Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 plor20:

I think the issues with TH adapting mythology and rewriting it shouldn't be a problem, and pple are really making it a bigger deal than it is. We do it to fairy tales and Greek/Roman mythology all the time, and it doesn't dilute or disintegrate the original stories. Actually, TH has done is bring more interest and awareness to Chinese mythology and origin stories.

The issue is that the Chinese government disapproves of perverting historical / mythological characters, because it causes misconceptions of who and what they really are. As such, you see a lot of name changes in characters and places to distance the works from myths and history that they are based on, so that they would not be penalised. 

We have seen this before as well in the drama 风中奇缘 which was adapted from Tong Hua's 大漠谣 Ballad of the Desert. The drama was fully redubbed twice post-production to change most of the character names. For example, the original name of the male lead character was 霍去病 Huo Qubing, a historical general and politician of the Han dynasty, and this was changed to 卫无忌 Wei Wuji. His aunt's name was also changed from its original 卫子夫 Wei Zifu (a historical empress of the Han dynasty) to 万子矜 Wan Zijin.

 liddi:

Gao Xin king

In the 2013 edition of the novel, the Gao Xin king was originally known as 俊帝 Grand Emperor, but changed his title to 白帝 White Emperor a year after he abdicated the throne to Cang Xuan.

In the 2019 edition, the Gao Xin king never had a name change. As such, the implications that were evident in the original text are unfortunately lost:

Thanks for your translations and all those details liddi! 

 liddi:

Wow! When you break it down that way, there are certainly far more similarities between the two dramas than I initially realised!

This concept has been haunting my brain for a while now so I've just had too much time to think about it. ^^" Some of the similarities (like the island motif) only occurred to me after the concept had been stewing in my head for a bit. 

 liddi:

If only the ending were similar too. But then again, would the story and its characters haunt me as much if it had just a conventional happy ending? I don't know.

The fanfic AU concept is particularly compelling to me because it would let me have my cake (the original ending) and eat it too (give XL and XY a happier ending together in an alternate universe). 

 liddi:

Would you consider taking up the mantle of bringing the LYF Healer-esque AU to life? Please do let us know if you ever do so. I am still hoping for the vignette of little Xiao Yao meeting Xiang Liu on Jade Mountain........

I think I could only do it if I did a full rewrite of the whole story with all the details fleshed out properly, which would be... an undertaking to put it mildly. I don't think I have it in me to go that far. And the changes would be so big that the characters wouldn't really be the same characters anymore, which makes the concept a bit less enticing. But if I ever do end up writing it I'll let you know. ^^

 liddi:

YES. 100 times YES. Alternatively, I am still hoping that the S2 actually has someone knocking all stubborn nine heads out so that he can be dragged to the altar, in accordance with Gao Xin king's decree.

Lol. If that doesn't end up happening in S2 and you end up writing a fic for it instead, I'd definitely read it. ^^

 liddi:

If only Xiao Yao were built differently and does everything she can to wear down his defenses, regardless of his attempts to push her away. Especially after she confirms the nature of the bugs that were planted in them both. But then again, we need Xiang Liu to also be built differently, in order for that to actually happen. Hong Jiang, if only you would just agree to surrender and give all of them a chance to live. Gah!

Agreed. 

 liddi:

俊帝 Grand Emperor (Gao Xin Shao Hao's original title in the novel) is slightly different. There is no 俊帝 in mythology, but there is a 帝俊 Emperor Jun (words are reversed), the ancient emperor of heaven described in the early chapters of the Classics of Mountains and Seas, which some scholars take it to refer to the Yellow Emperor.

Thanks to one of the partial translations of Once Promised, I was aware that 黄帝 = Yellow Emperor = Huang Emperor = Huang Di, 炎帝 = Flame Emperor = Yan Emperor = Yan Di, and  俊帝 = Grand Emperor = Jun Emperor = Jun Di, and after a bit of research I knew that they were all figures in classic Chinese mythology, but I didn't realize Jun Emperor / Jun Di / 俊帝 was a reversal of the title used in classical mythology for 帝俊 / Emperor Jun / Di Jun and that "俊帝" was never used in the classics. Thanks for sharing that detail. 

Do you think Tong Hua reversed the title just for consistency with the titles of the other two emperors she decided to use in her story? Or for a deeper reason?

Hi Liddi,

I wonder if TH had to change the corresponding names in Once Promised too? Shao Hao was still Shao Hao in Once Promised?

 Kokuto:

 liddi:
The issue is that the Chinese government disapproves of perverting historical / mythological characters, because it causes misconceptions of who and what they really are. As such, you see a lot of name changes in characters and places to distance the works from myths and history that they are based on, so that they would not be penalised.
Yes, this is a relatively newer edict from the government, I believe.  Not surprising, given how much they want to control the narrative.  But it does curtail historical FICTION, which is what most of what we see on TV and in books is.  Not to mention, history already has veracity problems, given it's the victors who write history. :(

I get the Chinese government's intention. History and national dignity or patriotism plays important role in national idealogy in some asian countries. They were also used as foundation for some political point of view. Thus, many goverments want their people to get  "proper" historic information. 

