Episode 5 feedback from an autistic

This is very long.

Before the review, let's talk about the 3 elephants in the room.

1. "No two autistics are the same"

This needs to be reiterated: no two autistics are the same. You, your sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, or some other random person you saw in a mall or a park, may do things and act a certain way and they are autistic but it does not mean all other autistics are the same. Not because someone do things or act similarly to someone you know who is autistic does it mean they are not autistic.

The "autism spectrum" is called a "spectrum" for that reason. Many autistics, like myself, do not exactly agree with the word "spectrum" because many think of it as a line from Point A to Point B; which leads to "severity" classifications like "least", "mild", and "severe". Autism is not two-dimensional, it is not three-dimensional, it is four-dimensional.

Think of a 10-band equalizer. The bands are the various autistic traits and quirks. The basic bands (located usually in the center) are the "common" autistic traits and quirks. All autistics share it. While the other bands are the uncommon traits and quirks, confirmed as autistic but rarely observed (or there is not much study done on it yet).

Each band in the equalizer can be adjusted up or down. Autistic traits and quirks are similar, in that, in some autistics a particular trait is profound or more observable while in other autistics that same trait is less obvious almost assumed by other people as non-existent.

Autism is like that. It is not a "spectrum" as most understood "spectrum" is. There is no "slight autism", "mild autism", or "severe autism". It is not two-dimensional. "Oh, Attorney Woo Young Woo has mild autism" but if you ask other people they will say, "Young Woo has severe autism". You can not define or classify an autistic that way, it won't work, and Woo Young Woo is a good example even though she's a fictional character (and it does not mean there is no real life person like her). These labels are used for the sake of discussion and diagnoses, especially for parents. Understanding comes first before acceptance.


2. Who or what does Attorney Woo Young Woo represents?

The second elephant in the room, "Is Attorney Woo Young Woo a good representation of autistics?" Some say "yes" while some "no". Both are valid and here are the reasons why.

2.a: Yes, Woo Young Woo is a good representation of the "Autism Spectrum Condition" ("ASC") or "ASD" if you prefer the word "disorder". She is not representing any particular autistic but the condition itself.

2.b: Not exactly, because autistic women do have different challenges than autistic men. Autistic men and women do share common traits and quirks (as explained earlier) but there are traits and quirks __and challenges__ that autistic women have and/or faces daily [more] than autistic men. Autistic women masks far more than autistic men, this is but one reason I have seen expressed by other autistic women (check SNS and boards). But do not dismiss her because …

2.c: Yes, she is representing the entire community of autistics. The story is about how someone with a condition is living in a world not made for them, how autistics are treated. It is about the discrimination, prejudices, and stigma. It is not about how one particular autistic is living. You will understand this if you've watched shows like "Adam" and "A Brilliant Mind" (a.k.a. "X + Y"). These two Western films were about an autistic person instead of the entire community. We need to remember this otherwise we will miss the messages "Extraordinary Attorney Woo" is telling us.

So, again, this is about the challenges, discrimination, prejudices, and stigma; it is not about a specific person.

BONUS: If we are going to insist on "perfect representation", since "no two autistics are the same" then we have to create 77,530,000 characters based on the estimate that 1% of the global population is in the autism spectrum. "Perfect representation" of autistics is not the same as representating people who are brown and black, or representating our friends in the LGBT+ community.


3. Self-diagnosis

Now, let's get into the biggest elephant: self-diagnosis. One English site covering Korean dramas has reported that people who have watched Extraordinary Attorney Woo are starting to post in SNS and boards how they are starting to think and feel they may or might be in the spectrum. This sparked a heated discussion wherein some people accused them of "jumping to the bandwagon", "because it's cool", or "they start to think they are experts". The same discussion got heated in English communities, though a little bit subdued (at least on the thread I was following).

The ironic thing about this, at least on that one thread I was monitoring, those who are autistics are defending those self-diagnosing while those who does not understand autism at all are the ones attacking and dismissing them.

Here's the thing. If you join autistic SNS groups or watch online, or even join a meet-up in your local autistic organisation, there are diagnosed autistics who started in self-diagnosis. There are many reasons like (1) they want to see first if there is a high possibility because getting a diagnosis is expensive in their country; (2) their family/clan will be pissed-off, they run the risk of being disowned; (3) autism is not known when they were kids; (4) no one suspected them, they got curious one day, and was convinced to get an official diagnosis (since they're adults already and maybe they don't exactly need support, it won't make a difference if the diagnosis is negative or positive).

Should we invalidate those doing self-diagnosis? What if it turns out to be correct? How about those who are simply jumping to the bandwagon because they think it is cool? Let them be. If they're in it because it's the trend, they will disappear sooner or later. How can we be sure they are simply jumping in to the bandwagon? And even then, if undiagnosed autistics see how people are invalidating them, they too will be afraid to continue learning about autism.

