I was also hesitating at first. But saw some good reviews on twitter and other platforms. So I watched this whole…
this commentator might as well say the opposite: that people don't like drama because they don't like LMH. I feel like I see drama when I read this, LOL! We're never done laughing here. ^^
"the best kind of teacher is one who does not spoon-feed but gives the students enough knowledge and drive to find the solution by themselves"
Well, that's also one of the things that's done wrong, the inability to produce that effect! The whole system of clues is messed up, no focus at the right time, all upside down. The spectator never gets the benefit of his discoveries nor have proof afterward. The great authors of cinema are talented enough to make the truth arrive in the spectator's mind like a flash of light! This is difficult to do, and often, for it to work, it is limited to a reasonable number of occurrences.
Apart from that you're wrong, well, to say that, we should already know what this famous spoon means. But there are other ways of cognitive assimilation. Repetition and redundancy, for example. Progressive practice, etc. And above all, the clarity of the teacher in his explanations and examples during the class! Or the way he makes his lecture exciting, and makes the students want to know more. (another point on which the drama fails splendidly)
The famous spoon !!! They're all passing it back and forth without even cleaning it ! I guess Stanley Kubrick is a guy who gives me the little spoon too ? When an author is talented, he makes people love his work, even when he doesn't use this famous spoon that much. And even authors who use the spoon a bit more, like Christopher Nolan, have surprises in store for them to thinking.
I didn't answer because I have to leave this topic at some point, and I've already learned everything there is to learn from TKEM about the mistakes not to make in a script. Basically anything that prevents the viewer from being immersed, diminishes emotion, obscures clarity, artificially complicates, hides information without justification related to the plot or a real mind-blowing effect, or nullifies belief in the fantastic principle of the story for lack of evidence. And many other things about all the precise processes leading to this kind of fiasco, too many characters, their lack of usefulness, the excessive splitting of scenes and storyline, the failed elipses, the wrong indication of the context, and so on. I already knew this intuitively, but it's still spectacular to have an example in front of you, to be able to analyze it, and to feel how it acts negatively on yourself as a spectator.
Rather than see such a drama, I would much rather read complicated scientific articles about quantum physics, the real thing, not the one single sentence line about it used in the drama.
I copy-past here a spoiler from my review (but I told it before on another blog). It's about what you say of the drama : "It's like going to a math class without sleeping, with a teacher who can't explain things properly, when you already have gaps in the basics."
LR was shot in the leg in episode 15. I'm sure TE would know how to take advantage of that wound. Also, TE took…
Please have mercy on me! I've got to move on, this drama's already crumbling in my memory. And since the narration was already done in such a way that nothing can be remembered, it's even worse. It makes me nauseous, and I'm at the point where only a daily makjang can be a shock treatment. I will have the pleasure of seeing lots of plot-hole in a story that is properly told. If I could save myself, I would come back before I saw TKEM. Actually, no, I would come back at the age of 10 since nothing prevents me from doing so, and the yo-yo kid said so, although for someone who gives vague advice (but maybe wise, well, go figure), he's not very talkative. All the storytelling problems I've analyzed and related, especially regarding the script and the way to tell the story, you'll also find them on the incredibly high number of negative reviews on mydramalist. I can't tell you anything more, you've already read everything the times we were on this comment thread, or maybe on other blogs. Anyway, you chose to love this drama no matter what. So you're not concerned about anything. But at least it will help you to understand why this drama can't reach the audience, and because of what huge flaws in the writing, felt or identified by everyone. I have to leave this thread now, please let me go. T T
It's very irregular. On the one hand the 3 main actresses are very talented, and some important scenes are well…
Villains are good in Mysterious personal shopper, especially the psychologist! That woman is really horrible! :-D W is a drama which is even more pleasant when you re-watch it than the first time, but I won't get into the debate, it would be too long. If you liked it, don't hesitate to go on my blog to see season 2 ;-) http://w4worlds.eklablog.com
LR was shot in the leg in episode 15. I'm sure TE would know how to take advantage of that wound. Also, TE took…
Star wars is not good science fiction, but at least the rules of the world are laid down and obvious, and the viewer can rest on that. One accepts without any problem the fact that all this is a western set in the future, sometimes unscientific, but the universe is true to itself and constant in its logic. So, there is no use to do what you call "nitpicking" but isn't. That's the whole problem with TKEM: the inability to do that.
