing clearly having the most footage - almost 5.5 hours each, while YaoLiu had less than 5 hours.
YaoXuan's S2 footage is clearly a lot more with 2.5 hours footage vs a little more than 1.5 hours for YaoLiu. Yet their S1+S2 compilation came up to less than YaoLiu? How is that possible?
I have not seen any YaoJing S2 compilation yet - be it an individual S2 footage, or the total S1+S2 compilation.
YaoLiu YaoXuan YaoJing S1 Part 1 2:26:51 2:44:25 3:25:53 S1 Part 2 2:20:43 2:43:19 1:58:45 S1 total 4:47:33 5:27:44 5:24:38 S2 1:37:29 2:30:41 1:57:25 S1 + S2 6:25:02 7:58:25 7:22:03 S1 + S2 compilation 5:55:27 5:52:28
WeTV does their compilations BADLY. ;p
Seriously, their editing is ... not good.
Man, that's half an hour difference in the whole compilation and the individual YaoLiu compilation! And TWO HOURS for YaoXuan???
You know, they did two versions of the season 1 compilations? Now I need to go check and see what the running time is on both of them.
Chi You knew that Zhu Yu was stealing his half of the jade egg while he and Ah Heng were in bed, but instead of confronting Zhu Yu he waited and followed Ah Heng and saw her give her half of the jade egg to Zhu Yu?AH :
Yes. He wanted to prove that A Heng's loving words were all just a lie to get the jade egg.
You were rooting for Ah Heng to be with Shao Hao? Even though she felt that Shao Hao valued her less than half of the jade egg?
Yes. When Chi Chen confronted A Heng over her alleged deceit regarding the jade egg, deliberately humiliated her with offensive words ("When you were pretending to moan under me, were you thinking about whether your maid had successfully stolen the He Tu and Luo Shu?”), and in spite of her pleas, forced her to watch as her brothers were being burnt to death by Yan Zhuan and Hong Jiang. Although Chi Chen began to regret it when he saw A Heng's reaction as she stared at her brothers dying before her eyes, it was Shao Hao who had been healing underwater in the pool, who managed to burst out a huge water dragon to counter the flames and free A Heng from being trapped in Chi Chen's vines. Not enough with watching her suffer, he then went on to make that terrible offer and crush her even further. Then his refusal to intervene when A Heng begged him to stop Yan Zhuan from going after Qing Yang would result in her death when she tried to stop Yan Zhuan alone, and later still chose to block the attack meant for him. Too late he would bitterly regret his actions of that day, when he watched A Heng die and plunge into Yu Abyss.
On the other hand, while it was deplorable to see Qing Yang and Shao Hao accept the offer, in the end, one had to consider the fact that their topmost consideration was their kingdom and their people. This, in comparison with Chi Chen who gave away the jade egg which Shen Nong wanted and treated Ah Heng in that manner because of her personal offence towards him, really convinced me that he, for all his passionate love for her, did not deserve her at all.
I can't tell you how much I wish she had accepted Shao Hao after that. Shao Hao himself told her that he did not care that she was Chi Chen's lover. What he wanted was for them to be a true husband and wife. However, in the end, even he too, had to let her down. Nonetheless, every single time he did it, it was never out of jealousy for Chi Chen or to try and break them up, but consideration for Gao Xin and the people he had sworn to protect. If anything, his love for Xiao Yao won my approval. And when he had to refuse A Heng's pleas for an army to save Zhong Yi, he forged her writing and sent a letter asking for help to Chi Chen, even though he knew that in doing so, it would mean that he was paving a way for A Heng and Chi Chen to reunite once more.
XY basically had four suitors. Did Ah Heng ever have other suitors, apart from Chi You and Shao Hao? Or maybe it would've been too crowded if Ah Heng had more suitors, since her story also included her brothers?
No. It was always only Chi Chen and Shao Hao, and even then, Shao Hao was never a serious contender because early on in the novel, despite being betrothed since her childhood, Shao Hao took pains to draw the line between them so that she never felt romantically moved by anything he did for her. Qing Yang's words to A Heng should explain this reasoning a little, since she was a Xuan Yuan princess who was betrothed to a Gao Xin prince, and one day, their nations would go to war against each other:
Qing Yang walked to the window and looked at the mulberry grove outside. “What do you think of Shao Hao?”
Fourth Brother had already asked this question in the morning, but A Heng could not use the same answer to brush off Eldest Brother. She could only ponder seriously, but the more she thought about it, the more troubled she became.
Qing Yang waited a long time without receiving an answer from A Heng, but this silence was an answer in itself. He chuckled, “Shao Hao is very impressive. As long as he wishes, there isn’t a woman in the world who would be willing to reject him.” A Heng’s face slowly turned red, and Qing Yang turned to look at his sister. “But you have to be that one woman in the world who must reject him and cannot like him.”
Utterly shocked, A Heng blurted out, “Why? Aren’t you good friends?”
“Qing Yang and Shao Hao are friends, but Xuanyuan Qing Yang and Gaoxin Shao Hao may not necessarily be. You should know that Royal Father is eager to unify the Central Plains and even the world. You never know when Shao Hao and I will meet on the battlefield and try our best to kill each other.” Qing Yang’s lips curved into a faint smile, as if he were casually saying, “Ah, the weather might be bad tomorrow.”
A Heng’s face lost its blush a little and turned pale. “But I still have to marry him because I am Xuanyuan Ba, and he is Gaoxin Shao Hao.”
