vivi_1485

well, this drama is nuts but Never Twice is pretty good, as a family comedy drama

they're basically taking the most dramatic events that can happen in a family and exaggerating it. No one would watch if everybody was sane and nice and sweet and kind to everybody else.

Sure :)
Nice CEOs who aren't bullies/don't force their subordinates to do stuff:
- Never Twice(family drama, FL is a divorcee with a baby, is his secretary for a quarter of the drama)
- Secret Life of My Secretary(FL could be seen as a doormat but she learns and Veronica Paaaarrk is a whole reason why you can't miss the drama XD)
- Jugglers(ML isn't a CEO but holds a manager post, FL is his secretary - the whole drama is about secretaries)

CEOs who start out arrogant but soften up somewhere in the middle and the FL isnt a doormat(but the relationship isn't toxic)
- What's Wrong With Secretary Kim(FL is ML's secretary)
- Strong Woman Do Bong Soon(FL is ML's secretary)
- 1% of Something(FL is a kindergarten teacher)
- Suspicious Partner(ML isn't a chaebol but he's the CEO of a small law firm after he loses his prosecutor job, FL is a lawyer at his firm)
- Lost Romance(honestly one of the best, funniest romances everrrr, FL works at a publishing house in the real world and as ML's employee, then housekeeper in the fictional world)
- I'm Not A Robot(not an office drama but the ML is a CEO, FL is an enterpreneur inventor with two part time jobs: rare toy-buying agent and then a robot in ML's house)
- Tomorrow With You(not an office drama but ML is a real estate company CEO and FL is a photographer, the chemistry is FIRE)

just keep the CEO romances coming I'll swallow them all up as long as the CEO isn't a beast and the FL isn't a doormat

honestly atp WDR is my favorite character... shes screechy, unpredictable and just downright ridiculous - someone who shouldn't be taken seriously. shes so brainless that it's hard to hate her

hating this drama is my number one joy in life rn

i agree with you completely. coincidentally, the only time i ever got SLS was Who Are You 2015 too. I just got the feeling that SML truly liked the FL while ML was in love with the twin sister and switched tracks for reasons i still don't understand.

I really, really thought this would be a mature, reasonable drama. Cdrama writers have disappointed me yet again. I'm forced to continue watching, but this whole "Let's not tell the bio father anything because the grandfather is evil and the mother is idk just wack" thing is really annoying. They're both targeting his privacy. They're both targeting his financial and medical records. They're both targeting his child. But noooo nobody is allowed to tell him anything, because then we would have no content to fill this drama with.

SQ is one of my favorite characters in the show

He says he doesn't know, but every time he talks about the case, he groups NYS with the rest of them. To him, NYS is the same as his father. Finally, he asks her to tell him but of course we can't have the drama progress reasonably so we have to take her shit excuse as a reason for not involving him at all. It's almost laughable. A grandfather and mother are fighting a custody case, and both decide to keep the biological father in the dark because WHY NOT, we need to extend this drama by a lot more episodes!

you're right, I did feel something in their interactions

14 but they throw hints allll over the place even before that... they make such a big deal of Sun Zhijun being infertile, it's not hard to come to the conclusion

he didn't believe it, though. He says himself that he never believed what she said. He "hated" her because he didn't understand why she did that to him. If he hated her so much and believed she didn't love him, why is the first time we see him on screen the scene where he's buying her a cake, writing a "Dear Tan Jing" card, and going to visit her house? He changed his attitude after she tells him she's married with a kid. He thought she had moved on with life, and for the first time, his belief that she really loved him was challenged. And it's not like she has a transparent personality, either.

I also don't think SFT is qualified to be an "outsider." He clearly has deep-set grudges against NDY, and he was(probably still is) jealous of NYS. That does not make him impartial. In his advice, he assumes NYS was exactly like his father. Because he did that, he sowed seeds of doubt against NYS in TJ's mind, which was already confused. If she really wants impartial advice, she should ask SFT and Shu Qin together, because SQ is the one who knew NYS all these six/seven years. SQ was never ever mean to her, and she took everything so rationally. I can't see why someone would think she's unreliable.

I agree with you about TJ being afraid, more than being proud. Rn, the situation is - NDY wants NYS and PP without TJ. TJ wants NYS and PP without NDY. The link here is NYS. It's not like he's on good terms with his dad. From the very beginning, he's been rebelling against him. When Chubster(NYS' lawyer friend) tells him he should stop investigating, "because after all, he's your father," NYS doesn't listen to him and asks "What about what's right and wrong?" NYS isn't going to be partial. TJ is clearly his priority. NYS held his father at a huge distance all through the seven years because he had an inkling he was involved and also because he was going against his wishes by being a doctor. He didn't visit him before and doesn't visit him much in the hospital either. It's just because NDY is in the hospital that they see each other so much. I still don't understand why PP won't be hers if she lets NYS share custody. NYS lives in his own house and has his own life. Even after shooing TJ away, his dad wasn't able to convince him to stop being a doctor and take over the company. SQ was the one trying to patch the father-son relationship by calling NDY over and cooking for him. NYS wasn't really interested. The dad is going to die in a few years anyway. Why do we care so much about the stuff he does?