And my remarks are not nitpicking! It's just the result of what happens when you try to rest on a solid foundation. So, before doing that, I had to first try to get there and understand the drama. It takes a lot of crazy efforts, which already makes it impossible to appreciate the story. And in the end everything is blurry and wobbly. If my remarks are nitpicking, you should realize that any action aimed at understanding this drama is nitpicking! Or you have to unplug the brain and look at pretty pictures. Vaguely symbolic stuff whose function was to enrich meaning or emotion, but which end up being only a superficial illustration. I don't reproach this creative aspect which could have been fascinating, I reproach the fact that it is based on nothing, and loses any effect or impact.
The rule of time travel has been established with a logic that we must already spot but which finally makes sense: the flute is no longer whole and to travel in time you need a whole flute. This is always possible with two pieces of flute with a restriction. So, if Tae Eul gets stuck in the in-between world instead of time traveling, Lee Gon can't logically travel in time either. But fortunately, the screenwriter keeps it all very fuzzy from the beginning. And anyway, there's no real explanation, and it's all rushed at lightning speed. Neither seen nor known. Your answer is exactly what I expected. Yoyo Kid can say or do almost anything. Usefulness of the scenario? It's just the screenwriter's avatar in God mode. Pathetic. A permanent deus ex-machina. But even her words are nebulous and too brief to sit the mechanics. Lee Gon could've saved himself just as well by coming back a week before the palace attack! And I remind you that he's not supposed to be able to go back in time before the flute is cut in half. That's the problem with restricting the power of the flute. Again, plot-hole!
It's very irregular. On the one hand the 3 main actresses are very talented, and some important scenes are well filmed, and there are always good cliffhangers. On the other hand there are also scenes filmed in the studio like a daily show, with boring characters. With so many episodes, it looks like there is a need to furnish with that so as not to overload the main actors, because the shooting rhythm is certainly intense. I watched because Park Ha Na is one of my favorite actresses, and she mostly shoots dailies.
Lee Gon opens the gate, then he throws the flute in!!! The portal close forever. Next scene, multigate dimension. The flute is on the beach, in the middle of the pillars of light. A big rough purple hand grabs the flute ! Someone is there, a dark threat, in this dimension... It's THANOS! He's examining the flute. Then he breaks it in his hand! THANOS - Pfff, no use, crap... Then he throws away the broken pieces, which disintegrate by themselves.
I absolutely love reading your analyses and criticisms about the drama. Very well-written and eloquent. Hell I…
Indirectly, all the suffering we have endured together has allowed us to see this drama through to the end, when it should have been dropped a long time ago. The opposite effect of what should have been has taken place.
LR was shot in the leg in episode 15. I'm sure TE would know how to take advantage of that wound. Also, TE took…
To love a scene like that, you need a clear situation already. At that moment, I was already asking myself other questions, alas: - It takes two pieces of flutes to travel back in time, why does Lee Gon do it when Tae Eul didn't travel with him all the way to the end? - Time travel can only take place at the point where the flutes were cut off, not before. However, they arrive before the flute is broken. Nonsense. And if that was the case, we might as well go back a week and take the flute before anything else. We can even go and kill Lee Lim in his bed, we can even go and kill Lee Lim's grandfather! Because Yoyo Kid said something? Good, he can say anything in this case, it happens. What suspense! - What's the use of taking the risk of getting stuck in the in-between world, when if Tae Eul goes out in 1994 with Lee Lim: 1) she will be able to kill Lee Lim easily (it's amazing that her beloved lover Lee Gon never told her about his adventures and the story of the objects which no longer works). 2) she is sure not to lose her memories. - Why didn't Lee Gon offer her to come, already, instead of giving her a tearful farewell? For a supposed genius, it was the obvious solution, the sure way for Tae Eul to be subjected to the same conditions as him, to keep her memory. - Why did Lee Lim say that he and Tae Eul would get stuck in the in-between world, when world would cease to exist. And where does he get this makeshift idea that they would stay there forever when they don't have a flute? Lee Lim isn't very smart either. If his old self takes the flute, the two previous flute pieces disappear, and this in-between world ceases to exist, since it is the passage between the two worlds that Lee Gon wants to close. - As a proof, time starts again there, and the in-between world ends up self-destructing. The two worlds of the flute pieces merge at the end, and the red balloons invade the world of the pictures. - And why do they stay in the in-between world so long after the flute has been retrieved by the other Lee Lim? Misplaced flashback? Wrong chronology of the narration? Quick answer: a rotten scene with Shin-Jay intercalated at the wrong time. Answer maybe incomplete. Bad narration, as usual. - For some illogical reason, the pictures are destroyed, not the red balloons, while the whole dimension is collapsing. - Why is the body of the other Lee Lim disintegrated? Note that even if it had been the Lee Lim of the past who dies and then the Lee Lim of the future who disintegrates, it would have been very bad too. - How can Tae Eul survive this cataclysm? By what magical operation does she find herself elsewhere in another time? While theoretically, it is out of time and space, or at least at a point in time between 2020 and 1994 in the in-between world. More 1994 if we want to minimize the plot-hole. So the Tae Eul we see here is subject to the same temporal rules that affected Lee Gon on his first trip. If she wants to be herself again, with the wobbly process of merging memories, it must use a way to go back to the future. But anyway she could be destroyed, or be magically moved anywhere at any time, without us ever seeing anything or knowing how it works. There is absolutely no reason given for her to be back in her home world with her memory, having merged ROK's Tae Eul with the one that was in the in-between world, which logically should have been destroyed, or evacuated anywhere else. - And if the process of merging memories is systematic, why doesn't Lee Gon merge with the old Lee Gon who went back in time to the beginning of the drama? - And if he doesn't merge, how would he replace him? Normally, he would have to come to the crime room, and see another Lee Gon, the one who was there at the beginning of the drama.
