Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 liddi:

Arghhh... how can I say no to it!!

I've placed an order via Taobao - very first time buying a physical item from the platform so fingers crossed everything goes smoothly (pretty much winging it!). From what I've been told it should be shipped out in about a month's time. Please let Mao Qiu come home safely!

Of course, you can't say 'no' to Chubby!  lol

I'm glad they had it.  Definitely let us know when you get it.  Looks ADORABLE

 Snowcup:

I’m Snowcup, a distant cousin of Feifei’s. I was visiting the LYF S1 page, and I kept hearing some sorrowful tones coming from this direction so I thought I’d stop by and comfort you all.  

Hi Snowcup! Welcome!

 Snowcup:

Have you heard the rumors about my cousin from a while back? I heard that nine-headed demon, Xiang Liu, was jealous that Feifei was seducing his potential girlfriend, so he ordered his bird-brain furball mount to eat him!

100% agree that Xiang Liu was jealous of Fei Fei. In the medicine pool, Xiang Liu even asked Wen Xiao Liu:

你如果是男人，是如何把朏朏勾搭出来的？
If you are a man, how could you have hooked up with Fei Fei?

[Clip from Season 1 Episode 10]

勾搭 means hooked up with or seduced and definitely has sexual connotations. 

 Snowcup:

Have to go now but will share more later. --S

Looking forward to your updates, Snowcup!

 AH :

Super, super cute! A belated happy Qixi Festival to you and your daughter, liddi! ^^

 AH :

I'm over thinking things again, but I couldn't help but feel that your daughter's gift reminded me of XL's gift.

On one level the creation looks very cute and sweet in a way that makes one smile and feel comforted. But there is also a deeper, more emotional meaning behind it that isn't apparent to someone who sees the creation without knowing more about it. Only those who are in the know are aware of the deeper emotional meaning. And of course a lot of thought and care went into choosing and making the gift.

Actually... maybe there's one more level to it. XY created the ice crystal ball first and sent it to XL. XL later created the big-bellied laughing doll and sent it back to XY, secretly containing a modified version of the big-bellied laughing doll within it. You were familiar with the story of LYF first. Then you introduced the story to your daughter, and the two of you had a shared experience of it. Your daughter later created this fanart image, which is based on / inspired by LYF (and her understanding of the story, as augmented by having shared the experience of it with you, including her knowledge of all of the emotions that Mao Qiu conjures up for us fans now) and gifted that image to you. In both cases, there was an initial gift and then a return gift that is built around the original gift.

I can't help but see parallels. ^^"

Thank you so so much! Am so moved by the parallels you so eloquently, beautifully described. Her unexpected gift came at a very opportune time because I was actually going through a lot of stress, so her gift, which coincidentally came during Qixi brightened up my day (and the days ahead) straight away. You are right about how we have connected on a different level due to our love for LYF and Xiang Liu. However, she has still not found herself ready to continue reading past Qingshui town after the wedding robbery, nor watch S2, though she is now far more able to listen and even sing to the OST. I once pointed out that the animes she does watch are also sad with well-loved characters dying, but for her, Xiang Liu just hits different, something I totally relate to and understand.

@AH

I can see why that ideal reading sequence is what you intended. Thank you again for crafting that wonderful epilogue.  I have re-read it quite a few times now.

One of my favorite parts is how your story heavily implied that XL was intent on waiting for XY indefinitely, but the actual duration happened to be a lifetime. This is even more touching when considered in context. In one of the early chapters, XY thought to herself that no one in the world would really wait for another person for a lifetime. Everyone would eventually leave after they get tired of waiting at some point.

By the way, I urge you to listen to this titanic sound track with vocals by Sissel Kyrkjebø. It is exactly what I imagine the merpeople's mating song to be. It sounds like an angel/siren singing of her lover and the sea: heavenly tender, ethereal, filled with love, initially tinted with a sense of longing which later subsides just as the tone becomes full of hope and joy (as if her lover has finally come back). Moreover, reading @AH's story while listening to this is an entirely new experience.

There was a LYF symposium held on 8 Aug 2024 where Tong Hua talked about her maiden foray into scriptwriting, and compares the novel which was mostly based on Xiao Yao's perspective, vs the drama, which is more of an omnipotent one:

When I wrote the novel, it was based more on a single perspective. That is, 70-80% of the time, the story was revealed based on the female lead's POV. For other characters, I would think... that is I often say that we should consider 10 parts, but what is put on paper is only 3 parts. And perhaps due to limitations in expressing through our writing, we might possibly only be able to convey 1 part to the readers. [The story of] Lost You Forever is unfolded through the lens of the female lead. In the early days I was actually reluctant when I was given the task of doing the script, because in the past, many seniors have told me that after you write the script, it is very possible that you will lose a lot of the perceptions and emotions you had when you wrote the novel. They said that scripts and novels are two very different ways of writing. Nonetheless, due to a lot of unexpected occurrences, I had to personally do this. However, when I properly started writing the script, I was very grateful that I accepted this task because it gave me an opportunity to enter the universe of "Lost You Forever" once more. Also, since the creative process of scriptwriting is different, it requires more of an omnipotent perspective. You stand together with each character and experience [what they are going through], instead of the novel's perspective which leans more towards the female lead's. As such, when I was writing the script, I revealed the buried lines of the novel. So it is equivalent to I myself living in each character's worlds a second time round. Although it was very tough at the time since it was my first time writing a script, I could only explore as I proceeded. At the time I watched a lot of famous, drama classics to learn the creative process of our seniors. However, I personally feel that it was worth it.

-- Tong Hua interview 8 Aug 2024, LYF Symposium, Beijing

 cr. Weibo video source 

The following is a news article that describes what leaders and experts at the LYF symposium had to say about LYF and why it is garnering high praise from them. From their perspectives, I am beginning to understand why LYF was adapted the way it was... 

The TV Drama 'Lost You Forever': Triggering Thoughts on the Refinement of Costume Dramas"

Date: August 13, 2024  
Source: China Art Daily
Author: 吴月玲 Wu Yueling  

At the start of this summer vacation, the second season of the TV drama 'Lost You Forever' premiered on Jiangsu TV and Tencent Video, quickly leading the summer schedule. Its popularity on Tencent Video rapidly surpassed 30,000, continuing the success of Lost You Forever S1, which became a hit during its broadcast last summer. 'Lost You Forever' has evolved from a popular fantasy novel rooted in mythology into a television work that not only showcases ancient aesthetics but also deepens its reflection on reality and exhibits significant focus on humanistic care. Over two summer seasons, it has provided viewers with a visual feast and promoted Chinese aesthetics both domestically and internationally. On August 8, a creative symposium for the costume drama 'Lost You Forever' was held in Beijing. At the meeting, leaders, experts, scholars, and representatives of key creators spoke enthusiastically and conducted in-depth discussions and professional interpretations of 'Lost You Forever' from various angles, including refined production, Oriental aesthetics, Chinese cultural dissemination, and realist style creation. They praised its pursuit of cultural beauty, thematic depth, and cinematographic artistry, integrating objective historical elements into a fictional story, continuing the humanistic spirit and patriotism of traditional Chinese culture - the latest achievement in high quality web dramas.

The question of how to refine costume dramas is an important issue facing many creators. In practice, it is crucial to address both historical and realistic aspects. Wang Juan, Vice President of Tencent Online Video, stated, “The project team has put in a great deal of effort at every stage to make this costume drama more grounded in realism. Through realistic scenes and detailed character portrayals, the story aligns more closely with real-life logic.” In this regard, the drama’s main director, Qin Zhen, revealed, “The series underwent 15 months of detailed preparation and research during pre-production. During post-production which took over two years, we also dared not be negligent in the slightest. We hope to present 'Lost You Forever' to the audience in its most perfect form through meticulous improvement efforts.” By using an ancient perspective to metaphorically represent modern life and using contemporary characteristics to carry cultural emotions, 'Lost You Forever''s exemplary role is worth exploring. The drama’s original author and screenwriter, Tong Hua remarked, “Through the creation of the drama, we learned to use a third-person perspective to re-examine the hidden clues and worldview in the story, thus gaining a deeper understanding of the characters.” Wang Jing who is also the screenwriter of the drama believes that the creative process starts with the characters themselves. “Each character has a complete growth arc. Once the characters are well-established, the story becomes alive.”

The creation of costume dramas, while imaginative, also relies on the nourishment of traditional culture. Li Jingsheng, Vice President of the China Radio and Television Social Organisation Federation, mentioned, “'Lost You Forever' incorporates historical elements into an artificially constructed story. Using fictional imagination to portray history makes the audience feel that the background is clear, the fiction is well-founded, and the imagination is grounded.” At the same time, Li Jingsheng praised the continuation of Chinese traditional culture in 'Lost You Forever': “The depiction of characters in this work also extends the sentiment of traditional culture. When everything is settled, the scriptwriters allow Xiao Yao and Tushan Jing to fulfil their romantic destiny and retreat into the world.” Zhong Chengxiang, a member of the Central Academy of Literature and History and a well-known literary critic, said, “Costume dramas are actually a product of bridging literary traditions. Proper guidance of historical and aesthetic views is extremely important. 'Lost You Forever' advocates for peace and stability, contains national sentiment, and pure, healthy emotions, using an extremely romantic way of thinking to grasp events and create images.”

