Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 kitty_momo:

Thank you so much for the context of Once Promised! I had only read some parts from the ending.

You're welcome. I'm sure there's much more that would be good to include that I missed or got wrong because of all the chapters that haven't been translated or parts where I only read summaries, but hopefully that overview is relatively accurate. Maybe liddi will fill us in once she finishes reading it. 

 kitty_momo:

With this story, I still feel that their story doesn't provide any compelling reasons for why XY and XL shouldn't be together.

I see it as... the world believed that Qi Yo died on the battlefield fighting for Sheng Nong because he could not let go of his loyalty to Wang Yu and his comrades. The world also believed that Ah Heng died in battle at Qi Yo's hand. The Grand Emperor seems to know that Ah Heng did not die, and instead had to suffer as the desert beast for hundreds of years. It's not clear whether he would be aware that she spent those hundreds of years remembering and missing Qi Yo (even though she had his heart and his spirit with her) before she could join him in death. 

XL fights for the Sheng Nong remnant army for reasons similar to Qi Yo's... he can't let go of his loyalty to Gong Gong and his comrades. While he might not face XY on the battlefield the way that Qi Yo faced Ah Heng, XL will face Zhuan Xu either directly or indirectly. The people around XY understand that eventually, one of them will (directly or indirectly) kill the other. 

For most of the story, Zhuan Xu is acknowledged to be her most important person. If XL killed ZX, XY would be shattered even if she had no relationship with XL. 

But I think everyone around XY (the Grand Emperor, the Yellow Emperor and ZX) worries about XY being too close to XL and tells her to stay away from him because they see the day where ZX will eventually kill XL (himself or through his army), and they don't want XY to be devastated by it. In the Grand Emperor's case, he might also not want XY to suffer like her mother and mourn XL's memory until she ultimately dies and meets him in death. 

Separately (not really related to her parents' story), they also know that, unless XL were to defect to Xuan Yuan - which he clearly will not do - there would be no way for XL and XY to be together while she remains by ZX's side (and, by extension, by the Yellow Emperor's side). If XY were to get to close to XL, she would either be broken (when one of ZX or XL kills the the other) or she might leave ZX and the Yellow Emperor to be with XL.

 kitty_momo:

I completely agree with this. It would be very fitting with the theme if Hong Jiang could let go of his obsession. In fact, there is somewhat of a reference to this in the leaked script, but it's... depressing. After the Emperor of Haoling abdicates to Cangxuan and Ah Nian, Hong Jiang is talking to Xiang Liu. Basically, Hong Jiang says something like "The Emperor of Haoling is really hardcore. Many years ago when Chenrong still existed and Haoling was extremely weak and under attack, he single-handedly won the battle against all odds while massively outnumbered. I really admire his style. I can't believe that kind of person is now surrendering without a fight. Do you think our persistence is meaningful?". And then XL says something like "even if it's meaningless, we will keep going" and Hong Jiang just says "HAO". I really can't with them.

Wow, really? "Even if it's meaningless..."? That's just... that's the opposite of what I want to hear. A meaningful sacrifice is one thing. But a meaningless sacrifice? Infuriating. 

 kitty_momo:

And then XL says something like "even if it's meaningless, we will keep going" and Hong Jiang just says "HAO". I really can't with them.

So now it's just dying for the sake of dying?? Why?? I thought it was supposed to be meaningful, at least. Why is he so hellbent on dying??? I'm losing my mind!!!

 liddi:

Hmm, that is not quite how I interpret it.

What Xiang Liu said was:

虽千万人，吾往矣
No matter how many stand in the way, I will forge ahead.

which I take to mean, no matter how great the enemy, they will still persevere.

Oh that version is much better. I hope that's how they choose to put it in the drama, if this scene does end up being included in S2.

 liddi:

which I take to mean, no matter how great the enemy, they will still persevere.

You're right, sorry! I was paraphrasing from memory and clearly categorized it wrong when I read that scene (it was a while ago). I don't mean to spread falsehoods heh :/ It was from my subjective feeling/judgement when I read the scene. I've edited my post.

I've been trying to think about it with the branches vs. roots analogy, but I'm having a bit of a hard time with it to be honest. Something doesn't feel quite right, but I'm not sure what it is.

 liddi:

XL (coldly): After this bow, you and I are sworn enemies.

This is a bit much for me...

I understand what they're saying, and I can accept that they feel this way, but I'm still not entirely convinced. I feel that it would be more convincing if Hong Jiang had concrete political goals and convictions except for "we swore to never surrender, so we will never surrender". I feel like the roots need to have a  more concrete core belief, like, a reason for not surrendering. The only core belief I can ascertain is "never surrender", but... never surrender for the sake of never surrendering? It feels a bit circular to me.

 kitty_momo:

You're right, sorry! I was paraphrasing from memory and clearly categorized it wrong when I read that scene (it was a while ago). I don't mean to spread falsehoods heh :/ It was from my subjective feeling/judgement when I read the scene. I've edited my post.

I've been trying to think about it with the branches vs. roots analogy, but I'm having a bit of a hard time with it to be honest. Something doesn't feel quite right, but I'm not sure what it is.

