if no romance why is it labeled as such. not that I can watch it because there is a horror aspect allegedly.
There are attempts at romance for sure. It's just that the actor who plays Mas is visibly uncomfortable with that, while the character should be into it.
I'd also really like to see more of the Golf Kittipat x Godji ship that was cast as a side couple in '23.5', where they both got to have actual roles besides comedic relief. But in general, you're right, that is what transfeminine characters are typecast as. It's really one-dimensional.
I had hope that GMMTV would break the pattern with 'Diva Deva Mata' and give us a bit more depth and diversity, but nope it was worse! What a shitshow. The punchline of every joke was essentially 'haha look at the contrast between them trying to be perfectly feminine, cute and desirable, and their loud, disgusting, aggressive, promiscuous, masculine reality', which is the usual way transfemme comedic relief characters get used in Thai shows. Really tried, but I couldn't finish it. The MDL audience doesn't appear to have picked up on the inherent transphobia in that show at all, because I guess they're accustomed to it, and I'm positively surprised that 'Her' did finally cross that line for a lot of people.
I'm not against loud comedic transfeminine characters in general. We can reclaim that. 'I'm The Most Beautiful Count' is flipping brilliant. The comedy there relies on the contrast between the main character's loud modern queer pop star persona, and their conservative, utterly confused surroundings. The audience isn't constantly being prompted to laugh at Worradech's expense/ at their gender norm failures. Worradech has a sense of humor and we're laughing with them, not at them. They're shown experiencing the full range of human emotions, growing, changing, and influencing the plot with their decisions. Those are the basic necessities for any well-rounded character, but it's exceedingly rare for trans characters in Thai shows. (Using they/them because based on the show I think the character is nonbinary. The actor uses he/him for the character in English but that doesn't seem right to me.)
i don't think we should judge a series by just 3 minute pilot. The producers said that this was not a transgender…
By then it'll be too late to change anything about it. GMMTV often appears to listen to its viewers. Why would we not try to change things before it's too late? The central premise of the plot, as shown in the pilot, is that transition is primarily a way to deceive those around you, which is a dangerous misconception that gets real life trans women killed (look up murder statistics and the 'trans panic' legal defense). Why would we not try to stop GMMTV from reinforcing that misconception in such a mainstream series?
You know what, I appreciate the honesty. A lot of transphobic people are really two-faced about it and keep denying, minimizing, hiding behind fake progressivism etc, but you're at least willing to be open about what you believe. There is something to be said for that.
To be clear, I do think what you believe is abhorrent, but I'm not interested in attempting to convince you otherwise. Have a nice rest of your day, or night, idk where you are.
in the pilot trailer they stabbed his private part. if he were to try and fixed it at a doctor it would be hard…
No please don't just speculate about what sex reassignment surgeries must be like and then assume you're correct about it. That's exactly the kind of stuff I'm afraid of with this series, just how out of touch it is with reality for trans people. It's wild cis fantasy presented as fact, and cis audiences don't know enough about transition to KNOW that it's wild fantasy instead of fact, and that's a problem. (In general I quite like wild fantasy in dramas, that's not the problem, the problem is confusing it with reality.)
In vaginoplasty they turn the penis inside out to create the inside of the neovagina. Not having a penis to turn inside out is a problem. Though they can also use a part of the colon.
Phalloplasty is a surgery where a penis is created out of a skin graft taken from the thigh or forearm. It was developed for soldiers who lost their dick in war injuries during the world wars, but now trans men can also get it.
You don't just transplant a dick from another person. You want the tissue to come from the patient themselves, so that the body's immune system doesn't attack it. People who get organ transplants have to take immunosuppressants every day for the rest of their life or their body will attack the new organ. You don't do that unless it's absolutely necessary, because immune systems are pretty vital actually.
Vaginoplasty and phalloplasty are both very intense surgeries, so no it would not make medical sense to go for a vaginoplasty rather than a phalloplasty, at all. For a person assigned male at birth it will be infinitely easier to access phalloplasty than vaginoplasty, because in order to qualify for transition-related healthcare like that, you need to go through endless processes with several psychologists who dig deep into the reasons why you want to transition, any possible mental health issues, your childhood, possible traumas, your sexuality, they ask your parents or partner to show up to an appointment, etcetera etcetera.
This character would probably fail that process and be denied. Or they'd have to be really good at lying, in detail, for months-years, to multiple professionals whose whole job description is to discern who's really trans and who isn't and who'll (in my & my friends' experience) happily take any minor doubt or suspicion as an excuse to deny trans people healthcare.