“Yes, you still have to marry him. The only thing you can do is not to develop feelings for him.” Qing Yang snorted lightly, his eyes suddenly turning cold. “I thought Shao Hao would show some mercy because of our relationship, but I did not expect him to spend an entire night's effort on you.”
A Heng lowered her head and said softly, “It has nothing to do with him. I wanted to know more about him, so I took the initiative to get close to him. I know he likes wine, so I deliberately used it to spark his interest in conversation.”
Qing Yang walked up to A Heng, lifted her chin, and stared into her eyes with a serious expression. “Little sister, never do such dangerous things again! He is Gaoxin Shao Hao, the Gaoxin Shao Hao that even I am afraid of! He won’t always be kind enough to remind himself not to make you a chess piece in his hand because of our friendship...”
Tears welled up in A Heng’s eyes, but she stubbornly bit her lip.
Qing Yang said, “For me and Shao Hao, there are too many things in our hearts: family, country, the world, responsibilities, power... Women are not a priority. For your own sake, it’s best if you regard him as a stranger.”
Ah Heng sneered coldly, “I should should thank Eldest Brother, for helping me consider my situation so thoroughly. I do not know if you are more worried about Shao Hao making me a chess piece, or worried about me not being able to be a chess piece for you and Father.”
Qing Yang fell silent a long time before he said, “Whether you accept it or not, this is the reality. What can you do when your surname is Xuanyuan?” He opened the door and left.
Ah Heng wearily leaned against the couch, feeling a wave of desolation. Her mother and Fourth Brother always tried to shield her from all the dark struggles, hoping she would always be the carefree Xiling Heng. However her eldest brother constantly reminded her that her last name was Xuanyuan and her name was Ba, the princess of the Xuanyuan clan.
-- Once Promised Vol 1 Ch9
Later on, even though Shao Hao finally fell in love with her, it was too late anyway, and she never truly wavered long enough for their relationship to grow.
Would you say that Chi You basically correlates to XL, Shao Hao correlates a bit to Feng Long and a bit to TSJ, and Ah Heng's brothers sort of correlate to CX?
Well... not quite.
While Chi Chen and A Heng were clearly on opposing sides, Chi Chen never made any secret of his love for A Heng from the very beginning. And he asked her to go away with him various times. The one who could not leave was A Heng, because she wanted to protect her mother and Fourth Brother, and she forcibly cut ties, claiming she no longer loved him, and kept him in the dark about his child. Both A Heng and Chi Chen were always very clear where their priorities laid, and they made do with what they could, being bound by duty and responsibilities to their respective kingdoms. During the war between Zhong Yi and Yan Zhuan, Chi Chen came and helped the Xuan Yuan army against Yan Zhuan because A Heng asked for his help (actually it was Shao Hao who forged that appeal for help). However, he painfully sealed the spiritual powers in half of his body, because that was all he could give to help A Heng and the Xuan Yuan army against Yan Zhuan and the Shen Nong army, and that was his way of honouring his loyalty to Yu Xiang, and his promise to live and die with the woman he loved.
In the case of YaoLiu, he kept his love for her a secret up to the very end, protecting her in every way that he could. Xiao Yao was fiercely loyal to Cang Xuan and was afraid to allow Xiang Liu into her heart, not realising that he was already in there to begin with - as proven by the lovers bugs they shared. When at last Cang Xuan was king, she was the one who wanted him to take her hand in spite him refusing to confess his love, but we know how he responded. He never gave her any promises, because he would never promise something he could not keep. As such, both of them never had the assurance that A Heng and Chi Chen had - the surety of their love for each other. While Chi Chen and A Heng were always held up as a cautionary tale for why Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu should not be together, I think aside from their opposing stances, they are two very different couples, and two very different situations.
Chi Chen was ready to leave the Shen Nong army once he wins the war against Xuan Yuan, to lead a happy, peaceful life with A Heng and Xiao Yao, and A Heng was ready to join him. He waited for hundreds of years until she was free to go with him, and asked her repeatedly in the interim. She finally announced her love for him to the world, after years of denying it.
Xiang Liu would never abandon the Shen Nong resistance army - an army bound for death - and as such, did not want Xiao Yao to be with him, knowing he could not promise her what she wanted, which was someone to rely on for life. Xiao Yao was never given the hope of a life with him despite her efforts to fight for it. And she would never have the chance to announce her love for him.
As for Shao Hao, I don't see any similarity between him and Feng Long or Jing. He is a far better written character, morally grey yet fascinating and compelling. His brotherhood with Qing Yang is one of the greatest highlights of the novel. Feng Long's with Cang Xuan, or Jing's with Lirong Chang has nothing over Shao Hao and Qing Yang. Perhaps there might be some similarity with Cang Xuan, but ultimately Shao Hao will never allow romantic love to distract him from what is right for his nation. He may be a poor friend, son and husband, but he was an exemplary father and king.
WeTV final compilation of YaoJing footage is equivalent to what was manually calculated ~7hrs 21mins.
In other words, YaoLiu and in particular YaoXuan final compilation was severely decreased.
To be honest, I cannot figure out how WeTV does their compilations.
They did a two part compilation for S1 for each of the ships, with YaoXuan and YaoJing clearly having the most footage - almost 5.5 hours each, while YaoLiu had less than 5 hours.
