danny_ang:Yan Zi Jing look like an excellent strategeist. Chui Shi Jiu also excellent rival
The plot armor for both leads is very thick. CSJ is a well written rival but she isn't that powerful bc her family doesn't fully support her so she doesn't have as many resources as YZJ. And the other villains are just so dumb they more or less incriminate themselves. In the latest arc, they actually send an annual 10 pearl tribute to the forger they got to steal and forge a tribute statue meant for the emperor! With pearls that are your pearl farm is renown for no less!!! I was aghast! That is like committing a crime, writing "I did it" and signing your full name, address, email and cellphone underneath.
danny_ang:My apologize for asking out of topic question. This is the closest discussion group i can found in here to discuss about detailed things of the plot.
I'm just reached episode 10, it revolved around auction of Yan's treasure after Yan Zi Jing conviction of murder. The event auctioning valuable stuff in closed caskets. My question is,
1. When the government confiscate Yan's treasure on the ship, why the government didn't check what is in the caskets?
2. Why they didn't cross check treasures in the casket with inventory list? since it a merchant group, there will be inventory list of trading stuff and stock in the storage.
Why the government just blindly took the casket without checking?
3. About murder case of accountant Wei Yan. Who is died actually? How Wei Yan faked her own dead when there are many peoples on the shore and some government officials check her presumed her dead body?
The key for understanding the auction is Mr Shinawei, a seller of a box of "Nanyang" pearls to Cui Shiju, but... those pearls were not from Nanyang, they were Hepu pearls, fact that Duanwu, an experienced pearl diver, noticed and deduced Shinawei must have been in collusion with Yan ZJ, because only Yan ZJ was in possession of Hepu pearls (having invested considerable resources & efforts to obtain them along the way). Hepu pearls are from Cui pearl farm, those which were destined to become imperial tribute and Cuis cut for themeselves (underreporting the amount dived out), i.e. for their illegal trade. Shinawei delays the delivery of the main stock (seastorm as an excuse), but she'll have them "in two months" (ie., after the deadline to deliver them as tribute), and already drilled (i.e. useless for the purpose of presenting them as tributes).
Cuis do not know Shinawei's pearls are Yan ZJ's pearls and all these facts force them to make "whatever it takes" move in order to obtain YZJ pearls: they sell everything they have in Guangzhou to participate in the auction, believing they must be in sealed caskets. So, the answers on your questions are:
1. Zhang JR knows what is in those caskets, of course he've checked and registered everything they've contained but he is still bound to obtain the highest price, that's why he proposed a blind auction.
2. It's irrelevant, Zhang JR is aware YZJ was cornering Cuis, he is not after YZJ but after Cuis and Xu officer, because he is prince Ying's party while Cuis and Xu are in prince Tan's party, He doesn't know in detail how is YZJ's scheme but knows perfectly YZJ uses his official status to deal with them, so he is just playing his part. He checked what's inside the caskets and sell them closed
3. We don't know who is the dead person, it isn't shown bc it's probably irrelevant as well. We can assume they've found any dead person (we've never seen the face of the dead) and put Ms Wei's target on her waist. We were sufficiently hinted Ms Wei cooperated with YZJ from the start. He told Duanwu he knew Wei was bribed by Cui SJ the night before Duanwu went (and failed) to purchase the pearls from Shinawei. When Wei was tied with ropes and Duanwu tried to defend her, Wei was shaking her head. It was all an act, YZJ wanted to be accused of murder as his properties needed to be sold in a public auction. Convoys' valuable things were safe in a secret chamber and, after being found non-guilty, he would just accept the price paid by Cuis for invaluable things.
I've liked a lot these whole scheme.
AleksandraSucur:1. Zhang JR knows what is in those caskets, of course he've checked and registered everything they've contained but he is still bound to obtain the highest price, that's why he proposed a blind auction.
2. It's irrelevant, Zhang JR is aware YZJ was cornering Cuis, he is not after YZJ but after Cuis and Xu officer, because he is prince Ying's party while Cuis and Xu are in prince Tan's party, He doesn't know in detail how is YZJ's scheme but knows perfectly YZJ uses his official status to deal with them, so he is just playing his part. He checked what's inside the caskets and sell them closed
3. We don't know who is the dead person, it isn't shown bc it's probably irrelevant as well.
1. How can you assume Zhang Jin Ran know what is in the casket and registered everything? Zhang Jin Ran and everybody else probably just assume what is in the caskets.
2. It's relevant. In auction, the bidder demand to know what items will be in the auction. Government presented by Zhang Jin Ran declared it as blind auction in D-Day when the event is held. Before auction is held, there should be a declaration of stuff will be auctioned.