On top of that, before you can even see such a psychologist, you have to wait for years to get just a first intake appointment, because there's not enough professionals for the amount of trans patients there are. If you want both hrt and surgeries, then you have to be on hrt for a specified amount of time (generally >1 year) before you can get a surgery. So that's years of waiting for an intake, about a year of psychologists to get green light to transition (if not denied and delayed), at least a year of hormone therapy, and then you go on the years-long wait list for the sex reassignment surgery itself.
You really want me to believe this character held on to this grudge for a decade in order to transition and get their revenge? Because realistically that's how long it would probably take. And then I'm not even talking about how long it takes for estrogen to work its magic. YEARS. (But testosterone actually works pretty fast). Or voice training, facial feminization surgery, changing legal documents etc. The idea that medical transition is easily accessible and fast is a harmful misconception.
So no it's not 'easier' to become a woman. In reality, their doctor would've probably recommended reconstructive phalloplasty and they could've gotten plastic surgery on their face to try to look like a different person. Both of which they could've accessed pretty much immediately, without any of the medical gatekeeping. 'Oops lost my dick, guess it's time to be a woman' is not a logical thing to happen, to anyone, ever.
Questionable premise. What kind of creep goes on asexual dating websites to lie about being ace and pick up ace women? Bro they're on an ace dating site to avoid people like you!
And his reason to go there is that he doesn't want a serious relationship? So a romantic relationship without sex is inherently less serious? She's not aromantic. She very much wants a serious romantic relationship.
Really hope they don't end up together, but I guess they will since this is a romance drama.
What do you mean about the transition being forced? I didn't see hints towards that happening in the trailer.…
People tell the wildest stories haha. It really should've been up to the press to do better fact checking, but I guess it was a lucrative viral story so they opted not to haha. But yeah am glad it doesn't seem real at all. :)
But I'm going to be real, that sounds very fake. It sounds like this person did want the SRS but then didn't know how to tell their parents and made up this story about being forced into it. The hospital staff involved in this case (which necessarily has to be a lot of people) say they have video evidence of the patient in question expressing their desire for SRS which they will present in court, and they're being backed by the hospital chief.
I really don't see why that many professionals would all conspire together to remove the genitals of one stranger, just because an abusive partner asked them to? Why would they all risk losing their license and going to jail for this? How would they even hope to hide their misdeeds, since the evidence is so obvious? What motive could they have to take that gigantic amount of risk?
The patient claims it was done because of organ trafficking, but I don't see how that makes any sense, since during vaginoplasty a penis doesn't just get chopped off, it gets turned inside out to create a neovagina. So what's left to traffic? I think it's a very far-fetched theory, sorry. If this was about organ trafficking, wouldn't it have been easier to kill the patient for more organs, and so that the patient couldn't go around and complain to the press? Or at least to take a more logical organ, that more donor recipients are on waiting lists for?
The patient's story also changes from news story to news story. In some of the stories they were lured to their friend/partner/abuser's apartment and drugged and operated on then and there, woke up in the apartment and immediately called their parents to get them to call the hospital asap. In other news articles the patient was instead lured to the hospital for some phony health procedure and operated on in the hospital. Neither of these sound remotely likely to me.
I have to call BS. But it's a sensational story for sure. Makes sense that it would go viral and leave lasting impressions on people.
If forced srs by drugging people were a thing that happened, then that would be really fucked up though, like holy heck that's evil, definitely agree there!
Based on the comments I read below, I have a personal rant of my own! As a trans individual myself, I have incredibly…
What do you mean about the transition being forced? I didn't see hints towards that happening in the trailer.
Did you also mean to say that's a thing that happens in real life? Because I don't think real people get forced into medically transitioning, unless we're talking about nonconsensual normalising surgeries on intersex infants, but that doesn't seem relevant here.
I really hope you didn't mean to say that gender transition is always forced and tragic and heteronormative when it happens. I don't think you meant that, but based on the wording I'm also not 100% sure. But I probably am just being a bit dense.
when i watched the trailer of this series, i thought that the junior’s character was k¡lled and he was reborn…
Am trans but not transfem. If they change the plot so that namtan's character had deep-seated repressed trans feelings before the whole revenge and getting injured - thing, then it's a very cautious maybe from me.
But honestly the fact that they've connected gender transition so closely to deceit and malice is kind of unforgivably transphobic. That's the exact misconception that hurts IRL trans people most (it leads to physical violence towards trans women). Transition isn't deceit, it's finally outwardly being who you actually were all along. It's finally being honest.
