XY realized that her grandmom had probably loved her grandfather at one point when she saw the jewelry in her grandmom's palace (chapter 15).H19279:
Your interpretation is that when XY talked about being afraid of a man's hands in chapter 8, she did not know that her grandmother had loved her grandfather once? And it was only in chapter 15 that she came to that conclusion, based on the fact that her grandmother owned a flashy headdress that a woman might wear to attract a man? That seems possible.
My interpretation was different. I thought that XY probably didn't say what she said to the Yellow Emperor in that scene only because she found the headdress. I thought she probably also based her words on information she had from her childhood before chapter 8.
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Chapter 15:
Xiao Yao sat at the dressing table and opened an accessory box. Inside was a ruby red headdress that glittered with life as if its owner was coming back right to wear it. But really in Xiao Yao’s memory, its owner never wore it before. She put it on her head and it was magnificent and a crowning glory but it was hard to imagine her grandmother wearing something as flashy as this.
“If you like it, take it.” The Yellow Emperor’s voice reached her.
Xiao Yao put down the accessory and closed the box. She shook her head “A woman wears this for someone to see, or more accurately to entrance a man. If I wear this and a man looked at me, I won’t know if he’s looking at the hair piece jewels or me. What if I mistake his feelings and fall for him for real. Aren’t I just looking for trouble?”
The Yellow Emperor was stunned while Xiao Yao stared at him and casually said, “Grandmother really liked you at one time.”
The Yellow Emperor stared at her with anger in his eyes.
In WXL's view, Xiang Liu was kind of similar to Huang Di. XL took great responsibility and loyalty to Sheng Nong army. And men like XL or Huang Di would not place woman that they loved as first choice which is the prerequisite for her
Same for Cang Xuan.
Wow. And I guess this was before Lei Zhu died, since Chang Pu killed Tong Yu before Lei Zhu died?AH :
But the Yellow Emperor still didn't go to visit Lei Zhu before she died, even though he behaved like this towards Tong Yu before she died?
Lei Zhu completely heartbroke when Chang Pu killed herself. She refused to meet Huang Di toward the end of her life. Huang Di ordered the royal doctor to report her illness to him right away at any moment. The moment Huang Di "kicked" Tong Yu away was thounsand years before Tong Yu died. When Tong Yu died, he wanted to pick her up and carry her but Yi Peng looked at him with hatred and screamed at him to tell him staying away from them. Below is the translation of Huang Di's conversation with the doctor at midnight about Lei Zhu's condition.
And the royal doctor diagnosed that Lei Zhu could only live for a few more days.
My interpretation was different. I thought that XY probably didn't say what she said to the Yellow Emperor in that scene only because she found the headdress. I thought she probably also based her words on information she had from her childhood before chapter 8.
with regard to chapter 8, I don't think that XY thought much of her grandmom if she loved her grandfather in the past. For XY, romantic love was not of her concern. But at that time she knew that her grandmom was not happy and lonely and her grandfather had something more important than his wife. She already had negativity toward men like her grandfather. With regard to that particular moment (chapter 8), the only man that WXL around her life and gave her the impression that he had something more important than his woman was mainly XL.
H19279:
In WXL's view, Xiang Liu was kind of similar to Huang Di. XL took great responsibility and loyalty to Sheng Nong army. And men like XL or Huang Di would not place woman that they loved as first choice which is the prerequisite for her
Same for Cang Xuan.
Yes, Cang Xuan, Feng Long were all in the same category, too. But she only realized that later. In chapter 8, XY just realized that CX could be very cruel and ruthless.
Additionally, WXL probably had the idea that in a relationship if the man was dominant and strong then they would take control of the relationship and they could let go and women suffered afterward. Thus, the woman when depending upon a man would lose herself and the control of her own life. "But when I am hugged/held by someone, I will use both hands to hold him tightly because I am afraid that he will let go. I would forget to think because of the few drops of honey he gave me. ". Thus, one of the reason why XY later chose Jing (or accept his promise) is that she could take control in the relationship, Jing said he would give first and waited for her and YSQ had promised to listen to her whatever.
Thus, one of the reason why XY later chose Jing (or accept his promise) is that she could take control in the relationship, Jing said he would give first and waited for her and YSQ had promised to listen to her whatever.
