Episode 15 feedback from an autistic + relationship commentary

1. Young Woo feels close to Attorney Jung

If you're good to other people, they will respect and value you. Attorney Jung Myung Seok treated Young Woo fairly, was patient, broadened his view, and was not shy to correct and make the effort to explain things in a way Young Woo will understand. Remember when I said we do remember people who are good to us and we value you in a way you'll never know? Same thing.

Like to her friend Choi Soo Yeon, she was good to her so she remembers her and value her, and even described in a very beautiful way what Soo Yeon is for her.

Again, just because we do not show/express it does not mean we do not pay attention or do not appreciate what you do for us. We are generally just bad at expressing things, and we just don't find a reason why we should (unless you ask us).


2. Scene: Client meeting
Young Woo: The shock of moving from one space to another is very overwhelming for me. If I count to three and take a deep breath before going in, it lessens the shock a bit.

That was a very good way of explaining it. I can not even explain it myself. It just is. You feel it. Check my earlier feedback and my interview with Sports Seoul, I can't explain it properly. LOL. Young Woo nailed it!

Client: That happens to me sometimes too. It's uncomfortable when the space I'm in suddenly changes.
Client: She's quite brave.

Believe it or not, many in the programmers/developers (or whatever you want to call them today), are in the autism spectrum … undetected or chose not to make it "official" (i.e. in the records) or chose not to disclose it.

Client: I don't want other people to think I'm weird, so I pretend that I'm not uncomfortable even when I am.

That's masking. And a person masks more often than not because of social discrimination, prejudice, stigma, stereotype, and everything else. In this character's situation, he doesn't want people to think he's "weird". He was being forced by society to mask, to hide how uncomfortable he is, just to look "normal" in the eyes of the everyone.

We do not know if he is autistic too. Even if he is not, he can be a great ally of the autistic community because he experienced and experiences similar things.

Client (CEO): Is something like that funny to you right now? Does it make you laugh? Nothing's changed since we were in school. I'm always the one who takes things seriously.

He was not laughing nor did he find it funny. He knew he do things other people find "weird". For him to pretend (i.e. mask) meant people did call him "weird" before. Seeing someone like Young Woo who experiences something similar made him glad and more comfortable in that room. He was expressing that elation. And because he felt comfortable "ooh, I'm no longer the only one 'weird' here", he unconsciously unmasked himself.

Remember when he said to Young Woo she's brave? He was referring to Young Woo not hiding her "weirdness".

As is common, a non-autistic misunderstood him and attacked him. Like what I experienced personally some years ago, an ableist HR once degraded me as a person because I started to smile. When I told this ableist HR manager it is my coping mechanism, she said all the nasty things and made it look I'm the Devil himself. I cried after that, there at the office. I will never work for that company until they terminate people like her.


3. Not telling your ex why you broke up with them is rude.

But when you check other dramas (Korean or not), or even in relationship groups, it is common to see comments about how it is fine, it is normal, and highly advised and praised. Is it rude when autistics do it but is not rude when non-autistics leave their partners without saying anything? Because I am autistic and my ex-girlfriend is non-autistic, it was fine for her to leave me hanging? But when we autistics do it, it is rude?

Of course there are various reasons and things to consider. So let's use a different example.

If an autistic is talking a lot, or say things at face value, it is annoying and rude. But when non-autistics do it, it is "for your own good" and/or "you deserve it".

This is one of the common reason why many autistics are not disclosing they are autistic; or not bothering to have an "official" (meaning recorded) diagnosis. When one is perceived as "normal", people treat the person well. But once that person is "different", people start to act like s/he is less than human or an E.T. from some other planet who shouldn't be on planet Earth.

Even people with other conditions experiences the same thing. If you appear "normal", you are treated and respected as a person, as a human being. But once you are "different", if there is no law against killing a person, society would more likely have killed everyone with a condition. To borrow US V.P. Al Gore's words, it is "An Inconvenient Truth".

If society will not face this "Inconvenient Truth" then people with conditions will always be treated less than human. If you do not have a condition like the rest of us, YOU are part of the solution that can change our society for the better.


4. Will find a way not to lie or say something we do not want to say.

We will find ways not to tell a lie or say something we do not want to say. Young Woo did and saw lunch was almost over so she stalled and ding!


