Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

It's quite ironic that just yesterday, I was telling @windiaa041293 that I don't bother with the YaoJing threads as people will believe what they want to believe, when lo and behold, this happened.

@littleloverboytsj 

Have you read the novel in its original Chinese text? Did you read both the 2013 version and the 2019 revised edition? Do you understand the nuances of the original text, or is your understanding based on translations? If you actually read through all of our posts here, you will know that nuances can get lost in translation, or sometimes get wrongly translated. You will also know that the official description of Vol 1 of the 2019 revised edition says this:

小夭遇到了叶十七，也遇到了相柳和玱玹，属于他们的故事正是拉开了序幕，但一切都只是草蛇灰线，绵延千里。我们肉眼可见的真的是一切的真相？
 Xiao Yao met Ye Shiqi, as well as Xiang Liu and Cang Xuan.  The curtain to their story was raised, but everything was only "snakes on the grass, lines on dust" **, stretching out for thousands of miles. Is what we perceive with the naked eye really the whole truth?

** 草蛇灰线 "Snakes on the grass, lines on dust" is a common technical term used in reviews of ancient literature. It is a metaphor for vague clues and signs that are provided. The "snakes on the grass, lines on dust" is a method used in the plot structure of novels. Its metaphorical meaning is like snakes in the grass, or lines on top of dust, which appear to be unconnected but are connected, corresponding to each other. It skillfully manoeuvres the subtle relationship between characters and plots in the prose, often providing hints using undercurrents and elusiveness which are not easily discerned. 

In other words, there are nuances and hidden lines that are not as immediately apparent in the novel.

Even as YaoLiu fans, all of us have our own interpretations, and may not necessarily agree with everyone else's opinions on this thread, but that is the beauty of a discussion forum - to be able to discuss, present our opinions without resorting to maligning anyone that does not agree with us.

If you are interested to have a genuine, civil discussion about your interpretations, backed with your evidence, you are very welcome to join in. If your only purpose is to come in with a lot of aggression and sweeping name calling simply because our interpretations differ from yours, then do remember that this is a thread dedicated to Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao. Move on. You would be far happier spending time with like-minded people rather than conducting yourself this way.

 nathsketch:

"YaoJing's Happy Ending Whatever Blah Blah Blah Visual Monstrosity of Scrapbooking Nightmare"

What do you mean by "Visual Monstrosity of Scrapbooking Nightmare"? All I found were classy, highbrow works of art on that thread. The weirdly cropped, pixelated images are meant to serve as social commentary on the flawed and subjective nature of modern beauty standards. These collages of Jing overlaid in purple & green "Barney the Dinosaur" themed colors and tasteful word art were especially thought-provoking. Now I'm questioning your taste （◕‿◢）

@windiaaa041293 Thanks for sharing the comic!

@liddi Thanks for translating the comic!

 plor20:

11 hours ago
 AH :
Ironically, littleloverboytsj  asked a question in that thread about references in the text that we covered in this thread last fall in much greater detail (and with supporting text references) than the response she got in that thread.
Out of pure idiocy, I was curious as to what this discussion was about but was unable to find it. Lmao.

She asked about XY comparing TSJ to the moon in the novel. 

 littleloverboytsj:

Hi I am new to this thread.

There's one question that's been bugging me. Has Xiao Yao in the novel ever compared Jing to the Moon? Or this is something that is added in the drama only?

thanks for answering!

 nathsketch:

There are no responses to be gotten in that thread. She claimed we are deluding ourselves here, meanwhile, they're discussing the sun symbolism, the Statue of Liberty in New York, or how Jing is comparable to whatever they feel like on any given day.

She did get responses. They were just a bit less comprehensive and a bit more scattered than this thread.

Symbolika1 correctly cited the scene in chapter 10 where XY compares TSJ to the moon.

 Symbolika1:

Hello ! Yes there are direct quotes in the novel that complete the drama's Xiao Yao statement " Tushan Jing is like the bright moon..." One can be found  in chapter 10:

TH  Chinese  text below

十七凝视着小六，说道：“人不能选择自己的出身，纵然不愿，也只能接受。”

小六对十七苦笑，“你，很复杂，我，很复杂，十五年后，究竟会怎么样呢？”

十七微微而笑，笑容明净温暖，“心若如明月，诸般变化都如浮云遮月，再纷扰晦暗，最终都会浮云散、明月出。”

小六笑指着自己的心，半真半假地说：“奈何妾心如墨染，若君心有明月，望君能常使明月向妾心。”

Quote :Shi Qi looked at Xiao Liu “A person cannot choose their birth, even if we are unwilling, we must accept it.” Shi Qi smiled warmly, a clear and gentle smile “If a heart is like a clean moon, even in the darkened clouds it will pass and the moon will return.” Xiao Liu pointed to her heart and asked half in jest half serious “But if the lady’s heart is tainted, then will my lord’s heart be clear like the moon and shine it on the lady’s heart.”  