Another things is, since the casket will be stored in government facility (it never tell or shown how many days), the casket and what is inside it will be the responsibility of government. Assuming Yan Zi Jing proven innocent from murder case, and he reclaim the caskets. If they didn't cross check it with Yan's list and there is missing item, Yan's Merchant Convoy can sue the government for missing item(s).
Zhang Jin Ran actually investigate about pearl tribute of Cui's, but based on your explanation it's like Zhang Jin Ran suddenly cooperate with Yan Zi Jing to corner Cui.
3. The question still remain. Who is dead actually? Since there are many peoples on the shore and some police or government check the presumed dead body.
3a. Are those people can't tell a dead body with someone pretend dead?
Its relevant if there is actual murder victim, whoever it is. Since the witness at night probably didn't see the victim's face, he just see the killer and recognize the killer. The things that irrelevant is accountant Wei Yan present at the auction.
3b. Since they never declare who is the dead body is, why Wei Yan present at auction can prove Yan Zi Jing is innocent from murder case?
If there is actual dead body, there can be another murder case, and the witness at night probably mistakenly accuse Yan Ji Zing.
Tbh it easier for Yan Ji Zing to throw accountant Wei Yan off the ship that night. If Zhang Jin Ran presence on the ship aren't strong enough to count as witness, Yan Ji Zing just need to scheme for mass people to witness him throw somebody off the ship. Those mass people don't have to be on the ship, they can be outside near the ship.
Thank you for your explanation about the Yan Zi Jing scenario, which i already understand. Yes i like Yan Zi Jing scheme, all his move since Hepu to sweep pearls on the market lead to the auction is a really well scheme to push Cuis make desperate attempt, but many detailed things bothering me.
The auction is held to raise money for the victims (murder victims), if there is no victim, or even no murder case, the auction probably declared illegal later. Sure, Cuis transaction will still to be processed at that time since the father have made a sign of purchase. But Cui family can sue the government later, and probably sue to cancel the transaction or return money that they've been paid for the auction.
Not to mention the fire arrows at the pearl farms. Okay the arrow probably burned down, but how about the tip of the arrows? It made of metal?
Okay let say Yan Zi Jing use wooden material as the tip of his arrows, but how come nobody witnessing those mass fire arrows flying in the sky at night?
The grand scheme of Yan Zi Jing itself very interisting, but the details is lazy writing.
danny_ang:How can you assume Zhang Jin Ran know what is in the casket and registered everything? Zhang Jin Ran and everybody else probably just assume what is in the caskets.
I am 100pct sure ZJR didn't inventory the goods. They were sealed in front of everyone and that is the point of the official seal. They can't be broken and were not broken until after the auction.
I also think that ZJR is supposed to be objective. That is the whole point of his character. Envoy Xu and he are both disciples of the same master. If Envoy Xu goes down he disgraces their master. Nonetheless he is tasked by Prince Ying to investigate and he will do so in an impartial manner. That is also YZJ's assessment of his character. But as you point out, the writing is lazy so at this point, in order to force the plot along, ZRJ acts as if he is obviously siding with YZJ. That should not be the case. He is just a truth seeker.
1. Now I've rewatched the confiscation scene, and actually he (ZJR) could have sealed the caskets after they were filled with any kind of goods "as preventive measure" (he used this expression while talking with Xu) without an inventory. But now I must ask: how could he have not seen what kind of goods were put in those caskets? So, he simply knows, he knows the things are not valuable.
Later, he is the first to propose a blind auction. I think you and PeachBlossom see his character as too pure and impartial. He is a fine gentleman, true, but he has his own agenda, it is clear from the conversation he had with YZJ on the boat (ep 8), when he asks him why he's so eager to eliminate Cuis and YZJ asks him in return why he investigates the pearl matter "are you not in this in order to gain more power?". And it's true, his investigation aims to gain credits as he can take the post offered by prince Ying with merits. They are "on the same boat" (both literally and symbolically), when he asked YZJ to accept him on the boat, he told him "the cunning rabbit is not dead yet, don't drop a good bow too soon", meaning he is a bow, a tool YZJ can use to eliminate "a cunning rabbit". Besides, ZJR already knows Xu is in collusion with Cuis (he lured Xu to send killers to murder him as to confirm his suspicion)
2. not knowing what caskets contain is a deterrent for all other bidders (and they are all "insiders") to take part. Even Cui SJ is reluctant, she tries to warn her father YZJ is cunning, it isn't easy to deal with his stuff... "The responsibility of government" in case smth is missing... well, when arrested, YZJ clearly said ZJR has his full trust in dealing with the Convoy's goods. Yes, YZJ and ZJR indeed have this strange sort of cooperation, because they would never admit it, but it is a cooperation.