Do we generally care in the autistic community? I can not speak for the community but from what I've seen, from what I've read, it's not a big deal. What the community is concerned most are organisations who are only in it for the money or whatever other agenda they have. These organisations (not all, let's be clear on that) are the ones hurting us the most.

As autistics, we understand what it means to be an autistic. The hardships and challenges. Autism is easier to diagnose when a person is still a kid. Adults? We already learned how to mask. We appear "normal" to you but we don't process things, we don't experience things, the same way as you do. So who are we to invalidate an autistic who self-diagnosed? Or those posting in SNS and boards that there are autistic traits and quirks resonating with them when they watched Extraordinary Attorney Woo?

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Now, let's talk about episode 05.

1. joining the "joke" but no one laughed
  - Scene: first meeting with the client

Well … been there. But I think many, if not all, have been in that situation even neurotypicals, probably more often with introverts in particular. This is not an autistic quirk per se but it just happens far more frequently with autistics than neurotypicals/introverts. And if you paid attention, Young Woo was observing them and trying to find a moment to join them and when she did …

2. Court scene #1:

2.a: Young Woo spotted the differences quickly.

- Is it possible Young Woo spotted the differences that fast? Yes.
- Is it possible Young Woo spotted the little differences? Yes.

We are not talking about "spot-the-difference", this is about spotting the little things. An example, since I develop sites, if there is something I want to center, it bothers me a lot if it is. I can still see an object is not "centered", if it is off by a pixel or two it is not(!) centered at all! I hate that. Eventually, I found a way to "fool" myself so I no longer waste time trying to achieve true center. (note: 'perfectionism' is under OCD which is common in autistics)

I used to be good at spot-the-difference games too but I'm not as fast as Young Woo in this episode; and being good at it is not an autistic-only skill. Hence I said it is about spotting the little things.

2.b: Started arguing only to realized there's a flaw in her argument.

After she spotted the little differences, she stood up and started her argument only to pause later because she realized the flaw and salvage the situation.

I can't speak for other autistics on this one but it generally happens when we get 'excited', we react faster than our internal analysation. It is common for autistics to play different scenarios and branches in our mind but when we get 'excited' the risk of missing a scenario increases, like what happened to Attorney Woo. If she did not get excited at that moment, I have no doubt she would have seen in her mind her argument is not fool proof.


3. Attorney Woo Young Woo: Looking straight into the other person's eyes is the most difficult thing in the world for someone with autism.

YEAH! I was waiting for them to address this. Finally! However, it is important to remember (1) the degree this is affecting an autistic; and (2) how to cope with it.

One way of coping it, and I think I talked about this before, is to "look between their eyebrows" (as her friend suggested) or the bridge of the nose. We appear looking at you in the eyes but we are not.

There are different reasons why this is the most difficult thing for autistics, some reasons are (a) it's like opening your soul to the other people; the other way of that is (b) autistics 'feel' it is rude to look into the soul of another person; (c) it is painful; or (d) no reason at all, it's just is hard.

Now, since this episode is about "detecting lies", it's important to note that detecting lies through the eyes will not work with autistics. Good luck. No matter how hard we try to look directly into your eyes, we will break contact. For some it is easier if one is wearing eyeglasses or sunglasses, for some it still won't make a difference (regardless if both of them are wearing sunglasses). It depends but yeah, we all struggle with it.

Here's one way I can cope with it: I try to find the colour of your eyes. That distracts me though, so there is a chance I'll miss what in the world you were saying. Another method I use is watching your iris grow or shrink, again, it distracts me because I'm focusing on something else. Much better if I just look elsewhere and listen, that way I can "hear" you.


4. Attorney Kwon used the word "handicap" and even claimed that he has no choice but to shoulder certain things. Even related it "volunteer work".

Yeah, definitely insulting and common. This is not about being "politically correct", it is about the inaccuracy of that word, and how it is usually used. Even parents who accepted their child's autism would not be happy if you use that word.


5. They talked about signs of lying.

Careful when using these "signs" on autistics. More likely than not it won't work, you'll just get the wrong assessment.


6. Woo Young Woo: "People with autism are easily fooled and are not able to lie."

I'm not sure if the translation was correct but the part "are not able to lie" is not exactly true. Autistics are capable of lying, the difference is we hate it far more than neurotypicals so we avoid it at all costs. We just hate it.

Here's an example: if we agreed on a certain time and you told me "I'm already here, I'll be arriving in 10 minutes"; and then you sent another similar message, I know you're lying and if I fail to control myself, I'll make a big fuss about it. Especially true if I know the route you're taking and the road situation.