Winny  also referenced that scene.

 Winny:

Well, i guess not that direct but so far the lines in chapter 10 when she asked or rather told Shiqi to be the moon that shines on her

And Symbolika1 correctly noted that the first reference to the moon in the novel occurs in a scene with XY and TSJ in chapter 1. 

 Symbolika1:

The first one to occur is in...chapter 1  as Jing meet Xiao Yao as Yeshiqi and Xiao Liu=>

叫花子一声未发，小六抬头看着天，上弦月，冷幽幽地挂在天边，如同老天的一抹讥讽世人的嘲笑。

半晌后，小六伸手抱起叫花子，是个男人，骨架子不小，可骨瘦如柴，轻飘飘的，一点不见沉。

The beggar said nothing, Xiao Liu  looked up at the sky, a waxing moon hanging coldly by the edge of the sky, like a sneer from the heavens mocking humanity. After a while, Xiao Liu   reached out and picked up the beggar, who was a man, with a large frame but as thin as a rail, light as a feather, showing no signs of weight.

Along with a bunch of extra visuals and a link to a separate YaoJing thread with some of their analysis of the chapter 10 scene.

peng-peng  and Symbolika1 also correctly noted that there are references to the moon in the scene where XY sings to TSJ in chapter 20 and a subsequent scene in that chapter where TSJ plays the song for XY on his zither.

 peng-peng:

Here as well Chapter 20 

And peng-peng correctly noted that when XY held her one-person wedding to TSJ after his disappearance, she made her wedding vows to the moon, but didn't mention that that scene takes place at the end of chapter 42 and the beginning of chapter 43.

 peng-peng:

XIAO Yao Wedding vow under the moon

 peng-peng:

I have already put on my

wedding dress and bowed to

the moon. From tonight on, I

will be your wife!"

After I made my comment in this thread about us covering this point (references to TSJ and the moon) in more detail in this thread than in the YaoJing thread, there were some additional comments in the YaoJing thread.

Winny  and Symbolika1 mentioned references from chapter 43.

 Winny:

And then in chapter 43, she is always longing to se Jing in the next full moon night (she never really believe or let die him die from her,)

 Symbolika1:

Extract from ch. 43

And Symbolika1 provided a bunch of analysis about how she thought the moon symbolism in chapter 10 and chapter 43 should be interpreted. 

Setting the subjective analysis aside, the examples they gave weren't wrong, just a bit less comprehensive and a bit more scattered. We covered several references that they didn't cover (most notably references in chapter 8 and chapter 49) in this thread.

For example: https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2854435&page=323#p2854435

 AH :

Chapter 8:

Gao Xing was a nation of eternal Spring so their clothing was thin and loose, the fashion was airy and light. Right now Shi Qi was wearing a blue Gao Xing robe with wide sleeves and a simple belt, a crown encircling his hair. As he walked it was like he was walking on clouds, like he was the embodiment of the blue moon, his moves like the waves: fluid.

The two maids stared and Xiao Liu couldn’t look away either. Shi Qi appeared taken back and slightly lowered his eyes but he liked Xiao Liu staring at him like this so he kept his eyes locked on hers as he walked over.

Xiao Liu teased, “No wonder a girl learned dance for ten years to try and seduce you. After you go back, there won’t be a lack of women throwing themselves at you.”

 AH :

Chapter 49:

Xiao Yao burrowed into Jing’s arms as her tears fell, “Jing, Jing, you’re finally back!”

Jing comforted her “Don’t cry…..don’t cry…..”

Xiao Yao started crying even louder and pummeled his chest. “I kept waiting for you! I kept waiting for you and didn’t believe you died. Every full moon I thought you’d come back, but you never did! I waited so long and thought you wouldn’t come back……..I thought you really abandoned me…..I hate you, hate you…..”

Jing let Xiao Yao hit and yell at him while repeating, “I know you suffered a lot and I didn’t keep my promise. I’m sorry! I’m sorry!”

Xiao Yao nestled in Jing’s arms and kept on crying.

...

Zhuan Xu turned around and the moment he saw Xiao Yao he also saw the young man beside her, standing straight and composed.

Jing bowed respectfully. “Your Majesty.” After he straightened, he took Xiao Yao’s hand again and one white, one blue, they were like the moon and the forest, always beside each other.

But the craziest part? The comment from this thread that I linked above with text showing references from 10 different chapters of the novel? That was page 323 of this thread. littleloverboytsj ignored (or somehow managed to miss) that comment, but referenced windiaaa041293's comment from the top of the very next page (324) when she commented in the YaoJing thread. 

 littleloverboytsj:

XL fans are claiming that "The moon belonged to XY and XL at the beginning but XY wants to change it to associate the moon with Jing later on."

 windiaaa041293:

Initially, the moon belonged to xy and XL.
But xy wants to change it to xy and Jing, by holding a wedding under the full moon. Even though xy describes Jing like the moon, she still thinks about XL.