XY is too extreme though. Wanting some power and control in a relationship is one thing, taking on an emasculated man is another whole another level of craziness! And someone who can't imagine a life without the love of thier life is one thing, but to stake your whole existence on another person is also another level of craziness.
With regard to that particular moment (chapter 8), the only man that WXL around her life and gave her the impression that he had something more important than his woman was mainly XL.
Who was XL's woman's that would give WXL this impression? AFAIK, WXL had never seen XL with a woman at this time.
I've covered this at length in this thread before, but some fans seem to view the promise as something that really imposed huge constraints on XY that forced her to act differently from how she wanted to act... and I don't view it that way. So I don't feel all that frustrated by TSJ not going to XY and telling her she doesn't have to keep her side of the promise.
Didn't folks point out that one reason why XY refused the 'underwater kiss' with XL before the beach rejection was because Jing's 15 Year Dragonbone Prison Promise?
Lei Zhu completely heartbroke when Chang Pu killed herself. She refused to meet Huang Di toward the end of her life. Huang Di ordered the royal doctor to report her illness to him right away at any moment. The moment Huang Di "kicked" Tong Yu away was thounsand years before Tong Yu died. When Tong Yu died, he wanted to pick her up and carry her but Yi Peng looked at him with hatred and screamed at him to tell him staying away from them.
Below is the translation of Huang Di's conversation with the doctor at midnight about Lei Zhu's condition.
Thank you for those details and the translation! ^^
with regard to chapter 8, I don't think that XY thought much of her grandmom if she loved her grandfather in the past. For XY, romantic love was not of her concern. But at that time she knew that her grandmom was not happy and lonely and her grandfather had something more important than his wife. She already had negativity toward men like her grandfather.
That all seems plausible to me.
With regard to that particular moment (chapter 8), the only man that WXL around her life and gave her the impression that he had something more important than his woman was mainly XL.
That's interesting. My impression was that XY lacked trust in all men at that point, including XL and TSJ.
Kokuto:
Didn't folks point out that one reason why XY refused the 'underwater kiss' with XL before the beach rejection was because Jing's 15 Year Dragonbone Prison Promise?
Yes, the promise was one of the reasons she refused to "kiss" XL rather than drown in chapter 13. XY mentions it in chapter 14 and thinks about it again in chapter 26. Although the reason that's given in chapter 13 is that she didn't view herself as a woman before (e.g., when she was cool with "kissing" XL for air many times as WXL), but now (i.e., now that she was XY in her true female body) she couldn't do it no matter what. And then the reason she gives XL is the whole "not suitable to be in a woman's dreams" reason.
But even if the only reason she had been willing to risk letting him drown her rather than "kiss" him was the promise, I don't see her refusal to "kiss" him in that situation as a loss or as the promise forcing XY to not do something that she wanted to do. IMO, a forced kiss like that is not romantic and not a win for any ship. I'd rather have no kiss between XL and XY (at least in canon - fanfic fixes everything) than have a kiss where XY was forced into it against her will in order to not drown.
Yes, the promise was one of the reasons she refused to "kiss" XL rather than drown in chapter 13. XY mentions it in chapter 14 and thinks about it again in chapter 26. Although the reason that's given in chapter 13 is that she didn't view herself as a woman before (e.g., when she was cool with "kissing" XL for air many times as WXL), but now (i.e., now that she was XY in her true female body) she couldn't do it no matter what. And then the reason she gives XL is the whole "not suitable to be in a woman's dreams" reason.
Yes, we know XY says a lot of things, that aren't necessarily true. But she also said (and attempted) later, when FFB / XL took her underwater to show her she could breath water, she COULD / wanted to accept an air kiss from FFB/ XL, now that Jing was out of the picture. So it didn't really have anything to do with being a woman or not.
Likewise, would she have totally rejected XL on the beach, had she not had the promise from Jing? Someone who was pathologically lonely? hmmmm
But even if the only reason she had been willing to risk letting him drown her rather than "kiss" him was the promise, I don't see her refusal to "kiss" him in that situation as a loss or as the promise forcing XY to not do something that she wanted to do. IMO, a forced kiss like that is not romantic and not a win for any ship. I'd rather have no kiss between XL and XY (at least in canon - fanfic fixes everything) than have a kiss where XY was forced into it against her will in order to not drown.
Where are you getting forced, if the only reason she didn't was because of the Dragonbone Promise? The air kisses were something she was fine with before and after.
Almost all the air kisses in Cdrama take place in that situation. Either drown or get an air kiss.