Due to explosion of internet and entertainment industry in the last decades, more and more xian xie, wuxian or historical costume dramas have been produced. And many of them were based on fictional story. The problem is for young people learning history at school is boring and difficult to remember. The drama can bring historical details to audiences much more esily. Thus ordinary people can get very inaccurate comprehension about the history/myth. 

Moreover, certain Chinese leaders also have more strict policy on this subject. 

 liddi:

In both my physical copies of Once Promised 2019 and Lost You Forever (printed 2023) revised editions, Shao Hao's name is still retained even though other characters have seen name changes.

I have an impression that Huang Di (yellow emperor), Qi Yo and  Zhuan Xu seem to be more specific and hold important role in Chinse myth (with regard to the early history of Chinese people). Thus such names were more protective by the censorship.   

 liddi:

Gong Gong, Jiu Li, Lei Zhu (Huang Di's empress), even Cang Lin (Huang Di's son) saw name changes.

Surprisingly, Shao Hao, Xiang Liu, Yu Jiang, Ru Shou, Ju Mang retained the original names, despite also being found in the same mythology.

I also understand the reasoning and it really comes down to literacy and critical thinking. I feel the pillars of mythology had name changes primarily because they are like the founding fathers. ChiYou and Jiuli, in TH literature were painted with very strong biased from the gods. Honestly for me, it was very hard to stomach as a Hmong/Miao person, even though I understood that it was only fiction. For me, it was the historical baggage and trauma from our own folklore that made TH creative decision to make the God extremely biased towards Jiuli hard.

 ZYHLJ:

When I saw this, I couldn't help but complain in my heart: then why not consider Miao Pu?? She is simply the most suitable candidate, and you don't even have to “perform" desires with her, which saves the audience a lot of embarrassment.

Heh! I told you she was looking for a housemate :-). And she and 17 were living like housemates back in QS Town. Should have just kept that arrangement and saved herself and some of us the eye bleach :-). I blamed it on the author being greedy and having the Lovers Bugs as the plot device. Whenever I watch scenes between these two, I just can't help but think that she's faking it. But the thing is, is she even aware that she's faking it? It's kinda sad when you think about it - faking affection and intimacy. I get this sense of claustrophobia whenever I watch these two. 

 ZYHLJ:

I think Xiao Yao doesn’t understand romantic love at all, but she arrogantly believes that she has seen through it and therefore will definitely have a happier life than her mother's. But she never thought that maybe Ah Heng had never regretted loving her father till the last moment.

Xiao Yao has a very immature outlook on love that's cloaked in being "wise" and "jaded". She blames her mother, grandmother's and aunty's unhappiness on the men in their lives - specifically being in love with the wrong type of men, without considering - like you said - how they actually sees their choices. She sees their lives as tragic, but does she ever think that lying to yourself, never daring to dream an strived for what you truly want and instead settling for a "good enough" life with a companion can be seen as its own tragedy?

 ZYHLJ:

And, yes, there will be a day in the rest of her long life when she will clearly realize what she has missed...

 ZYHLJ:

Xiao Yao doesn’t even have this option anymore, because she has already "sold" the rest of her life to Jing, I can only wish her the "safety" she wanted.

To me, this is one of the tragedy of Xiao Yao's life. She played it safe; too scared to dream and risk. It's understandable given what she'd gone through, but that is the tragedy of her trauma. And when you phrased it as she "sold" the rest of her life to Jing in exchange for that sense of safety, it makes me feel simultaneously sad and it makes me shivers. 

My opinion on the YaoJing relationship is that XY exhanged her freedom for a false sense of security with someone who was happy to "caught and trapped" her for his own benefits. It's doubly sad because she allowed herself to be trap because it makes her feel safe. There are a lot of imagery surrounding this relationship that makes me think of predator and prey - the Dragon Bone prison with that 15 years promise; the spider-web; the parallel with the 8-tails fox. During the Plum Forest Assaination, Jing;s thought before the flame consumed both of them was that no-matter where XY escaped to, he would chase her. That imagery was stark - she can't escape him even if she wants to because he will hunt her down. It creeped me out. 

 ZYHLJ:

I suddenly remembered the famous line in "Ashes of Time": "At that time, I thought I won, but one day I looked in the mirror, and suddenly realized that I had actually lost. In my best years, the person I loved most was not by my side."

One of my favourites. So many classic HK stars. Leslie Cheung, Brigitte Lin, Tony Leung. And yes, there's no "if only" and "what ifs" - by the time you realized and lamented, it will all be too late. Best to be as true to yourself as you can and cherished love while you have it, because everything will just be Ashes of Time.