YaoXuan's S2 footage is clearly a lot more with 2.5 hours footage vs a little more than 1.5 hours for YaoLiu. Yet their S1+S2 compilation came up to less than YaoLiu? How is that possible?
I have not seen any YaoJing S2 compilation yet - be it an individual S2 footage, or the total S1+S2 compilation.
YaoLiu YaoXuan YaoJing S1 Part 1 2:26:51 2:44:25 3:25:53 S1 Part 2 2:20:43 2:43:19 1:58:45 S1 total 4:47:33 5:27:44 5:24:38 S2 1:37:29 2:30:41 1:57:25 S1 + S2 6:25:02 7:58:25 7:22:03 S1 + S2 compilation 5:55:27 5:52:28 7:21:28
I agree with you that minimizing her grief was one of XL's objectives for treating her the way he did, but I don't think his intention was to get her to hate him (because that would have caused to PLBs to retaliate).solarlunareclipse:
Tbh, I don't think hatred, a lack of love, or love for another person causes the bugs to retaliate / backfire / turn into Heartbreak Bugs. I think heartbreak is the trigger. Sometimes heartbreak can have overlap with those other things, but not always.
My theory is that if one party is heartbroken over the other person and wants to stop loving that person, the lovers bug will retaliate, irrespective of whether the other person had or had not fallen out of love. I also think that if one party had fallen out of love for the other person, the lovers bug will definitely retaliate.
Xiang Liu could control the bugs - both hers and his, which was why she could never sense his feelings and pain unless he allows it, or drops his guard. (TJC Studio's "Chapter 2 - The Story of a Walnut" actually has a very interesting explanation about the lovers bug and how Xiang Liu was able to control both bugs.)
As such, my theory is that even if Xiao Yao had fallen out of love with Xiang Liu and ended up hating him after the confrontation at Gourd Lake, he would have been able to suppress the lovers bugs so that they did not retaliate until such time when he destroyed them.
In the drama, it was in danger of retaliation when he was heartbroken seeing her and Jing outside Dragon Bone prison, but he successfully suppressed it using his spiritual powers. The retaliation did not happen because she stopped loving him - if she did, it would have retaliated way before, when she told him he was not suitable to enter her dreams. I believe the retaliation happened because at that moment, he wanted to stop loving her.
By the same token, he did not have to suppress the bugs when their relationship was severed at Gourd lake, because their love for each other still remained unchanging, regardless of how devastated they were at the time, so there was no retaliation to speak of. However, in that moment, Xiang Liu's suffering would have been twofold - his own grief, compounded with hers, one which she could not feel because he blocked it from her.
I have to say, character growth or not, I'm not a fan of Chi Chen. I think A Heng would have had a much more stable life with Shao Hao. Both she and her children would have fared better since King Xuan Yuan wouldn't have manipulated her into go to war against Shennong if she didn't have ties to Chi Chen.
I'm not a fan of Chi Chen as well. If anything, I like Shao Hao more, even though he ultimately let her and everyone else he cared about down. He did offer her and Xiao Yao stability during the early years. The fact that he would acknowledge Xiao Yao as his own, speaks volumes to his love for A Heng. But I disagree that A Heng would not have been a pawn of the Yellow Emperor. Even though she was the royal consort of Gao Xin, it did not negate the fact that Chi Chen loves her. As such, if the Yellow Emperor could see any way to use her to gain advantage over the Shen Nong army through Chi Chen, he would have done so. See how he manipulated Gao Xin into supporting Xuan Yuan during their war against Shen Nong by enabling the Five Princes Revolt, even though Shao Hao was determined to stay neutral. A Heng would never be free of the politics, whether as a Xuan Yuan princess, or a Gao Xin Royal Consort. Qing Yang himself already warned her as much when he told her not to fall in love with Shao Hao even if she married him, because he clearly knew that one day, she would be caught in the crossfire when Xuan Yuan and Gao Xin goes to war too.
I just wonder if there was anything Shao Hao could have done earlier on to get her to choose him and forget Chi Chen. If Shao Hao had made the choice to be a real husband and wife after they initially got married, would that have changed the course of their relationship?
It is a possibility. I believe that had Shao Hao chosen to treat her as his wife rather than just a political ally, A Heng would have done her best to move on from Chi Chen. Since he did not, she kept her heart and body faithful to Chi Chen, while enjoying a good relationship with Shao Hao.
Of course, even if A Heng agreed to give their relationship an honest try, there's also the matter of Shao Hao later not sending reinforcements to help CX's parents in battle that ultimately caused her to divorce him. Did he at least have a very good reason to not help?
His hands were tied. As king, his priority was the welfare of his kingdom and people, and I understood his terrible dilemma. So he did the only thing he could - remained neutral as a nation, while forging A Heng's writing to ask Chi Chen for help.
Shao Hao lowered his head and thought for a long time. If he saved Xuan Yuan today, who would save Gao Xin when Xuan Yuan attacked Gao Xin in the future?
:
Shao Hao hurriedly grabbed A Heng’s hand, trying to stop the bleeding. A Heng pushed his hand away, knelt at his feet and pleaded sorrowfully, “Please, lend me an army.”
Shao Hao felt his heart ache, and his face turned pale. “Why do you have to do this? Stop the bleeding first.” He wanted nothing more than to help A Heng, but he was the ruler of a nation. Any promise he made today would have no immediate consequence for him, but in the future, hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens of Gao Xin would pay for it with their lives.
