Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 AH :

Great observation! I hadn't noticed that parallel before. It seems even more obvious when taking XY's words in chapter 35 into account, as well as her thoughts in chapter 38.

 AH :

Chapter 35:

She stared at Xiang Liu and the man before her was that dissolute wastrel, but the moment she was about to become torn again, a strand of white hair fell that reminded her exactly who he was. Xiao Yao softly stroked his hair and said, “This place is not safe to stay. Pay your respects and hurry off!”

 AH :

Xiao Yao wanted to warn Xiang Liu to be careful and leave as soon as possible but now she couldn’t say those words so remained silent.

Thank you so much for reminding me of the subsequent two scenes where Xiao Yao remains fearful for Xiang Liu's safety. Chapter 35 is arguably one of my favourite scenes with Xiao Yao tenderly touching his hair, and being reminded of the danger to him, staying as long as he had, and the kiss to her forehead he gave her. Then I am reminded of how this scene is butchered in the leaked script, and I feel the onset of a headache of Xiao Yao-in-denial epic proportions.

It is ironic though that for all her fears, Cang Xuan never had any reason to believe Xiang Liu and Fangfeng Bei were one and the same until the very end. Do you remember whether Cang Xuan ever knew what Xiang Liu really looked like? I don't believe he ever did, else he would have put two and two together, since he was acquainted with Fangfeng Bei.

 H19279:

I am searching for that. I saw it several times on facebook, One scene focused on Jing (he was sitting by a table and FFB with XY could be seen in the opposite corner. And there was one scene of TJC pretended as if he was chopping something with very big knife. TCJ wore the same purple outfit in those two clips and the setting was in the donkey meat seller

I think I know which one you are referring to. I can't find the BTS on Youtube (do share if you find it!) but this is what I can see on Weibo, and my guess which scenes they belong to:

Ep22 - When Fangfeng Bei first brought Xiao Yao to try the best grilled meat in Xiyan City

Ep11 - During Xiang Liu's visit to the Lirong donkey meat seller to ask about the lovers bug

Ep27 - When Fangfeng Bei forgot to bring money - there were meat skewers on the table in that scene

 AH :

To me, this interpretation seems both illogical and directly contradicted by XY's thoughts (and words and actions) in the novel. 

I understand how someone might see this interpretation as illogical given their theories of novel, but this interpretation logically fits with my theories. I don't think XY's words and "thoughts" should be interpreted at face value. Tong Hua intentionally leaves a lot of blank space/omits a lot of information in XY's thoughts. Add to that the fact that XY often says/thinks things that are meant to deceive herself or at least remind herself of the mask that she must put on for the world to see.

To me, XY's words and "thoughts" contradict her actions in this scene. XY is not an illogical person and she verbally acknowledges that this could be a trap. As clever as she is, she must have known that this was a trap because there would be no reason for Jing to demand that she not tell anyone where she was going. Anyhow, she did tell Miao Pu where she was going, directly disobeying the directions in the message. She also took precautions to tell Miao Pu to hide and wait for her instead of coming with her to the ship, which wouldn't be necessary if she didn't realize this was a trap. 

Jing had been missing for about a month, so the chances of him being alive were slim to nonexistent. She knew that the East Sea was like XL's home, so her primary purpose in going there was to see Xiang Liu because she desperately missed him. Otherwise, why would XY let Miao Pu know about the rescue, but not CX, who could enlist proper help in successfully rescuing Jing? The reason she didn't tell CX was because she wanted to see XL. She knew that XL would save her if her life were in danger because their lives were linked. The text also hints that XY was in a daze thinking about XL before she thought about Miao Pu and decided to save herself:

小夭只能继续躺在水晶棺里发呆。
Xiao Yao could only continue to lie in the crystal coffin in a daze.