3 hours ago
AH :
Yes, the promise was one of the reasons she refused to "kiss" XL rather than drown in chapter 13. XY mentions it in chapter 14 and thinks about it again in chapter 26. Although the reason that's given in chapter 13 is that she didn't view herself as a woman before (e.g., when she was cool with "kissing" XL for air many times as WXL), but now (i.e., now that she was XY in her true female body) she couldn't do it no matter what. And then the reason she gives XL is the whole "not suitable to be in a woman's dreams" reason.
Yes, we know XY says a lot of things, that aren't necessarily true. But she also said (and attempted) later, when FFB / XL took her underwater to show her she could breath water, she COULD / wanted to accept an air kiss from FFB/ XL, now that Jing was out of the picture. So it didn't really have anything to do with being a woman or not.
When chapter 13 talks about XY not being able to "kiss" XL for air now, even though she could previously when she didn't view herself as a woman, that reason is given in the form of narration or XY's thoughts. It's not a lie that XY says out loud to deceive XL or anyone else. If it is XY's thought, and not objective narration, it could perhaps be a self-deceiving thought, but I personally don't think it is.
I don't think it's accurate to say that XY wanted to accept an air kiss from XL in chapter 26. In that chapter, after being furious with XL and debating with herself, she did decide to "kiss" XL for air rather than risking death by drowning again. The differences there are important.
I'd also note that the circumstances in chapter 26 were very different from the circumstances in chapter 13. It wasn't just that the 15 year promise had expired and TSJ was married to another woman. It was also after she and XL slept beside each other in XY's bed in chapter 17, and after the years that XL spent healing her in his clam shell in chapter 21, when he tenderly caressed her cheek, embraced her, and slept beside her after healing her on the night of every full moon for 37 years. All while XY was in her female form. XY had also kissed TSJ (in her female form) many times by that point. So her comfort zone in chapter 26 (in terms of what she was comfortable doing with XL specifically in her female form and in terms of what she was comfortable / experienced doing in general in her female form) was not the same as it was in chapter 13 when she was new to being back in her female form.
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Chapter 13:
Suddenly Xiao Yao felt a power strike her back and her body flew over the cliff.
Xiao Yao wasn’t scared, she had been cliff diving since she was young and she actually quite enjoyed this free fall before entering the ocean.
The wind blew her hair around her and her robe billowed out so she looked like a falling butterfly with green wings flying towards the ocean.
Xiao Yao stretched out her body and squinted her eyes, when suddenly her eyes opened wide – under the moonlight, in the dark blue ripples of the ocean, a white haired white robed man was laying on the waves. He had a slight smile as he looked up at her, as if enjoying a dance that was for his eyes only.
Xiao Yao wanted to escape but she was in the middle of falling and her only way was down. She could only watch as she got closer and closer to him, closer and closer, until she thought she would fall right on top of Xiang Liu. At that moment he sank into the ocean and she entered the water. He grabbed her hand and pulled her down with him.
He held her under water but Xiao Yao knew he wouldn’t kill her but only wanted to torment her so she endured it.
When the final breath was almost gone, Xiao Yao grabbed his hands and pleaded with him but he ignored her and kept swimming underwater. Xiao Yao felt her entire chest was about to explode and her hands no longer had any strength. She let go and Xiang Liu grabbed her around the waist with a smile and pointed to his lips indicating that if she wanted fresh air, she was going to have to get it herself.
Xiao Yao shook her head. In the past, she was Wen Xiao Liu, she never saw herself as a woman. But now, no matter what happened, she couldn’t do it.
Xiang Liu’s smile disappeared and he embraced Xiao Yao and continued to sink deeper.
He stared at Xiao Yao, and Xiao Yao stared at him.
Xiang Liu was descending faster and Xiao Yao realized that faced with a Nine-headed demon who didn’t give a shit about anything, her identity as the Gao Xing Princess couldn’t protect her.
Xiang Liu was sinking even faster and the soft water was filled with such pressure it made Xiao Yao feel like it would rip her to pieces. Her chest was about to explode and her entire body hurt.
Life and death – it was one simple choice.
Their faces were so close, so close their noses were almost touching. All Xiao Yao needed to do was move forward an inch and she would be pressing to his lips.
But…she couldn’t!
Xiao Yao felt all the water rushing into her head. His lips were so close, so close…..and then Xiao Yao lost consciousness and fainted.
