Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

@liddi

The less that is said about BBJX 2, the better. That was a blatant money grab and was a disaster on every level. It's also an excellent illustration of your second point about the importance of a good script. A good script with strong, interesting characters and well-done character and relationship development is crucial for my enjoyment of a drama. No matter how much I like a particular actor, if the quality of the script is not there, I don't often finish watching. I shared your concerns about the second season. Changing the order of scenes alone, would change the feel of the story let alone leaving out/changing key events in the novel. There is only so much TJC's can do with his performance if  it's not supported by the script. We need a prayer circle.

There is a lot of arguments about who is the male lead in the story. This got me thinking about your comment earlier about typically preferring the considerate second male lead to the "bad boy" male lead. It's interesting because Xiang Liu and XL/XY fit more with the conventional male lead/end game set-up. The antagonistic relationship, the link from the Lover's Bugs, the physical intimacy (the blood sucking), right down to the "we are enemy so I can't be with you" trope all screamed end-game. Jing is the character that more closely resembled the devoted, kind and considerate 2nd male lead. Usually, XY and XL would have found a way to be together at the end, except Tong Hua decided to torture and ripped our hearts out. Would we have like XL as much if the story have not ended the way it did?

@nathsketch

Yours aversion to Jing is highly entertaining. You're really ride-or-die for out favourite 9 heads serpent :-). You know what the funny thing is? I don't really mind Jing in the novel. Probably because he's barely present and barely left an impression. Some of his actions got major side-eyed and eye-rolled from me, but overall all, I get that he's a good person and understand why XY is happy to be with him in the end (whether this is actually a happy ending for XY as a character is a different story). 

Jing in the drama, on the other hand - annoys the crap out of me. The visual of constant puppy-dog eyes, sadness and being on the brink of tears give is this air of matyrdom, woe-is-me to him. It's really off-putting to me. Every time he's on screen, the phrase that pops into my head is "get off the cross, someone else needs the wood". If the leak second season is true, they are making changes to the character so he isn't just XY's "boyfriend", but I don't think that will change how I sees him. It's too ingrained now (the DW's fans are going to kill me now. Lol. I really knows how to make friends around here).

My prefer ending for XY is similar to yours, but for different reason. Due to her past, XY's fears rejection and abandonment. Her way of dealing with the fear is to make sure that she's surrounds by people who can't or won't leave her. Jing fits both of these requirements. This is not a healthy way of dealing with her fear and it's not a healthy way to have relationships. Her relationship with Jing essentially accomodates her fears. This is all well and good as long as the status quo holds. What happened if Jing got sick of the role that he's expected to play? What happened if Jing dies? Because XY never actually learn to come to terms with her fears and learn more healthy ways of being, she's going to spiral. This is not to say that XY  can't be with Jing and have this sort of character development. It's just that, the end of the novel as is, XY as a character haven't really address this core issue. So I don't really sees it as a HE for XY.

So am I the only one who thinks Xiao Zhan would have slayed the role too? He was great în the untamed, gray anti-hero roles suits him best and he also has this thing with smiling with the mouth while crying with his eyes. I can easily see him playing XL, really. 

About my perfect ending for LYF, I honestly would have prefered the whole tragedy package, as once promised. Anyone seen I'm sorry, I love you? Very old school korean drama, but it did have a perfect tragic ending, IMO. 

https://youtu.be/O3cULJTwCnQ?si=p8vKs6Gr1sAzVb9P

@liddi

"Did you mean that you would have preferred a tragic ending for Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu, revisiting her parents' fate? Or that you liked the novel ending, as is?" 

Tragic ending for both of them, definetely, but I have a thing for this types of endings, it is all or nothing for me. 

https://youtu.be/AoVEFGUtDhU?si=PMnAgX_70vigAzIy

"Would you believe I have never completed any work of Xiao Zhan's? I did start The Untamed, but was never drawn to the story enough to finish it. Might give his works a try and see what it is I missed. Any recommendations apart from the Untamed" 

I have only seen the untamed, but belive me, it is worth watching. Have you seen past episode 13?  If not, than I would highly recommend to try again, you are really really missing out. 

@liddi

Once promise is for sure my cup of tea, I just love this type of romance stories where they make you guess and/or wait untill the very end and right before the tragedy strikes you finally get the answer you craved to hear all along. But the again, I do have a small dose of masochism and it is easier for me to see beauty în sadness sometimes, but I understand why this is not for everyone. On a side note, I am almost done reading ballad of desert and I did notice that the author doesn't shy away when it comes to go all the way regarding intimate stuff and that makes me apreciate her refusal of giving Jing the wedding night în lyf even more. 