-- Vol 3 Ch 10 (Chapter 43)

There is other evidence that points to XY going to the East Sea to look for Xiang Liu. For instance, the title of the chapter, "Thinking of My Dearest Daily to No Avail,"  is derived from a poem that describes a situation similar to the one between XY and XL. This isn't to say that XY doesn't miss Jing and grieve for him, but her reason for going to the East Sea and knowingly walking into an obvious trap was to see Xiang Liu. I also wrote about three parallel story arcs in LYF that support the interpretation that she went to the East Sea to see Xiang Liu:

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=3030323&page=563#p3030323

 blabla100:

"When the coffin sinks, there are clearly several instances where XY expects to die (i.e., she doesn't expect XL to show up and save her) unless she does something to save herself. At first she is okay with dying, but after she thinks of the consequences that Miao Piu would face she tries to save herself. "

I personally don't believe she tries to get out of there because of Miao Pu, more like making use of Miao Pu's situation as to give herself an excuse to fight back. She would have saved herself anyway, because she wanted to live, if not, than I guess Miao Pu was really more important to her than Jing. She uses Miao Pu twice, once for "saving" herself and not dying for Jing and the second time when she tells XL that she is willing to do ANY deal with him as long as he helps her finding her. What deal did she hope for, I wonder. 

I agree that Miao Pu wasn't the primary reason for XY wanting to save herself. She was in a daze thinking about XL before thinking about Miao Pu. It's also possible that XL had communicated with her using their PLB connection or that she could sense he was near through the PLB connection. This is where interpreting her "thoughts" at face value would lead the reader to overlook the omission of her thinking about XL.

By the way, I wonder who XY was thinking of when she said her vows to the moon. Given TH/XY's tendency to interleave thoughts about different people together, I wouldn't be surprised if she bowed to the moon and declared, "From tonight on, I am your wife!" to Xiang Liu. Otherwise, why would she beg XL to stay, desperately cling to him, and coax him into being intimate with her right after he saved her from the vortex? Her telling him, “If you want to eat me then eat me!” and “You’re the one who is scared,” hint to him that she's not afraid of taking the intimacy further.

The deal that she hoped for was obviously for XL to take her away :-)

 liddi:

I think I know which one you are referring to. I can't find the BTS on Youtube (do share if you find it!) but this is what I can see on Weibo, and my guess which scenes they belong to:

Ep22 - When Fangfeng Bei first brought Xiao Yao to try the best grilled meat in Xiyan City

Ep11 - During Xiang Liu's visit to the Lirong donkey meat seller to ask about the lovers bug

Ep27 - When Fangfeng Bei forgot to bring money - there were meat skewers on the table in that scene

Hi Liddi,

Here is FFB's outfit in that scene. I still can't find those clip but found the outfit in the photo section of LYF-S2 in MDL

Oh, it was posted by @Kokuto,

@Kokuto, do you have the clip related to this photo?

I found this one too

Update: Finally I found the first clip with Jing in one corner and Xiao Yao &FFB in other side (at ~ 12s of the clip). You can see the Lirong veteran passby Dang Wei later

长相思第二季10-13集预告：夭璟终于快要和好了！夭璟党等疯了！！_哔哩哔哩_bilibili 

 solarlunareclipse:

桐华tonghua: 长相思没有, 这个故事里的人都经历了很多事, 都活得很剔透。不过别的故事里, 好像有。
Tong Hua: Not in "Lost You Forever." The characters in this story have all been through a lot and are very clever. However, it seems like this exists in other stories.

According to Tong Hua, all the characters in "Lost You Forever," including Xiao Yao, are clever and logical.

Do you have another quote where Tong Hua says all the characters are logical?  Cause clever does not mean logical.

 solarlunareclipse:

If we perceive some of her actions as stupid, illogical, or exasperating, it's likely because we didn't understand the motivations behind those actions. Xiao Yao doesn't act impulsively; she carefully considers the impacts on all parties before taking action. If it seems like Xiao Yao overlooked an important consideration, it's because Tong Hua intentionally didn't write about Xiao Yao's thoughts, not because Xiao Yao didn't consider it.

I think most of us understand XY's motivation, since she repeatedly told everyone, and it's clear she's motivated by past trauma.  But understanding what motivates someone's actions doesn't mean that character's actions are logical, smart, or not exasperating.  It just means we may understand why they did it.

I also disagree that XY considers the impact of her actions on others, much less carefully.

