Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 HeadInTheClouds:

Not the goatee!!!! Got to say, your daughter is very creative with him. She seems to be having a lot of fun dressing him up. Did she manage to finish the drama/novel?

She was peering over my shoulder when I read your message and she said "Nope, and don't intend to!" LOL. I would ask her every now and again, since I pointed out characters die in other shows or animes she watches as well. However, she told me that Xiang Liu hits differently, and she could not bear to continue reading past Qing Shui town post-wedding robbery, and has not advanced past S2Ep4, because every step brought her closer to his death, which she could not bear.

 HeadInTheClouds:

Your daughter's suggestion reminded me of the Xiang Liu's Mini Theatre clip that TJC's studio released after Season 1 where TJC suggested to XL to put MQ on a diet so he can fly faster. Poor MQ was not pleased about his food being cut :-)

YES! I was thinking of that too when she mentioned it. I showed my girl the video you shared, and she was going "Poor Mao Qiu, told to stop eating even though it's such a small piece." I guess with her sympathy for her overweight bird, do you think oversized flower pots might do the job too?

 HeadInTheClouds:

This case showed the shift in Lu Lingfeng. He's rightgeous and honourable but previously they were cold principles, lacking the human aspect. After this case, his drive to uphold what is right and just now is about protecting the people.

 I enjoyed that it's an ensemble rather focused on a couple. Kinda like Go East in this aspect.

Exactly. It is in this case that he finally found his humanity, rather than just sticking rigidly to  principles. Now that you mention it, it's true that their teamwork is reminiscent of Go East. Though I think this team is far more efficient.

 HeadInTheClouds:

The melon at the moment is December this year. Apparently, it's on the list of shows that is tentatively slated for December. It still needs to be confirmed, of course. 

I really really hope so. And am keeping fingers and toes crossed that it would be as good as, or even better than S1. I loved S1, but it was not without its faults, something I hope S2 would improve on.

 HeadInTheClouds:

I haven't seen The Three Body, sounds like a high-quality production. It would be great to see him in something dramatic and serious again.

Three-Body is excellent, but can be very bleak, though it ends on a note of hope in the most unexpected of places. I definitely would love to see him in a Three-Body production. Was trying to guess who he would play in S2 The Dark Forest, but the character I had in mind feels a little older from what I gather (haven't read the book yet!) so I am not as certain he would be the right fit for it. Either way, it's all wild guesses and pipe dreams so far.

Am watching the donghua Link Click S2 with my daughter. I really love S1, and S2 continues to be excellent, but can be very triggering. One of the most painful scenes to watch is the extended portrayal of domestic violence on both the wife and the children, which triggered my daughter's outburst multiple times that the man was scum that was a waste of space. 3 more episodes to go, but knowing the series, it is very likely going to end on yet another cliffhanger. We shall see. I started the live action drama as well which is adapted from S1, and was surprised that I really enjoyed it thus far as I did not have much faith in live action remakes. Jin Shijia plays a scumbag CEO of a gaming company who exploits his employees. Definitely a departure from UTS's Du Cheng! And the earthquake case made me cry again, just as it did in the original donghua.

 AH :

I’m watching Love Game in Eastern Fantasy and it’s giving me so much joy, comfort and catharsis.

 Kokuto:

I'm watching that too, and loving it!  I'm only on episode 6 though -- hope to catch up this weekend.  I loved ... the consequences for Esther's character when she 'fails' the game's goals.  I have to admit, I LOL in that first episode when it just kept happening over and over again.  But it also has heart, like the stuff with her dad.  And Ding Yu Xi is awesome, plus has great chemistry with Esther.  I LOL several times at their interactions.  I'm glad to hear Esther's character is ... strong enough to fight for love -- though I'm sure the game would make her.  lol

I am very late, only just having started watching up to Ep9 but truly loving it for exactly the reasons both of you mentioned. I am just sorry I didn't watch earlier, because I didn't really enjoy the leads in their previous roles. However Yu Shuxin is such a revelation here, succeeding in making Lin Miaomiao so funny, resourceful and adorable. Love her interactions with everyone, and I teared up more than once in scenes with her game father, especially when she thinks she would have to lose him all over again. And Ding Yuxi is brilliant here and such a joy to watch too - his petty jealousy, suspicious nature, gruffness and his involuntary growing affection for her (the affection percentage angle is such a riot!). 