Xiang Liu jerked her head forward to his lips and then rocketed to the surface with her.
The two of them broke the surface.
Xiang Liu sat crossed legged on the surface and pulled up the unconscious Xiao Yao and placed her on his leg. He summoned power to his palms and patted her a few times on the back. Xiao Yao coughed and spit out mouthfuls of water. She was gradually regaining consciousness though her entire body was weak and sore and her head was heavy. She couldn’t move, so closed her eyes and rested wearily on Xiang Liu’s lap.
After resting for a good while, Xiao Yao finally was able to think straight and she pressed down on Xiang Liu’s leg to help her sit up. Likely Xiang Liu’s power was forming a solid surface so the waves underneath her felt like a soft cushion, making her movements wobbly but she didn’t sink.
Xiang Liu was expressionless and just staring at her. He said nothing so Xiao Yao didn’t know what to say either.
They were in the middle of the ocean, surrounded by endless darkness, as if the entire world was just the two of them left.
...
Xiao Yao continued pouting and Xiang Liu coldly humphed, and then he suddenly asked, “Why?”
Xiao Yao knew exactly what he was asking – why did she refuse to kiss him and would rather die. She pretended to be clueless. “Why what?”
Xiang Liu grabbed her arm and they started sinking so Xiao Yao yelped, “Oh, I remember, I remember!”
Xiang Liu stared at her and Xiao Yao said, “Because I’m scared.”
“It’s scarier than death?”
Xiao Liu thought about it and finally put it into words. “My Gege, that is Zhuan Xu, he said one night when we were talking that I was still a girl who dreams. So….so….I’m scared that if I’m not careful, you’ll walk into my dreams. And you…..” Xiao Yao shook her head “You’re someone who is never ever suitable to show up in a young girl’s dreams. That might actually be scarier than death.”
Xiang Liu started chuckling, and it grew louder and louder until he was laughing. He released Xiao Yao and his body drifted away.
Likewise, would she have totally rejected XL on the beach, had she not had the promise from Jing? Someone who was pathologically lonely? hmmmm
XL didn't go in for a normal kiss and then get rejected. He tried to force XY to "kiss" him for air by drowning her, and XY chose to drown. In both the drama and the novel, XL asks XY to explain "why" (i.e., why she chose to accept him drowning her rather than to give in and "kiss" him for air). In the novel, that conversation takes place in the middle of the ocean (on the surface), rather than on a beach.
So it's not like XL makes a separate advance on the surface (in the novel) or on the beach (in the drama) and XY rejects him a second time. His question is a continuation - it's about her reasons for her decision when they were under water. And in both the drama and the novel it's difficult to imagine what explanation XY could have given for her decision to let him drown her (rather than to acquiesce and "kiss" him for air) where the explanation couldn't somehow be construed as a rejection of XL. Is there something completely different that you picture her saying to him on the beach (in a scenario where she hadn't made the 15 year promise to TSJ) to explain her decision in a way that couldn't be construed as a rejection?
That said... could XY have phrased her explanation in a softer way? I assume she could, especially if she was willing to lie. But did she phrase her explanation the way she did because of the promise she made to TSJ? I personally don't think so. I think her words reflected her genuine fear of falling for XL, even though really she already had feelings for him (but perhaps wasn't fully aware of those feelings, or perhaps was in denial about those feelings) and could only try to not fall further. At that point, I think she would have tried to avoid falling for him further even if she hadn't made the 15 year promise with TSJ, and I think that part of the reason she agreed to make the 15 year promise with TSJ was that she was denying her feelings for XL and trying to stop herself from falling for him (more than she already had).
As for her loneliness, if XY hadn't made the 15 year promise to TSJ in chapter 8, would she have behaved differently towards XL in chapter 13 (e.g., willingly "kissing" him for air or at least phrasing her explanation for refusing to do so in a softer way) because she was lonely and wanted to use him to alleviate her loneliness? I personally don't think so.
XY consistently tries to address her loneliness in one of two ways. One way is to find temporary platonic companions. She is not willing to risk her heart in a romantic sense in those relationships. The second way is trying to find a permanent companion who she felt assured would always put her first and never leave her. If a candidate for category 2 came along, she'd test him over and over again and wouldn't offer her heart first.
