Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 luv2bafangurl:

This is interesting. can you please elaborate more about courtesy. What is it mean exactly? Like politeness and giving the others  ‚face‘ even when they are actually in the wrong as to save their dignity in public? If yes, then it‘s really interesting why Confucius put it as more important than righteousness

Actually I don't know the right word for "courtesy" in that motto for Man. I just use google translate for that concept. According to Bing, that concept that I call courtesy means "an important aspect of human morality and behavior. It is considered a code of ethics and behavior that Heaven (Heaven) prescribes for humans, using it to know what should be done and what should not be done ". It also require people to follow some custom/traditions, law, ethical norm. 

The chinese letter for is "禮 " someone who know chinise may know the equivalent word in english. Does it close to "ethicality" or propriety  ?

 Kokuto:

 I still maintain, he didn't intend to die with the army when he took the PLB.

Thanks to Elise, I now know that PLB means poisonous love bug. When do you think XL intended to die? I thought it was from the beginning, before he met XY. But, I could be wrong, yet again.

 H19279:

Actually I don't know the right word for "courtesy" in that motto for Man. I just use google translate for that concept. According to Bing, that concept that I call courtesy means "an important aspect of human morality and behavior. It is considered a code of ethics and behavior that Heaven (Heaven) prescribes for humans, using it to know what should be done and what should not be done ". It also require people to follow some custom/traditions, law, ethical norm. 

Someone who know chinese may know this letter and maybe the equivalent word in english. Does it close to "ethicality" ?

Would you mind posting the five words in Chinese (loyalty, etc.)? I'd like to put it through the online MDBG Chinese Dictionary or Pleco and see what comes up.

 MTH123:

Thanks to Elise, I now know that PLB means poisonous love bug. When do you think XL intended to die? I thought it was from the beginning, before he met XY. But, I could be wrong, yet again.

I subscribe to the description in the alleged casting sheet, that once he met XY, he could see a future for them.  I also don't think he would put XY in a position where she would die or be left alone, while he died on the battlefield.  Of course, once she revealed her identity, that future went out the window.

He always struck me as man with hope who appreciated life and the world, so I don't think dying on the battlefield was his end goal.  It may have been a far away consideration, but it became a serious possibility when the Haolin Emperor stepped down and gave Haolin to CX.  The political situation changed radically, and the time left for the army's survival disappeared, along with their allies and provisions.  After that, he really couldn't give XY any more chances, and he had to get rid of the PLB.

 nathsketch:

I think you mean cursed Ru Shuo, right? LOL

YES

 MTH123:

Regarding the former, I think it was XY trying to accept XL’s situation at face value, even though she had also called it pathetic, which is what it really was. Since very early on in the story, XY didn’t want XL to die, told him to be careful, and continued to help him.

I agree that XY did not want XL to die from very early on in the story. But I think it's possible for XY to simultaneously not want XL to die and to also understand how the camaraderie that he had with his fellow soldiers could be so strong that he would choose to never abandon Gong Gong and those soldiers, to even choose to die rather than abandon that camaraderie. Even if that wasn't an ending that she wanted for him. 

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Chapter 35:

Xiao Yao was silent before suddenly asking, “Xiang Liu, why did you pick Gong Gong? Because he’s your adoptive father?” Xiao Yao didn’t know how she had the guts to ask him this question, probably because Xiang Liu didn’t seem like Xiang Liu tonight.

“Not just because he’s my adoptive father, there are also all those soldiers I fought along with and watched them die. We drank together, we went to battle together, we picked up our fallen brethren’s bodies…” Xiang Liu looked over at the altar, “For hundreds of years, do you know how many of my fellow soldiers I’ve had to personally cremate?”

Xiao Yao couldn’t imagine, but she understood what Xiang Liu felt. Her Fourth Uncle could have survived that day, and he did love Fourth Aunt and Zhuan Xu, but he chose to die alongside his soldiers. In this world there was camaraderie so strong that one would die rather than abandon it.

Xiang Liu laughed and pointed at his head. “I’ve lost count, but they are all here.”

Xiao Yao buried her head in her lap and grew silent. She felt her heart all jumbled and she didn’t know if it was for Xiang Liu or for herself.

 MTH123:

I don’t think they would have been abandoning their vows, principles and identities. Their original cause was to fight for their people in Sheng Nong Kingdom.

If we look at some of the scenes that describe Qi Yo (Chi You / Chi Chen), his blood oath, his relationship with his brothers-in-arms, and their mentality, I think they provide a lot of insight about the same things for Gong Gong and his soldiers. 