I presume both of you have finished the drama by now. Does it stay good all the way to the end? I really hope so. Have any of you read the book? How faithful is the adaptation?

 AH :

Episodes 6 - 17 had me thinking that LGiEF might be my favourite drama of the year, but I felt like the later episodes didn't live up to the potential of the earlier episodes. 

 AH :

The second half of the drama continued to deliver bits and pieces that kept me watching all the way through the finale, but not enough for me to feel satisfied, especially after so much screen time was dedicated to lingering on plot lines that didn't interest me, that had choppy momentum and contradictory themes, and that sorely lacked communication and progress between the leads. I wanted the leads to communicate more and I wanted their relationship to have more focus / screen time than it ended up getting.

I'm really sorry to hear that the second half of the drama failed to follow through with the standard of the first half, as I have been harbouring very high hopes that it would continue to impress all the way to the end. Did the drama fall into well-worn tropes like misunderstandings keeping the couple apart, lack of communication caused by noble idiocy? What kind of contradictory themes are you referring to? Were the characters inconsistent? Or did the narrative lose its glitter from rehashing the same themes over and over again? Ahh... I really should find out for myself.

 AH :

I have not read the novel. Based on comments from other viewers who have read it, it sounds like they made some pretty big changes and most fans seem to think that at least some of the changes were for the better.

It's good to know that fans approve of the changes in the adaptation, which is more than I can say for other adaptations where book fans were upset and horrified at the author over deviations from the source material e.g. Novoland Eagle Flag (and in some ways, LYF too). 

Are you still in LYF universe? I have made a concerted point to stay away for now. Am overwhelmed by a sudden deluge of viewing fare - surprisingly enjoying Link Click the live action drama, and am planning to start Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty S2. Meanwhile, am also reading "The Lonely Plough" by Constance Holme and want to move on to "Three Body:The Dark Forest" after that. I get the distinct feeling I am biting off way more than I can chew. Gah.

 liddi:

Are you still in LYF universe?

Hi everyone, so far I have no eager or motivation to watch the 2nd seasons of LYF. I watched only the first eps and S2 and some clips that I came across on my facebook. Not so many.
I turned my interest back to my kind of all time favourite - Ancient Love Poetry. I have watched that series so many times and found something new each time. I now use the knowledge in Chinese language (with help from various translation tool such as google translate, dictionary and Chat GPT) to figure out some mystery, hints in the TV version. I like this kind of literature, TV detective work. I also find out that the OSTs of the series tell a lot of the main lead's story and they match well with the original narrative. It changed some of my previous impression about the songs. 

Therefore, it's very useful and I cherish our conversation here since i can learn from other and have motivation to learn sth else. Haha, I even learnt to use Canva and capcut to make paper illustration or subtitles for clips.

Lately I don't watch any new series. Looking forwards to Under the Skin S2. Rumor is that it will be on air in December. Hope it's true

Speaking of MQ and XL. Some adorable A.I generated images of the two

 HeadInTheClouds:

I just finished Loves Games and shared many of the same sentiments as AH.

Although it would be better to not be disappointed in the first place, it is still nice to be able to share thoughts with you about another disappointing second half of a drama HeadInTheClouds! ^^

 HeadInTheClouds:

The first 16 or so episodes are like a sparkly, bubbly sweet drink - a lot of energy and joyfulness. It lost a lot of this sparkle as the drama progressed. This wouldn't be a bad thing per se if it replaced it with emotional beats and thematic development, but that didn't happen.

 HeadInTheClouds:

 AH :
After the situation in episodes 18 - 20, they should have had a conversation about what happened... but never did.
This was such a weird choice and one of several missed opportunities when it comes to emotional payoff in the series. It's like the script shied away from holding a serious/emotional scene long enough - it just got glossed over.