5. Young Woo literally lowered herself.

Again, literalism. Not all autistics react similarly, especially with adults. Like me, I've learned a lot of phrases and idioms so I'm familiar with their usage already. Other autistics are better than me, like those who actually make an effort in increasing their vocabulary (me, I rely on whatever materials I read: current events, fiction, and non-fiction; as well as conversations).


6. You have colleagues, talk to them.

Yes. If you know someone who is autistic, try to remind them. We tend to do things on our own. If an autistic responded in a way you find rude, don't take it personally. Again, literalism. what comes out of our mouth is most of the time just that. Nothing to read between the lines. No emotions hidden in it. It just is. I am not saying you should not 'correct' if it was something rude rude (especially in your culture), just don't take it personally. It's one thing to 'correct' without taking it personally; it is totally another to take it personally.


7. Accuracy

Judge: It would be more accurate to say 80 percent of the entire country.
Judge: Be mindful of your pronunciation.

Both exactly what Young Woo said.

Accuracy. This is specially important in legal situations. The words used, phrases, and the way sentences and paragraphs are arranged, and yes, even pronunciation, can change everything.

This is the common pitfall with people signing contracts. Even though they read the contract, they miss these little details because for them it is "not important". Like Attorney Jang Seung Jun, these things are not important for him. What happened? He almost botched his case. Young Woo, an autistic woman Jang Seung Jun hates, was the one who saved his case in the end. Imagine if he listened to Young Woo in the first place?

Client: That's like asking, 'If the front door was locked, would a thief still have been able to steal from inside the house?'

Some autistics think this way. I do think and talk this way. Like echolalia, people find it rude too. But you see, it's one way to understand things better. It's how you analyze things.


8. Press mob scene
Min Woo: Attorney Jang! Joon Ho!
Young Woo: That's so petty. That's betrayal.

If I understood this scene correctly, Young Woo was reacting to both Attorney Jang (he's getting back at her) and Joon Ho (he left because he was told to, when before he would fight).


9. Joon Ho's another attempt to talk to Young Woo

Young Woo: I'm not sure if someone who can make you happy. I think I'm just someone you have to take care of.
Joon Ho: I'm happy just being with you. For me to be happy, I have to be with you.
Young Woo: But haven't you ever felt lonely when you were with me?
Joon Ho can not answer.
Young Woo: All of my thoughts tend to center around me so I make people close to me lonely.
Young Woo: I don't know when or why I do that; and I don't know what I can do to stop it.
Young Woo: I like you. But I'm afraid that I'll make you lonely.
Joon Ho doesn't know what to say to it.

I think everything that has to be said about this has been said since relationship was brought up in the first episodes, and after the first trolls who are anti-PWD started leaving a mess here in MDL.

But I can't stop myself. LOL.

NOTE: This is NOT an attack on Joon Ho. Some in the MDL comments assumed that people are attacking Joon Ho.

Joon Ho: I'm happy just being with you. For me to be happy, I have to be with you.

Mistake. Even in a non-autistic relationship, you do not enter into a relationship just because "I'm happy just being with you". A romantic relationship is both complex and complicated. Being happy alone won't make it work.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong here women, is not that a very unsatisfactory reason to have a relationship with you? Is not his reason borders on making you simply an object and not a person? Is there no danger, or would you not think, he would leave you one day once he is no longer happy?

I'm a guy, an autistic guy at that, and if a girl tells me that … I definitely would run away fast. From my perspective, there is also danger the person would start being possessive, and possessive people are scary and dangerous in relationships.

How about you, women? If a guy tells you that's all and everything, how do you process it? What are the thoughts that come into your mind as you try to figure out what it meant to him and to you ?

Young Woo: But haven't you ever felt lonely when you were with me?
Joon Ho can not answer.

Joon Ho always had something to say but he failed at this moment. It shows that Young Woo is opening what Joon Ho is bottling down inside. Joon Ho may not be aware of it, but it is there, and Young Woo opened it up and Joon Ho started to realize it.

Young Woo: All of my thoughts tend to center around me so I make people close to me lonely.
Young Woo: I don't know when or why I do that; and I don't know what I can do to stop it.
Young Woo: I like you. But I'm afraid that I'll make you lonely.
Joon Ho doesn't know what to say to it.