Qi Yo and Gong Gong were both Great Generals of Sheng Nong before it was conquered. 

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Once Promised Volume 2, Chapter 18:

Mei was the impetuous one and immediately flew forward and blocked the path of Qi Yo and Xuan Yuan Ba. His face was bright red in anger and he railed at Qi Yo, “I thought it was just a rumor, who knew it was true! No wonder neither side could etch out a victory all this time! How can you answer to everyone following you? How can you face the Sheng Nong soldiers who followed you to their deaths? How can you face Yu Wang who treated you as an equal with such love?”

...

Ah Heng stared at Chi, Mei, Wang, Liang. “You guys have followed Qi Yo for the past hundreds of years. You know what he’s like and you’re still questioning him? If he wanted to sell you out then Xuan Yuan would have defeated Sheng Nong by now. He is willing to shoulder the bad reputation and for the entire world to hate him, did he do it for himself? It’s a shame he treated you guys like real brothers!” Her voice shook with her pride in Qi Yo and her desolation at their fate. Whether it was the Xuan Yuan or the Sheng Nong troops, everyone present felt the sadness and impossibility of life.

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Once Promised Volume 2, Chapter 19:

Shao Hao’s heart thundered. He knew how deeply Ah Heng loved Qi Yo, yet she just gave the order to kill on sight and was so calm about it. Worry bubbled forth and he quickly asked, “Are you sure? You know Qi Yo is like a mountain peak, either he stands proudly and strong or else he completely topples. He will never kneel down and surrender. Do you have the determination to kill Qi Yo? Once this battle starts there is no going back.”

“If the battle doesn’t start, is there another way to go?”

Shao Hao had no answer, for each day the Yellow Emperor was alive he would never give up his ambition to conquer the Middle Plains. And as long as Qi Yo was alive, he would never allow the Yellow Emperor to conquer Sheng Nong and destroy what Yu Wang built.

...

Qi Yo did everything he possibly could already and had nothing to feel sorry about or regretful for. He lived up to the promise he made that day to the Flame Emperor and Yu Wang and he never let down the eighty-one brothers-in-arms who swore the blood oath with him that day to protect Sheng Nong.

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Qi Yo treated his subordinates like real brothers. 

Qi Yo and his 81 brothers-in-arms swore a blood oath to protect Sheng Nong. Not "the people of Sheng Nong". Sheng Nong itself. 

Qi Yo also separately made an individual promise (by the Flame Emperor's death bed) to always help Yu Wang. Shao Hao observed that he would never allow the Yellow Emperor to destroy what Yu Wang built. 

If Qi Yo failed to keep his blood oath, that would also mean letting down his 81 brothers-in-arms and all of the soldiers who willingly followed him, including those that followed him to their deaths. 

Gong Gong was likely equally close with his subordinates. He even adopted XL as his son.

Gong Gong likely made the same blood oath to protect Sheng Nong, and each of his soldiers likely made the same blood oath too.

If Gong Gong failed to keep his blood oath, that would be viewed as letting down all of his soldiers who willingly followed him for hundreds of years, including every soldier who willingly followed him to their deaths. 

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LYF also touches on the soldiers' mindset more directly.

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Chapter 5:

Within the flames of the fire, the faces of the men showed their familiarity with death, but in the mournful sounds of the song they sang it conveyed their deep sorrow. Their singing wasn’t in unison, flitting in and out, as they wondered about their cause and what it all meant in the long run.

It was true that the Yellow Emperor forcibly took over the lands of Sheng Nong. But the Sheng Nong Kingdom was now no more and the people living there only wanted a peaceful life to live. They don’t care who the Emperor is, and even began to speak warmly of the Yellow Emperor’s intelligence and generosity. The people don’t care about the remaining Sheng Nong soldiers who refuse to surrender. Thousands of years later, their determination won’t be remembered.

Only by giving up and bowing low could they get a sweet wife, a cute kid, perhaps even wealth given by the Emperor. But they still persisted to cling on to their belief. To hold onto something most people no longer cared about. To risk their lives for it.

The wheels of history were already turning but they remained stubbornly rooted in place, with their arms outstretched trying to turn the wheels back. But they were people that time has forgotten, they are going against the tide, and they were destined to be obliterated. Xiao Liu knew they were foolish, and felt pity for them, but he also couldn’t help but feel respect towards them.