How costume dramas can resonate with young audiences is intrinsically related to reflecting and connecting with contemporary society. To Kang Wei, Editor-in-Chief of China Art Daily, under the shell of fantasy drama 'Lost You Forever' is its human aspect. “There are romantic conflicts, as well as familial redemption and reconciliation. In the end, Xiao Yao and Tushan Jing’s return to the world of the Great Wilderness is both an emotional fulfillment and a liberation of the state of life.” In addition, the drama's pursuit of self-discovery and subjectivity strongly resonates with viewers. “It echoes the current audience's quest for self-identity. The audience is asking ‘Who am I?’ in such a complex, contradictory system. This is a particularly important aspect of empathy with the audience.” Professor Lu Rong of the School of Drama, Film and Television at Communication University of China sees emotional education in 'Lost You Forever': “'Lost You Forever' has a love theme and the ability to analyse emotions. The characters grow through their experiences and are more rational in facing their emotions.” Renowned drama critic Li Xingwen sees high emotional intensity in 'Lost You Forever': “Incorporating national sentiment into the love elements of costume dramas provides a way forward for this genre, making it more profound and substantial, and able to reach a broader audience.” Yi Kai, Secretary-General of the China Television Art Committee, believes that, “Costume dramas have always been ratings hits, especially attracting the attention of young viewers. At the same time, costume dramas are more likely to be broadcast internationally. Under such circumstances, 'Lost You Forever' has a good grasp of the relationship between market and creation, achieving the mutual propulsion of costume and historical dramas, encompassing excellent Chinese traditional culture and socialist core values. As a model, 'Lost You Forever' has great exemplary and inspirational significance.”

Deputy Director Xu Yan'ning of Guangdong Provincial Radio and Television Bureau’s Television Drama Management Department stated that 'Lost You Forever' is a result of the Guangdong Provincial Radio and Television Bureau's promotion of the creation and production of high-quality Cantonese dramas, but it is by no means the end, rather a new beginning for artistic innovation and excellence.

(Edited by Wang Yao)

cr. 中国文艺网

 Kokuto:

Today, I'm determined to respond to at least one post. Lucky you, HeadintheClouds. lol

Lucky me, indeed! :-).

Unfortunately, it's been the bad kind of busy. A demanding new job and trying to learn a whole bunch of new things. I'm getting too old for this :-).

 Kokuto:

Which made me think we COULD get another version, sooner than than later, though it would be from another country.

I didn't like the Korean version of Bu Bu Jing Xin, although I know that it has a lot of fans. To me, It failed to capture the essence of the novel and the characters. I felt like it leaned too much into the idol romance aspect (now, that sounds familiar. LOL). I guess it was difficult to do a 1:1 adaptation since they were restricted by their history so couldn't exactly re-create the same characters. But the creeping sense of claustrophobia as the female lead finds herself increasingly trapped by history, tried as she might, just wasn't there. The shorter length didn't help with this aspect.

This reminded me that I didn't check out the Thai version. Although, I'd imagined they'd run into similar issues. 

 Kokuto:

so many seem to prefer the more heroic characters and the oft asked for HE.

Season 2 seems like it was made by a different team to Season 1. I don't know what it was, but it feels like it was made at a later time instead of merely one product being split into two. 

For me, it wasn't about wanting XY to be heroic, but rather that she didn't really grow or mature. I don't think TH writes heroic characters. Her characters are very human with flaws - something that I like about her work. I think XL is probably as close to "ideal" as you'd get from her. All of her other leads have done things that had me going "Look at your life. Look at your choices!!"  LOL.

Like some people, I liked WXL, but once she became XY, she devolved instead of evolved. Her fear came to define her and she didn't seem to make any effort to overcome it. Maybe, I should say she didn't make enough effort and just accepted circumstances - using them as excuses. This isn't something that I like in real life or in a character. Coupled with a few other characteristics that I find off-putting, she is just not my cup of tea. I think her flaws outweighed her good points for me. 

 Kokuto:

That said, I didn't feel like she was playing her abandonment card so much in S2... which made the Jing thing even more weird.

For me, it's that her mindset didn't change. For 3/4 of the story, it was "I'm an unlucky person. My mother chose something else before me." As a child, that's fine because children are self-focused. But once you're an adult, you'd think she would start to think about things differently. But still with that "My mother would leave me, but Jing never would". Come on!! What that suggested to me is that she still did not mature and learned that sometimes, as responsible adults, you have to make sacrifices. 

 Kokuto:

I wonder, if XY would have looked better, if Jing had been more developed and less of a doormat?

Jing's lack of growth 1000% contributed to XY's lack of growth in my eyes. Because he didn't grow so he remained symbolic of her abandonment issue - her relationship with him didn't successfully evolve away from that. There were moments in the story where Jing's character could have been written to be more developed, but the author consistently chose to keep him incompetent. She killed his grandmother so Jing never really showed that he could successfully assert himself against her. XY did 95% of the work getting rid of FFYY for him (by "seducing his brother, no less - as emasculating a choice as you could get from all the writing choices possible). And FFYY killed Hou, otherwise, Jing would have been off with the fairies. Oh, then his love rival saved his ass. I mean, could this character be any more hopeless???