The fact that they didn't hire a trans actress is then just the cherry on top. But I guess it's good they went with a cis woman rather than a cis man. It could've been worse.
Having a trans woman as a main role, with a romantic partner, could be positively revolutionary if handled well, but it does not look like it's being handled well. Right now I'm not sure there is a way to salvage this plot, because transition as deceit is kind of its central premise.
Anyways for anyone looking for good Thai trans stories I recommend 'Saneha Kap Cheevit' and 'The Iron Ladies'. (And I also want to plug 'Marahuyo Project' because aaaah ❤️!)
Did those reasons to transition include y'know, actually being trans? Or were they all external/circumstantial…
I'm anxious about this one and do not have the blind trust in gmmtv that you do, or in the writer, because I don't know who they are. If p'aof was directing this I'd trust him to make sure the topic was handled with the care it needs.
But I will (anxiously) suspend judgement until more is known.
An outdated transphobic theory called 'autogynephilia', which posits that trans women transition because being a woman turns them on. Some real shite thought up by some real shite humans. YouTuber ContraPoints has a video essay deep dive on it.
Really reminds me of 'I Will Knock You', where there's also a drama-obsessed gangster with a scary exterior but a goofy and soft interior paired with a regular guy.
1
https://mydramalist.com/people/41623-paper-peerada-namwong
https://mydramalist.com/people/49619-yoshi-rinrada-thurapan
https://mydramalist.com/people/129391-rock-kwanlada-rungrojampa
https://mydramalist.com/people/71889-chananchida-roongpetchrat
I'd also really like to see more of the Golf Kittipat x Godji ship that was cast as a side couple in '23.5', where they both got to have actual roles besides comedic relief. But in general, you're right, that is what transfeminine characters are typecast as. It's really one-dimensional.
I had hope that GMMTV would break the pattern with 'Diva Deva Mata' and give us a bit more depth and diversity, but nope it was worse! What a shitshow. The punchline of every joke was essentially 'haha look at the contrast between them trying to be perfectly feminine, cute and desirable, and their loud, disgusting, aggressive, promiscuous, masculine reality', which is the usual way transfemme comedic relief characters get used in Thai shows. Really tried, but I couldn't finish it. The MDL audience doesn't appear to have picked up on the inherent transphobia in that show at all, because I guess they're accustomed to it, and I'm positively surprised that 'Her' did finally cross that line for a lot of people.
I'm not against loud comedic transfeminine characters in general. We can reclaim that. 'I'm The Most Beautiful Count' is flipping brilliant. The comedy there relies on the contrast between the main character's loud modern queer pop star persona, and their conservative, utterly confused surroundings. The audience isn't constantly being prompted to laugh at Worradech's expense/ at their gender norm failures. Worradech has a sense of humor and we're laughing with them, not at them. They're shown experiencing the full range of human emotions, growing, changing, and influencing the plot with their decisions. Those are the basic necessities for any well-rounded character, but it's exceedingly rare for trans characters in Thai shows. (Using they/them because based on the show I think the character is nonbinary. The actor uses he/him for the character in English but that doesn't seem right to me.)
To be clear, I do think what you believe is abhorrent, but I'm not interested in attempting to convince you otherwise. Have a nice rest of your day, or night, idk where you are.
In vaginoplasty they turn the penis inside out to create the inside of the neovagina. Not having a penis to turn inside out is a problem. Though they can also use a part of the colon.
Phalloplasty is a surgery where a penis is created out of a skin graft taken from the thigh or forearm. It was developed for soldiers who lost their dick in war injuries during the world wars, but now trans men can also get it.
You don't just transplant a dick from another person. You want the tissue to come from the patient themselves, so that the body's immune system doesn't attack it. People who get organ transplants have to take immunosuppressants every day for the rest of their life or their body will attack the new organ. You don't do that unless it's absolutely necessary, because immune systems are pretty vital actually.
Vaginoplasty and phalloplasty are both very intense surgeries, so no it would not make medical sense to go for a vaginoplasty rather than a phalloplasty, at all. For a person assigned male at birth it will be infinitely easier to access phalloplasty than vaginoplasty, because in order to qualify for transition-related healthcare like that, you need to go through endless processes with several psychologists who dig deep into the reasons why you want to transition, any possible mental health issues, your childhood, possible traumas, your sexuality, they ask your parents or partner to show up to an appointment, etcetera etcetera.
This character would probably fail that process and be denied. Or they'd have to be really good at lying, in detail, for months-years, to multiple professionals whose whole job description is to discern who's really trans and who isn't and who'll (in my & my friends' experience) happily take any minor doubt or suspicion as an excuse to deny trans people healthcare.