 H19279:

I have an impression that Huang Di (yellow emperor), Qi Yo and Zhuan Xu seem to be more specific and hold important role in Chinse myth (with regard to the early history of Chinese people). Thus such names were more protective by the censorship.

I think these characters are pseudo historical, rather than straight out mythological.  They are legendary, but made 'historical' as "ancestors" of various people and dynasties -- kind of like King Arthur or Aeneas.

 liddi:

Surprisingly, Shao Hao, Xiang Liu, Yu Jiang, Ru Shou, Ju Mang retained the original names, despite also being found in the same mythology.

Aren't these characters are more supernatural and mythological, than pseudo historical?  I mean, they are gods and monsters.

 HeadInTheClouds:

19 hours ago
 ZYHLJ:
When I saw this, I couldn't help but complain in my heart: then why not consider Miao Pu?? She is simply the most suitable candidate, and you don't even have to “perform" desires with her, which saves the audience a lot of embarrassment.
Heh! I told you she was looking for a housemate :-). And she and 17 were living like housemates back in QS Town. Should have just kept that arrangement and saved herself and some of us the eye bleach :-). I blamed it on the author being greedy and having the Lovers Bugs as the plot device. Whenever I watch scenes between these two, I just can't help but think that she's faking it. But the thing is, is she even aware that she's faking it? It's kinda sad when you think about it - faking affection and intimacy. I get this sense of claustrophobia whenever I watch these two. 

The problem with XY (not WXL) is she wanted to settle her life after she was back to woman form and somehow fulfilled her responsibility of helping CX (especially after CX became King). She felt like she had suffered enough in life, she was tired; even she could afford to be free for some more time, eventually she needed a house to live a simple, peaceful life. We can see/understand some from her dream in chapter 27:

Xiao Yao ran away as fast as she could and in a second she ran from Qing Qiu to Qing Shui Town. Xiao Yao jumped in the river and swam towards the vast blue ocean. She could see endless horizons and the joy of swimming freely, but she was so so tired! Where could she go in this entire world? Fang Feng Bei appeared on the surface and he sat on an all white clam shell smiling at her with his black hair flying in the breeze. Xiao Yao swam towards him but in a second his hair turned all white and he became Xiang Liu coldly staring at her. White clam shell, all white Xiang Liu, it was like an ice mountain floating on the ocean surface.

The black hair him, the white hair him, closer and further away……Xiao Yao suddenly turned and swam towards land, as she swam her tears tumbled down like rain……

when she was in male form, she just wanted companion and indeed YSQ was like housemate, or house assistant in her view. We have talked so much about the 15 year promise which basically a kind of transaction that Jing would return her YSQ in exchange of not letting any man into her heart. No further romantic love or commitment was mentioned if the contract was executed successfully. There were a lot of uncertainty: WXL did not know if she could get her original appearance back (then would she switch to "fake" female appearance to keep being WXL?); what would she treat YSQ (as spouse or housemate as it used to be in QS town?) if Jing had managed to be YSQ. Of couse, if WXL became woman and she wanted to live in the same house with a man, traditionally she would have to marry him or force him to be her servant. 

As the story progressed, WXL got her identity and appearance restored and becoming princess. Her choice for her own life and companion become less: 

Xiao Yao slowly said “I am too afraid of having and losing, so I would rather not have at all. Unless there is a man who, no matter faced with any choice, will always pick me first, who will never abandon me no matter what reason, then I will be willing to spend the rest of my life with him.”

The Yellow Emperor said “That’s very hard.”

Xiao Yao smiled “I know it’s hard which is why I don’t think about any man. I’m too scared of falling in and not being able to save myself…..” Xiao Yao sighed “Even if I have a bit of stirring, I do my best to rein it in.” (Chapter 16)

XY had tried to live on her own with Miao Pu and San Hu (Coral) in Ying Province for 13 month, opening her clinic there. It seems that she could have such life for some time. However, I wonder if she still suffered from loneliness. Ah Nian and Xing Yue was closer to her than Miao Pu. However, she still felt distance and lonely when staying with them. XY liked talking. Throughout the novel, there were just a few people that she could talked and share her story: XL> CX>Jing=Yellow Emperor. As time passed, the longer she lived in noble life, the more Jing could understand and share with XY's chit chat. As YSQ, he actually just listened but could not understand or anticipated to her story. So, I can understand XY's choice of Jing to Miao Pu as companion. 

One more reason that she needed Jing is to supress her feeling for another man who she always kept hiding deep down her heart. Miao Fu or Left Ear could not help her with such.  She knew that she had a bit of stirring for XL, she kept reminding that he was CX's enermy but she still hung around and protected FFB after knowing his real identity. Absolute distancing from XL/FFB seems imposible for her. Taking Jing is her solution to restrain her real desire.