It’s not a perfect analogy. But I do see how their fight would help the people formerly from Chenrong in tandem with SNY’s efforts in the Middle Plains. As long as there was an army still fighting for Chenrong, the Yellow Emperor would have  an extra incentive to treat the people of Chenrong decently so that they wouldn’t have a reason to strongly support Hong Jiang’s army and perhaps even re-ignite a full blown war for Chenrong’s independence. 

“@AH @nathsketch @kitty_momo

That conversation took place in Ep16. This scene before that conversation between Hong Jiang and Xiang Liu is poignant, reflecting his realisation that their time is coming to an end.

Xiang Liu had just returned after his visit to see Cang Xuan and A Nian's wedding festivities. The soldiers were hard at work training, their faces weather-beaten, their clothes threadbare yet they continued to persevere. Among them were youthful faces. He stood watching them for a while, then gently told the officer in charge of the training to give them an extra portion of meat from that day forth. The officer was overjoyed, and assumed that Xiang Liu had procured more provisions, to which Xiang Liu did not further elaborate.”

He already sees the end as near right after CX and Ah Nian’s wedding? I know that marks the end of the war between Xuan Yuan and Gao Xing, and the ramp-up of conflicts between Xuan Yuan and Gong Gong’s army, but in the novel (iirc) they persisted for several decades after that. Something like 40 more years. I guess with all the other changes, that timeframe will be shortened significantly in the drama?

Thanks @kitty_momo for the leaked script translations and @AH  for the exerpts of Once Promised

 kitty_momo:

With this story, I still feel that their story doesn't provide any compelling reasons for why XY and XL shouldn't be together.

I pretty much agree with that.

 kitty_momo:

As a last resort he could knock XL out and send him away for his own good before the battle,

This is the simplest and most brilliant idea ever! And Hong Jiang would have let a message to XL giving him his blessings to live a carefree life and saying that he considers XY worthy of to marry him (XL being that stubbornly loyal, two precautions are better than one)!

 kitty_momo:

XY could have used her negotiating power with all the emperors and the Lover's Bug

The fact that XY didn't took the opportunity to change the course of history by "threatening" CX the Lover's Bug. After all, CX would never allow anyone to hurt XY? And the Chenrong army is not in a position where they want to retaliate nor are capable of attacking? This option could cut XiaoLiu and Chenrong some slack...  XY could have presented things like that "Statu quo in Dahuang until XL and I die and then you do whatever you want".

 AH :

Only when you let go of the things you spent so much time fighting for will you find peace and happiness.

 AH :

Gong Gong (Hong Jiang) is another character from Once Promised. If they were to change XL's ending, it would be very much in keeping with the themes of LYF for him (Gong Gong / Hong Jiang) to learn to finally let go so he and his soldiers could take up a new, peaceful life and find happiness.

I wouldn't mind seeing a version of the story where that happens. Especially if it involved XY meeting with Hong Jiang to help change his mind.

With such a natural and harmonious option possible for the ending, I wonder what was on Tong Hua's mind to instead inflict us with a whirlwind of torturous torments. Well, Tong Hua being the omnipotent writer, she has created a trap sewn into a labyrinth to ensure that XL would die anyway. She set up the perfect circumstances to create the (best?) inescapable ending...

 kitty_momo:

I feel that it would be more convincing if Hong Jiang had concrete political goals and convictions except for "we swore to never surrender, so we will never surrender".

Yes: Hong Jiang should at least have real political goals or a real revenge to satiate because for the moment, the file is a little light.

By the way, I have 2 unrelated questions :

• was XL aware of the 15 years promise made between XY and TSJ?
• we regularly discuss about how the Lover's Bug work and I know that there's no real certitude about them. I was wondering: in order for the Lover's Bug not to turn into the Heartbreak Bug and therefore kill XL and XY, did XL had to make sure XY never forgot him? Let me explain myself. I wrote a few page before that factually, I think that XL shows several times that he actually wants XY to remember him. For me, XY's song  "A song about missing someone forever and never being able to forget." is one of the key I base my assumption on. Missing = Remembering = Real Love. I know XL used FFB not only to teach XY to protect herself/entertain her and to spend some time for himself with her but, from the moment he decided he would not pursue a love story with XY, he could just do all the things he wanted for her, from a distance and use proxys for the rest? Thus, without XL/FFB disrupting XY's heart, it would have allowed XY and TSJ romance to bloom fully. We know that the fact that someone love several people at once isn't a condition for the Lover's Bug to turn into the Heartbreak Bug. Yet, we don't know the type of love that the Lover's Bug validates, but it apparently validated XY/XL love as it was. But, like an ex-lover who can't let you go and come back everytime to let you know he still exists and still have feelings for you, it's difficult for you too to let him go. You can't forget, you still love him. But if you don't hear about him, you gradually let go, forget, replace, erase. If XL/FFB didn't appear after the beach scene, could XY have kept him in her memory=heart as strongly? I don't know if I can make myself understood... Hope I'm not giving you a headache XD