That's one of the reasons why this drama is a big mess about the logic of things. As for the total disaster on the narrative level, it's explained in my review (but I didn't have the motivation to write something as structured as I would have liked). I could go on for hours, but all these insoluble questions because of a bad drama unable to establish a minimum of coherence exhausts me ...
The reasons why people love this drama? Because we can serve bad things up without a problem. Look how successful fast food restaurants are! People force themselves to love for various irrational reasons like Lee Min Ho or whatever. You're enchanted by the poetic aspect, aesthetics and all that. You don't even need the rest. If the drama is completely screwed up and unreadable, that doesn't stop you from unplugging your brain and looking at pretty pictures even if they are edited anyhow, without any intelligible narrative sense. So read the avalanche of comments and reviews from disappointed people. But you already know it, and because you took things in reverse, you may have had the motivation to review episodes and try to go deeper into the subject, try to understand the drama better despite the infamous mud that was being poured week after week. But that's not the way things work, and without a solid storytelling in the first place, no one wants to see something that bad again. I forced myself to do it as far as I'm concerned. Note that your motive to love drama is still more noble than the actor's stubborn fans.
LR was shot in the leg in episode 15. I'm sure TE would know how to take advantage of that wound. Also, TE took…
Ahhh!!!! That's not the point!!! And it's not hope anyway making the gun shot. When I look at this scene from beginning to end, it's very successful in terms of the poetry, and the various meanings put into it. You even have the defeat of the bad guy, symbolized by the arrival of the red balloons and all that! But in order for poetry to reach its goal, you need a story that will hold up! We're in a drama, otherwise we might as well read a book of poems.
The scene is aesthetically/philosophically successful, but totally failed for the "mind-blowing" aspect. And to manage to place this scene at all costs, the screenwriter had to miss out on any coherence. So she can place any aesthetic scene, with a mickey poem, anytime, for no reason!
For this scene to stand, it was really necessary to work on the context, to define the rules of fantasy, and to include the inevitable events that lead to this scene. That's the basis of a script! If you don't do that, well it's simple, anyone can tell anything, and I assure you that you'll find lots of people a hundred times more talented than this writer to do that.
Also, it's totaly impossible to get immersion in this drama, so bad is the narrative all along. I already explained 100 times. If you don't understand what you see, you are put out of immersion. You need to rewatch, analyse, go on blog, thinks more after. No immersion in the drama itself. When you see things without context or coherence, you also get out of immersion immediatly. It's not new, it had been like that in all cinema history.
1 
Episode 1 : 20%
Episode 2 : 60%
Episode 3 : 85%
Episode 4 : 99%
We're never done laughing here. ^^
No hindsight or feedback compared to other works.
Well, that's also one of the things that's done wrong, the inability to produce that effect! The whole system of clues is messed up, no focus at the right time, all upside down. The spectator never gets the benefit of his discoveries nor have proof afterward. The great authors of cinema are talented enough to make the truth arrive in the spectator's mind like a flash of light! This is difficult to do, and often, for it to work, it is limited to a reasonable number of occurrences.
Apart from that you're wrong, well, to say that, we should already know what this famous spoon means. But there are other ways of cognitive assimilation. Repetition and redundancy, for example. Progressive practice, etc. And above all, the clarity of the teacher in his explanations and examples during the class! Or the way he makes his lecture exciting, and makes the students want to know more. (another point on which the drama fails splendidly)
I didn't answer because I have to leave this topic at some point, and I've already learned everything there is to learn from TKEM about the mistakes not to make in a script. Basically anything that prevents the viewer from being immersed, diminishes emotion, obscures clarity, artificially complicates, hides information without justification related to the plot or a real mind-blowing effect, or nullifies belief in the fantastic principle of the story for lack of evidence. And many other things about all the precise processes leading to this kind of fiasco, too many characters, their lack of usefulness, the excessive splitting of scenes and storyline, the failed elipses, the wrong indication of the context, and so on. I already knew this intuitively, but it's still spectacular to have an example in front of you, to be able to analyze it, and to feel how it acts negatively on yourself as a spectator.