3. The witness of the murder-act reported it to the local official, so they went to search an area and found a dead body with Ms Wei's token on the shore, so they reasonably assumed it was Ms Wei. How YZJ got that body is not known, it's irrelevant for the plot and if that person was murdered, it is an another investigation case which has nothing to do with YZJ. If they ask about the token, Ms Wei can always reply she lost it before. But most probably YZJ used someone who died for other reasons, who wasn't murdered at all. They have just found the body when they've seized YZJ, no obductions were made.
I understand you, details bother me, too. Eg., I am bothered with the shape of gems (YZJ showed to Duanwu) which do not exist in nature. In particular, there are no spheric emeralds, they are crystal beryls formed in shist matrix (I've seen how they are mined in Austrian Habachtal, National Park of Hohe Tauern), stone quarry presented as a mine - every time I see this representation I think "the authors watched too many C-dramas", although I've seen a few dramas where quarries were quarries, in the open (in all of them they served as penal colonies). If they needed a mine, they could have represented it as a mine of gold or gems (it's within their jewlery business after all) and yesterday, after reading a long discussion post of Frost Edelweiss and discovering that Wuling mountain was exploited in Tang for its inkstone, why not just make it Duān Inkstone mine which indeed existed and was famous or a gold mine which indeed existed in Zhàoqìng-Duānzhōu?
But I won't call it "a lazy writing", they've just missed opportunities to enrich the story with truthful hystorical facts and educational value. The plot is already rich and thick, who knows how many scenes were deleted for reasons of time...During the confiscation, we were also distracted by Duanwu's subplot of revenging her little brother, but this subplot was more important than the details of confiscation and false murder
PeachBlossomGoddess:It’s cool we can just agree to disagree disagree but that is just not my impression of the character. It’s always interesting to read others impressions of a drama it’s interesting how they can differ. I do think a well written drama however will not give rise to such polar opposite impressions.
I disagree we disagree :) that much in our impressions of ZJR character, certainly they are not "polar opposites". Imo, you've assessed him correctly: he is righteous and "supposed to be objective" but he is not impartial, he is prince Ying's party, that makes him partial by default and you know it, too. In your opening comment, you've wrote:
"He (YZJ) is inciting Zhang Jinran who is Prince Ying's sworn brother to investigate the Cui family and take them down ".
I also agree with you he is a truth-seeker, he is investigating a complicated tribute-evasion matter, so it's perfectly normal he investigates the truth and makes objective assessments of the situation and people involved. But how he deals with the truth is up to him. He is wary of YZJ because he knows YZJ wants to take Cuis down but doesn't know the reason why YZJ wants to take them down. Knowing the truth YZJ uses him, or better, guide him (providing hints and pieces of evidence) to deal with Cuis, what's his reaction, did he opposed or refused this "guidance" because he doesn't know YZJ's motives? ZJR is not an opportunist, but he covertly accepted to be YZJ's "bow" as he said himself. Ofc he can't make this "cooperation" overt, he is an upright official who knows the rules but he isn't naive or a fool.
Maybe, for some viewers, this "partiality" is not sufficiently emphasised in the storyline, I don't know, for me it was sufficient to see he was exchanging letters with prince Ying and that he repeatedly accepted to be "guided" by YZJ in his investigation. There are holes and open points in the drama, ofc but we can't complain for the lack of plot here, there's smth going on all the time, with twists and turns, entangling subplots, only in today's eps we've had some (although sad) relax when Duanwuwas remembering people, that took half of an ep.
I prefer plots with many things going on than the absence of action and dragging...
AleksandraSucur:"He (YZJ) is inciting Zhang Jinran who is Prince Ying's sworn brother to investigate the Cui family and take them down ".
I don't think just because ZJR is in Prince Ying's camp means he is partial to the point of being corruptible. Indeed the latest episode suggests if anything, ZJR is really much more the emperor's man than he is Prince Ying's man. If there is nothing to find, ZJR won't just make it up, he is not that kind of guy. He is investigating bc he thinks the Cuis are corrupt but he won't help YZJ frame or entrap them, which would be exactly what he would have been doing if he indeed knew the boxes were empty. That makes a huge difference and if you mean he knowingly colluded with YZJ to impoverish them, we couldn'd disagree more. YZJ is depending on him to be impartial; to be someone who objectively finds the Cuis guilty and who objectively exonerates his family. For me, the plot is not the worst but it is underwhelming and dull. It reeks of the same lazy writing I have seen in way too many dramas including Destined etc. But I am fine with it bc this is what I expect of all idol romance dramas that are long on romance short on plot. I am all good to enjoy it for what it is and let all the holes slide. My comments are only in response to @danny_ang's questions pointing out the same issues I also noticed. It doesn't make it a bad drama, it's actually quite good for what it is.
PeachBlossomGoddess:it is totally the same lazy writing I have seen in way too many dramas
This is the only thing we can agree I disagree with you.
