Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 solarlunareclipse:

In Episode 7, Ye Shi Qi tells Xiao Liu he'll deal with Xiang Liu going forward. It then cuts to a scene where malaria is spreading through Xiang Liu's army camp. The following scene after that is Jing Ye arriving in town, followed by the revelation that Yu Jiang is taking back the properties by the river including Rejuvenation Hall. The next scene is Xiao Liu and Ye Shi Qi going to talk to Yu Jiang and Jing Ye recognizing Ye Shi Qi as Jing. This whole sequence could be a long question and answer sequence, which first poses the question of how does Ye Shi Qi plan to deal with Xiang Liu, and then answering it by implying he orchestrated the spread of malaria through Xiang Liu's army camp, orchestrated Jing Ye coming to town to take back properties by the river, and orchestrated getting recognized by Jing Ye. If these events were not orchestrated by Jing, then the question of how Ye Shi Qi planned to deal with XL would been a loose end that never got answered. I don't think this was Tong Hua's intention in writing the script.

I view YSQ's statement about "dealing" with XL differently. I viewed it as YSQ saying to WXL that he would interact with XL going forward in her place. From TSJ/YSQ's perspective, he saw WXL coming away from each interaction with XL with injuries, something that looked like a hickey, or both. My sense was that TSJ/YSQ thought that if he could take WXL's place, WXL would no longer be injured or have XL leave hickeys on her. I think it was fair for TSJ/YSQ to be concerned in the circumstances and to want to protect WXL. 

I didn't feel like the statement was meant to indicate that TSJ/YSQ planned to do something specific in order to "deal with" or "take care of" XL as (what he perceived to be) a problem in WXL's life. So I don't feel like the drama would have left an open question about how TSJ/YSQ was going to deal with XL if he hadn't orchestrated the remnant army getting sick or his identity being exposed. 

Especially since TSJ's identity being exposed and XL's army contracting disease didn't change anything in terms of stopping WXL and XL interacting and having TSJ's identity exposed meant that he was forced to live away from WXL, leaving more room than before for WXL and XL to interact. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Ye Shi Qi’s suspicious side-eye reaction to hearing that Rejuvenation Hall will be taken back by Yu Xin - https://youtu.be/mwBn2wiUOac?si=XiB5jO83Ayr07C7p&t=1350

I don't view this as a suspicious reaction?

 solarlunareclipse:

Tu Shan family emblem in big banners in front of Yu Mansion. This indicates that Jing was aware of Yu Jiang's association with the Tu Shan clan - https://youtu.be/mwBn2wiUOac?si=jrgPLERpr4cIwHC2&t=1382; Compare this to Tu Shan family emblem on Fang Feng Yi Ying’s carriage - https://youtu.be/FHhx3GlJKQA?si=BItzGSoT03jh8PEU&t=968

I have no doubt that TSJ/YSQ would have been aware that Yu Shin was working for the Tushan clan and that the Tushan clan owned the clinic and many other buildings in QS town. 

We also know that Yu Shin does not have the authority to meet with TSJ directly and would likely not be able to recognize YSQ as TSJ if they were to meet. So I don't think this information is relevant. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Ye Shi Qi looking in Jing Ye’s direction and holding eye contact before she “recognizes” him. If he didn't want to be recognized, he wouldn't have held eye contact with Jing Ye - https://youtu.be/mwBn2wiUOac?si=eKcqHq5Pnce5STy-&t=1453

I interpreted the body language in this scene very differently. 

I saw this as YSQ noticing / recognizing that Jing Ye was unexpectedly present and immediately looking away, hoping that she would not see his face and recognize him. When she did recognize him, he continued limping away and wouldn't look at her. When WXL told him to look after his family affairs and left, TSJ/YSQ tried to walk after her and only Jing Ye clinging to him stopped him. After WXL left (when there would no longer be any reason for him to pretend in front of her) he still looked very upset. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Tong Hug adapted the novel to the drama script herself. I don't think she made a mistake in changing the timing of TSJ revealing his identity to CX.

By "mistake" I mean "bad choice". IMO, there have been many changes in the drama script that are bad choices. Whether they were made with Tong Hua's blessing or despite her objection I don't know, but I don't think it's all that relevant. 