Rather than see such a drama, I would much rather read complicated scientific articles about quantum physics, the real thing, not the one single sentence line about it used in the drama.
"It's like going to a math class without sleeping, with a teacher who can't explain things properly, when you already have gaps in the basics."
If I could save myself, I would come back before I saw TKEM. Actually, no, I would come back at the age of 10 since nothing prevents me from doing so, and the yo-yo kid said so, although for someone who gives vague advice (but maybe wise, well, go figure), he's not very talkative.
All the storytelling problems I've analyzed and related, especially regarding the script and the way to tell the story, you'll also find them on the incredibly high number of negative reviews on mydramalist. I can't tell you anything more, you've already read everything the times we were on this comment thread, or maybe on other blogs.
Anyway, you chose to love this drama no matter what. So you're not concerned about anything. But at least it will help you to understand why this drama can't reach the audience, and because of what huge flaws in the writing, felt or identified by everyone.
I have to leave this thread now, please let me go. T T
W is a drama which is even more pleasant when you re-watch it than the first time, but I won't get into the debate, it would be too long. If you liked it, don't hesitate to go on my blog to see season 2 ;-)
http://w4worlds.eklablog.com
That's the whole problem with TKEM: the inability to do that.
And my remarks are not nitpicking! It's just the result of what happens when you try to rest on a solid foundation. So, before doing that, I had to first try to get there and understand the drama. It takes a lot of crazy efforts, which already makes it impossible to appreciate the story. And in the end everything is blurry and wobbly. If my remarks are nitpicking, you should realize that any action aimed at understanding this drama is nitpicking!
Or you have to unplug the brain and look at pretty pictures. Vaguely symbolic stuff whose function was to enrich meaning or emotion, but which end up being only a superficial illustration. I don't reproach this creative aspect which could have been fascinating, I reproach the fact that it is based on nothing, and loses any effect or impact.
The rule of time travel has been established with a logic that we must already spot but which finally makes sense: the flute is no longer whole and to travel in time you need a whole flute. This is always possible with two pieces of flute with a restriction.
So, if Tae Eul gets stuck in the in-between world instead of time traveling, Lee Gon can't logically travel in time either. But fortunately, the screenwriter keeps it all very fuzzy from the beginning. And anyway, there's no real explanation, and it's all rushed at lightning speed. Neither seen nor known.
Your answer is exactly what I expected. Yoyo Kid can say or do almost anything. Usefulness of the scenario? It's just the screenwriter's avatar in God mode. Pathetic. A permanent deus ex-machina. But even her words are nebulous and too brief to sit the mechanics. Lee Gon could've saved himself just as well by coming back a week before the palace attack! And I remind you that he's not supposed to be able to go back in time before the flute is cut in half. That's the problem with restricting the power of the flute. Again, plot-hole!
I watched because Park Ha Na is one of my favorite actresses, and she mostly shoots dailies.
Lee Gon opens the gate, then he throws the flute in!!!
The portal close forever.
Next scene, multigate dimension.
The flute is on the beach, in the middle of the pillars of light.
A big rough purple hand grabs the flute !
Someone is there, a dark threat, in this dimension...
It's THANOS!
He's examining the flute.
Then he breaks it in his hand!
THANOS - Pfff, no use, crap...
Then he throws away the broken pieces, which disintegrate by themselves.
The opposite effect of what should have been has taken place.
At that moment, I was already asking myself other questions, alas:
- It takes two pieces of flutes to travel back in time, why does Lee Gon do it when Tae Eul didn't travel with him all the way to the end?
- Time travel can only take place at the point where the flutes were cut off, not before. However, they arrive before the flute is broken. Nonsense. And if that was the case, we might as well go back a week and take the flute before anything else. We can even go and kill Lee Lim in his bed, we can even go and kill Lee Lim's grandfather! Because Yoyo Kid said something? Good, he can say anything in this case, it happens. What suspense!
- What's the use of taking the risk of getting stuck in the in-between world, when if Tae Eul goes out in 1994 with Lee Lim:
1) she will be able to kill Lee Lim easily (it's amazing that her beloved lover Lee Gon never told her about his adventures and the story of the objects which no longer works).
2) she is sure not to lose her memories.
