You know, a lot of my problems with XY come from differing values and obviously, I don't have XY's issues with fears of rejection and abandonment. I get why she is the way she is, and yet the thought of being in love with one man, still hopeful about a love confession from him while holding on to another as some kind of safety net is a lot for me to wrap my head around :-). XL knew that XY's fears were far too strong so he chose to not confess his feelings or pursue their relationship. I don't see this as him making her decision for her; he's simply exercising his right to his own decisions. If XY was stronger, and not so fearful, she could have exercised her rights to ardently pursue their relationship and she wouldn't need to hold onto Jing the way that she does. That would drastically change things.HeadInTheClouds:
I am in a similar boat in that I don't have XY's issues or values. I flatly do not think one should pursue a relationship, when you are committed to another relationship. This is one reason why I do not like Jing, and why I am frustrated by XY. And this is not just my values, but the values of XY's world. None of XY's family like Jing, because he's engaged to FFYY while courting XY. Even Jing's friend Feng Long is confused by what Jing is doing with XY -- thinking she was free for him to court. The dude is married, and he's still trying to court and control XY's life.
XL understanding XY fears may have a part, but let's not forget, XY flatly rejected XL first. That's a decision she made, not him. If he's pushing her away, it's partly because he's respecting her wishes, and the reasonsing behind it. Furthermore, it's XY who is setting the conditions for her relationships, not XL. Again, he's respecting her wishes. So I disagree that it's XL that is the one who is doing the rejecting -- especially since she's had chances to course correct, including after the wedding robbery and flatly refused to do so.
And yes! XL has a right to his own damn decisions. The double standard around their relationship is annoying. I mean, why does XL have to give up his relationship to Hong Jiang for XY, when she has consistently chosen CX over XL -- to the point of consigning him to death. And the idea that this makes XL someone how not as committed as Jing or XY is ridiculous -- given neither of them gave up squat.
Furthermore, how serious can anyone take XY, when she demands monogamy, and yet she's consistently pursuing two or more men. It irritates the heck out of me that she can only think about kissing or confessing to XL when Jing is married. Like, what person, much less XL wants to be a second choice?
Okay, rant over. ;p
windiaaa041293:
That scene is not in the novel, IIRC. I don't know, but there are quite a few differences between the novel and the drama and it's quite hard to mix them togheter and reach a conclusion that's valid for both the drama and the novel. I belive the heart of this story and TH's rawest intention is still în the 2013 edition. The drama and, to a degree, the versions that came after are a bit tricky to judge, because there are more factors that came into play, the public's reaction, the actors's fan base, censorship.blabla100:
If I'd have to guess, I'll say that "WXL, we have all the time in the world" was only added for effect, to emphasize that WXL's identity was slowly but surely reaching its end or to emphasize that the war is getting serious. Idk, but to me it doesn't look as if it depicts XL's belief much, more like the drama just wanted a little bit of a dramatic effect.
Since Tong Hua had a hand in all versions, I think a synthesis of the versions can be made... at least through season 1. It's only through the drama that we get an idea of what is going on inside XL's head, after all -- which is probably why it was added to the drama.
Uhn, no. XY just humiliated him and gouged, yet again, at his most sensitive spot. That line has nothing to do with her identity or the war (which was not getting serious at all) but with how he planned a long, long, long future with XY making her pay for her sins.
H19279:
Hi,
The last sentence that XL said is "你我有的足时间" which means "You and I have plenty of time". It just means he could "punish" WXL later. He was not in hurry
Thank you! Again proving that the Chinese text is should be referred to, and not just the translations / subtitles.
Yes, the first sentence says he's not in a hurry and that he wants to punish her slowly. The last sentence, which is the important one in this conversation, is slightly different, but still conveys the idea that he sees a very long future with her.
Oh that makes a difference. Thank you, H19279 for explaing all these differences in translation, much appreciate it.