In this moment, Xiao Liu suddenly realized why his last mocking question to Xiang Liu about why he worked for Gong Gong doing pointless things, to suggest that he betray Gong Gong and throw his lot with the Yellow Emperor, that question would cause Xiang Liu to fly into a dark rage. In this world, there was a determination that may be destroyed, may be annihilated, but can never be mocked!

Xiang Liu slowly walked back with the sorrowful song lingering behind him. Xiao Liu leaned against the door and watched him walk in the blood red sunset, his white hair and white robe still pristine and untouched. Xiang Liu stopped in front of Xiao Liu, his cold gaze containing a measure of disdain, but it wasn’t clear if it was meant for the world or for himself.

Xiao Liu suddenly bowed. “I wanted to apologize for what I said last time.”

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Chapter 7:

Xiao Liu was silent and looked up at the crescent moon like a biscuit with a bite taken out of it. After a long time, he asked, “What is General Gong Gong like? To lead to a demon like you giving him your allegiance?”

“He’s an idiot!” Xiang Liu quieted down for a while and then said, “He is a pathetic idiot. He leads a bunch of idiots, doing something pathetic.”

Xiao Liu said, “The most pathetic one is you! They are all willing to do it, they don’t think they are idiots. They think they are doing something they would be proud of to tell their family in the grave. To let their descendants be proud. They are happy to go down in a blaze of glory. But you – you mock it, yet you do it.”

“Who let me have nine-heads? Of course it gets complicated and contradictory.”

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Chapter 18:

She whipped around and couldn’t control herself anymore and shouted “Are you insane? This is Little Zhu Rong’s residence, if you’re discovered this time I can’t save you again!”

Fang Feng Bei smiled. “This isn’t Xuan Yuan Castle, this is the Middle Plains.”

Xiao Yao was taken aback. Yes, he’s right! This was the Middle Plains, Sheng Nong Kingdom’s original territory. Even though the Yellow Emperor took over rule of the Middle Plains, but the people still respected General Gong Gong and his loyalty to Sheng Nong in refusing to surrender to Xuan Yuan. Even Little Zhu Rong, he was a descendant of Sheng Nong royalty and was likely secretly loyal to the resistance army. The Gods of the Middle Plains might not openly support the resistance army against the Yellow Emperor, but they also wouldn’t help the Yellow Emperor to catch the resistance army.

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Chapter 21:

Xiao Yao looked up at the fireworks and thought that it must be just as beautiful right now in Qing Qiu. Jing was likely with his grandmother and watching fireworks with a lot of people as fireworks exploded in the sky. Right now in the mountains outside of Qing Shui Town, it was likely pitch black and freezing cold. The soldiers would be sitting around fires drinking coarse wine and singing national anthems. Xiang Liu was likely dressed all in white and accompanying General Gong Gong as they walked through each and every encampment.

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Chapter 22:

“He wanted one of Sheng Nong Mountain’s peaks.”

“What do you mean?”

“I asked Xiang Liu the same thing and he said that all the resistance soldiers following General Gong Gong are unable to forget their homeland but are willing to fight for their cause. If they died they would still not be able to be buried in their homeland. Xiang Liu asked that if one day I were to become the Xuan Yuan Emperor, then I was to carve out one of Sheng Nong Mountain’s peaks as a sacred land and then all the dead resistance army soldiers who were cremated could have their ashes brought back and buried in the Sheng Nong Mountain they long for.”

“Did you agree?”

Zhuan Xu sighed. “Even a little peak in Sheng Nong Mountain is still a peak in Sheng Nong Mountain! I know this is a big deal so I can’t readily agree. But I also couldn’t say no, and it wasn’t just because of you. It was because I also want to give those men a place to rest peacefully. They are my enemies on the battlefield and we do our best to kill each other, but I respect their fight!”

Xiao Yao said nothing.

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Chapter 29:

Pushing open the tattered wooden door, inside was a rundown house with an one-armed old man holding a giant ladle standing in front of a big pot. He glanced at Fang Feng Bei and smiled “What a rarity, hundreds of visits and it’s the first time you brought a friend. And a girl to boot.”

...

The old man sat down on a wood chopping stool and drank while talking with Xiang Liu. Xiao Yao wasn’t able to understand all they were talking about, other than it was about people they both knew and who were dead now. The old man’s attitude was very placid as was Xiang Liu, but in this soft muggy Summer night Xiao Yao suddenly felt the sorrow of having friends pass away.

...

The one-armed man stared at Xiao Yao and suddenly asked, “You are the daughter of the Xuan Yuan Princess?”

Xiao Yao turned to the old man “Yes.”

“Your dad is…..”