NYS and TJ's past relationship is still unclear to me. Were they married? IDK. They seemed to have lived together for some time. If they were living together, that means both families knew they were together. She has that showdown with NDY only when her father dies. Did she go to meet NYS in Belgium? I think so. No, actually, i still don't know. Did she marry him there? IDK. Did he go to Belgium twice? I don't know. So were they living together and THEN he goes to Belgium for the first time? Maybe. IDK with whose money NYS was going to college, but it seemed that he was also earning on the side - he scrimped and saved to buy her stuff, which means he wasn't completely living off his dad's money. If TJ's dad knew she was with NYS, would he really be happy seeing the situation they are in rn? A lot of things aren't adding up here.

If the Nie family wasn't rich, it would still matter. It would actually be a lot better, since the nasty father would be less of a problem. NYS is the father of the kid. She wants to get back with him but also doesn't want to get back with him(Yes, she's afraid, I know). Both NYS and SZJ lay claim to the role of PP's father, and she doesn't stop either of them. She didn't marry SZJ, but she allowed him to adopt the child. She even offered to tell PP that NYS is the father, but NYS was the one who told her to take it slow. Sun Zhijun isn't part of any of her plans. Again, that part confuses me, because I'm sure a mother can give her name to her child in China. I remember watching a drama where the FL is pregnant and the father says "We'll have two kids. One can have the mom's surname and the other can have the dad's." (the parents were legally married, staying together/planning to stay together forever, in love, planned to raise their kids in the same house together, everything.)

NYS isn't forcing himself on PP or TJ. He's asked permission to enter their lives multiple times. He gave her his keys. She took it. He asked if he could get closer to his son. She allowed it. He watched over PP during the weekends and she allowed it. He kissed her. She kissed him back. He asked her to divorce SZJ. She agreed(even though it's a lie, to him, it's another signal). He told her he wanted to work with her as PP's parents and not as the children of archenemies. She didn't say no. He said he wanted to be honest with her, and he WAS honest with her. He didn't ask for accountability in return, which means he's trying to give her space too. He asked about custody, and she didn't really answer.

I'm not saying either FL or ML is a bad person. All people are grey.

I don't think Shu Qin would have, though... her heart was still totally with Mark. She seemed to have said yes because Mark showed so much nonchalance when she told him NYS had asked her out. Then they have dinner together and shoot undercover darts at each other in the conversation. SQ used NYS to needle Mark, and it worked. He responded with jealousy, constantly bringing NYS up in every conversation with her. That's when she knew he wasn't over her either.

Just in case someone misunderstands, I'm not saying SQ is a bad character here. I think that arc played out very well. Both NYS and SQ are very smart people.

oh we're all just discussing the drama and the characters - not taking anything very seriously lol

This. This is exactly what I can't understand. I feel very very bad for the sad life she had to live, but a lot of it was her own choice. I forgive her for not telling ML she was pregnant. Can't imagine how bewildered, scared and confused she would have been. Okay. Its okay.

But after that. Once the initial flood of emotions was over. Then what? She is struggling for money, the child is struggling, but she won't ask them for help. Okay. You hate his father. Don't ask for their help.

What's the deal with Zhijun? His younger self was loving and he promised to care for her. He did care for her. He seems to have adopted PingPing, because he isn't married to her. That's another weird thing. Why didn't she just marry him? Nope, she wants to keep her distance and the two of them fund Pingping's medical needs. Then somewhere along the way, Zhijun becomes a drunkard, engages in drunken fights, gets detained multiple times,
falls for scams, wastes money, lies and takes Pingping to places... and TJ has to lie to him and keep secrets because he's so untrustworthy. When he takes Pingping to his doctor, TJ switches to "Do whatever you want, don't touch MY son. He's MY son." The "our" is gone. She doesn't treat him like a husband or even a good friend. More like another burden... keeping him around just so Pingping can call someone "Dad"

Then she meets ML. She shows absolutely no resistance when he kisses her. Kisses him back, then pushes him away and says she never loved him. "You have your needs, and I have mine" WTH was that?
Even ML feels a twinge of remorse and apologizes to Shu Qin, even though they were in a relationship where both knew the other hadn't moved on. They break up immediately. Nothing changes at ALL on TJ-Zhijun's side.