XL could play the temporary companion role (category 1) in his own unique way, but XL didn't fit in the second category, and by that point (chapter 13) XY wasn't willing to try to create a third category for him where she would risk falling for him (further). I don't think her promise to TSJ affected that.
Where are you getting forced, if the only reason she didn't was because of the Dragonbone Promise? The air kisses were something she was fine with before and after.
When WXL was perfectly happy to let XL pass air to her under water in chapter 7, XL wasn't forcing WXL to remain under water until she ran out of air. They were running away from the guards of Five Gods Mountain together, although it was more like a date than a pursuit. XL had just accepted the bug transfer and they were both happily spending time together.
In chapter 13, XL intentionally drowns XY to try to force her to "kiss" him for air. That's a very, very different scenario.
In chapter 26, XY thinks XL prevents her from returning to the surface and pulls her down deeper because he's trying to force her to "kiss" him for air again. She's not "fine" with that. She was furious and she hotly debated what to do in her mind. In that scene she ultimately decides that this time she is willing to "kiss" him for air instead of risking her life again. But it's still a situation where she thinks she's being forced into a kiss, with death as the potential alternative.
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Chapter 7:
Xiang Liu was very calm and looked upward. “I feel like we need to run away now.” The bug summoning could not be done under concealment so it had alerted the guards in Five Gods Mountain. Xiang Liu grabbed Xiao Liu and sank into the ocean and started swimming away from Five Gods Mountain.
All the fish in the ocean came to help and created a maze to block and distract the Gao Xing soldiers and lead them astray. Xiang Liu held Xiao Liu’s hand and swam in the silent eerie bottom of the ocean. Every time Xiao Liu ran out of oxygen, Xiang Liu would pass a breath of air to him.
The bottom of the ocean was more colorful than on land, with fish of any shape and color and lots of strange creatures. Xiao Liu stared at everything with wonder and Xiang Liu did not rush him along. The Gods loved to use pearls and jellyfish to make lamps so Xiao Liu saw many of those in the palace but it was the first time she saw a living jellyfish. Its body was clear and it was fluid, like a natural lantern. It would be an insult to it not to make it into a lamp.
A huge sea conch with a brilliant hued shell, Xiao Liu tapped it wondering what its meat tasted like and Xiang Liu said “It’s not tasty.”
There was actually grass growing in the ocean, tall and so green it looked black, billowing in the waves without end. Xiang Liu took Xiao Liu walking through the ocean grass plains and he saw a pair of seahorses laying on the plains.
There were all sorts of flowers growing in the ocean as well and it was like a rainbow so bright. He tried to touch one only to have it spring teeth and try to bite back. So the flowers were predators, too, and Xiao Liu glared at Xiang Liu for not warning him. Xiang Liu smirked and then picked up Xiao Liu’s hand and then held it to touch the “flowers” again. This time the flowers were shivering with fear and Xiao Liu laughed before kicking those “flowers” a few times for good measure.
Xiao Liu knew they were being chased by Gao Xing soldiers but never felt in danger. Because Xiang Liu was so calm that it didn’t feel like they were on the run, it felt rather like Xiang Liu was taking him on a stroll through the ocean. They swam for so long underwater but Xiao Liu was really happy and the time didn’t feel long. It wasn’t until they were completely free of the chasing Gao Xing soldiers that Xiang Liu took Xiao Liu up to the surface.
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Chapter 26:
When they entered the ocean, it wasn’t a huge splash like she imagined.
When Xiao Yao opened her eyes, she curiously looked around. The ocean was parting for them ahead and closing for them behind. Their speed gradually decreased but they continued to sink into the depths.
After some time, Xiao Yao felt the water pressure gently squeezing her. She held her breath until it was almost gone and she pointed to the surface to go up. Xiang Liu grabbed her hand and wouldn’t let her go up.
Xiao Yao furiously stared at him, was he trying to force her…..to do that?
Xiang Liu smiled and pulled Xiao Yao down with him deeper. Xiao Yao’s face was turning blue and white and her brain was fighting with itself – kiss or no kiss?
Back then it was because of her promise to Jing, but now it was all in the past and Jing was married. There was no reason for her to suffer for it anymore and risk her own life….Xiao Yao made her decision and pulled on Xiang Liu’s arm and used it to propel her closer to him.
Xiang Liu stood in the water and smiled at her. Xiao Yao was embarrassed and frustrated and lowered her eyes because she didn’t dare look at him. Right as she was about to kiss Xiang Liu, he suddenly turned his head and avoided her kiss and then started laughing loudly.