Seeing that he was unwilling to agree, A Heng grew anxious and demanded sternly, “Who was it that said ‘From now on, I am Qing Yang’? My eldest brother would rather die himself than let anyone harm us.”
Qing Yang... Shao Hao’s body trembled, and his chest and lungs felt cold and hot, reminiscent of the pain and despair he felt when Qing Yang died. He wanted more than anyone to agree to A Heng’s request. He dared not even open his mouth, fearing that once he did, he would end up agreeing to her plea. His fists were clenched tightly, struggling to control his impulses. If he did not save Xuan Yuan today, he would no longer have the face to see Qing Yang in the crystal coffin again. He hated himself for his ingratitude. However, if he saved Xuan Yuan’s forces, he might not have let himself down but he would have let down Nuo Nai, who had risked his life and infiltrated the enemy camp; he would have let down An Rong and An Jin who followed him fervently; and he would have let down his own people, resulting in countless Gao Xin citizens being displaced and suffering a fate worse than death in the future.
-- Once Promised Vol 2 Ch10 (Chapter 13)
To me, her wearing red and him responding in kind is showing XL's love for XY (something that's not really debate due to TJC's on-point acting), not XY's love for XL (which is what is in debate). Although, I did love the part where she suddenly stood up expectantly when she thought she sensed him during her wait.
I don't see it this way. She had no reason whatsoever to wear red if she did not believe in the significance of wearing that colour during the 7-day wait. The fact that she wore red first was indicative of her love for him, her wanting to marry him, and she was clearly waiting for him, especially from her reaction when she saw the falling snow over the ocean. He could never answer her appeal, so what he did was wear red in response while watching her from far away, his silent answer to her if only he was free to take her hand.
Hrm, I watched the scene where she woke up from her nightmare and didn't see see her clutching her heart. She did clutch her heart after she learned of his death.
Her hand was over her heart when she woke up from the nightmare, an indication that her heart was bothering her.
The weeping during XL's death was appropriate and I felt that we could feel XY's grief for XY during that scene. And as you know, I absolutely hated the prolonged displays of irrationality, catatonia, and histrionics during Jing's disappearance. That said, when you compare the two diametrically opposing expressions of grief coming from the same person, I feel that Jing's disappearance had a more profound impact on Drama!XY than XL's death.
I agree about the overwrought theatrics that accompanied her reaction to Jing's disappearance. While such a pain to sit through, I think it showcases her finally pinning her hopes for a life she wanted on the man, only to have it taken away from her without warning. Xiang Liu never gave her any hope to begin with - if anything, he categorically crushed any hope she might have of being with him. So compare a man who promises her the world, getting her hopes up, only to take it away at the last minute, vs a man whom she loves deep down but refuses to give her any hope at all, so she never had anything to pin her hopes on. It would be understandable that the former would induce far greater reaction because all her hopes were crushed. With Xiang Liu, she always knew he would die, and yet when she finally learnt of his death, she could not control her profound grief even though she should have been prepared from the start.
still very much prefer XY's reactions in the book, where she is able to move on with her life as before after Jing's disappearance, but after XL's death, she couldn't go on hiding her feelings as before and she took to the sea and islands, places inextricably tied to XL.
Agreed. In the novel, Xiao Yao's reactions feels right.
His hands were tied. As king, his priority was the welfare of his kingdom and people, and I understood his terrible dilemma. So he did the only thing he could - remained neutral as a nation, while forging A Heng's writing to ask Chi Chen for help.
However, if he saved Xuan Yuan’s forces, he might not have let himself down but he would have let down Nuo Nai, who had risked his life and infiltrated the enemy camp; he would have let down An Rong and An Jin who followed him fervently; and he would have let down his own people, resulting in countless Gao Xin citizens being displaced and suffering a fate worse than death in the future.
The main reason is that Xuan Yuan was dominant at that time and they could defeat Shen nong soon. And Yellow emperor's ultimate target was to unify Dai Huang. Gaoxin was weaker than both Shen-nong and Xuan Yuan. Maintaining the 3 kingdoms was better for Gaoxin's future. At that time he also conducted some change in Gaoxin to improve its power and society to make the old styled country better and more more progressive. He already saw the drawback of the system and society in Gaoxin. When informing the matter to Chi Chen, he already knew he would lose A Heng forever. He also predicted that Chi Chen would help A Heng on his own for a few individuals (her brother) but would not change the outcome of that battle.
For clarity, I also think that it's clear that only lovers can produce Lovers Bugs, so none of this calls into question whether XL and XY loved each other when the bug was successfully planted in XL. And I personally believe that XY continued to have romantic feelings for XL until the end, even after he had thoroughly killed any hope she had of ever being with XL in a romantic relationship.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree that one of the requirements is that love is required at time of planting in order for the planting to be successful. And if anything their love had grown immensely by the time XL killed the bugs in the novel.
When they planted the bugs, there were dots of light.
"Huh?" Xiaoliu felt something strange in his hand, opened his hand, and saw the hickory nuts glowing and gradually melting, turning into tiny dots of light, flying around Xiaoliu and Xiangliu like fireflies. Slowly, half of it fell into Xiaoliu's palm, and the other half fell into Xiangliu's palm and disappeared, as if it had entered their bodies.
-- Vol 1 Ch 7 (Chapter 7)
When XL killed the bugs, there were countless lights.