CX already knew that TSJ was YSQ, this was not about revealing a hidden identity. It was about TSJ/YSQ making a statement about who he was (WXL's YSQ) and how CX should deal with him. 

 solarlunareclipse:

I think this change was made to highlight that TSJ wasn't willing to have WXL to step out of his life and he helped orchestrate WXL's capture by stating that he is Ye Shi Qi, knowing that this allowed CX to threaten to harm him without suffering the repercussions of offending the Tu Shan clan.

I personally don't view the change that way, but I don't think it's impossible for that to be the case.

However, if that is the case, I think it marks a major change to TSJ's character in the drama compared to his character in the novel. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Whether Jing had romantic feelings for FFYY or not, I don't think he rejected her outright in the novel.

Personally, I feel very strongly that TSJ had zero romantic feelings for FFYY. 

If you're saying that TSJ should have been very clear with FFYY that he wanted to break off the engagement and he was wrong for not doing so, I think that's a fair critique. But my interpretation was that him not being extremely clear about his intention to do so and not putting up a solid wall between them and freezing FFYY out was due to him wanting to be respectful and to not hurt FFYY more than necessary. Not due to him wanting to keep his romantic options open. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Yi Ying had all the ideal qualities that Jing looked for, was extremely capable at managing the Tu Shan clan's business affairs, and was hand-selected to be his wife by his mother, who took all his requirements into consideration.

Those may have been things TSJ wanted and cared about before TSH tortured him and before he fell for WXL, but I never got the impression that he cared about any of those things after his torture / after he fell for WXL. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Jing adopted a wait-and-see approach with Yi Ying..

I didn't get the impression that that's what he was doing. 

 solarlunareclipse:

Towards the end of the Chi Shui Autumn Tournament, Feng Long and Xin Yue organized a banquet on a boat for Jing and Yi Ying. Xiao Liu opted not to attend, but she did catch sight of Jing tenderly caring for Yi Ying as the boat sailed by. While the novel doesn't specifically reveal who the man assisting Yi Ying was, we can infer it was Jing from the description of the man as wearing sky-blue robes and being likened to tall bamboo in a mountain stream.

赤、橙、黄、绿、青、蓝、紫……各种颜色、各种样子的烟花绽放在船的上方，映照得立在船头的两人分外清楚。男子穿着天青色的衣衫，静静而站，清隽飘逸，有若山涧中的青柏修竹。女子身材高挑，一袭水红的绣花曳地长裙勾勒得她纤腰只堪一握。她好似喝醉了，半仰头惊讶地看着烟花，踉跄走了几步，身子摇摇欲坠，差点跌倒。男子伸手扶住她，她软软地倚在男子身上，犹如美丽缠绵的菟丝花。
Red, orange, yellow, green, cyan, blue, violet... Fireworks of all colors and shapes burst above the boat, illuminating the two figures standing at the bow. The man, dressed in sky-blue robes, stood quietly, his elegant and graceful demeanor resembling the cyan cypress and tall bamboo in a mountain stream. The woman, tall and slender, wore a long, embroidered red dress that trailed on the ground, accentuating her slim waist. She seemed to be drunk, half-raising her head and looking at the fireworks in surprise, staggering a few steps and nearly falling. The man reached out to steady her, and she leaned softly against him, like a beautiful and delicate dodder flower.

— Vol 1 Ch 12 (Chapter 12)

I agree that the strong implication in this scene is that XY was watching TSJ and FFYY.

But all I see is TSJ accompanying FFYY (very possibly because his grandmother told him to) to watch fireworks and standing away from her, and FFYY was drunk. When she staggered and nearly fell, TSJ steadied her and she leaned against him. 

Obviously the whole scene plays heavily into WXL's insecurities in her male body. But I don't view this scene as an indication that TSJ had romantic interest in FFYY or wanted to keep his options open with her. 

 solarlunareclipse:

In addition to taking care of Yi Ying when she was drunk, it's suggested that Jing was not normally apprehensive about accepting Yi Ying's displays of affection. During an occasion at a tavern after Xiao Yao's introduction ceremony, Yi Ying poured wine for Jing and brought the cup to his lips for him to drink. Since Xiao Yao was present, Jing acted stiff and didn’t move to drink, but Feng Long hinted that this was not Jing’s usual behavior towards Yi Ying.

“咦？往常也不见你扭捏，今日倒端起来了。”
"Eh? You usually don't act so shy, but today you're putting on airs."

— Vol 1 Ch 14 (Chapter 14)

I didn't read the scene that way. Perhaps there's something in the mandarin text that wasn't captured in Koala's translation? 