Once again, he doesn't know what to say. For sure he played in his mind everything he wants to say to Young Woo. But right at this moment, it's all gone after hearing Young Woo's explanation. What happened? Joon Ho started to think like Young Woo. Joon Ho started to place himself in her shoes and saw the world through her eyes for the first time. Before that, he was only understanding her based on, possibly, what he read online, in books, and observation. But this time, he is seeing the world through her eyes.

Apparently, Joon Ho was fixated on getting back with her instead of spending his time analyzing what happened. He also dismissed the possibility that Young Woo heard what his sister said. What his sister said is valid, there is no question about it--it is her prejudice that is wrong but for Joon Ho it doesn't matter, it does for Young Woo. If they continued their relationship, and it turns out for Joon Ho it is only all about his happiness, he might change his opinion or view later once reality hits.

Young Woo: I'm not sure if someone who can make you happy. I think I'm just someone you have to take care of.

I said it too but there you go, she said it herself. It is true to life. It is not fiction. Relationships are like that. As painful as it may be. More so when one has a condition and there are prejudices running around.

The ball is in Joon Ho's court. He should take this time to look into himself and answer the questions and concerns of Young Woo. If he takes this against his sister, sorry but that is finding an excuse to run away instead of facing head on the problem. Hopefully he won't do that. Hopefully he will find the answer to Young Woo's questions and concerns.

Is their relationship going to end up as "someone you have to take care of"? If that becomes the reality, is he ready for it? Is he willing to see through what they started? Or, is there a chance for him to start giving up and file a divorce once reality hits?

Oh sure, maybe he won't get a divorce but their relationship is probably about fighting instead of happiness. Or, he'll end up seeing himself as the caretaker who sacrificed a lot for her making Young Woo appear not doing anything when, as Young Woo already said before, she also made sacrifices for him. But you know, blame the autistic, because it is easier to accept a relationship failed because someone has a condition. (Again, that's a true to life: blame the people with conditions and be done with it.)

Can he truly say he had never feel lonely when he was with her?

REALIZATION HITS

You know what! I just realized something. As I've shared before two years ago my 15-year relationship ended. I never realized this until now, thanks to Young Woo.

My ex-girlfriend loves to travel with her friends and office mates, without me. More often than not, I'm the last one to know she went out of town with her friends. But when we're together, it's just the two of us. If we do meet with other people, be it people I know or people she know, she always looked after me, kept asking me if I'm okay, and so on and so forth.

Let's go back to what Young Woo said, "But haven't you ever felt lonely when you were with me?" She also said, "All of my thoughts tend to center around me so I make people close to me lonely." She also added, "I don't know when or why I do that; and I don't know what I can do to stop it."

That was it! I just realized it now. My ex-girlfriend felt lonely when she was with me. And she often ended up worrying about me instead of having fun. Eventually, she gave up. (It is no one's fault at the same time it is also both our fault.)

This just proves that Young Woo's analysis of their relationship is very valid and should not be dismissed. It also proves why their break up, at this point, is important. If they ended up like me and my ex-girlfriend, well, … it's game over. At least this way, there is still a chance for them to get back together.

Again, the ball is in Joon Ho's court. Is he going to analyze their situation properly? Will he able to answer the questions and concerns of Young Woo truthfully to himself? If he decides that he's ready regardless if he ends up taking care of her, even if he ends up lonely, can he honestly tell himself he will see through it to the end no matter what?

Because if not. This is a very good chance for him to call it quits. They can still be friends at this point, though a little awkward at first.

Think about it.

Lastly, thank you Young Woo for asking those questions. I finally understood one mystery of my failed 15-year relationship.

Again, I do not speak for the autistic community. I am only trying to explain things, mainly coming from my own experience, and the experience of other autistics who shared their stories and complaints.

No two autistics are the same; and autism is four-dimensional.

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Thank you for a wonderful analysis. I always enjoyed reading your thoughts/versions of every episodes. And you write very well.

Having a relationship takes a lot of work, dedication and investment. I am not autistic but I had my share of failed relationship. I can imagine it will be more difficult if someone has a condition. 

I'm so "relieved" that Jun Ho didnot have an immediate answer to YW questions. 