Xiao Yao was so embarrassed she decided to just go die! She shook off his hand and didn’t swim upward but instead dove deeper.
Xiang Liu chased behind her and chuckled as he said “Don’t suffocate yourself to death! Try breathing. I didn’t let you swim up not because I wanted to force you to…..kiss me.” Xiang Liu’s laughter rang out again “It’s because you don’t need to do that anymore.”
Xiao Yao tried breathing and it was just like when she put the fish amethyst in her mouth. She could breathe underwater like fish. Xiao Yao realized that when Xiang Liu gave her his essential soul blood, she gained some of his powers. From now on, she could be like the daughter of the sea and swim in the water in complete freedom.
But at the moment Xiao Yao wasn’t happy about that, but instead was so embarrassed about what she just tried to do that she would rather slam her head in the water and kill herself.
Xiao Yao was so furious she screamed “Xiang Liu, you….you did that on purpose! I hate you!” She finished yelling and realized she was just like Xiang Liu and could now talk underwater.
“I, I can talk!” Xiao Yao was stunned for a moment and then back to being furious “Xiang Liu, I hate you! How dare you keep laughing? If you keep laughing, I’ll….I’ll…..” Xiao Yao couldn’t think of anything she could use to torment him. He played the world and wanted for nothing, the only thing he cared about was the Sheng Nong resistance army, but even if Xiao Yao had ten guts she didn’t dare to use the army to threaten Xiang Liu.
Xiang Liu was still laughing and Xiao Yao was still so mortified and humiliated that she turned and started swimming away, only thinking she never wanted to see Xiang Liu again.
Almost all the air kisses in Cdrama take place in that situation. Either drown or get an air kiss.
Including LYF, I've watched 11 Chinese dramas with underwater kisses. I've also watched a few Taiwanese, Thai and Korean dramas with this trope. I have a list for it. As far as I can recall, LYF was the only one where one party was intentionally drowning the other party to try to force a kiss.
TSJ himself knew that he shouldn't have said what he said and asked WXL to wait for him, since he was engaged. He acknowledged that outright before he made the ask. But XY didn't seem to think that he was wrong for asking. She knew what he wanted to say and waited patiently for him to say it. It even seemed like she prompted him.
So he knew that it was the wrong thing to do, but he did it anyway? This is a bit of a pattern with this character, isn't it? Funny that. Ah! So for Jing, it's OK to exploit someone's vulnerability because they "want" him to do it due to that very same vulnerability? Jeeze. And the fact that these things tend to benefit him the most is a double jeeze. Jing and I have very, very different values. And I said this waaay back. Just because XY agree to it, that doesn't change the fact that Jing is wrong for making this proposal when he was not a free man.
While many TSJ fans do infantilize him, sometimes to a truly incomprehensible degree, I don't think calling him naive for believing that his grandmother would accommodate his wishes should be grouped in with that infantilization. I also don't think that that belief makes TSJ pathetic.
I guess I don't see this character as naive. He was a grown man, travelling around and doing business for centuries. With the way that he was raised, he would understand the implications of such a marriage agreement and the difficulty of breaking such an arrangement. And yeah, if he's this naive at this grand age then it's pretty darn pathetic and he needs sense knocked into him, stat. I guess if I'm being generous and see him as naive, then that would probably fit into him being an overprivileged man-child who's used to getting everything that he wanted. Hmm, not sure if this is a better thing.
Since he intended to leave the Tushan clan and to return YSQ to XY at the time that he made the promise, control over ending the engagement really did rest with him as long as nothing unexpected happened to force him to stay with the clan
Yes, we know what Jing intended to do. What he hoped to do. But like I said, the control did not rest fully with him, he would have to contend with other parties who all have a stake in this engagement. Just like I may have intended and hope to sell the car, but there are four other people that whose permission I need to obtain. These are not unexpected things. These are factors that are baked into the breaking of this engagement. Maybe Jing was too naive or he over-estimated his own ability so he ended up flopping spectacularly.
I personally don't view the promise as a cunning plan that TSJ sprung on XY. iirc, we've discussed that topic at length in this thread already so I won't try to cover it again.
He saw an opportunity and he took it. Particularly given that before this he came close to losing WXY/XY and he tried several times to see her real appearance. But someone like Jing, so adept at calculating profits and losses - I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't know the benefits to him. And as you said, he knew that he shouldn't ask because he knew that it was the wrong thing to do.