 HeadInTheClouds:

The romance aspect was definitely short-changed in the second half of the series. The secondary romance was dull as dishwater, when, if it had been done better it could have been a lovely contrast to the bubbly romance of the main couple. As it was, they both fell short of their initial potential.

 HeadInTheClouds:

Overall, I had fun watching the show, but some weird choices prevented it from being a solid drama.

I agree!

 HeadInTheClouds:

Kinda like when Mo Yao finally found out about the ML's secret. I don't want the misunderstanding or angst to be dragged on across multiple episodes, but at least give me enough to sink my teeth into. 

Although I do think that this scene could have been handled a bit differently in order to create a better emotional payoff, I still enjoyed Mu Yao quickly and staunchly defending Ziqi. I was happy for Ziqi.  

 AH :

As one example, the female lead knows that Fu Zhou's novel had a tragic ending because the lead characters kept secrets from each other and didn't trust each other, which led to Mu Yao feeling betrayed by everyone in the end. So she spends a lot of time convincing the lead characters to trust each other, to be honest and not hide their secrets, and to stick together.

 HeadInTheClouds:

Did she know that or was this something the the ML explained in the last episode? I don't quite remember.

For as long as LMM is able to remember her life in the real world (including reading / listening to Catching Demons and the fact that she has entered a game version of the novel's universe and is capable of re-writing the novel's ending), she is able to remember how the novel ended tragically and why it ended that way. 

In episode 13, she was reminded of the ending when a "system error" caused her to see the original tragic ending segments of the novel re-play in front of her with the game characters she has become familiar with. 

In episode 31, she tells Ziqi that she knows that he intended to sacrifice himself and reminds him that he's not alone anymore. No one in their group is alone anymore. And they have to trust each other and work as a team in order to change the ending. Later in that episode, Mu Qing Shi tells LMM that the end of the novel/game world "has been written. Everyone is a lone wolf. There are secrets and fear among them. They hide their true feelings. In the end, everything falls apart." When she questions whether the ending can improve if they have another chance to do things over again, LMM is certain that they will. 

At the beginning of episode 32, LMM also explains how Fu Zhou's childhood experiences led him to write an ending to Catching Demons where "everyone was afraid of each other, concealing their true feelings from one another, until they fell apart."

After seeing the reminder of the original ending in episode 13, LMM tells Mu Yao earnestly that Ziqi didn't want to deceive Mu Yao and that she should forgive him, that she (LMM as Lin Yu) is Mu Yao's true meimei and would never hurt her, and that Liu Fuyi loves Mu Yao and only Mu Yao. She emphasizes that all of them are treating each other sincerely so, no matter what happens in the future, they should trust each other and not fall apart. Later in the episode, she realizes that her memory about some of the details regarding how certain plot points came about has become vague, but she still remembers enough to warn Liu Fuyi to avoid his love calamity in the capital. She reflects that she will rewrite the ending and save all of them, including ensuring that Ziqi does not turn evil as he did in the original novel ending. 

Her intention carries over to subsequent episodes. That's why she creates the "Four Bamboo Masters" name and badges in episode 14, why she encourages the group to trust each other and to work together, why she warns Liu Fuyi so many times about avoiding his love calamity, and why she encourages Ziqi to tell Mu Yao his secret himself. 

 HeadInTheClouds:

The entire last episode was just confusing to me. Did the author enter the "game" and play the role of Ziqi right from the start? Or did he enter the game at the end to exposition to the audience? That whole enter-the-game aspect was not exactly explained properly

My impression was that the parallel universe of the game, its rules and its tasks / quests came into existence due to the wishes that Fu Zhou made at the beginning of his surgery right before he was put under anesthesia. The critical comment that LMM wrote before being pulled into the game (and her similar desire for the novel to have a different ending) may have also played a role in its creation or may have been a convenient coincidence. 