The way I read it, Jing was awkward because Feng Long referred to FFYY as his sister in law (reminding TSJ and XY of his engagement) and asked her to shut TSJ up for him, and FFYY did so by putting a cup of wine to TSJ's lips (way more awkward than just pouring him a glass). 

TSJ might accept that kind of joking activity from a friend like Feng Long or Lirong Chang (and, IMO, that's why Feng Long notices and comments on his unusually shyness/awkwardness), but my impression was that he was very uncomfortable having FFYY act that way with him. Especially in front of XY (and especially after Feng Long referred to FFYY as his sister-in-law as if FFYY and TSJ were already married) as that was like rubbing the engagement in XY's face. 

-----

Chapter 14:

Feng Long had tried all the wines and poured a sweet fruit wine for Xiao Yao. “Try this.”

Xiao Yao accepted it and said, “You chat with them, no need to take care of me.”

Xing Yue heard and interjected, “My Gege isn’t like this normally, usually people take care of him and he never takes care of others. He’s definitely different today, and I’ve never seen him so solicitous of even me.”

Feng Long chastised her, “Nonsense!”

Xing Yue made a face back and turned to Jing “Jing gege, you’re close with my brother, am I talking nonsense?”

Jing smiled, “No, it’s not nonsense.”

Feng Long was not happy and pointed at Jing before saying to Yi Yang. “Sister-in-law, please help shut him up for me.”

Yi Yang’s face was red with embarrassment and she glanced at Hou before saying, “Stop it!” before swiftly putting some food on Jing’s plate and pouring him a cup of wine.

Feng Long shook his head. “This doesn’t count as shutting his lips up.”

Feng Long and Xing Yue were playfully cheering her on so Yi Yang didn’t mind and picked up a cup of wine and placed it under Jing’s lips and said, “Please enjoy.”

Jing sat there stiffly and didn’t move, a very awkward smile on his face.

Folks were cheering and Feng Long wondered, “Eh? You’re not awkward normally, how come you’re so proper today?”

Jing lowered his eyes and drank the cup of wine from Yi Yang’s hand. Zhuan Xu and Feng Long clapped and Feng Long said, “Good for sister-in-law!”

Hou also laughed and Yi Yang glanced at him before breaking into a smile.

Xiao Yao felt her heart tighten and ate all the vegetables on her plate and Feng Long got her another serving.

 solarlunareclipse:

Another sign that indicates that Jing was taking a wait-and-see approach with Yi Ying is Jing’s conversation with King Gao Xin.

高辛王慢悠悠地说：“我记得你和防风小怪的女儿有婚约，是我记错了吗？”
King Gao Xin said slowly, "I remember you have an engagement with the daughter of Fang Feng clan. Am I mistaken?"

十七额头冒汗，僵硬地回道：“没、有。”
Shi Qi's forehead broke out in a sweat as he stiffly replied, "No.”

“是你没有婚约，还是我没有记错？”
"Is it that you aren’t engaged, or that I'm not mistaken?"

“是、是陛下没、没记错。”
"Yes, yes, Your Majesty isn’t, isn’t mistaken."

— Vol 1 Ch 9 (Chapter 9)

Jing could have taken this opportunity to assure King Gao Xin that he had no intentions of following through with marrying Yi Ying. Instead, he simply confirmed that King Gao Xin was not mistaken in remembering that he was engaged to her, again hinting at Jing’s wait-and-see approach with Yi Ying.

I suppose TSJ could have said something like that to the Grand Emperor. But it would have been a very disrespectful thing to say before the engagement was actually broken, and I feel like it would be very out of character for TSJ to act so disrespectfully. 

 solarlunareclipse:

The reason Jing redoubled his efforts to cling to Xiao Yao was because Yi Ying didn’t like him, leaving him feeling unvalidated as a man.

Again, I don't read his actions that way. But that's just me. 

 Meow:

Oh noooooo, do you see that XY on this poster standing back to XL... Why? Why it's so different from novel?

?

I haven't finished watching the first season and haven't started the second, but every one of his awesome posters makes me cry ?

I shared my thoughts on this poster in another thread.

 AH :

The fact that they put XY out at sea surrounded by seagulls in the second poster again makes me think that some of the changes they made to the scene where XY spent 7 days waiting for XL on the shore of Five Gods Mountain outside of the dragon bone prison (e.g., having XY wear red robes while she waited, having XL also be shown in that scene, and having him also wear red robes) is meant to be a nod to chapter 43 (where XY is nearly assassinated by the seagull demon out at sea, XL saves her and the water + his white robes are stained red with his blood, XY is still wearing red wedding robes, and she ends up falling asleep in XL's arms on the beach after stopping him from leaving and goading him into drinking her blood), since they chose to not include it in the drama. 