Did you watch The Longest Promise with Xiao Zhan? Xiao Zhan's character in there was how I'd imagined a non-faulty Jing to be. But then I realized that if Jing had been written that way, he would have really stood out. And that wasn't the role that he was meant to play in this story.

I sense that the author deliberately chose to keep Jing from developing positively and by association, XY from developing because her abandonment issue was a huge factor that stood between her and XL. If XY no longer had this fear, she would behave very differently, which would mean a very different relationship with XL. But this was not the story that the author wanted to tell.  

 Kokuto:

As for XL. I treasured each of his appearances. Yes, even his drinking appearances, cause who doesn't love angsty quality time with Maoqiu? Okay, maybe AH didn't. ;p

Although the drama XL was not "my" XL, I still do like him. And TJC's acting was lovely and helped save some of the writing for me. He and Maoqiu make me cry more than his romance with XY. At this point, I'm watching mainly for TJC's XL.

I know that some of Jing's fans complained about XL's receiving extra scenes, but can I say, that many of XL's fans were not happy with those extra scenes that he got? Someone commented that the drama team did a great job of giving every fandom what they didn't want. LOL. It was pretty accurate. 

 Kokuto:

And in Peach Blossom Goddess' review, she also seemed to feel the flaws were suitable for such long lived mythical characters and the source material.

It probably comes down to what each viewer wants and/or can accept from characters. Flaws are fine. I don't need She-Ra heroic from every FL. But if you're not semi-likeable, then at least be somewhat compelling. XY failed on both fronts for me. I pitied her, but that was about it. I should say that I pitied the novel XY. The novel XY came across as young, scared and helpless. She frustrated and annoyed me, but I do feel sorry for her. The drama XY can go kick rocks :-). 

 Kokuto:

Except for the choice of Jing. That's always going to be just wrong. lol

Jing is only the right choice in Bizarro World ;-).

 liddi:

There was a LYF symposium held on 8 Aug 2024 where Tong Hua talked about her maiden foray into scriptwriting, and compares the novel which was mostly based on Xiao Yao's perspective, vs the drama, which is more of an omnipotent one:

Thank you for sharing this, liddi. It was very interesting.

 liddi:

When I wrote the novel, it was based more on a single perspective. That is, 70-80% of the time, the story was revealed based on the female lead's POV. For other characters, I would think... that is I often say that we should consider 10 parts, but what is put on paper is only 3 parts. And perhaps due to limitations in expressing through our writing, we might possibly only be able to convey 1 part to the readers.

 liddi:

Also, since the creative process of scriptwriting is different, it requires more of an omnipotent perspective. You stand together with each character and experience [what they are going through], instead of the novel's perspective which leans more towards the female lead's. As such, when I was writing the script, I revealed the buried lines of the novel.

What Tong Hua did and didn't say here is interesting. Notably, she didn't say that the drama characters were different from the novel characters. Instead, she said the drama revealed more about each character, including some of the buried lines in the novel.

This means just because NovelXL appeared to behave stoically from Xiao Yao's perspective doesn't mean he was an emotional ice cube. Thus TJC's portrayal of Drama!XL could have been a more accurate portrayal of XL's emotional range than the impression we got from NovelXL.

I also think the drama highlighted just how shady Jing was.  Glad TH cleared that up :)

 HeadInTheClouds:

I don't think TH writes heroic characters. Her characters are very human with flaws - something that I like about her work. I think XL is probably as close to "ideal" as you'd get from her. All of her other leads have done things that had me going "Look at your life. Look at your choices!!"

I just finished Memories Scattered Across the Galaxy and I really like Luo Xun/Luo Lan. I found her character to outshine the male leads in the novel. I especially liked the morally gray Luo Lan. I think she is as compelling a character as Xiang Liu and is very comparable to Xiang Liu in many ways.

 HeadInTheClouds:

I should say that I pitied the novel XY. The novel XY came across as young, scared and helpless. She frustrated and annoyed me, but I do feel sorry for her. The drama XY can go kick rocks :-). 

Haha, I share the same sentiment. I didn't really mind that Drama!XY behaved more stoically than NovelXY, but I absolutely hated Drama!XY's toddler-style tantrums that lasted from when Jing went missing till basically the end of the drama. Anyone who becomes that unhinged because of Jing deserves to end up with him. I find it fun to hunt for TH's buried clues about XL's reincarnation and YaoLiu's eventual reunion, but Drama!XY makes me wonder why TH is sadistic enough to subject XL to this fate.