- Why didn't Lee Gon offer her to come, already, instead of giving her a tearful farewell? For a supposed genius, it was the obvious solution, the sure way for Tae Eul to be subjected to the same conditions as him, to keep her memory.
- Why did Lee Lim say that he and Tae Eul would get stuck in the in-between world, when world would cease to exist. And where does he get this makeshift idea that they would stay there forever when they don't have a flute? Lee Lim isn't very smart either. If his old self takes the flute, the two previous flute pieces disappear, and this in-between world ceases to exist, since it is the passage between the two worlds that Lee Gon wants to close.
- As a proof, time starts again there, and the in-between world ends up self-destructing. The two worlds of the flute pieces merge at the end, and the red balloons invade the world of the pictures.
- And why do they stay in the in-between world so long after the flute has been retrieved by the other Lee Lim? Misplaced flashback? Wrong chronology of the narration? Quick answer: a rotten scene with Shin-Jay intercalated at the wrong time. Answer maybe incomplete. Bad narration, as usual.
- For some illogical reason, the pictures are destroyed, not the red balloons, while the whole dimension is collapsing.
- Why is the body of the other Lee Lim disintegrated? Note that even if it had been the Lee Lim of the past who dies and then the Lee Lim of the future who disintegrates, it would have been very bad too.
- How can Tae Eul survive this cataclysm? By what magical operation does she find herself elsewhere in another time? While theoretically, it is out of time and space, or at least at a point in time between 2020 and 1994 in the in-between world. More 1994 if we want to minimize the plot-hole. So the Tae Eul we see here is subject to the same temporal rules that affected Lee Gon on his first trip. If she wants to be herself again, with the wobbly process of merging memories, it must use a way to go back to the future. But anyway she could be destroyed, or be magically moved anywhere at any time, without us ever seeing anything or knowing how it works. There is absolutely no reason given for her to be back in her home world with her memory, having merged ROK's Tae Eul with the one that was in the in-between world, which logically should have been destroyed, or evacuated anywhere else.
- And if the process of merging memories is systematic, why doesn't Lee Gon merge with the old Lee Gon who went back in time to the beginning of the drama?
- And if he doesn't merge, how would he replace him? Normally, he would have to come to the crime room, and see another Lee Gon, the one who was there at the beginning of the drama.
That's one of the reasons why this drama is a big mess about the logic of things. As for the total disaster on the narrative level, it's explained in my review (but I didn't have the motivation to write something as structured as I would have liked).
I could go on for hours, but all these insoluble questions because of a bad drama unable to establish a minimum of coherence exhausts me ...
The reasons why people love this drama? Because we can serve bad things up without a problem. Look how successful fast food restaurants are! People force themselves to love for various irrational reasons like Lee Min Ho or whatever.
You're enchanted by the poetic aspect, aesthetics and all that. You don't even need the rest. If the drama is completely screwed up and unreadable, that doesn't stop you from unplugging your brain and looking at pretty pictures even if they are edited anyhow, without any intelligible narrative sense. So read the avalanche of comments and reviews from disappointed people. But you already know it, and because you took things in reverse, you may have had the motivation to review episodes and try to go deeper into the subject, try to understand the drama better despite the infamous mud that was being poured week after week. But that's not the way things work, and without a solid storytelling in the first place, no one wants to see something that bad again. I forced myself to do it as far as I'm concerned.
Note that your motive to love drama is still more noble than the actor's stubborn fans.
where ?
And it's not hope anyway making the gun shot.
When I look at this scene from beginning to end, it's very successful in terms of the poetry, and the various meanings put into it. You even have the defeat of the bad guy, symbolized by the arrival of the red balloons and all that!
But in order for poetry to reach its goal, you need a story that will hold up! We're in a drama, otherwise we might as well read a book of poems.
The scene is aesthetically/philosophically successful, but totally failed for the "mind-blowing" aspect. And to manage to place this scene at all costs, the screenwriter had to miss out on any coherence. So she can place any aesthetic scene, with a mickey poem, anytime, for no reason!
For this scene to stand, it was really necessary to work on the context, to define the rules of fantasy, and to include the inevitable events that lead to this scene. That's the basis of a script!
If you don't do that, well it's simple, anyone can tell anything, and I assure you that you'll find lots of people a hundred times more talented than this writer to do that.
Also, it's totaly impossible to get immersion in this drama, so bad is the narrative all along. I already explained 100 times. If you don't understand what you see, you are put out of immersion. You need to rewatch, analyse, go on blog, thinks more after. No immersion in the drama itself.
When you see things without context or coherence, you also get out of immersion immediatly. It's not new, it had been like that in all cinema history.