@AH and @Blabla100,

I still remember the discussion last year about the topic of 1 month in QS town and the metaphor of the window closing scene. Actually, I was about to write my interpretation of XY's behavior during that time. I found it was very difficult to understand her real thought during that time. Then came Blabla100's post about the window closing scene and I find it many common thought with mine. Therefore, I skipped writing my own interpretation. Hereby I would like to share my feedback with @solarlunareclipse as well as add my own thought  about that scene that I skipped last time. 

 solarlunareclipse:

The three times that Xiao Yao opened the window while staying with Xiang Liu in Qing Shui Town after the marriage robbery represent the times she took the initiative to try to be with Xiang Liu, hoping he would accept her plea and take her away. The first time Xiao Yao opened the window was when she sent Xiang Liu the crystal globe and waited for him by Dragon Bone Prison for seven days, hoping he would come and tell her, “Beneath your feet is the sea,” as he had done so many years ago. This time, she was ready to jump into the sea to be with him, leaving her family, friends, and royal identity behind. Xiang Liu closed the window by not responding to her confession, destroying her reputation by forcing her to run away with him on her wedding day, and killing off his Fang Feng Bei identity.

I agree with all of you that we can see the dynamic of the relationship between XY-XL and XY-Jing through the two scenes of window closing. In the earlier scene, XL was the person who had the upper-hand, determination factor in the relationship while XY played that role in her relationship with Jing. 

One thing I would like to emphasize that before XL closed the window, XY had played with the snow falling outside the window. It was early winter and XY with low spiritual power could not stand the coldness outdoor. Thus she could not lie on the chair in the back yard, sunbathing anymore. She sat on a couch and played with the first snow. 

It was now early Winter and the temperature was dropping. Xiang Liu still wore a simple all-white robe and often did work in the courtyard. Xiao Yao had weak powers and couldn’t stay in the courtyard anymore so she often wrapped herself in a blanket and sat by the window.

Xiang Liu would often stare at Xiao Yao for a long long time. Xiao Yao sometimes couldn’t sense it and when she did sense it she didn’t mind and let him continue to stare at her.

When the first snowflakes fell, it was the first snow of the Winter. Xiao Yao reached out her hand but the snowflakes were too wispy and melted the moment it touched her palm.

Xiang Liu walked into the room and closed the window for her.

Xiao Yao opened it. Xiang Liu closed it again.

Xiao Yao opened it again. Xiang Liu closed it again.

Xiao Yao went to open it again but Xiang Liu used his power and Xiao Yao couldn’t open it at all.

Even since she left Chi Sui Castle, Xiao Yao had been calm but now she couldn’t endure it any longer and punched the window violently before glaring at Xiang Liu.

Xiang Liu coolly said “What kind of person I am, you’ve known all along. Since you dared to make a deal with the devil, you ought to have the courage to accept the consequences.”

Xiao Yao was taken aback because Xiang Liu was absolutely correct. Their deal was completely fair. Even if she could do it over and knowing the consequences of today, to protect Zhuan Xu she would still choose to move the voodoo bug into Xiang Liu. It had simply been too long since Xiang Liu asked her to fulfill her end of the bargain. She had also seen Fang Feng Bei as real, so their relationship was covered by this tender sweet layer like a gauzy veil. Xiao Yao simply forgot that their relationship was always just a transaction, so no matter what he chose to ask of her, she had no right to be angry.

(Vol 2 chapter 15 or Chapter 32)

 So, in my view, the window represents  for the romantic relationship or hope for relationship between them (XY to XL or XY to Jing). The snow flake outside the window represents for Xiang Liu. In the same chapter (chapter 32), Tong Hua had compared XL with snow 3 times: 

His hair was back to being all white and fell behind him like a waterfall. The tree behind him had red leaves and the brightness contrasted so that he looked even more ethereal like untouched snow.

.....

Xiao Yao stared at Xiang Liu and her eyes were blinded in pain by his whiteness like a cloud and like the snow. 

.....

Xiang Liu quietly stared at Xiao Yao, his face was like a ten thousand year old snow mountain, cold and inscrutable.

(Vol 2 - Chapter 15; or Chapter 32)

Although XY was devastrated of FFB's death, cutting off her hope for having and keeping XL in the mortal world and a reasonable future with him, she still calmly stayed in QS town. She still hoped to be with XL and waited for his ultimate decision. The image of XY sitting by the window (but inside the house), streching her arm out and playing with the snow flake sent her message to XL that she wanted to involve with him. It was obvious to XL since he sat in the court yard and frequently looked at her. 