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever-season-2/119993-what-the-shell-lounge-bar-xiang-liu-s-underwater-luxury-lounge?pid=3087721&page=293#p3087721

Oh, I can't believe I forgot to mention this in the episode recap ... The Invisible Hong Jiang makes an appearance!!!  In a scene where we see exactly WHY Xiang Liu cannot simply abandon his comrades so he can indulge in a love for himself, great as it may be.  Truly, Xiang Liu is righteous, loyal, and unselfish.

 Kokuto:

Question.  Did Jing try to bait and trap FFYY into poisoning him in the novel?

This also happened in one of the episodes.

I remember XY told Jing Ye to be extra carefull with medicine that Jing took in chapter 33 or 34 . 

*Warning for some foul language ahead. 

I haven't had the chance to watch in full, just XL's clips here and there. From what I'm seeing, I won't be watching it in full. As someone who only like the character of XL in the novel (the relationship with XY is just one part of his character), the way the drama is writing him is all kinds of fuck up. Who the hell is this person I'm watching? A XL's clone? His brother from a different mother? Cause it's not the XL that I know from the novel.

Where is my snowflakes, white lotus, not touched by the dust of the mortal world XL? Jebus, he comes across like some lovesick/lovelorn fool. They want to use the romance plot lines to create drama and draw views and sacrifice characters and story integrity. The last straw is when they have XL calling the resistance army the rebel army. WTF? No, just no. I do not claim this XL, the drama fans can have him.

And I haven't even touch on the character of XY. 

 HeadInTheClouds:

Where is my snowflakes, white lotus, not touched by the dust of the mortal world XL? Jebus, he comes across like some lovesick/lovelorn fool. They want to use the romance plot lines to create drama and draw views and sacrifice characters and story integrity. The last straw is when they have XL calling the resistance army the rebel army. WTF? No, just no. I do not claim this XL, the drama fans can have him.

You and AH are going to have to start a support group. :)

I do agree, they've made XL / FFB far more emotional than he was in Season 1, and even then, folks were complaining about it.  I wonder if part of it is that they can't do the grass snake ash line here, so they have to be more obvious in showing the love that exists between XY and XL, hence the red wedding outfits.

I saw that, but put it down to a bad translation or Tencent buying into the propaganda!  Though I'm not sure what Tong Hua called it in the novel.

I think we'll see more of the icy XL now that he's at the point of no return.

"Whether Jing had romantic feelings for FFYY or not, I don't think he rejected her outright in the novel."

I kinda agree and I had the same feeling while reading the novel, but for different reasons than the ones you mentioned. His conversation with XY from chapter 14 is one of the first that comes to my mind. His choice of words kinda made me wonder what would have happened if FFYY would have liked him. He made it seems as if he won't marry her because she dislike him and not so much as an assurance to XY that their marriage won't ever happen because none of them wants it. Like even XY makes a point that if FFYY doesn't want him, to come back to be her shiqi, instead of saying it the other way around, if you don't like her, than you come back to be my shiqi. 

Chapter 14

"Jing didn’t dare do anything back to her but he also didn’t budge “I won’t marry her. She doesn’t like me so she likely doesn’t want to marry me either.”

Xiao Yao stopped shoving “I don’t believe it! Why reason does she have to not like you?”

“I’m a cripple and I can tell she’s shocked and dismayed. One time she saw the scars on my body and was shocked…..” To say “shocked” was an understatement, Yi Yang’s face was stark white and she was petrified, not daring to look at him in that moment. Since then, when they were alone together, she would purposely keep her distance from him."

...... 

" Jing said “I’m not interested in Yi Yang and she’s not interested in me. This time when I go back, I’ll tell my grandmother to end the engagement.”

“Hhmmm, huh?” Xiao Yao’s mind was still fuzzy so it told her a moment to process it “How do you know? She’s so nice to you…..”

Jing cut her off “Xiao Yao, I’ve met plenty of women interested in me, I know how a woman looks at a man she wants. No matter how nice she is to me, she’s never looked at me like that"

... 

"Xiao Yao suddenly thought of something and sat up excitedly “If she doesn’t want you, then come back to be my Shi Qi!”