You know, this whole 15-year promise thing happened early in the novel. I can look at it as characters set-up with the expectation that characters are gonna change as the novel progresses. So an act that deserved a side-eye will, with subsequent change be forgiven because the character had grown and changed for the better. Unfortunately, this didn't happen here. If anything he devolved right at the end. So in hindsight, his earlier actions remain side-eye worthy to me.
When it comes to fictional characters, living and dying for a romantic interest isn't something that I personally view as a black mark against the character.
XianXia dramas are of course filled with this trope. And because I know what to expect, I parked my brain on a different continent and just went with it. However, the amount of times that I want to reach into the screen and throttle some characters for this "love brain" idiocy has been too numerous to count. Probably why, despite watching so many Cdramas, there are not that many characters that I can say that I genuinely love or dramas that have stuck with me. Enjoyed in the moment, absolutely but not much else to return to.
Since I'm choosing to look critically at LYF, then evaluating its characters will also be more critical. It's not about love love love. Even with this trope, there are not many characters who would just have up and say there waiting to die instead of fighting their best to get out of there like Jing did. In addition, I don't see Jing choosing to sleep for 37 years as an act of love. Rather it's an act of avoidance. One that he sustained for 37 years. So, yes cowardly is how I would describe this man.
That said, I don't really view TSJ falling into a coma (with his soul seeking death) as an action that make TSJ a "spineless coward". Abandoning responsibilities I can sort of see..
But "abandoning" those relatively minor responsibilities (compared to the much greater responsibility of a clan leader or an emperor, for example) because XY died doesn't seem all that terrible to me.
He is a coward because instead of fighting for survival he simply gave up. He is a coward because he had glommed onto XY to validated his existence instead of dealing with his experience and heal, and now that he think his life preserver is gone He can't cope so chooses to die with jer. This isn't an act of love, this is a cowardly act of avoidance.
He has an elderly grandmother who holding up the family - the clan and family that he was trained from birth to take over - he knew his brother was putting the clan into an undesirable position etc. Perhaps Jing's values over being a responsible person are very different from mine. Not to mention my issues with Jing choosing to sleep for 37 years are numerous - it's about what it says about his character as a whole - his lack of development etc. Again, my evaluation of Jing doesn't come from any single incident but from the entirety of the novel. Jing's lack of responsibility and selfishness was again shown at the end - so yes, it's just reinforced to me that this character is selfish and irresponsible at his core.
As to your question about the other character choosing to die. A-Heng longed to die but didn't because she remembered her responsibility towards XY. This is different to what Jing did. Personally, CX's mother choosing to die with his father and effectively abandoning her young child is to me, an incredibly irresponsible, selfish and cowardly act. Since we already see this particular thing differently, I won't explain further how the other circumstances are different to Jing's situation. If something that obvious needs to be explained, then it's probably a case of very different views and there's no point to it.
What I will say is that Jing chose to sleep for 37 years. That's 37 years of him choosing to hide, abandoning his responsibilities. You would think that at some point during those 37 years, that man would wise up or man up, but nope. He remained a coward for all 37 years. And again, my opinion of this character's cowardliness isn't just from a single incident.
The bar is in hell with this character. It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't feel as if I'm expected to like him. If I have to make excuses over and over again to swallow your actions, then it's a sign that I truly find your character questionable and don't like you. So, no I don't like this character. YMObviouslyV.
In WXL’s view, she understood how important Shang Nong army to XL no matter who he loved. WXL knew that XL attached his fate to his adoptive father and Sheng Nong army. Thus, she knew he would die with the army one day and left her alone and she didn’t choose to rely on him. She got some drops of honey from XL, however she didn’t want to get hurt again
At that point in time, WXL knew very little about XL, much less his personal life. She had no idea why XL was even working with the Resistance Army and had never met Hong Jiang. Basically, she had seen him at work, and never in a personal relationship, so she had no idea how he would react with a lover.
As usual, I disagree that XL had decided to die with the Resistance Army at that point, so I don't think WXL would think he was doomed. The big roadblock in their relationship at that point was that he was her family's enemy and her own issues ... and the Dragonbone Prison promise.
XY never gave XL a chance, in part because Jing made sure to knock him out of the running, with the Promise and his confession telling XY everything she wanted to hear.
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