I also agreed with @solarlunareclipse that she tried to send that message or take initiative 3 times but not the same event as you. 

1. She sent the ice-crystal globe and waited for him 7 days by the coast near Dragon Bone Prison. He did not show up

2. She followed him, running away from her wedding with FL. In front of the publics and all noble families of the Wildness, XY run away with FFB. Her reputation was ruined. However, being known as following the playboy FFB was still better than running away with XL. She still had/kept a tiny hope of a future with FFB or not openly standing opposite to CX. Again, XL killed FFB. Her best scenerio with him dashed.  

3. After XL killed FFB, she still remained in Qing Shui town and tried to play with the snow. She still wanted to be with him - as XL but he closed the door using spiritual power and she could not open it again. This is also the foreshadow for no more attempt of romantic relationship between them. XL cut off her last hope/attempt and XY knew she lost the man she loved forever. XY had thought that XL's marriage robery was his ruthless, late answer for her ice-crytal globe bid instead of claiming her blood oath. He kept her there for 1 month already. But when he closed the window 3 times and she could not open it anymore, she understood his message. Both of them did not say any words but understood each other. "Even since she left Chi Sui Castle, Xiao Yao had been calm but now she couldn’t endure it any longer and punched the window violently before glaring at Xiang Liu.". Thus that is why XL reminded her about the transaction. He did it because he regarded it as repayment for her debt. It was business. 

I am not convinced by the theory that XY used suicide (Chapter 47) or stop fighting for her life (chapter 43) as the way to draw XL's attention and hope to keep him with her. 

 Kokuto:

Haha!  Seeing these pics all together like this it becomes clear that Tan Jian Ci enjoyed cooking the food he was going to be eating.  Or at least playing with the food and grill.  lol

Yes! Think he was grilling for those in the team too? And apparently in the same BTS, Yang Zi thought the meat skewer was delicious. But it certainly looks mouth-watering!

 Kokuto:

Do you have another quote where Tong Hua says all the characters are logical?  Cause clever does not mean logical.

You're right that clever doesn't mean logical. Actually, "剔透" actually doesn't mean clever either. According to ChatGPT, it can mean:

• Insightful: Can describe a person who is perceptive, insightful, and able to see things clearly and deeply.

I updated my translation to use the word insightful instead of "clever and logical". However, in my view, someone who is insightful probably wouldn't be considered stupid or illogical.

 Kokuto:

But understanding what motivates someone's actions doesn't mean that character's actions are logical, smart, or not exasperating.  It just means we may understand why they did it.

The reader asked if TH was completely exasperated by a certain character's stubbornness or ideas. She replied, "Not in LYF. The characters in this story have all been through a lot and are very insightful." Taking both the question and the answer into account, I interpret TH's response to mean she doesn't believe any of her characters are exasperating or needlessly stubborn. She also respects the insightfulness/perceptiveness of her characters. You're right that insightful/perceptive doesn't exactly mean "logical" or "smart". However, it doesn't make sense to me to describe someone as "insightful but illogical," "insightful but stupid" makes even less sense. Moreover, I am personally exasperated by illogical or stupid characters. Maybe I'm projecting, but I would think TH would be too--so her implying that she isn't exasperated by her characters would also seem to imply that the characters are not illogical or stupid.

 Kokuto:

I think most of us understand XY's motivation, since she repeatedly told everyone, and it's clear she's motivated by past trauma.

I've also seen the TH quote that says XY's choices are motivated by her psychological deficiencies due to her past trauma, so I won't argue that this doesn't play a role. The fact that she goes to the extreme to avoid thinking about some issues is a result of those psychological deficiencies. The fact that she easily retreats after she feels she has been rejected also stem from those deficiencies. In my opinion, someone can have psychological deficiencies AND be insightful.

 Kokuto:

I also disagree that XY considers the impact of her actions on others, much less carefully.

I would have a hard time labeling someone as perceptive or insightful if they didn't carefully consider the impact of their actions on others and only thought of themselves. 

Perhaps you were referring to my original mistranslation of "剔透" to mean "clever." I agree that you can be both clever and not care about the impact of your actions on others.