Li Jie Chang just called out that she was the Gao Xing Princess, didn’t the one-armed old man hear that? Xiao Yao quizzically answered, “The Gao Xing Grand Emperor.”

The one-armed old man stared intently at Xiao Yao before downing all the wine in his bowl and then launching into a song. His song was sad and plaintive, singing about the fallen Sheng Nong kingdom and the sorrow of the soldiers fighting.

Xiao Yao listened intently and suddenly remembered the blood red sunset when Xiang Liu was dressed all in white and walked towards her from a burning funeral pyre of dead Sheng Nong soldiers.

Li Jie Chang yelled, “Uncle, stop your drunken craziness!”

The old man kept singing so Li Jie Chang shoved him into the house and nervously said to Xiao Yao, “The old man has low tolerance but loves drinking. When he gets crazy he loves to sing songs he heard from places…..he only has one arm now and his legs can barely walk, he’s already useless…..”

Xiao Yao said “I only came to eat. Once I walk out this door, I’ll forget everything.”

Li Jie Chang was relieved and listened to the singing from inside the house and sadly added “My Uncle isn’t a bad guy, in fact he’s too good of a guy which is why he….can’t forget.”

Xiao Yao suddenly realized that when Li Jie Chang was talking about Fang Feng Bei earlier, all the things he was saying were about Xiang Liu. Did he know Fang Feng Bei was Xiang Liu?

That meant Jing also knew now that Bei was Xiang Liu.

...

Xiang Liu stared at Xiao Yao and she avoided his piercing gaze and asked “Who was that old man selling donkey meat?”

“He used to be a subordinate of Qi Yo and one of the survivors in the final battle in Yi Province. Carrying all the memories of those who perished, it’s easier just to have died.” Xiang Liu smiled “Actually, to a General, the best ending is to die on the battlefield.”

It was a warm Summer night but Xiao Yao suddenly felt her entire body turn cold in an instant.

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Chapter 46:

Xiao Yao raised her silver bow and pulled back an arrow aimed at Xiang Liu. “Gong Gong lives for his fallen kingdom and stubbornly refuses to surrender, that’s something admirable! But people cannot fight against the inevitable, now Xuan Yuan, Sheng Nong, and Gao Xing have all united, each of the tribes, clans, and families are coexisting peacefully. If you kill Zhuan Xu then the entire vast wilderness will be launched into disarray and war will begin again. Hundreds of thousands of people will be swept up in the devastation. Is this what Gong Gong wants in order to cling to his loyalty, be true to himself at the cost of the peace of the world?”

Xiang Liu smiled a sardonic grin. “If I kill Zhuan Xu, then it means the vast wilderness isn’t yet united. How can you say we’re going up against the inevitable?”

“You know in your heart whether what I’m saying is right or not!” 

 MTH123:

Their original cause was to fight for their people in Sheng Nong Kingdom. This cause was won by CX, who made the world a better place. At the point that they were fighting CX’s military, they were only fighting for their desire to die on the battlefield, as if that were still an honorable thing to do under their circumstances. It wasn’t. Other than having no cause to fight for anymore, they caused people in CX’s military to die and get injured only because of their desire to die on the battlefield. How is this okay? It isn’t.

Although I agree that it feels deeply wrong that so many Xuan Yuan soldiers had to die fighting against the resistance army after Sheng Nong was already conquered, the person who bears the greatest responsibility for their deaths is not Gong Gong or the soldiers of the resistance army. It is the Yellow Emperor.

The Yellow Emperor attacked Sheng Nong without provocation to fulfill his own ambition to rule the whole world. In doing so, he started an unnecessary war that caused the deaths of thousands of soldiers on both sides and created countless grieving widows and orphans. He caused an entire kingdom (a national identity with its own proud history, its own legendary rulers, its own customs and traditions, and its own history) to cease to exist. The conquered Sheng Nong people were forced to take on the identity of their conquerors (becoming people of Xuan Yuan) and to bow to the Emperor responsible for causing so much unnecessary desolation. An Emperor who would favor the original Xuan Yuan people over the conquered Sheng Nong people, who would rule them from Xuan Yuan's capital. 

CX is the Yellow Emperor's successor and carried on the Yellow Emperor's legacy. He started an unnecessary war with Gao Xing, again causing thousands more soldiers to die and creating more widows and orphans unnecessarily. CX chose to treat the people of the kingdoms he and the Yellow Emperor conquered fairly, which made him less terrible than he could have been. But he was still a conqueror. On the whole, I would argue that he did not make the world a better place.