It seemed like Ziqi was Fu Zhou from the beginning, but (in addition to not being able to remember his life in the novel/game universe before he turned seven because of the worry-free curse that his mother placed on him) he couldn't remember his life in the real world and wasn't aware that he was living as a character inside his own novel or an alternate game version of his novel, and yet some trace of Fu Zhou was still there. He was like LMM in episode 25 and 26 after her use of the apocal power caused her to forget the real world and lose awareness of the fact that she was in a game. Although she lost her memories of the real world, she was still herself (not Lin Yu) and retained her personality and the feelings for Ziqi that she had previously developed in that world. Which was different from how she was in episode 32 after her memories and self were erased entirely - leaving only Lin Yu from the original novel, who was Ziqi's wife. 

Without his memories of LMM inspiring him in the real world, Ziqi was more like Fu Zhou's younger self. He had similar insecurities / distrust. And as Mu Yao said in episode 2, even though he was no longer a kid, he still often acted like one with his rude behaviour, the baseless accusations he made, not thinking, and saying he understood when Mu Yao scolded him and yet not changing his behaviour. 

By interacting with LMM in the game, Ziqi was positively influenced by her once again, similar to how he was positively influenced by her when he was Fu Zhou in the real world. 

When Ziqi tells LMM near the end of episode 32 about the first two wishes he had at the beginning of his surgery in the real world, we see a flashback to episode 17 when LMM told Ziqi to make a wish on the shooting star and we see that his wishes (to have a good ending with LMM and for her to see his true feelings) were similar to Fu Zhou's first two wishes before his surgery. Which suggests that Ziqi's mindset had become more like adult Fu Zhou's mindset by that point. 

At the beginning of episode 32, it seemed like Ziqi still did not remember being Fu Zhou and was still not aware of the fact that he was inside a game. But when LMM explained it, he caught on quickly. And when she said Fu Zhou's name and talked about the childhood experiences that led Fu Zhou to write Catching Demons and its ending, it seemed like Ziqi might have been remembering those childhood experiences. 

When LMM mentioned the ballad at the beginning of the novel likely providing the answer as to how they could get Fu Zhou to stop the catastrophe of heaven, it seemed like Ziqi remembered both the ballad that his mother sang to him in the novel universe and the same ballad that Fu Zhou sang with his parents in the real world, so he was able to come up with a plan and asked Cui Cui to help get everyone to build a staircase up to the heavens to reach the younger, crying Fu Zhou. 

By the time he entered the system at the top of the stairway to heaven, it seemed like Ziqi remembered Fu Zhou's childhood and his adulthood. When he heard younger Fu Zhou crying in the wardrobe, Ziqi once again remembered the difficult events of Fu Zhou's childhood. And he also told young Fu Zhou (the one outside the wardrobe who had written Catching Demons) that he understood how he felt at that age and also told him that in the future he would become a good person who would bring courage and hope to many people (through his novels). And when that young Fu Zhou said that he had never had courage and hope, Ziqi knew that wasn't true and reminded him that LMM had given him courage and hope. That was why the Mu Qing Shi who stopped the catastrophe of heaven 900 years ago in Catching Demons looked like LMM. 

When younger Fu Zhou (in the wardrobe) asks Ziqi who he is, Ziqi says that he is "you" (this young Fu Zhou), but not entirely. Young Fu Zhou doesn't believe him because Ziqi looks brave, powerful, and fearless. Ziqi assures young Fu Zhou that he will be brave and powerful in the future and although he will not be fearless, he will be capable of facing the things he fears. 

And when he leaves the system space and returns to LMM in the game at the top of the staircase, Ziqi refers to himself as the one who wrote Catching Demons. When LMM asks if he is Fu Zhou, he confirms that he is. He tells LMM that his subsequent novels were different because of her, that they were all written for her, and about the first two wishes that he had before his surgery. Then, instead of staying with LMM inside the game, he leaves her and recalls the third wish he made as Fu Zhou before his surgery: to survive his surgery and to meet LMM in the real world so he can tell her personally that his courage came about because of her. 

 AH :

So YMMV and perhaps you'll end up enjoying the second half as much as the first.

Fingers crossed. Let's see how it goes when I get the chance to continue.

It's good that noble idiocy is not a trope even if lack of communication seems to plague them. As for the lack of apparent display of affection between the leads despite their growing closeness, it is said that YSX and DYX were not on good terms during the filming, hence intimate scenes could not be incorporated. Was the lack of it very jarring and affected the narrative flow? I was unfortunately spoiled by online posts so I am aware of Ziqi's identity in the real world, and even the identity of the great demon Yuan Nu, but I do not quite know whether this knowledge would colour my opinion of the drama. We shall see.