How does that make a difference? If he was worried about dying with the army, he wouldn't say he had plenty of time left.
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Xiaotian and Xiangliu: Love each other but dare not. They became friends because of medicine. They didn't know each other without fighting. They seemed to be incompatible, but in fact they cared about each other. They hid their feelings, but they only let themselves down.
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Mention lovesickness
Xiaotian and Chishui Fenglong: A friendship between gentlemen. Fenglong asked to marry Xiaotian for profit, but Xiaotian ran away from the marriage halfway. The marriage was not pure, mixed with interests, and was destined to be a failure.
@kokuto
She didn't humiliate him, on the contrary. From chapter 48, this is him, reminiscing that episode:
"Xiang Liu watched to this part and then started laughing. From the moment he was born he didn’t have parents, and had to start surviving from that moment forward. He had no childhood or playmates or fun, and after he was an adult his reputation was so bad that no one dared to joke around with him. Xiao Yao was the first time person who dared to play tricks on him, but do so without any real ill will or harmful intention."
This doesn't really scream that he was planning a long future with her with the intent of making her pay for her sins. This was their dynamics, the secret language they shared togheter. Plenty of time left doesn't mean forever.
Chapter 48 is decades and decades later. Looking back, after all they went through, he may see that event and their interactions differently. But he was definitely not treating it as a joke at the moment or shortly after, and neither did XY -- who ran away and hid for days. Why do you think he gave her the cold shoulder afterwards and why did she volunteer a list of punishments when she asked to see him again? And why did he break the branch so she fell out of the tree?
I mean, look at his face in that scene? Does he look like he's happy to have his demon heads mocked with graffiti on his face? He literally says, he's going to settle accounts (i.e. his humiliation) with her slowwwwwwly, cause they would have (all the time in the world) plenty of time together.
"All the time in the world / plenty of time" doesn't mean forever, which even XY wasn't asking for. But it certainly doesn't mean a short time. It means, he could see a future of plenty of time, spent with XY.
It means, he could see a future of plenty of time, spent with XY.Kokuto:
Their relationship IMO was known by both of them from the get go to be short-term.
In my opinion, XL did plan a future with WXL when he accepted the lovers' bug.
The question here is how long that together future would last? Short or long term. In his calculation, and the political landscape of Dai Huang by that time, it was possible for Shen-nong Army to survise a few hundred years more. For the last 300 years when Yellow Emperor and White Emperor ruled Xuan Yuan and Gaoxin respectively, there were balance between the two and Xuan Yuan could not defeat Sheng nong Army. The existence of Sheng-nong Army was benefit for Gaoxin. If Cang Xuan hadn't emerged in the political stage and became king (without XY, it would be almost impossible), Gao Xin would not surrender that fast and CX could not use all of Xuan yuan (plus Gaoxin) strength to defeat Gong Gong's army. Therefore, even in the case XL decided to die with Sheng Nong army, he could still accompany WXL for a lot of time, a few hundred to thousand years (which is still be considered as short-term). That would be quite substantial to compare with WXL's 370 year of age by that time.
Moreover, during the time in QS town, WXL had never mentioned that he only needed life-time accompany. For WXL, he needed someone that he could talk with, shared happiness and sorrow in life etc. And if he could not find long-term accompany, short-term companionship was ok for him. XL could see example in Lao Muc, Chuanxi, Mazi. He could give WXL much longer companionship than those WXL's housemates. And when needed, he could cut-off the bug connection by killing it.
The drama adjusted the moment when XL started the commission for the archery bow much earlier than in the novel. He already started the bow making when they were in QS town. It showed his intention to equip her with protection skill from the beginning of their "love" bug contract. He planned future with WXL but he would also wish WXL to become strong and independent. In their encounter on boat in Middle Plains as "woman" XL with WXL, he told WXL that others who cared for WXL were expecting him, why WXL did not come home. He understood WXL that WXL was a free-minded one, and at that time he didn't know WXL soon became the great princess of Haoling. Such identity completely flipped his plan, thus he was so furious hearing the news of returned princess.