As he chanted, one, two, three... countless blue fluorescent lights appeared, as if countless fireflies were flying around the two of them. Under the night sky and above the Jade Pool, the sky was full of fireflies, which were reflected in the water.
-- Vol 3 Ch 15 (Chapter 48)
If XL was able to control the bugs so that they would not turn into Heartbreak Bugs and would not kill him and XY, then he could be extremely cold and harsh towards XY (as he was in chapter 32 and chapter 46) without having to worry that his coldness and harshness might result in the bugs killing them both.
Xiang Liu could control the bugs - both hers and his, which was why she could never sense his feelings and pain unless he allows it, or drops his guard. (TJC Studio's "Chapter 2 - The Story of a Walnut" actually has a very interesting explanation about the lovers bug and how Xiang Liu was able to control both bugs.)
As such, my theory is that even if Xiao Yao had fallen out of love with Xiang Liu and ended up hating him after the confrontation at Gourd Lake, he would have been able to suppress the lovers bugs so that they did not retaliate until such time when he destroyed them.
Good points. I agree with both of you that there is ample evidence in the novel, the drama, and in the TJC MaoQiu extra that XL could control both bugs. As such, I also agree that XL would have been able to temporarily suppress the lovers bugs until he could kill them, had they started to turn into heartbreak bugs.
Tbh, I don't think hatred, a lack of love, or love for another person causes the bugs to retaliate / backfire / turn into Heartbreak Bugs. I think heartbreak is the trigger. Sometimes heartbreak can have overlap with those other things, but not always.
My theory is that if one party is heartbroken over the other person and wants to stop loving that person, the lovers bug will retaliate, irrespective of whether the other person had or had not fallen out of love. I also think that if one party had fallen out of love for the other person, the lovers bug will definitely retaliate.
My own theory tends to align more closely with liddi's theory here. I think hatred, lack of love, and romantic love for another person will all cause the bugs to retaliate. Specifically regarding romantic love for another person, since the bugs are primarily raised by very determined girls for their lovers, I highly doubt most girls would condone their lover falling in love romantically with another person, even if their lover still loved them as much as before.
As for Shao Hao, I don't see any similarity between him and Feng Long or Jing. He is a far better written character, morally grey yet fascinating and compelling. His brotherhood with Qing Yang is one of the greatest highlights of the novel. Feng Long's with Cang Xuan, or Jing's with Lirong Chang has nothing over Shao Hao and Qing Yang. Perhaps there might be some similarity with Cang Xuan, but ultimately Shao Hao will never allow romantic love to distract him from what is right for his nation. He may be a poor friend, son and husband, but he was an exemplary father and king.
I agree with this ^^^^ LYF really made me a fan of Shao Hao. He seems much more ambitious and capable than Jing, and better developed than CX. Although he was morally grey, his scheming and actions didn't leave the same bad aftertaste in my mouth as King Xuan Yuan's or Jing's because I didn't get the impression he did what he did for selfish reasons, and tried to avoid hurting the people he cared about.
A Heng would never be free of the politics, whether as a Xuan Yuan princess, or a Gao Xin Royal Consort.
That's sad. Poor A Heng. It seems like she was doomed to lead a tragic life no matter which path she had chosen.
I'm not a fan of Chi Chen as well. If anything, I like Shao Hao more, even though he ultimately let her and everyone else he cared about down. He did offer her and Xiao Yao stability during the early years. The fact that he would acknowledge Xiao Yao as his own, speaks volumes to his love for A Heng.
I agree. Official match be damned, I'm team Shao Hao! Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shao Hao seems thoughtful and selfless, traits I also admire about XL. Perhaps the degree of his thoughtfulness and selflessness are not to the same degree as XL, but still... In terms of temperament, I find XL to be a closer match to Shao Hao than Chi Chen.
His hands were tied. As king, his priority was the welfare of his kingdom and people, and I understood his terrible dilemma. So he did the only thing he could - remained neutral as a nation, while forging A Heng's writing to ask Chi Chen for help.
As I expected. Thanks for the details.
I don't see it this way. She had no reason whatsoever to wear red if she did not believe in the significance of wearing that colour during the 7-day wait. The fact that she wore red first was indicative of her love for him, her wanting to marry him, and she was clearly waiting for him, especially from her reaction when she saw the falling snow over the ocean.
Good point. Red symbolizes love and marriage, so XY wearing red during her wait symbolizes her love for XL and her desire to marry him. Agree that her reaction to the falling snow clearly showcased her yearning for XL to come get her.
Why couldn’t he have just afforded her an honest discussion that she so desperately needed? (I know, this is difficult to do given their character traits.) Maybe something along the lines of: “Hey, I know we are not suitable for each other. Our loyalties will very likely lead me to abandoning you–your worst fear. I just want you to be happy. But the unavoidable truth is that we have already fallen deeply for each other. So how should we proceed?” It’s not like they didn’t have the opportunity. Rather, they had multiple (ie. their time in the clamshell in chapter 26). This kind of keeping her in the dark no doubt added to her emotional turmoil/conflict.Rain_83223:
I agree with this ^^^. Both XL and XY need to sign up for @HeadInTheClouds's Communication 101 class.
That said, it wouldn't be a Tong Hua novel without tragic miscommunication. If all the characters handled their problems like rational adults, LYF would never gained the acclaim it has.