 AH :

I'm glad you've found lots of content that you're enjoying. ^^

True... but I have a very bad habit of getting easily derailed so these may very well end up in my ever-growing pile of unfinished works. Gah!

 AH :

I'll probably be watching Fangs of Fortune next. 

I watched bits and pieces of it here and there. It is Guo Jingming's work so stylistically very similar to My Journey to You. I enjoy the humour that is interjected in serious scenes, and it is replete with good-looking cast all around, but I did not have the patience to sit through it all, so have spoiled myself by watching the ending, and don't think I will go back and watch it properly. How do you find it?

 H19279:

Hi everyone, so far I have no eager or motivation to watch the 2nd seasons of LYF. I watched only the first eps and S2 and some clips that I came across on my facebook. Not so many.

You sound like my daughter! The only difference is that for her, it is to avoid facing the pain of losing Xiang Liu, rather than being appalled at the direction taken.

 H19279:

I like this kind of literature, TV detective work. I also find out that the OSTs of the series tell a lot of the main lead's story and they match well with the original narrative. It changed some of my previous impression about the songs.

It is telling when there is still so much to dissect or talk about after all this time. I agree that lyrics can provide great insight into a character. Even Xiang Liu's theme song "The Wait that can never come true" is fascinating because the lyrics actually reflect both Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao's perspectives, and interestingly enough, the title itself is very much a reflection of Xiao Yao's feelings towards Xiang Liu.

 H19279:

Lately I don't watch any new series. Looking forwards to Under the Skin S2. Rumor is that it will be on air in December. Hope it's true

 HeadInTheClouds:

December is looking more and more like a possibility since the platform just allowed Season 1 to be watched for free.  Apparently, this is a strong indicator that Season 2 is imminent

That's the rumour I heard too. Wonder whether they are going to air-drop it just like they did with Go East, with little warning. Whatever the case is, please let it be soon.

 liddi:

This same seasoning and its effect would come into play when Xiang Liu finally set Mao Qiu free even though the condor was determined to stay with Xiang Liu to the end by drugging it with wine laced with the same red jade plant seasoning - the very act being Xiang Liu's final expression of love and affection for his loyal companion of 300 years.

There is a saying among mortals: “The sky is high for birds to fly.” Since you have a pair of wings, you should soar freely. I told you long ago, people's hearts are evil so don’t easily trust their words. After I am gone, you should be more cautious. I saved you back then, and you have accompanied me for 300 years. All debts of gratitude and loyalty have been settled. Mao Qiu…

-- Xiang Liu, S02 Ep22

Oh interesting observation! Not only does XL make the viewer recall the scene where Mao Qiu first appeared by recalling / repeating the words he said to Mao Qiu back then, he also uses XY's poison (which has no discernible effect on him) to drug Mao Qiu so that he could leave for the final battle while Mao Qiu was unconscious. Just as WXL's poison immediately rendered Mao Qiu unconscious so that WXL could try to get away when they first met, but the same poison had no discernible effect on XL. 

Through both the repeated words and the use of WXL/XY's poison, Mao Qiu's last appearance echoes his first appearance. 

 liddi:

This just occurred to me out of the blue today... very surprisingly so considering I had consciously stayed away from this universe for quite some time.

You're making me think liddi, someone asked about FFYY in another thread recently. Specifically they asked:

 ObsidianAviary:

In what episode does FYY find out that she was tricked into loving TSH and not TSJ? Wiki mentioned she mistook TSH as TSJ

Another viewer answered: 

 steph_ravita:

@ObsidianAviary

That’s not accurate. TSH purposefully seduced FYY because she was TSJ’s fiancée. She knew who she was falling in love with; she wasn’t technically tricked. She finds out that TSH purposefully approached her in episode 9 Season 2.