What makes it worse is you're late. We also hate lates. Again, we are capable of being late but we avoid it. This should give you a clue, if you know someone is autistic and they're regularly late, find out the reason instead of punishing them. A good example of this is episode 5 when Young Woo was not able to explain what "[bank] cassettes" are. It is not related to being late per se rather the reason behind it when you know an autistic wouldn't make that mistake. In Young Woo's case, it's unusual for her not to be able to answer that question considering her performance … it should've been a sign something was wrong.

So yeah, neurotypicals, if you know or suspect someone is autistic, try to find the reason first. Actually, it doesn't only apply to autistics, it applies to everyone. If you know a person wouldn't do certain things, say being late or failing an exam, find out why first before reprimanding or punishing them.


6.a: "I have to make a conscious effort at all times to not be fooled by lies."

Definitely true. We explain it this way: we have a checklist of things in our mind. And Young Woo explained it this way (paraphrasing) "I keep forgetting it". The list is just so long, and we also have yet another list for other social stuff, that yeah, we forget some things and it is also draining us.


6.b: "These stories help." "They help me understand you."

Why I'm sharing. If it won't help me anymore, at least those autistic kids will benefit from it, maybe when they get older there will be less discrimination, prejudice, and stigma because we shared our own stories.

And this is why I see "Extraordinary Attorney Woo" as an autism advocacy, as a story about autistics (as a representation) in a world not made for them instead of any particular autistic (representation).

7. Asking the first question that bothered her with no brakes.

It bothered her if Joon Ho likes her so the first question she asked in that scene was that … no brakes!

Yeah, that's us. But it's something that we can learn not to do.

8. Young Woo repeating the information about how to detect lies through movements while walking.

This is true as well. Not every autistic do it similarly, reciting it to oneself, it can happen silently in our minds.

9. Young Woo finding it very hard to go with the lie.

Scenes: In the office of the client and at court.

As I've mentioned earlier, we are capable of lying--especially if there is an acceptable logic behind it--but we hate it and avoid it at all costs. In Young Woo's case, she found an acceptable reason, she wanted to win the case but she was never okay with it. Unfortunately, in this particular case, the acceptable reason she found was her being used only. Her client understood her and knew how he can get her to side with him--like faking his accident and setting up an actor [who we don't even know if is really his employee]--which I think Young Woo also realised.

This is the other 'danger' or 'disadvantage' of disclosing our condition. If someone understands how a mind of an autistic works, they can use it against us.

10. Young Woo being honest about what she thinks of her friend.

Ahh this. Autistics are commonly misunderstood on this one. People think we don't have emotions, empathy, sympathy, are self-centered, and so on. But as I've explained time and again, we process and express things differently.

This scene at the cafeteria is one good example of it. Her college friend and colleague never thought of Young Woo other than a classmate and a colleague, she was even annoyed at her at times. She probably assumed Young Woo did not appreciate her helping her (defending her from bullies; opening bottle caps, etc.)

This is where autistics shine. We DO pay attention and remember, and we hold dear those good things about a person especially if it was to help us or help others. We don't say it. You usually will not see us express it. But once we do express it, once you ask us about it, you'll hear it in a way no other people in your life has ever expressed something to you. In Young Woo's case, her very descriptive metaphors and she even expounded it very beautifully.

Trust me. We DO pay attention and we remember.

Again, I do not speak for the autistic community. I am only trying to explain things, mainly coming from my own experience, and the experience of other autistics who shared their stories and complaints.

No two autistics are the same; and autism is four-dimensional.

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A good read. Thank you for this!

im glad you had the same reaction to the cafeteria scene as i did! it really stuck with me, it was such a caring thing for young woo to do, and it was shown that her seeing it and saying it like she did was BECAUSE of her autism, not in spite of it. It really highlighted a very caring side of autistic people that doesnt always get shown in media. we often get people being caring towards the one with autism, but here young woo was allowed to be the kind and caring person as the one with autism. 

Agree with the comments above. This was a very informative read, thank you so much for sharing!

Thank you for your detailed explanation! In fact I don't know anything about autism and have only seen the very extreme cases portrayed in most media. So I was hesitant to watch this show as I was worried they chose this topic just to make another stereotypical quirky character. But now I see it - like you  explained - as trying to show  the  challenges for and prejudice against autistic people in society and advocating for people to listen and learn. 

Thanks, really very informative and helpful <3

Here is a good thread re: self-diagnosis + why many are choosing not to disclose or get a diagnosis

https://twitter.com/chaoticgaythey/status/1552655274313273346?s=20&t=TKXLLSGq05vK-4DnwNb3cw