I don't blame the resistance army for continuing to fight against their conquerors. I blame the Yellow Emperor for starting his campaign of conquest in the first place.  

 MTH123:

Also, when XL went to save XY’s life, he could have asked for anything from CX. For example, he could have asked CX to leave Gong Gong’s army alone and give them a village on a Sheng Nong mountain to live in and govern. But, he only asked for a burial place. When I first read that in the book I was stunned. There were so many things that XL could have asked CX for, but the only possibility for Gong Gong’s army was to die on the battlefield. I couldn’t even believe this.

CX was going to make Sheng Nong Mountain the capital of his kingdom when he took the throne. Before Sheng Nong was conquered, the Flame Emperors ruled Sheng Nong from Sheng Nong Mountain. CX could not possibly give up part of Sheng Nong Mountain to be a place where his enemies could create an autonomous city-state.

And even if XL had asked for it and CX was willing to give it, Gong Gong would not have accepted it.

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Chapter 46:

One Spring day, the Black Emperor sent Little Zhu Rong to pay a visit to Gong Gong and request his surrender and joining of the kingdom. Gong Gong refused. Within the span of three months, the Black Emperor sent Little Zhu Rong three more times to see Gong Gong, each time with ever greater rewards and incentive. He even promised to make Gong Gong a regional King with his own armed forces, and allow him to govern the entire territory around Qing Shui Town. But Gong Gong turned it all down.

In the dog days of Summer, the Black Emperor issued an official proclamation to exterminate the Sheng Nong Resistance Army led by Gong Gong, sending soldiers North to battle.

 Kokuto:

XL did give XY a chance.  I believe he repeatedly gave her chances, though I may be alone in that theory / belief.  He gave her a chance on the beach on Haolin.  He gave her a chance when he broke up her marriage to Feng Long.

I don't really see either of these encounters as ones where XL really presented himself as a potential romantic partner, with XY failing to take that chance. 

For the beach scene, XL manipulated Ah Nian into pushing XY off a cliff and into the ocean. Then he pulled her into the depths until she was on the verge of drowning and tried to force her to "kiss" him for air. 

I posted about the manner in which XL stopped XY's marriage with Feng Long, and how he interreacted with her afterwards, before so I won't re-hash it all. But he definitely was not presenting himself as an alternative romantic option. He was cold and harsh and kept reminding her about the promise she made and how she owed him. 

 MTH123:

Would you mind posting the five words in Chinese (loyalty, etc.)? I'd like to put it through the online MDBG Chinese Dictionary or Pleco and see what comes up.

忠 : loyalty
孝: Filialness
禮: morality, ethicality
義: righteousness
信: creditability, faithfulness

Confucianism was founded in ~ 500 BC. The philosophy has been evolved throughout history. I think the current Confucianism has new approaches albeit using the conventional concepts.  

@MengXiang

"Yes, I am very interested in knowing how can we determine who XY loves more. I am off the camp she would throw caution to the wind if he expressed himself because she went against her nature many times when he didn't confess and even pushed her away. The fact is he didn't so based on current state how do we go about determining who she actually loves more."

I belive windiaaa posted something interesting a while ago, about some parallels between XY-Jing and Tian Er-Chuanzi and XY-XL and AhHeng and QiYo. I can't find her post right now, but I belive it is interesting because I, too thought their dynamics are very similar and the book itself hints to that. Now to say AhHeng's love is deeper than TianEr's  it's difficult, even though at first glance I am inclined to think so. I am bias, but not really because I like XL more, but because this is the feeling I had while reading the novel. XY love for Jing seems more selfish and for the most part conditional and honestly there is no doubt în my mind that Jing loves her way more than she loves him, but by the end of the novel  I agree that she did grow to love him deeply. On contrast, XY love for XL feels more natural and honest, she loves him without having any expectations, no hopes and no plans for the future, I am not that sure that XY would have feel the same for Jing if he was also his family's enemy. 

There is no doubt în my mind that this discussion she had with Jing în chapter 4 îs foreshadowing their relationship too. 

"Xiao Liu leaned on his crutches and watched them from a distance with Shi Qi beside him. Xiao Liu started nattering “This is actually an interesting gamble. Tian Er doesn’t believe Chuan Zi will want to be with her forever so right now she’s giving him all fake affection. But the more Tian Er is nice to him, the more Chuan Zi is nicer to her. The fake affection will gradually be mixed with real feeling, and as a lifetime passes even the false becomes true. But during this process it’s not without risk. Tian Er is gambling with her heart and if Chuan Zi dared to discard her then one of them is going to end up dead.”