On top of that, before you can even see such a psychologist, you have to wait for years to get just a first intake appointment, because there's not enough professionals for the amount of trans patients there are. If you want both hrt and surgeries, then you have to be on hrt for a specified amount of time (generally >1 year) before you can get a surgery. So that's years of waiting for an intake, about a year of psychologists to get green light to transition (if not denied and delayed), at least a year of hormone therapy, and then you go on the years-long wait list for the sex reassignment surgery itself.
You really want me to believe this character held on to this grudge for a decade in order to transition and get their revenge? Because realistically that's how long it would probably take. And then I'm not even talking about how long it takes for estrogen to work its magic. YEARS. (But testosterone actually works pretty fast). Or voice training, facial feminization surgery, changing legal documents etc. The idea that medical transition is easily accessible and fast is a harmful misconception.
So no it's not 'easier' to become a woman. In reality, their doctor would've probably recommended reconstructive phalloplasty and they could've gotten plastic surgery on their face to try to look like a different person. Both of which they could've accessed pretty much immediately, without any of the medical gatekeeping. 'Oops lost my dick, guess it's time to be a woman' is not a logical thing to happen, to anyone, ever.
And his reason to go there is that he doesn't want a serious relationship? So a romantic relationship without sex is inherently less serious? She's not aromantic. She very much wants a serious romantic relationship.
Really hope they don't end up together, but I guess they will since this is a romance drama.
I went to Google and found the case you're talking about https://www.news18.com/india/god-will-never-forgive-him-up-man-who-was-forced-to-undergo-sex-change-surgery-tells-his-tale-8942881.html
But I'm going to be real, that sounds very fake. It sounds like this person did want the SRS but then didn't know how to tell their parents and made up this story about being forced into it. The hospital staff involved in this case (which necessarily has to be a lot of people) say they have video evidence of the patient in question expressing their desire for SRS which they will present in court, and they're being backed by the hospital chief.
I really don't see why that many professionals would all conspire together to remove the genitals of one stranger, just because an abusive partner asked them to? Why would they all risk losing their license and going to jail for this? How would they even hope to hide their misdeeds, since the evidence is so obvious? What motive could they have to take that gigantic amount of risk?
The patient claims it was done because of organ trafficking, but I don't see how that makes any sense, since during vaginoplasty a penis doesn't just get chopped off, it gets turned inside out to create a neovagina. So what's left to traffic? I think it's a very far-fetched theory, sorry. If this was about organ trafficking, wouldn't it have been easier to kill the patient for more organs, and so that the patient couldn't go around and complain to the press? Or at least to take a more logical organ, that more donor recipients are on waiting lists for?
The patient's story also changes from news story to news story. In some of the stories they were lured to their friend/partner/abuser's apartment and drugged and operated on then and there, woke up in the apartment and immediately called their parents to get them to call the hospital asap. In other news articles the patient was instead lured to the hospital for some phony health procedure and operated on in the hospital. Neither of these sound remotely likely to me.
I have to call BS. But it's a sensational story for sure. Makes sense that it would go viral and leave lasting impressions on people.
If forced srs by drugging people were a thing that happened, then that would be really fucked up though, like holy heck that's evil, definitely agree there!
Did you also mean to say that's a thing that happens in real life? Because I don't think real people get forced into medically transitioning, unless we're talking about nonconsensual normalising surgeries on intersex infants, but that doesn't seem relevant here.
I really hope you didn't mean to say that gender transition is always forced and tragic and heteronormative when it happens. I don't think you meant that, but based on the wording I'm also not 100% sure. But I probably am just being a bit dense.
But honestly the fact that they've connected gender transition so closely to deceit and malice is kind of unforgivably transphobic. That's the exact misconception that hurts IRL trans people most (it leads to physical violence towards trans women). Transition isn't deceit, it's finally outwardly being who you actually were all along. It's finally being honest.
The fact that they didn't hire a trans actress is then just the cherry on top. But I guess it's good they went with a cis woman rather than a cis man. It could've been worse.
Having a trans woman as a main role, with a romantic partner, could be positively revolutionary if handled well, but it does not look like it's being handled well. Right now I'm not sure there is a way to salvage this plot, because transition as deceit is kind of its central premise.
Anyways for anyone looking for good Thai trans stories I recommend 'Saneha Kap Cheevit' and 'The Iron Ladies'. (And I also want to plug 'Marahuyo Project' because aaaah ❤️!)
But I will (anxiously) suspend judgement until more is known.
But I am intrigued as to why that's the one you recommend to everyone?