Because, I agree with everything you've said about ZJR. He is not in Prince Ying's camp to the point of being corruptible. He isn't Ying's blind follower. As for Cuis, he strongly suspects they've killed the Yans (he still doesn't know JZY is the descendant of that family) taking over their properties for illegal purposes and - I hope you are updated with today's eps, I know you hate spoilers but today's twist filled one important open issue - what he really investigates is that massacre. The reason why he investigates this thing is distant from JZY's reasons, JZY (who deeply distrusts politics, when ZJR came to him with sophisticated words to get on the boat, he just said: "cut the crap, tell me what you want") wants to revenge his family, while upright ZJR doesn't only want to repair the injustice, but as knowledgeable person, doesn't want The Silk Road trade to be interrupted or ruled by some bandits and their political backers. Therefore, you are right he would not frame anybody, and although he doesn't know the details of the JZY's scheming, he goes along with it. It isn't a great plot in your opinion, but I think you're wrong.
You know I'm not after idol dramas, I'm a political scientist, history, linguistics and literature lover, I've dropped Destined and so many other dramas, because of my personal preferences and I can even agree with what danny_ang pointed out that this drama gave too much space to Zhao Lusi, I'm definitely not interested in her acting skills, all actresses should and do display those skills when they are asked for. All I ask from a drama is an engaging plot, and this one (till this point) satisfies me, I truly do not care who are the performers. Why is so?
We don't see princesses, the main character is a pearl diver (!=). an underdog who doesn't entangle with powerful. The story setting is a real historical setting, when Tang defeated two Göktürk khaganates and still didn't subcontracted their enormous land to Uyghurs. To this point, the drama fairly deals with issues that are within my interests and preferences, feudal relations included
Since I already watched more than a dozen period dramas just this year that are not about princesses, that novelty has long since worn off. And she still cries all the time she’s just not a crying princess anymore but it’s still enough crying it’s giving me PTSD from TLB. But I do like Tang dynasty stories and I am far more interested in CSJ and I am sticking around to find out what happens to her. The character is so much more interesting and the acting and especially her lines are phenomenal.
I just reached episodes 20, and there will be more question. The showmaker know the target audiences for this show, they will not write it deeper on plot. However this is still good show, definetly not among the bad. While im watching it, i google some reference based on history they mentioned.
If there is another version of this show that emphasis more on political turbulence. Another show with understandable characters motives, deeper research and plot writing. I will definetely watch it.
I agree it’s not a bad drama at all and I don’t have high expectations on plot for this genre in general. The director insisted that this would be different from other idol dramas but I thought to myself yeah right! so I am not surprised or disappointed. There is a long article I think on Netease by the way debunking that entire auction arc that points out how ridiculous the loopholes are and asking how YZJ didn’t get charged with a crime for what he did.
I think if you are looking for something more substantive with better plot then for this year anyway that would be Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty 2. It was written by a well respected historian. Heroes 2024 is not Tang dynasty but it was also historically quite relevant and though it had some flaws too, overall the plot hangs together well. I also think the coming soon Litchi Road and Qingming Festival have potential and they should be Tang and Song dynasty. You can usually tell from the directing and writing team what you will get and those two look quite promising.
PeachBlossomGoddess:And she still cries all the time she’s just not a crying princess anymore but it’s still enough crying it’s giving me PTSD
latest eps and previews for the next prove you two were right, I've formed high expectations too early, I've expected more of political intrigue, but the show turned towards usual clichè, nonsensical misunderstanding, beauty contests etc., bleah. As danny_ang said, they are targeting idol dramas audience. Agree with you about CSJ, I'm also curious what will happen to her, she is interesting and the actress is convincing in performing the character.
Btw, what is TLB, I must have missed that one...
AleksandraSucur:latest eps and previews for the next prove you two were right, I've formed high expectations too early, I've expected more of political intrigue, but the show turned towards usual clichè, nonsensical misunderstanding, beauty contests etc., bleah. As danny_ang said, they are targeting idol dramas audience. Agree with you about CSJ, I'm also curious what will happen to her, she is interesting and the actress is convincing in performing the character.
Btw, what is TLB, I must have missed that one...
I thought there were some holes I was trying to ignore but I didn't really expect it to embrace that many cliches... and I haven't even seen the beauty contest but yikes! I just didn't have much faith in the directing and writing team bc they are behind some dramas I really disliked. Pearl Girl is is still by far this director's best drama to date. He has made some dreadful stuff.
The Long Ballad - it was Zhao Lusi and Liu Yuning's first collaboration it is also set in Tang dynasty and I suspect around the same period even. They were the second couple but many people liked them better than the main couple (Wu Lei and Dilraba). Lusi played a princess that grew a lot but she started out crying all the time omg I still cringe even to think of it now.
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