I remembered that FFYY did not know that TSH was TSH when she first met him, so I checked the novel to refresh my memory of the details and I realized when TSH and FFYY first met, TSJ's mother was still alive, TSH did not know the truth about his birth, and TSJ and TSH were still on good terms. Which made it seem unlikely that when TSH fist met FFYY, he was intentionally trying to seduce her in order to hurt TSJ. It also made me wonder if, despite the fact that he later used and betrayed her, he might have had real romantic feelings for her, at least in the beginning.

I referenced some of the scenes I thought were relevant in my reply: https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/119179-novel-chapter-summaries?pid=3183016&page=1#p3183016

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

 liddi:

It's good that noble idiocy is not a trope even if lack of communication seems to plague them.

I mean, Ziqi does plan to sacrifice himself in the final battle, but LMM anticipates it and talks him out of it. And LMM sacrifices her memory / self, but she does so with certainty that Ziqi will bring her back and he does quite quickly. So it's not that that trope isn't part of their relationship / storyline at all, it's just that, to the extent that it is present, it isn't a major / drawn out thing. 

 liddi:

As for the lack of apparent display of affection between the leads despite their growing closeness, it is said that YSX and DYX were not on good terms during the filming, hence intimate scenes could not be incorporated.

Oh was that it? I hadn't heard that before. 

That seems rather odd since it seemed like they had great chemistry and they seemed comfortable on the multiple occasions when they hugged. Plus they added that back-of-the-heads kiss in the post-credits scene of the finale. Which seems like something they could have just as easily included in the main part of the story. 

I've seen some fans speculate about narrative reasons why they might have chosen to not have Ziqi and LMM kiss in the game, and some of them are semi-convincing. 

Like the fact that Fu Zhou was so young when he wrote Catching Demons and, at least in the first half of the game, Ziqi behaved like young Fu Zhou. So it would make sense for Ziqi to have an elementary-school style romance with LMM where there weren't kisses or marriage or wedding night activities. But since the game deviated from the narrative of the original novel and Ziqi was behaving more like adult Fu Zhou by the second half of the drama, I don't find this explanation all that compelling. 

There's also the factor of Ziqi's favourability score towards LMM. Narratively, it makes sense that the writers didn't want his favourability score to reach 100% until the last moment in the game, and a lot of things had to occur in the game first before it could end, including Ziqi deciding to fight to live in the real world, deciding to be brave and to meet LMM in the real world, and Ziqi having enough self-love and self-belief to feel that he was good enough and worthy enough to pursue those things. And it would feel very unsatisfying if Ziqi and LMM kissed or got married and yet Ziqi's favourability score still didn't reach 100% at that time. Although I feel like this is just one of several ways that the favourability rating part of the narrative sometimes didn't work well, I do think this line of thinking helps explain why the writers probably made some of the choices they ended up making.

 liddi:

Was the lack of it very jarring and affected the narrative flow?

For me, it was. Especially when juxtaposed with the progress made by the "main" couple. But the lack of communication was even more jarring than the lack of kisses / physical romantic intimacy. 

 liddi:

I was unfortunately spoiled by online posts so I am aware of Ziqi's identity in the real world, and even the identity of the great demon Yuan Nu, but I do not quite know whether this knowledge would colour my opinion of the drama.

I wasn't spoiled about these things but they're hinted at strongly enough in the drama that I feel like most viewers, myself included, were easily able to guess them long before they were confirmed in the drama. 

 liddi:

I'll probably be watching Fangs of Fortune next.
I watched bits and pieces of it here and there. It is Guo Jingming's work so stylistically very similar to My Journey to You. I enjoy the humour that is interjected in serious scenes, and it is replete with good-looking cast all around, but I did not have the patience to sit through it all, so have spoiled myself by watching the ending, and don't think I will go back and watch it properly. How do you find it?

I've seen loads of spoilers for FoF, which, for this drama, I think is actually a good thing. It gives me a good idea of what to expect and what to look forward to and it makes me appreciate a bunch of the details in the early episodes that I probably would have missed on a first watch. 

That said, it does feel very slow and although I think I will grow to appreciate the main characters' relationships up to a point if I stick with it, I don't find myself super engaged by them after the first few episodes.