Despite the different built we have as human, there are some forms of shared experiences that may resonate from one person to another. So looking forward to finale!

 limepunchmonday:

I'm so "relieved" that Jun Ho didnot have an immediate answer to YW questions. 

Despite the different built we have as human, there are some forms of shared experiences that may resonate from one person to another. So looking forward to finale!

Yep!

Hoping for the positive.

 Aramintai:

Just go through your feedbacks and see how many times you used "we"

Again you have to be specific because there is context involved. Secondly, how you understood something may be different from how I understood it.

So again, if you are going to correct someone after, in this case, 15 episodes, be specific. You should've said something earlier so I can adjust, or maybe you did and I missed it, in that case I apologize.

 Aramintai:

And the way you compose sentences in general sounds very categorical/authoritative as if you're stating a universal fact.

Same as above.

 Aramintai:

And I recall you mentioning yourself having a hard time unerstanding neurotypical people, just like they have trouble understanding people on the spectrum. So why they behave this or that way are just an assumptions coming from you, they should not be stated as fact.

Can I use "we" in the next sentence?

We generally do not understand neurotypical people.

However, it does not mean my experiences, as well as those I used as an example, are "less valid" and were only "my" "assumptions".

I also never forced you, or anyone, to believe whatever I said or is saying or will say. It is your duty, as a free and thinking person, to do your own due diligence.

As an example someone said, "I'll think about it" does not mean "no" and they're NT, and I said to please share it in the links I shared so everyone else can benefit from that information because "we" in the community were told it means "no". A new input will help in traversing the complexity of words and phrases.

1. Context
2. You should've said something earlier so I can adjust (unless I missed it, if so I apologize)
3. And below

 IM YourOnlyOne:

Again, I do not speak for the autistic community. I am only trying to explain things, mainly coming from my own experience, and the experience of other autistics who shared their stories and complaints.

No two autistics are the same; and autism is four-dimensional.

In any case, this is my last reply on this matter you raised. Thank you very much for your input. I'll pay more attention next time. If it sounded badly to you, or anyone else, I apologize. It was never my intention.

 Muttery Monkey:

I'd run away, too. But not for the reasons that you describe. I want to be with a person that is happy with themselves and by themselves. I don't want to be someone's source of happiness. Maybe I am weak, but being responsible for someone's happiness is just too much for me.

Ahh! That is a very good point!

 Muttery Monkey:

They go out of their way to please me, because their primary goal is being with me, even if it means that they can't be true to themselves. This in turn then causes me to edit myself to please them, often to the point that I lose myself.

I see what you mean. It's enlightening, I will take that into consideration if it happens to me. Although true on changing oneself to please our partner that may lead to losing ourselves. But yeah, I'll remember this.

 Muttery Monkey:

I wish for everyone to love themselves first and be happy with themselves first. If someone is not happy on their own, it's a huge pressure for their partner (and maybe an impossible task) to make them happy.

Agreed. It starts with ourselves. That way I see it, how can we say to another we love them or we care for them or we're happy, if we don't love ourselves, we don't care of our own body/health, and we're not happy. Indeed, there is pressure on their partner.

Above comment, you say this and then realize that when autistic people unmask in public…look at the way we are treated. Discrimination against us is normalized especially with the use of the word r*t*rd*d. I even have to practice masking to be accepted (I have practiced eye contact even though it drains my energy, my posture + walking, my speech, scripting conversations, etc.)…and get scared to tell people I’m autistic. 

I have been reading every single   of your posts about EAW. And I love how detailed you are. You talk about even the smallest things in such details and honestly I feel  it made me understand people on the ASD spectrum better. I am not sure if "understand" is the right word here. But I am not that good at doing these types of things. So sorry if I say something wrong or weird. As a neurotypical who haven't meet many autistic people, but still somehow was able to see so much discrmination against people on the ASD spectrum, it feels somehow upsetting to know someone's views who went through this type of prejudice, and discriminations. The place where I come from isn't that nice to autistic people and I don't think I've ever got to know about autistic people through an autistic person's lenses, so its both knowlegable and allowed me have a better understanding and new perception about people on the ASD spectrum, instead of those assumptions neurotypicals usually have. So I wanted to thank you for that. I am going to miss your posts:)