Was he so afraid that even opening up to her like this in the context of a plain conversation would cause them to uncontrollably fall even deeper? Why was he still so compelled to abide by his unilateral decision to cruelly distance himself despite seeing her like that? Was he fundamentally insecure too? Maybe I am being too naive and simplistic, maybe not. As selfless as XL was, I can’t help but feel that this part of him–the part that made the decision of what he thought was best for her while excluding her agency– was ultimately selfish.
I definitely agree with you and don't like XL's unilateral decision. Regardless of what he thought the outcome would be, I believe he would have caused XY less emotional damage if he laid everything on the table and then told her they still had to walk separate paths (e.g. didn't allow her to choose to be with him) because he wanted to set her up to be able to live well after he died.
I think most others on this forum would disagree with this opinion because they believe XY is too emotionally damaged to live on, and would choose to follow XL in death, had he confessed. There certainly are more than enough examples of her seemingly unstable and irrational behavior after Jing's disappearance and after finding out CX was responsible for Jing's disappearance.
That said, I don't think she intended to kill herself after Jing disappeared--she just wanted to do everything she possibly could to try to save him--even risking death by walking into what she most likely knew was an obvious trap. There's also the possibility that she walked into the trap partly in hopes that XL would come to save her and she could convince him to take her away.
As for her poisoning herself after finding out about CX's betrayal, I'm 100% convinced she did this in hopes of XL coming to save her and freeing her from the prison that CX had built for her. I believe she was very careful to make sure that whatever she did wouldn't hurt XL or cost him his life.
In both cases (albatross demon & phoenix forest poisoning), I don't think XY's primary objective was to commit suicide.
I wrote a post a while back mentioning both these incidents in relation to XY trying to open the window to try to be with XL: https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=3062193&page=607#p3062193
What bothers me is how so many jing's fans keep spreading misinformations on the mdl's main page, making it harder for people who know nothing about lyf to pick up the drama.blabla100:
Sorry to hear that. I now have first hand experience with dealing with unreasonable Jing fans since I've been posting comments on Tencent's YouTube channel as episodes from the latest season get released. Sometimes, my comments are met with a barrage of Jing fans saying things like: "So, you're just going to overlook the fact that when XL probed her mind, she picked Jing" When I take the time to explain the correct way to interpret XL's four questions to XY and how they prove XL is the one XY loves, they respond with: "You like to deal in interpretations and opinions; I like to deal in facts," while ironically, not backing up their statement with any "facts."
Of course, I can't say that I don't deserve the consternation of Jingers' since I often like to post instigating comments about Jing ;)
Yes. When Chi Chen confronted A Heng over her alleged deceit regarding the jade egg, deliberately humiliated her with offensive words ("When you were pretending to moan under me, were you thinking about whether your maid had successfully stolen the He Tu and Luo Shu?”), and in spite of her pleas, forced her to watch as her brothers were being burnt to death by Yan Zhuan and Hong Jiang. Although Chi Chen began to regret it when he saw A Heng's reaction as she stared at her brothers dying before her eyes, it was Shao Hao who had been healing underwater in the pool, who managed to burst out a huge water dragon to counter the flames and free A Heng from being trapped in Chi Chen's vines. Not enough with watching her suffer, he then went on to make that terrible offer and crush her even further. Then his refusal to intervene when A Heng begged him to stop Yan Zhuan from going after Qing Yang would result in her death when she tried to stop Yan Zhuan alone, and later still chose to block the attack meant for him. Too late he would bitterly regret his actions of that day, when he watched A Heng die and plunge into Yu Abyss.
On the other hand, while it was deplorable to see Qing Yang and Shao Hao accept the offer, in the end, one had to consider the fact that their topmost consideration was their kingdom and their people. This, in comparison with Chi Chen who gave away the jade egg which Shen Nong wanted and treated Ah Heng in that manner because of her personal offence towards him, really convinced me that he, for all his passionate love for her, did not deserve her at all.
O _ O Yikes...
I can't tell you how much I wish she had accepted Shao Hao after that. Shao Hao himself told her that he did not care that she was Chi Chen's lover. What he wanted was for them to be a true husband and wife. However, in the end, even he too, had to let her down. Nonetheless, every single time he did it, it was never out of jealousy for Chi Chen or to try and break them up, but consideration for Gao Xin and the people he had sworn to protect. If anything, his love for Xiao Yao won my approval. And when he had to refuse A Heng's pleas for an army to save Zhong Yi, he forged her writing and sent a letter asking for help to Chi Chen, even though he knew that in doing so, it would mean that he was paving a way for A Heng and Chi Chen to reunite once more.
That makes sense.
-- Once Promised Vol 1 Ch9
Thank you for the translation liddi. I've read a less precise and detailed translation of this scene and related scenes that preceed it. But this is a good reminder. I'd forgotten how cold Qing Yang seemed here.
Well... not quite.
While Chi Chen and A Heng were clearly on opposing sides, Chi Chen never made any secret of his love for A Heng from the very beginning. And he asked her to go away with him various times. The one who could not leave was A Heng, because she wanted to protect her mother and Fourth Brother, and she forcibly cut ties, claiming she no longer loved him, and kept him in the dark about his child.
I don't really disagree with anything you said, but some of this still sort of seems similar to XL and XY for me.
Obvioulsy the whole powerful-entity-who-isn't-from-a-noble-deity-family-and-who-fights-with-the-Shengnong-army and Princess-related-to-the-Emperor-of-Xuan-Yuan-who-would-rather-be-an-ordinary-doctor who fall in love while the Shengnong army (or remnants of it) are at war with Xuan Yuan dynamic. But other parts too.