She's sooo unpredictable. You never know when she'll say yes or no to ML. She lets ML bond with her kid, even agrees to tell Pingping, and it's ML who tells her they should take it slowly. But she doesn't tell Zhijun anything, and i cannot fathom WHY. At this point, shouldn't she let Zhijun go? Zhijun's over there fighting for "his wife and child". The "wife" in question doesn't seem to share the same sentiment.

She goes and spills everything to Mark, out of all the people she could go to. Even Shu Qin was a better option. I wonder how I would have felt about Mark if i didn't come to this drama already crazy in love with Wayne Wang, assuming he was a good character. IDK. Telling her to choose between PingPing and NYS was the dumbest advice i have ever heard. ML keeps trying to be transparent with her, and idk what's going on in her head. Her mixed signals would drive anyone insane. I just don't understand her reasoning.

I also don't understand why the heck the grandpa has so much power. How on earth can he take custody when a living, breathing, completely sane member of society is the biological father?!! How the heck can he take a child away from both biological parents?! And can she PLEASE decide who she wants to take the responsibility of a father? She wants NYS to be the father but she won't let go of Zhijun and she also won't give joint custody to NYS?

(caught up till Ep 18)Question: Can ML's father mount an attack and start a custody battle without ML having a say in the matter? Isn't ML the biological father, and shouldn't he have the upper hand in case his dad starts a custody battle and tries to take the child away? I don't understand how the grandfather can take the child away if both the biological parents are against it and legally sane/trustworthy.

Sigh. ML and FL should just talk about this together. TJ never tells him when NDY subtly attacks her. I understand that she doesn't trust him yet, but logically, isn't he her best ally when it comes to fighting with his dad? How is he supposed to defend her properly when he doesn't completely know her side of the story? He's being as transparent as possible because he knows she doesn't completely trust him... she responds when he kisses her, then pushes him away... he's walking on eggshells and, to his credit, he's doing it pretty well till now. We're the ones who know exactly what she's going through, not him.

TJ should at least confirm what his stance on the matter is - he told her what he thought but she didn't respond. She isn't asking him the important questions, nor is she telling him important things. I think she should have told him what she said to Fangting. SFT hates NDY but doesn't know what kind of person NYS is. He gave advice assuming NYS is exactly like his father. What kind of relationship does he have with NYS? He hates his NYS' father and was jealous of NYS dating his ex. Biased much?

Telling her to choose blindly between NYS and PingPing was a jerk move. If SFT really, seriously wants to give accurate advice without involving NYS(idk about this weird drama logic where everyone just conveniently refuses to tell him anything when he has primary contact with the enemy), he should at least talk to his own girlfriend. Shu Qin knows NYS. She's his best friend, and she's smart and reliable. She's made it clear that she has zero romantic feelings toward NYS.

I agree. He doesn't do things on impulse. I'm still mad about everyone keeping him in the dark, but I think he's handling things pretty well. Tan Jing never tells him when his dad threatens her. How is he supposed to plan his next course of action if both his dad and TJ aren't telling him anything? He doesn't have any concrete evidence about the accident, so it's understandable that he isn't having a face-off with his dad about it. Yelling at or alienating his father would be a stupid decision, because I'm sure ML knows his dad can be a scheming jerk. Keeping an enemy close by would be a lot better than not knowing his next course of action. If ML is able to get concrete evidence on his father's evil deeds, he'll be able to get the upper hand. I don't know what the outcome of getting his dad's help for a lawyer will be.

His dad shouldn't have been in the room, and ML shouldn't have made a promise that his dad wouldn't see PingPing again, but I think ML handled that encounter very well too. It would have been incredibly stupid and immature of him to yell at his father in front of the child, who trusts and likes NDY. I liked the way he didn't allow his dad to finish the story but subtly sent him away, without alarming either patient - NDY or Ping Ping. It was night-time and he was also being considerate of the patient in the next bed.

She isn't the type of character to scream and shout, but she accomplishes whatever she sets out to do. Haven't you seen how she hurts him? She also knows she's doing it. She hurts him with her words, while he hurt her with his actions. Her personality is just different from a lot of loud characters, so I get why you're wondering why she doesn't yell.

Sun Zhijun is a nice man, but I can't say he's better than ML or that he's a saint. The family would have been a LOT more well off if he wasn't such a parasitic drunkard - and I'm letting him use his "i don't know how to earn a living" excuse. He's been detained multiple times. He comes home drunk. That can't have a positive impact on a young child like Pingping. He also sees how his mom suffers with him.

All the characters are pretty grey and realistic... except for NDY ofc

I think he's talking about the promises he broke("I won't let you cry ever") and stuff...