And I think by the end, righteousness is more important for him than love. XY recognised it very early in their relationship. The first time is when she attempted to convince him to betray Gong Gong (Chapter 4). And the second time when she was in Sheng-nong camp due to the medicine shortage. She understood his preference very clearly. Thus, it's the reason why she always reminded herself that XL was CX's enermy, he could not be friend. In her conversation with Yellow Emperor about if someone who was his enermy could be her man, her grandfather told her that she had known the answer in her heart already: if he chose to be Xuan Yuan or CX's enermy, then in his heart, she was not the most important, he could let go. And XY was always afraid of being abandoned by her loved ones. I have planned to write about her scare but still not manage to collect myself yet.
About chapter 37, let's be reasonable, him leaving her alone AND sending fur ball to take her back is a rejection. She clearly understood XL's intention. Yes, she could have refused to leave or even come back after Jing got better, but IMO by not doing any of these, she respected XL's decision.
I'll talk about this in a theoretical sense first. Communication is a two-way street; person A said/acted; person B interprets person A's comment/behaviour and response. Someone without XY's issues may not see XL's action as rejection - maybe he was busy, maybe there's something else going on - why go straight to rejection? Even if they think it's a rejection, another person may want to discuss it so there is no misunderstanding. Communication 101 - clarified don't assume, particularly when it's important to you. XY is insecure and hyper-sensitive to rejection and abandonment so will interpret things along those lines and will choose avoidance and assumptions rather than addressing things.
Secondly, let's accept that XL was rejecting XY and she's accurately read the situation. Does respecting XL's decision automatically involve being all over Jings's? It's XY's pivot back to Jing, that tells me that it's more than just about respecting XL's decision. Either she didn't have any intention of starting a relationship with XL after the 37 years, otherwise, her intention and commitment couldn't withstand the first challenge of her fears. XL rejected her setting off all of XY's insecurity and fears. Jing's unable to live without her is like a liferaft that she clung onto. Once CX told her about his deal with XL she was quick to accept that to be the reason that he saved her, conveniently forgetting all the things that transpired during those 37 years. She did the same pivot back to Jing after the bride's snatch. XY is not capable of being on her own.
It's not only XY's trauma to take into consideration, but also XL's determination. He was the dominant between the two, she never got her way when it came to him, never.
I don't place everything on XY's trauma. What I'm saying is that her trauma plays a part in influencing XL's decision. I agree that between the two, XL is the one with more ability to influence things as he is the clear-sighted one between the two them and he isn't as plagued by trauma and fears as XY is. I don't agree that XL was always unwavering and not open to being influenced.
XL has his commitment to his adopted father and the Shen Nong's Army. I think he had every intention to honour his responsibility and loyalty to them. What he's deciding on is whether to pursue a relationship with XY given that he may not be able to meet the conditions that she set out; conditions that were born out of her trauma.
His pursuit of her all the way to 5 Gods Mountain and his actions outside the Dragon Bones Prison suggested to me that he wanted to pursue their relationship. Her response was essentially that she didn't want to fall in love with him because it would be a fate worse than death. How was XL supposed to think about that statement? That she may love him, but she'd rather not because she's too scared of the uncertainty in their relationship. Too scared that he will die on the battlefield and "abandon" her as her mother did - being abandoned for XY is worse than death. Is this not her trauma talking loud and clear?
After she became a princess and faced with Jing's promise of accompany her forever things changed. They were both torn between the love they had for eachother and their lifetime-long goals.
And what does this tell you about XY? She didn't love Jing at the time and yet she accepted that 15-year promise for a chance of having someone who would never leave her. Her fear of being alone is stronger than love. Not being alone seems more important to XY than love.