Because the reason is Xy tries to rewrite the meaning of the moon for herself, and forgets all the memories with XL.

 blabla100:

I don't recall exactly, I believe it has been discussed before, but did Jing has ever been directly tied to the full moon? I know about his promise of marrying XY in the next full moon and about XY waiting for him every full moon, but that's not exactly the same with them actually getting to experience the full moon, as XY and XL did, if it makes sense. 

About the Jingers, I belive the main reason why they are so pissed is because that în the back of their minds they are somehow aware that their story doesn't add up. 

Jing missed the full moon. He disappeared before the full moon. in chapter 43 when XY looked at the moon and sang, it was 17th day of the month. 

this is my post about judging the moon with context in reply the moon discussion in November last year:

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2854475&page=323#p2854475

@AH,

When CX looked at Jing and XY walking to the mountain, he saw them like a moon next to a bamboo (it is not forest like Kaola translation). Jing is like a bamboo and the moon reflected XY (not Jing)

@H19279

"Jing missed the full moon. He disappeared before the full moon. in chapter 43 when XY looked at the moon and sang, it was 17th day of the month."

 Was it the 17th day of the month? I haven't checked in a while, but I thought în chapter 43 she yet again got to experience the full moon with XL, after he saved her from the whirlpool. The day after, when she sang that song to Jing the moon has already started to decrease,  I believe leftear mentioned that it's almost round or something similar.

 The moon is definetely a motif în lyf  and all the guys have been tied to it one way or another, but as mentioned, the only ones who actually got to experience the full one was XY and XL. Jing's moon never went pass the almost full, iirc. 

@AH

I kinda view it differently, even though I understand what you mean. The full moon was Jing's and XY's goal for sure, but they never got to the point of actually achieving it, at least not as far as the novel goes. In fact I believe TH is clearly sending us a message by trying to connect Jing and XY to the full moon and failling every time. 

 blabla100:

@AH

I kinda view it differently, even though I understand what you mean. The full moon was Jing's and XY's goal for sure, but they never got to the point of actually achieving it, at least not as far as the novel goes. In fact I believe TH is clearly sending us a message by trying to connect Jing and XY to the full moon and failling every time. 

I am still compliling all the moon references and so far, right after XL passed, XY went back to associating XL with the moon.

"Xiaoyao thought of the moon in Qingshui Town. When Xiang Liu died, was the moon in the sky shining on him quietly like this? Did he remember the moon they had seen together?" - Book 3 chapter 50

So for me, the moon waxing and changing, but it would still remain bright was always XL. XY tried so hard to rewrite the stars.

 AH :

Yes, TSJ is clearly the "one blue" (the colour of his robes was clearly mentioned when he returned) and XY is the "one white", (the colour of her outfit in the ceremony where she nearly became the next Royal Mother was also clearly mentioned) so TSJ is the bamboo forest and XY is the moon in this similie. Although TSJ is not the one who is the moon in the similie, the moon is still clearly incorporated into a YaoJing similie.

I don't know if this is the case in Mandarin, but in English "forest" can refer to a bamboo forest, reather than a forest of trees. That being the case, perhaps Koala's choice to use "forest" is not necessarily incorrect.

Actually that's not correct. When Jing arrived to stop the ceremony, he was dressed in green, not blue. And the description is of 绿竹 green bamboo, not a forest 林 or bamboo forest 竹林:

青衣人从白鹤上跃下，站在了祭台前，他好似久病初愈，脸色泛白，身材瘦削，可五官隽秀，神情自若，风流天成。落英缤纷中，他恭敬地对王母行礼：“青丘涂山璟，来接晚辈的未婚妻，已听侍女说过玉山正在举行王母继位仪式，不接待外客，本该依礼等候，但晚辈事出有因，不得不硬闯，还请王母海涵。”
The man in green vaulted off the back of the crane and stood in front of the altar. He appeared to have just recovered from a long illness, his face pale and his body thin. However, his features were handsome and refined, his expression calm,  with a naturally suave air. Amidst the falling petals, he bowed respectfully to the Royal Mother. "Tushan Jing of Qing Qiu, has come to fetch my fiancée. The maids informed that the Royal Mother succession ceremony is underway at Jade Mountain, and no guests will be entertained. According to etiquette, I should have waited, but I have my reasons and had no choice but to force my way in. I hope Royal Mother would be magnanimous and forgive."

****************

璟对颛顼行揖礼：“见过陛下。”起身时，他握住了小夭的手，一白一青两道身影，犹如皓月绿竹，相依相伴。
Jing bowed to Cang Xuan. "Your Majesty." After he straightened, he took Xiao Yao's hand in his. The two figures, one white one green, were like the bright moon and green bamboo, relying on and accompanying each other. 

-- Vol 3 Ch16  (Chapter 49)