Chi You made Ah Heng aware of his feelings pretty early on, but for a while Ah Heng wasn't sure whether she should take his advances seriously, until the Flame Emperor assured her that Chi You's feelings were genuine and serious.
For a long time XY was very unsure of XL's feelings. In the healing pool, XL seemed like he was going to take things further even though XY was in a man's body. XY thought that XL's flirtatiousness when he was FFB was not serious. There were so many confusing hot and cold moments between them after that. But then, surely, when the Shaman King explained the Lovers Bugs to XY, XY must have realized what that meant about XL's feelings for her on some level, even if she tried to deny it in front of TSJ and even to herself? Of course XL then went on to do what he could to make XY question that revelation, which was different from how Chi You acted, so the dynamics aren't the same. But the partial similarities still stand I think.
Idk what XL would have done if XY had agreed to run away with FFB when he half-seriously made his offer, but (as you said) I don't think he would have abandoned the Shengnong remnant army. Just as I presume Chi You would not have abandoned the Shengnong army if Ah Heng had agreed to run away with him before the war was over. The idea that they would run away together "after the war was over" with both of them unscathed and able to cut ties with their prior loyalties sort of seems like a fantasy. Maybe it's easy to say that with the benefit of already knowing how their stories ended. Idk. I can see both differences and similarities between the two couples on this point.
XL didn't ask XY to run away with him again, and that made him different from Chi You. But if he had, for much of her story XY couldn't leave or betray CX in order to be with XL. Somewhat similar to how Ah Heng couldn't leave or betray her brothers, her mother and her people to be with Chi You before the war ended.
XY didn't exactly forcibly cut ties with XL (as he later did with her) before getting married and she didn't have a child with XL so she didn't keep him in the dark about her child's parentage. But she did make the 15 year promise with TSJ, she did give XL the "suitable to enter a girl's dream" line, and she did agreed to marry TSJ... twice. Not exactly the same, but maybe in the same ballpark?
She also agreed to marry Feng Long and told XL that she would stop making poisons for him after she got married... but that seemed more like she was giving XL an ultimatum and threatening to cut ties with him if he didn't do... something, rather than actually cuttinig ties with him. So that part doesn't feel similar to Chi You and Ah Heng's dynamic.
And yet... Ah Heng did wait for Chi You under the peach blossom tree and she was disappointed when he didn't arrive. Didn't she think that was the end of their relationship? Obviously the circumstances were different. XL chose not to answer the ice crystal ball message until he interrupted the wedding itself. Chi You was prevented from meeting Ah Heng under the cherry blossom tree, so it wasn't his choice... But I can't help feeling like it's still an interesting partial parallel.
During the war between Zhong Yi and Yan Zhuan, Chi Chen came and helped the Xuan Yuan army against Yan Zhuan because A Heng asked for his help (actually it was Shao Hao who forged that appeal for help). However, he painfully sealed the spiritual powers in half of his body, because that was all he could give to help A Heng and the Xuan Yuan army against Yan Zhuan and the Shen Nong army, and that was his way of honouring his loyalty to Yu Xiang, and his promise to live and die with the woman he loved.
Yeah I can't really picture XL ever helping the Xuan Yuan army fight the Shengnong remanant army in any context, even if XY asked him to.
But it seems possible that he chose not to take advantage of many opportunities that he had to kill CX, for XY's sake. Which is pretty significant.
While Chi Chen and A Heng were always held up as a cautionary tale for why Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu should not be together, I think aside from their opposing stances, they are two very different couples, and two very different situations.
It seems like the biggest difference came down to XL's choices though, in keeping his feelings secret and not making promises to XY / not pursuing a relationship with XY. And it seems like XL's choices might have been the main reason that XY was able to avoid an ending that would have been similar to her mother's tragic fate.
As for Shao Hao, I don't see any similarity between him and Feng Long or Jing.
I agree that I don't see similarities between these characters themselves.
But I do sort of see some minor similarties between Ah Heng's decision to marry Shao Hao and XY's decision to marry Feng Long (and maybe, to an even lesser extent, her decision to marry TSJ).
They're definitely not exactly the same... Ah Heng's hand was forced, while XY's was not.
But Ah Heng chose to get married to Shao Hao despite her feelings for Chi You, and Shao Hao initially agreed that the marriage would be an alliance of mutual benefit and not a love match.
XY chose to get married to Feng Long depsite her feelings for XL and TSJ, and she and Feng Long had an understanding that this was a marriage alliance that they would be entering into for mutual benefits and that it wasn't founded on love.
Shao Hao and Ah Heng further agreed that their marriage would only be temprorary, which is different from what XY and Feng Long agreed to. But that makes sense given that XY planned to have children with Feng Long, didn't want to be alone (although she was aware that Feng Long probably was not going to be the exact type of life-long companion she really wanted), and she had no reason to think that she might be able to get together with XL or TSJ in the future if she did divorce Feng Long.
Later on, XY chooses to marry TSJ (an acceptable match for her as far as her father, her grandfather, and Sir Bi were concerned and eventually a match that even CX came to accept) despite her feelings for XL. We never find out that the wedding has been consumated in the novel...
Thin, partial parallels. But still parallels I think?