If not for XL determination and selfless love, she would have likely ended up throwing her whole life down the drain. XL, on the other hand, stood his ground basically the whole time.
And he stood his ground because he could see over and over again how scared XY was. Every time that she pivots back to Jing affirms to him that XY is desperately afraid of being alone. It might be all well and good when he's still alive and they are together, but what will happen to XY once he's gone? Will she be able to overcome his death and continue with her life or will she be like CX's mother and die with him? How could XL not take all of these into consideration? If XY doesn't have the issues that she does; if XY thinks that life is worth living as long as there are beautiful sights to see instead of needing someone to be with her for those sights to have meaning then maybe XL would have been more open to pursuing their relationship for however long it may last. But XY is XY and at the end of the day she needed a companion that won't ever leave her and this wasn't something that XL could provide.
@Kokuto @blahblah100
I don't think there has to be only one reason for Xiang Liu to accept the transfer of the Lovers' Bugs. In the novel, we don't get any scenes like the one with the donkey meat seller, but XL's dialogue suggests that he at least suspects that they are Lovers Bugs. He agreed to transfer the bugs partly to protect WXL and partly as a way to test WXL's feelings for him. By this point in the story, XL knows his feelings for WXL and he's willing to commit to her, but he's not certain about WXL's feelings for him. If the bugs could not be successfully transferred then he would find another way to remove the bugs and protect WXL's life, but if the transfer is successful then he would achieve both goals.
I don't think XL's acceptance of the Lovers Bugs necessarily means that he was planning on a lifetime with WXL i.e. that he wasn't planning on dying with the Resistance Army. The second conversation that he had with WXL was about the fear of loneliness and the acceptance of temporary companionships to elevate the loneliness. Compared to WXL's human family, XL lives a lot longer. By that point, XL had been with the Resistance Army for (I want to say) 400 years and there were no reasons to think that the political situation would not continue in the same vein for another 400, maybe more years. There is time for him to figure out a way to remove the Lovers Bugs when the time comes for him to die with the Resistance Army. Personally, I think that he was always going to honour his commitment to his adopted father and his comrades. And when he took on the bugs, he thought that WXL was not averse to the "short-term" companionship that they could have together.
WXL returning to her true identity is an obstacle between them, but the bigger obstacle is XY's condition for a man who would always put her first and never leave her side. I'm wondering if XY wasn't forced to return to her identity if XL would have been OK with spending hundreds of years with WXL? Too bad TH doesn't write BL :-).
The ironic thing is XY's return to help CX hastened the ending for XL and the Resistance Army. The other thing is that by the end of the story with 7/9 of his tails gone, Jing's lifespan may not be much longer than the 400 years or so that XL could have offered (and she would have to spend it with Jing :-)). XY may end up alone sooner than she thinks.
I also just realized that in the novel we don't find out about the nature of the Lovers Bugs until halfway through the story and it only gets confirmed by the Voodoo King's half a dozen or so chapters later. If you don't pay attention, it's very easy to miss YaoLiu's love line. I honed in on YaoLiu because I thought they had all the setups of the OTP end-game. Even during book 3, I was wondering how TH was going to turn things around and have YaoLiu ending up together. I cheated and read the epilogue and threw the book across the room. My reaction was like this little guy here....
◇天柳超话杨紫刚才直播我看了全程!最后一个问题是小天为什么选璟,然后主持人特别大声说了句“因为爱他”,杨紫理都没理直接说“因为相柳有国家 美可要当帝王,只有璟会选小天”
杨紫还说“很感谢相柳没有把对小天的感情说出口,因为如果说了,结局可能会不一样”
◇I watched the entire live broadcast of YaoLiu Chao and Yang Zi just now! The last question was why Xiao yao chose Jing, and then the host said loudly, "Because I love him." Yang Zi ignored him and just said,Because Xiang Liu has a country and Gege wants to be the emperor. Only Jing would choose Xiao yao"
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