Thank you all for your replies. So it is actually the total opposite from what I believe, that there are more Yaojing‘s shopper in asian fans and more Yaoliu‘s in international fans. I came to my false conclusion because I‘ve read that the most touted reason Jingers hate XL is his abusive behaviour to XY so I wondered if that‘s due to western perception and expectation on how women should be treated nowadays and the trend of woman ‚s empowerement, which @Nahtsketch very accurately pointed out here.

‚But then, even without taking Xiang Liu into consideration, Jing's behavior started bothering me. The fact that he's made to look like this super sweet and kind guy with his unwavering devotion should never be a reason for me to dislike his character, but it did back then and it does even more now.

Because when it matters the most, he's not able to protect anyone, not even himself. The Jingers often praise the fact that he endured all that torture at the hands of his brother, and he now carries all those scars (psychological and physical ones), but he remained good through it all and never sought revenge, so he's this ideal personification of forgiveness that should be endlessly revered. Okay, that's all fine and dandy, but this was not a mere spat between siblings and they were not living in 2023. His inability to stand up for himself keeps getting him into trouble. People (his own family) keep abusing him and he does nothing. His saintly personality is absurd and unrealistic, even more so than a 9-headed serpent demon. It's inhuman. So being extremely kind in this very cruel world, with that awful family of his, and in the midst of that internecine war is simply dangerous. If it wasn't for others doing the heavy lifting, he could never have gotten his happy ending. God forbid a new war breaks out. XY will have to do the protecting part. How modern, female empowerment, yay!

The novel says he's extremely intelligent and cunning as a fox lol, not to mention an excellent businessman, but do we see that being put to good use when it matters the most?

So it bothers me to have this kind of emasculated dude be considered the new ideal. It feels like women can only shine when the dude is turned into a eunuch. I think the loss of his tails is the most apt metaphor for this. I haven't even touched on his stalkerish behavior nor the "I can't even disentangle myself from this unwanted engagement". Others are literally fighting wars but he can't even fight his own darn family.‘

And also because I thought that westeners tends to use their 2023 sensibilities in judging the character more than asians (no offence meant, btw), whereas asian fans who are more familiar with xianxia‚s world would have better understanding on where XL is coming from. I come from a southeast asian country but live in Europe now. I grew up watching cdrama and have chinese ancestors,  but no one in my family can speak chinese sadly,  because my family has been living in my homecountry for generations and mixed with the locals. Such is the power of XL that he can touch everyone hearts despite cultural/language etc. differences ?. 

I love XL because TJC portrayal and I can’t imagine anyone else playing him. But I also don’t really watch Cdramas so I don‘t really know, who good chinese actors in these age range nowadays are.  From some Cdrama I watched, only Deng Lun moved me in AoL with his performance there and now TJC. I’ve tried watched some Yang Yang’s drama because he’s very popular and handsome, but his acting bored me and I dropped his dramas after a couple of episodes. I find him to emote better through his dance actually, cos I saw his Dandelion dance and like it very much. Mark Chao in the famous Eternal Love was also good but I don‘t connect with the story emotionally because I don‘t like the FL. I only cheering for HE because the ML loves her so much?‍♀️.  Other hot handsome actors like Xu Kai, Dylan Wang etc was serviceable enough in their popular role but doesn‘t left me with deep impression and made me interested in watching them acting in other dramas.

@HeadInTheClouds

"It's interesting because Xiang Liu and XL/XY fit more with the conventional male lead/end game set-up. The antagonistic relationship, the link from the Lover's Bugs, the physical intimacy (the blood sucking), right down to the "we are enemy so I can't be with you" trope all screamed end-game. Jing is the character that more closely resembled the devoted, kind and considerate 2nd male lead."

This is spot on. Everything about XL and his relationship with XY screams main lead/s to me. Jing always gave me second lead vibe, still does, even now, long after I finished reading the novel. I swear beside a few scenes here and there I can't remember much about his doings, he was always în the background for me, and that îs definetely not because I wasn't paying attention to him, but I am convinced that that was the author intention. There was more talk about Jing în the novel then he was actually present,  my view on Jing is build on XY view on him, the author IMO didn't made him a memorabile independent character who shines on his own on purpose. XL on the other hand was built to shine and there is no doubt în my mind about that. There was a line în the novel about short term happiness and companionship and I firmly belive that was what the author chose to narrate în lyf, while also setting the grounds for the long happily ever after, but that was not what this story was about. IMO XL is the main, lyf starts with XY, but it ends with XL.