My theory is that if one party is heartbroken over the other person and wants to stop loving that person, the lovers bug will retaliate, irrespective of whether the other person had or had not fallen out of love. I also think that if one party had fallen out of love for the other person, the lovers bug will definitely retaliate.
Is there something in particular in the novel or the drama that makes you feel that heartbreak alone wouldn't cause retaliation? That wanting to stop loving the other person or falling out of love with the other person would instead be the trigger?
I can't think of anything in the novel that indicates that. The Shaman King said that heartbroken people produce Heartbreak Bugs. He didn't say anything about a heartbroken host needing to also want to stop loving the other host, or actually stopping loving the other host, before retaliation would occur.
In the drama, it was in danger of retaliation when he was heartbroken seeing her and Jing outside Dragon Bone prison, but he successfully suppressed it using his spiritual powers. The retaliation did not happen because she stopped loving him - if she did, it would have retaliated way before, when she told him he was not suitable to enter her dreams. I believe the retaliation happened because at that moment, he wanted to stop loving her.
If XL had to have wanted to stop loving XY in order for the bug to try to retliate in S1 Ep19, does that mean that he also wanted to stop loving XY when the bug tried to retlaiate in S2 Ep7?
In S2 Ep1, XL/FFB says that he would not have changed his path because, if he did, then he would not have met an important someone (WXL / XY). I find it hard to believe that XL (in the drama or in the novel) would have wanted to stop loving XY even in the circumstances set out in S1 Ep19 and S2 Ep7.
Based on everything that the Shaman King and Lirong Ji said, I also don't think it makes sense that the bugs would not try to retaliate if a host was heartbroken unless that host also felt that they wanted to stop loving the other host or actually stopped loving the other host.
IMO, the bug could have been trying to retaliate in S1 Ep19 and S2 Ep7 simply because XL felt heartbroken, without him also having to have wished that he could stop loving XY.
By the same token, he did not have to suppress the bugs when their relationship was severed at Gourd lake, because their love for each other still remained unchanging, regardless of how devastated they were at the time, so there was no retaliation to speak of. However, in that moment, Xiang Liu's suffering would have been twofold - his own grief, compounded with hers, one which she could not feel because he blocked it from her.
In S1 Ep18, the drama doesn't show the bug glowing, doesn't show XL having a pained expression, and doesn't show XL suppressing the bug when XL finds out that WXL's true identity is XY and he thinks that she lied to him about being an abandoned person with no means of protecting herself, no one to rely on and nowhere to go. If there was ever a point where XL would have wanted to stop loving WXL/XY, wouldn't this have been it?
In S1 Ep19, the drama doesn't show the bug glowing, doesn't show XL having a pained expression, and doesn't show XL suppressing the bug when XY gives her "not suitable to enter a girl's dream" response.
In S1 E19, the drama does show the bug glowing, XL having a pained expression, and XL suppressing the bug when XL observes XY and TSJ together on the beach after XL left XY to get back to shore on her own. Basically pushing XY to be with TSJ instead of him for the first time.
In S2 Ep7, the drama doesn't show the bug glowing, doesn't show XL having a pained expression, and doesn't show XL suppressing the bug at any point when XL is cold and harsh towards XY in that episode, including when he uses the bug connection to cause XY to feel immense pain (presumably the pain of the bugs trying to retaliate). XY's bug glows at that point and she is clearly in immense pain, but XL's bug does not glow and he does not appear to be in immense pain... until he turns his back on XY. Then, and only then, does the drama show us that his bug is also glowing and he is clearly also in pain. We don't see him suppress the bugs, even though he must have done so to prevent them from turning into Heartbreak Bugs.
As you noted, in S2 Ep21, the drama doesn't show the bug glowing, doesn't show XL having a pained expression, and doesn't show XL suppressing the bug when XL pushes XY to cut ties with him.
Based on these examples, I don't think we can count on the drama to always show us when the bugs are trying to retaliate, when they are causing XL pain, and when he needs to suppress them. Honestly I don't trust the drama to be logical and consistent about these kind of details, so this doesn't surprise me.
(TJC Studio's "Chapter 2 - The Story of a Walnut" actually has a very interesting explanation about the lovers bug and how Xiang Liu was able to control both bugs.)
This was cute! And it does suggest that, at least unofficially, XL was able to control... something in him and something in XY.
But the way they laid it out as if there were two walnuts (instead of two halves of one walnut) and as if the walnuts were somehow the same as the bugs and yet existed outside of the hosts such that one of the walnuts could... have a casual chat with Chubby out in the wilderness instead of being inside the hosts (after being absorbed into them) and... not being sentient / capable of having a chat. It seems unnecessarily confusing. Couldn't they have just had Chubby chat with the bug in XL while XL was sleeping?
solarlunareclipse:
Hrm, I watched the scene where she woke up from her nightmare and didn't see see her clutching her heart. She did clutch her heart after she learned of his death.
Her hand was over her heart when she woke up from the nightmare, an indication that her heart was bothering her.
After XY wakes up from the nightmare, she goes to sit outside. A short time later, TSJ comes out and covers her with an outer robe and XY explians what happened to him.
----
TSJ: Why are you still up?
XY: I just had a nightmare. Suddenly my heart palpitated and I couldn't fall back asleep.
TSJ: Didn't the Royal Mother say that the Gu was removed?
XY: It's not the Gu.
TSJ: It's the war?
XY nods. TSJ takes XY's hand to comfort her.
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